Opinion: How True is the 'Dudes Who Shred' vs 'YouTubers' Meme?
The meme that's been making the rounds.
Words: James Smurthwaite
Throughout Silly Season I've been spending a lot of time on social media trying to spot new sponsors for riders and maybe some new bikes too... but that's not all I've seen. One meme that has been doing the rounds and simply refuses to die is the above image pitting 'YouTubers' and 'Dudes who actually shred' against each other.
The implication is that the bike industry is ignoring the best riders out there and instead spending all its money sponsoring riders who simply have a large following on the video-sharing site and no riding ability. I've seen it shared by both sizeable YouTubers and, more frequently, by talented riders with a chip on their shoulders. Oh, and definitely some local dude-bros.
I’ll be the first to admit that a lot of what happens on YouTube is pretty lame. It's understandable when some experienced riders roll their eyes at those ‘Epic Backcountry Rides’ or videos about how ‘sick’ the bike park is, or being told how to bunny hop for the 40th time, but clearly there’s an audience that cares. Those channels can rack up millions of views a month. But, is this new generation of content creators hoarding all the sponsorship money at the expense of fast riders? Well, it's time to wade into the mire of shit slinging too...
The Premise is Flawed
For a start, this is a bit of a false comparison. Some of the most talented riders on the planet have got their start on YouTube and continue to use it as their main outlet such as Danny MacAskill, Fabio Wibmer and Tomomi Nishikubo. Outside the trials world, former pros have also turned to Youtube to continue their careers such as 2013 FMB overall winner Sam Pilgrim, 2015 Rampage Best Trick Winner Sam Reynolds and slopestyle legend Cam McCaul. The boundaries are more blurred than ever between the two categories as even current racers and freeriders such as Bernard Kerr, Rachel Atherton, Danny Hart, and Finn Iles have begun to put more effort into their YouTube channels too.
Of course, this meme probably isn't targeting the YouTubers I've mentioned above but the like-and-subscribe-ring-the-bell-all-caps-wheelie-tutorial-glowing-thumbnail-I-just-hit-my-first-double-and-you-won't-believe-what-happened brigade. There's definitely a drop-off when it comes to the riding ability of YouTubers and the majority of mountain bike videos, even from some of the bigger creators, on the site are nowhere near the levels of the riders listed above but to say it's all Joeys on there is definitely hyperbolic.
Sam Reynolds - A dude who shreds... and also a YouTuber
Brands Spend a Lot on Sponsored Riders Beyond Just Their Salaries
Secondly, there's no small amount of money going to sponsored riders, both men and women, who aren't on Youtube. To put it simply, racing and competition ain't cheap. Sure, only the cream of the crop riders earn a large wage but bike companies support lots of "B" riders as well as the teams they ride for too. The flights, hotels, bikes, mechanics, team trucks and everything else that goes into a sports marketing program is a sizeable investment for a bike brand. Add on top of that all the freeriders, brand ambassadors and legacy riders who also get a slice of the pie and there are plenty of people out there getting paid to ride without a YouTube channel.
Money might be moving around these days, but it's hardly that brands aren't spending a lot on talented riders.
The Reality is More Complex than the Meme Suggests
I don't need to tell you that bike companies don't sponsor anyone just because they're fast, it's because they help to sell bikes. Previously, racing and competing was one of the best ways to do this as it got blanket coverage in all the magazines, produced content for advertising and was a way to show the speed of your bikes against the competition. Another way to do it was through photos, films or videos where, again, the fastest riders profited as they usually looked the best.
In 2021 however, there are so many other ways to get your bikes in front of potential customers. Social media, along with cheaper and more available cameras, means that anyone can create content and share it with the world. It's no longer the fastest riders that carry the most capital but those who can get the most engagement.
Content creation featured in two of the Pinkbike Academy challenges this year because it's becoming more important than ever for mountain bike athletes.
Racers have maybe 10 or 15 opportunities a year to show their pace against the competition but for YouTubers, every new video is a chance to show off the product they're paid to promote. Even if they only produce one video a week, that's significantly more than a racer can hope to compete with.
On top of that, the value of a race result (especially a mid-pack one) is hard to calculate, but the analytical tools that the internet provides can very easily tell a marketing manager exactly how many eyeballs a YouTuber has reached. Each impression has a cash value attached to it and the marketing dollars spent on an influencer much easier to justify. The proof here is in the pudding with racers now pumping out riding content on their Instagram profiles or YouTube channels to bolster what they can offer to sponsors.
The Pandemic is Accelerating Current Trends
But YouTube is 15 years old now, so why has this meme become so popular this winter? Well, as with most things at the moment, the COVID-19 pandemic has probably had something to do with it. A changing global situation has left brands re-thinking where they spend their money. If you've sold out of bikes and you're on a waiting list to get your next batch of frames, that product/sports marketing budget is going to be one of the first things on the chopping block.
It's still unclear exactly what racing is going to happen this year and with racing falling under the marketing banner, racers are likely to be one of the first victims of these cuts. I know that some entire racing programs are being disbanded for 2021 and others are definitely shrinking the number of riders they support.
As Matt Wragg alluded to in his predictions article, the way that sponsored athletes to interact with brands will have to change over the course of the next 12 months too. If a racer can't provide a return to their sponsor through a strong race result, they are going to have to think of other ways to show that they are worth the money that is spent on them. Don't be surprised for them to turn to social media, especially a YouTube channel, to be one of those ways. They will have to be savvy about it though as we've also seen some prominent YouTubers have their sponsorships reduced this year too as the market starts to get saturated.
Wyn Masters is way ahead of the competition when it comes to mixing a strong media presence with race pace.
The pandemic has also introduced a new wave of riders to the sport. Mountain biking offers the ability to exercise alone or in a family bubble, to escape the home office and it offers great mental health benefits. These new riders aren't going to be hunting down content from riders sending 100-foot gaps or smashing bike park berms. Instead, they'll be looking for content that opens their eyes to the variety of trails they can ride, coaches them through the confusing world of trail etiquette, encourages them to progress their skills and tells them which products they should upgrade their new bikes with. It's far less intimidating for these riders to see someone talking through the ups and downs of a ride on their local trails compared to a shreddit full of hucking and shralping. Being a shredder could potentially make you less relatable to potential buyers and therefore less valuable to a potential sponsor. (On that note, I suspect several "beginner" channels are downplaying their skills on the bike to be more relatable. Gross.)
It's Mostly Jealousy
The popularity of this meme probably tells us one thing, the balance is shifting and some riders are being left behind. It's adapt or die time for riders and those who don't embrace the added reach of social media are likely to be the ones that are on the wrong side of that bargain. If all you offer to a brand is the ability to ride a bike fast and you can't back it up with anything on social media, there aren't many ticks in your column when budget meetings come around.
Of course, all of this has been happening for years but it has been seriously accelerated by the fallout from COVID-19. This probably means some 'Dudes (or women) who shred' are looking pretty enviously at those YouTubers while they have struggled to find as much support this year. But ironically, a salty meme probably isn't the kind of social media content their sponsors will be looking for...
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And there's lots of good content on both sides. Remy and Yoann are certainly my first go to but the content from people like vancan and Dale stone are awesome.
Therea also just as many pro MOUNTAIN BIKERS (happy now) who's online content is just meh. Presenting is a unique skill and not everyone can be as good as Sarah Moore.
Posing is a good thing! That is what Cover Girl model do, they pose and then they make a lot of money from it. I myself think we as individuals, or a company, should sponsor any and all that can help us sell our products.
I am sure Seth Bike Hacks help sells way more bicycle products than any Professional Racer does. At this point though, I do NOT know if I can even trust Seth Bike Hacks anymore for an honest review as that channel is heavily sponsored, it is really no different than a Big "Magazine". Can any of us really trust these "Big Dogs" for honesty? They are going to say what their sponsors tell them to say and NOT what they truly feel.
My favorite Youtubers the small time guys that post stuff that helps me fix my bike. To me "how to repair and maintenance" videos are the best videos, and most of these vids seem to be from small time guys that do not have monetized channels. These guys tend to have channels with NO Flash, only SUBSTANCE, and that works out great for me, because I only want substance and I do NOT care for flash.
Other really skilled riders just want to ride their bikes, with their friends, and have a good time without feeling the need to f*ckin document everything on the internet. That should be okay.
In what world is that not okay? Just don't expect to make a living off it.
Even if some dude bro is a super shredder, nobody wants to listen to some dumb douchebag who hates everything.
Some of the fantastic riders just makes lousy videos. Tippie for (bad) example. I love the guy, love his riding and boarding and I really have a huge amount of respect for everything he's done over the years, but his videos are mostly just mediocre.
Claudio and Barelli makes videos that are not much better but they are always fun to watch and I enjoy them every single time.
Maybe that's why they are successful on YT.
Personally, my favourite channel is "owlaps". French guy who doesn't try to entertain and just rides. Because of him I already visited so many great riding places.
if you’re so good, start your own YouTube channel and prove all these “posers” wrong. Put your money where your mouth is.
Or continue complaining here about why everyone else sucks and how everyone else is a loser and how everyone else is crazy... everyone except you, right?
it may sound like sour grapes but life is bigger than the internet, the world is starting to exist in this parallel to real life and I think it's devaluing everything.
The world has gone money made, and there has to be business sense in what people do, but the supply of "talent" is way above watered down, superficial demands.
Music downloads did the same to dance music. When I used to play I bought Vinyl or cd's. That investment in producing the hardware was pretty good at screening out the crap. Now anyone can just post stuff up its dreadful, so much modern dance music really does sound the same, right down to the samples actually BEING the same as it's all come from the same programmes.
if you've got this far well done, I realise what an immense rant this has turned into, and I could go on.
But I won't.
Maybe I've just got old......????
They work at it. They fail ALOT. They’re evaluating their value constantly. They discover new demands and trends. They command an audience.
Meanwhile the trolls pontificate on message boards and judge them for doing what they love. I say ignore the haters and keep working at whatever channel you guys are creating! You’ll be getting views while we argue about your well deserved success.
Meanwhile, pro's who actually work at improving their skills riding bikes get respect from others who work at increasing their skills riding bikes.
It's the follower count driven lifestyle blogger options that aren't actually contributing much to the community that aren't great, and practically I feel like the biggest thing is the opportunity cost for up and coming riders who can't tap into that support and would have to choose between the diminishing returns of enhancing their skillset or learning the multifaceted skillset of content production instead of spending time riding in order to keep up.
"All the above things should be bare minimums before ever even considering approaching companies about sponsorship. The real thing you need to ask yourself is "AM I MARKETABLE?" Basically, will a company be able to use me to make money?"
www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/796123/Everything-You-Need-To-Know-About-Getting-Your-First-Sponsor
Not a lot of people care about going fast or winning Racers, nor do they care what Pro DHers think of them. Unless you yourself are regularly Racing in the UCI DH World Cup Championships, you too are also just a POSER. You are posing to be a fast guy! BTW: There is nothing wrong with being a poser. I myself buy nice gear because I like to Pose also. However, unlike most posers, I am one HANDSOME MO FO! DON'T HATE! and do you need a Hug? I can give you one if it will make you feel better.
Sure there are certainly a couple (I can only think of one) YouTubers that are actually good riders.
At the end of the day it is competition that breeds the best.
www.hookit.com/ranks
Back in the days before YouTube there were lots of riders who didn't compete in anything and their focus was on media creation as well. Guys like Thomas Vanderham, The Godfather Wade Simmons etc. Sure these guys competed in early Rampage but their sponsors were paying them for video parts and print ads at the time because that was the landscape of media. No different from Free skiing, Motocross and Skateboarding etc. Was a guy like Richie Schley who learned how to look really good in photos and videos better than guys who were faster at the time? Probably not but that wasn't the point.
Reminds me of music these days (said like an aging hipster). The doors of media production have blown open and the power dynamics have shifted. With it, there is some truly awful music coming out. Sorry fans of face tats and dudes mumbling over downloaded tracks with "lil" in their names but I'm not on board with your preferences. As a recent SNL skit poked fun at, these turds are getting hundreds of millions of streams. So my opinion on what makes good music is clearly different than a value system looking at influence.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Either way it makes for good discussion. While I really like Seth, there is a whole other demographic of click baiters out there...the "WATCH ME ALMOST DIE ON THE HARDEST TRAIL IN THE WORLD!" and then the video is of them making noises whilst going down a modest rock face or some crap like that. I'm hoping over time those making meaningful content will rise, we will better understand this new landscape, and those just exploiting our culture will disappear.
Back when everyone used to race, the senior riders kept this bullshit is check. Now anyone who rocks up at trails with a camera thinks they're king shit without putting in the work and perfecting their skills. Ride. Practice. Be humble. If you're good, then let other people make that assessment and take pics/photos.
If you do NOT like someone's channel then just do NOT watch it. SIMPLE!
I myself stopped watching all Mtn Bike Youtubers on a regular basis, and this also includes Bike Magazine and Pinkbike Youtube Channels. I do still read the the Pinkbike and the Vital articles on a semi-regular basis though if the subject interests me. I especially LOVE the Pinkbike comment sections. I myself think all Youtubers can provide useful input in one way or another. Anyone should speak his mind regardless of how fast they are. For the most part, I find that "joe blows" information to be useful than "joe pro's" information. As for "Posers", you might want to look in the mirror! We are all posers in one way or another. We are NOT factory racers but yet we dress up and set up our bikes as if we were one. Even "Real Racers" are posers in some aspects of their life. I would trust a Stranger Youtuber over a Factory Racers. The stranger youtuber paid for his own V10 and he can be honest if he hates his bike. A factory racer can NEVER criticize the bike. If you hear the Pro Racer's excuses after a bad race, it is always the same. They never blame the bike they will say something like "we could not dial in the suspension"... what they really want to say is "this bike absolutely sucks for this course!!!!", HAHAHAHA
Hands down... watching Graham Agassiz, James Doerfling, and Andreu Lacondeguy over the last decade or more were inspirational to me, and would make me excited to go ride and try more stuff. Their riding styles are insane, and the stuff they do is totally insane. In a general year though, what do they actually do? They're not racers, they're not pumping out youtubes, maybe Rampage? if it happens or they aren't hurt? Maybe 1 or 2 movie segments that are shot with amazing technique or location? I still love them and jump on anything I see their name on to watch right away. Who are they selling bikes to/for though? A guy you hear from once a year isn't pumping sales volume. On that level, I'll watch anything Brandon Semenuk puts out because he's unlike anyone else on earth and its awe inspiring to watch. Those are all people you'd say are all pros and top in their given craft for the stuff I'm most into. None are racers. Brandon and James don't even compete at ANYTHING any more. James could be an IT Help Desk Tech for all I know, I have no idea what that dude does, but who cares?
Take another tier... Wyn and Fairclough are pros. they're definitely better than 99% of everyone here. They're not champions though. Are they selling you something because its the best and they're the best? No. But they're super personable and entertaining to watch AND have skills that back them up, and its still mega exposure for their brands. I subscribe to them because I'm entertained and I like them as people. Take a dude like Mark Matthews. I couldn't tell you the last thing he's done that has a competition or ranking. I have no idea, but I love his FB and YT content. The trails he rides are amazing and he's fast as f*ck.
Remy and Yoann are another tier... where they have pro level skills, but again, they're personable, and you can get something from how they dissect and breakdown riding, and how they show various trails and give exposure to riding different places. Whether either competes ever again in anything is irrelevant. You're getting exposure to somebody with beyond level riding, but who's content brings them down to what could be just 2 dudes having a conversation on a hillside and it works. Ben Cathro fits into here as well. You're getting high level technical analysis that's interesting, from a regular ass dude for all intents and purposes, who you know is skillful, but has no qualms about not being a Top 10 pro DH racer.
Then take the last tier of what I still think is great content. Dudes that are clearly better than me, but not pros and not major video production heroes... Skills With Phil, Mahalo My Dude, 50 to 01 TV, Jordan Boostmaster, etc... AGAIN, these dudes are all personable, you get something from their content. Phil with his quirky shit. He's literally building a trail for content from scratch, and showing it to you, showing how you can test it out, he explains techniques, he shows a large variety of trails and riding. Of those 4, Jordan is probably the MOST of a regular ass dude (riding wise), and still, he hits decently sized shit (stuff bigger than I'm willing to try) and rides with an advanced pace. Also again though, you get something from their content. Exposure to new zones or trails, exposure to lines and advice, a sense of a lot of what riding is about... having fun, being out in the woods, hanging with your buddies, conquering new features, etc... they bring that to the average rider guy's level where it seems obtainable and relatable. They come across as funny and/or kind people. None of these dudes mentioned seem self aggrandizing, or lazy, or shitty at riding. I'm sure there out there, but I think you're short selling the content, and definitely are short selling its impact to the larger riding community.
You've actually demonstrated why it's important to put money and effort intro supporting the best riders who ride against the clock. The clock doesn't have biases. The best products rise to the top. Over time pro riders looking for peak performance weed out products that aren't good, or perfect products that need to change.
Squiddly McDadface with his camera, youtube channel and flow-trail add nothing to the progression of the sport, and supports a circle of self-fulfilling crapness where, bike companies regurgitate whatever trend captures attention of people who don't actually know what they're doing.
world wide cyclery is a great start to learn about products, but they are most definitely not the final word for when it comes what to buy. The only one is that has the final word on what you need, is YOU. This means it is good to listen to as much input as possible, and even better to ask questions on facebook or pinkbike. I base most of my purchases off all of these hundreds of comments. For example, I thought about getting a 2018 Commencal Furious, but thanks to some of the Commenters on Pinkbike, I found out the reach for the 2018 to be too short and the rear end too flexy, as well as many cracked head-tubes.... then when I looked up a 2020 Commencal Furious on the Commencal's website, I see that Commencal braced the rear end, and gussetted the heat tube for their 2020 Furious! LOL, so these "complainers" about the 2018 Commencal Furious were all spot on! I ended up just plunking down the extra dough to get a 2021 Furious.
The Bias is NOT completely 100% both ways. We both know a Sponsored Rider will NEVER talk down on his bike. We also know that he will always says "this year's model is much better than last year's".
I myself, have no problems admitting that a bike is way over priced and set up wrong by the Factory, because I have done it many times. I put in an order for a 2021 V10, and you can bet I will be honest and let you know if it sucks.
Supporting the best riders only works at the UCI World Championship level, and even then it does NOT really work. Santa Cruz's Enduro Team are a bunch of "Losers" (relative Losers), but yet SC has no problems selling out all their Enduro bikes in 2020.
Most Fast Riders also have no idea how a bike even works, yeah they may know how to ride fast, and they do provide good feedback for the suspension tuners, but they have no idea about Bicycle Geometry or Innovation.
The Industry has progressed even MORE with thanks to these "slower" Youtubers! So Maybe it is you that have everything backwards?
Slow Riders tend to listen to slow riders, and when we are all starting out, we are all slow. Keep in mind, slow riders like Dentists and Engineers tend to be the ones that make money, and have no problems paying $10k for a bicycle
The only thing Mountain Bike Businesses care about is selling THEIR Products. If a slow ugly rider is helping to sell products, and if he he makes a lot of money doing it, then all is good for all sides! and you should be happy that this "slow and ugly rider" is making money by doing what he loves.
Let us all be honest, Fast Guys do NOT really help sell products (at least the fast guys outside of the UCI Championship do NOT). Fast Guys do NOT really progress the Industry either. In addition, these Fast Guys do NOT even really buy their own stuff, they just want everything for free! HAHAHAHAHA.
...I've skipped work for a few hours to ride, so I've been paid to mountain bike. I guess that makes me a pro?
Point I'm making is the top 1% of true "pros" are, I'm sure, still going to get paid (I doubt Loic Bruni is going to take a huge paycut due to increased YouTube sponsorships) but the dude who is admittedly very good at sending it at his local trail system is not, which has always been the case.
My question is - anyone racing on the pro circuit in any of the disciplines - if you are a mid- to bottom-of-the-pack racer/freestyle sender, are you still going to be paid? If the answer is no, then I think a further look into this phenomenon is worth it
I just watch a lot of dudes (and ladies) from a lot of disciplines work really hard trying to make a legit career out of riding bikes. Spending hours and hours training, grinding to learn tricks, pushing their bodies to the limits, progressing their riding to insane levels, only to watch them lose, or struggle to get, sponsor support. I just hate seeing the sport go from rewarding talent and hard work to rewarding how much can you stand in front of the camera doing redundant shit on a daily basis.
For every glorious Atherton Ridgeline video, there's 10 showing pros going down the same granite steep near the north shore. Then you have the 'shreddy' videos from the pros who'd be doing damage to my local trails-cannot and don't want to relate. You can only watch so many slopestyle videos.
It's probably incorrect to think of these videos as 'sponsoring' and more correct to think of them as 'product placement'. Sponsorship is a different animal altogether, more cut throat, and probably with less impact on sales- but you have to do it if you want to be in the big leagues of bikes.
*****
"I just watch a lot of dudes (and ladies) from a lot of disciplines work really hard trying to make a legit career out of riding bikes. Spending hours and hours training, grinding to learn tricks, pushing their bodies to the limits, progressing their riding to insane levels, only to watch them lose, or struggle to get, sponsor support. I just hate seeing the sport go from rewarding talent and hard work to rewarding how much can you stand in front of the camera doing redundant shit on a daily basis."
*****
I see you are still jealous.
and what do these guys deserve? It is NOT my nor anyone's job to support their training. If they do NOT know how to generate sponsorship, that is their problem, not ours. "Work Smart, NOT hard". To me they are working WRONG if they expect to get money from all that "wrong work".
Next thing you know you are going to hate on Harley Riders because they don't take their Softtail Deluxe to the racetrack or the Ducati Monster Riders for being "Posers" for riding on Sunday carving the canyons. Please discuss...
***
"I don't know that Seth really does reviews on anything other than small side products. He's been on diamondbacks for years and it's not like I ever see him reviewing bikes. He reviews things like tool sets, gummy bear holders, and amazon cheap plastic pedals."
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I would not know what he does anymore. I stopped watching him about 3 years ago due to him being too political (in my eyes). When I first got back into Mtn Biking in 2015, he was a great help! in all aspects of Mtn Biking.
And Harley posers are fn WACK. Love the guys who dress up in their full leather and spiked wrist bands for their weekend ride up the Kanc. Bahaha. You're one of those aren't you?
Just because I think that they’re detrimental doesn’t mean that I’m jealous of them. I don’t want to get free shit from any company, and I surely don’t want to be modern social media whore.
But while you’re at, bunny hop onto that subscribe button and like this video.
I am a different breed. I am NO Hater, and I appreciate all and am happy if anyone can make money doing what he loves, I even appreciate all the slow and ugly youtubers that makes a lot of money. I am really happy for them that they found a niche in life. You though, seem jealous of them?
I am an am an ex motorcycle road racer that wins trophies! I also use to MX often; however, I do love how you lump me in with Harley Riders even though I have never even rode one ever. I guess you do this to make yourself feel better about yourself? Please discuss...
I think it might be you that is living in "Reality TV". To me these Youtubers are living their real life, doing what they love, and making money at it.
You might say in direct words "I am not jealous of them", however, 90% of your other words says "I call them posers because I hate that they can make a living off youtube being slow and ugly, I AM SO JELOUS". Please discuss...
Nail ===> head.
This is spot on. Also why, despite having worked as a guide and instructor in the past, and for several years now in bike shops, I still have yet to post a single one of my ride videos to the interwebs. I'll talk to the gopro as I'm riding, point things out for the hypothetical viewer, come home, review trim, watch, then throw in the trash can because I really don't have anything special to say.
Internet gold ^^^^^
I don’t care about how people make their money. I do see that they’re mostly fake as shit, and are following the reality tv script like so many influencers.
***
"I don’t care about how people make their money. I do see that they’re mostly fake as shit, and are following the reality tv script like so many influencers."
***
By your words, it is obviously you do care how they make their money! and how are they "fake"? To me they are posting their slow rides and talking about mountain bikes, and they have a following of fellow riders that support their channels. To me that is REAL and NOT fake. Maybe it is you that is fake? Please discuss..
Is everyone who dislikes Trump jealous of him?
The bike industry is tough, really tough. If your not the best in the world, the reality check for these young shredders is to diversify. If your not the top 1%, your not getting a free ride and you'll need to make up that support in another way and you'll probably be better off for it. As after your pro bike career is over, your gonna need to find another talent to stay in the bike industry anyway. So, this is just a thought... but maybe it's better that these riders don't just get a free ride and then kicked to the curb with no other skills to sustain themselves afterward?
...if you get curious- his main thing for the last couple years has been trailbuilding. But he broke his ankle pretty badly-maybe permanently impaired so he hasn't been riding and is helping his community build a bike park.
Which, when you think about it, may be more worthy of getting fat stacks of youtube cash than bermslapping.
"no, I don’t care about their money. It means nothing. Whoring yourself out for peanuts is nothing to be jealous of."
I think some of them are making more than just "peanuts", and besides what is wrong with being a "Whore"? We are all whores in one way or another. Are you putting whores down now? I myself think whoring is a great way to make a living, especially if we get to choose our customers! Please discuss...
LOL f*ckin come off it. 8-10 years ago Red Bull was paying Rampage winners like $5k and a hat, and nothing to anyone else. Cost that much just to get your ass and your friends there and you're literally risking your life. More than any other MTB discipline hands down. Where was the incentive? The incentive was bros being wild liking wild shit... if Freeride needed money to incentivize, there'd be no freeride. Yet here we are. It garnished you sponsorships then, and it still does now. Dudes were making videos on their own dime to try and get in then, and they still are now.
If Biking with Bimbo sells bikes, that bimbo deserves some marketing funds. If Mr. No Personality Ripper that makes 1 super polished video a year and otherwise has no internet presence demands a salary because he can do a back flip off a 40 ft. gap, he deserves a lot of credit for being rad, and maybe no money for not doing anything at all for the company he wants to represent.
I've been racing cars for 22 years, and in all that time plus all the history I know, I can literally think of a single company that was in the business of selling cars JUST to go racing because they loved racing so much, and that was Ferrari. Nobody else, at all, throws money/salaries at people for "progression" because they like neat videos. I'm sure there might be a bike company out there somewhere that just wants to be rad so they want rad representation and don't technically care about the return on their investment of a sponsored rider... YT? Evil? Knolly? none of those? I have no idea, but MOST people want to make money with a business, and if they're spending money on you, they want to see some sort of revenue uptick from your efforts and exposure. Its really that simple. Enjoy pouting I guess. I'll keep enjoying regular dudes show me trails I've never been to who are better than me so maybe I'll go visit sometime. The world will still turn, the sun will still come up tomorrow.
**
"Oh, I get it. You can be a fake poser and get paid to sell bikes to squids. The point you're not getting, along with 30 people here is it's f*cking wack"
**
1) Does NOT a Fake Poser mean the same thing as "NOT a Poser"?
2) Anyone you want to call out as a "Poser" specifically?
3) what makes them more of a Poser than you or I?
4) Is NOT the goal of all companies is to sell Bikes, be it to squids or octopus?
5) What is so E'ffn Whack about all this?
Please discuss...
1) Semantics
2) Paul the Punter
3) Riding ability
4) I ain't buying shit from a wack ass company
5) If you don't know, then you're as wack as they are
1) fair enough!
2) OK, this guy is annoying. However, that is just me, is voice is annoying and he has a man bun! hahahah. However, I am happy for him that he has so many followers and making money from this. His bikes are nice.
3) fair enough! I too am a squid when it comes to DH. No trophies yet :-( . However, I do think I can provide some useful info.
4) neither should any of us. Does he pushes product from whack ass companies?
5) I maybe whack, but I know enough. I think I have some pretty nice bikes.
honest question: where does all this envy and anger come from? If these innocent discussions rile you up this much I think you might be taking it a bit too seriously. Relax a bit dude
Who knows where it comes from. I think he has a right to be jealous and hateful of the success of others. Hating is a natural human tendency.
OMGWTF 30 people didn’t agree with me!?!?!? Arghhh!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
What the hell are you even watching? f*cking Stewie Griffin going to high school over here... "its lame. everything's lame. I wear short sleeve shirts under long sleeve shirts under short sleeve shirts." f*ckin clown shoes bro, grow up. Besides trails being a bit more crowded this year, what's wrong with more regular ass people getting into mountain biking? You don't want non-locals surfing your swell, War Child?
Give me 5 examples of people that are terrible with a decently large following and then tell me what you think they're getting paid by a bicycle(s) company? Or prove it. Show us the money that's "not being given to a ripper." I wanna see how much you think companies are paying people with 300-400k subscribers and videos that get like 100k views. Cause average YT ad revenue is like $3k per 1 million views. Soooo... you think some dude making $300 twice a month with videos is rolling in the loot? You think he's on payroll at a major bike company or Red Bull or Monster? Tell me exactly what is being lost here with hard numbers.
do not worry about chriskneeland. He is just a HATER! he is a typical Sheep that Hates on others for their success.
There's really only one thing I hate, schmucks on youtube.
As pointed out above, if you can prove to me that the people who are actually legit shredders/pros who have a following are NOT being paid and their funding is being diverted to YT noobs, then I'll give it to you. But... I think we all need to do some self reflection here - just because I wear a hawaiian shirt and throw sick whips on the jump line at Mountain Creek does NOT guarantee me a paycheck from money, because a LOT of people can do it, too. Just like any "activity/sport" that people enjoy doing, only a small percentage of players are going to get paid because they either 1. Grow the brand image or 2. increase the market share. YT dudes w/ views = increased brand awareness and market share.
As is always the case, the top 1% in these sports will be paid, either thru competition wins or through sponsorship. As for the remaining 99%, either get better or get on YouTube, ya noodles!
-PGA Championship 11th place $250,000
-UCI World Championship 11th place $0
You mad at the wrong people.
And the slopestyle thing is interesting - idk, personally I'd rather watch Skills with Phil because it's more relevant to me than slopestyle. Like, I just can't get into it - it almost feels like a different sport because the skillset is SO different than typical trail or DH riding. Idk if I'm the minority there, but I do feel like companies see slopestyle as a discipline w/ poor ROI since it's less relatable to the majority of their clientele.
You are OK in my book! You are just being upfront and honest that some of these Tubers rub you the wrong way... and this is OK! we do NOT have to be a fan of everything. However, it sounds like you are really bothered by them for them being them and living their own lives. I am going to give you a Hug to make you feel better. HUGGGZZZZ!
"I just watch a lot of dudes (and ladies) from a lot of disciplines work really hard trying to make a legit career out of riding bikes. Spending hours and hours training, grinding to learn tricks, pushing their bodies to the limits, progressing their riding to insane levels, only to watch them lose, or struggle to get, sponsor support. I just hate seeing the sport go from rewarding talent and hard work to rewarding how much can you stand in front of the camera doing redundant shit on a daily basis."
Don't write off youtubers as a bunch of slackers. It's actually a shit ton of work to produce that much content. Now, I'm not necessarily a fan of most of the youtuber video content. Frankly, I find most of them quite boring, and repetitive. I do, however, respect the amount of work it takes to make all those videos. I was a part of a youtubers video, and we spent 3ish hours filming, and he spent hours over days editing the video. Some of those youtubers are taking it upon themselves to better their riding, and doing it under the pressure of a video that could be seen by lots of people. I know a lot of people who would not feel comfortable posting their failures on the internet.
Just because they aren't the top racer, or making a living purely off of riding skill, doesn't mean they are posers. It means they are passionate about the sport, and are finding ways to make a living off of what they love. Good for them for finding ways to get paid and ride. Who are we to tell them they are posers. I don't see you, or the majority of people complaining about youtubers making any strides to make riding into a career. It's honestly rad that mountain biking has reached a point where there are more jobs than just "winning races". It's bringing out a lot more creativity within the industry, and the more content out there, the better. Now you can watch a UCI World Cup, then a sick Raw100 Semenuk edit, a behind the scenes daily life of a redbull rider like Matt Jones, or some average rider who is taking the steps to learn to jump better and sharing that knowledge with the masses, and showing that it is ok to crash and try again.
Stop hating man, it doesn't affect you, or any one else. If you don't like it, don't watch it. and certainly don't hate on people for living their own life.
That's literally what it says is going to happen in the article.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
To make original content regularly (weekly in my case) is probably more work than you’d expect if you’ve never tried.
My schedule changes depending on what’s going on but to get a video out on a Friday I have to be thinking and planning at least from Monday, firstly there needs to be an idea... sometimes it’s obvious (there may be an event happening) but sometimes it can be a struggle to come up with an idea that’s not been done to death. I have a list of ideas but often it’s out of my control whether I can do them or not (usually weather).
Once an idea is formed I need to figure out how to make it a reality... what camera(s) will I need, where do I need to travel to, do I need any special kit etc. I also need to check the weather to see if it’s going to rain on certain days.
Once I figure things out I need to make sure my kit is all working, charged, got SD cards and any back-ups. Is my bike fully working etc, then I pack it up... for my mtb content I’d be using a GoPro Hero 4, a Karma gimbal, extension cable, a Tascam Dr 10L audio recorder and a backpack to carry it in, that’s three electronic items I need to make sure are charged and ready to go plus maybe an extra camera if I need extra shots. For trials riding I use a Canon M6 withstand tripod and GoPro Hero 9.
On maybe a Tuesday or weds (earlier in the week is better) I go and film, sometimes it goes smoothly sometimes not (and in worst cases it’s a total failure and I have to abandon it and start thinking of an alternative).
My main content is trials riding and I usually film alone as it can be a really tedious for someone to stand there while I try the same trick for the 100th time. I do genuinely enjoy filming, more so if I have an exciting idea or if it’s in a new place but sometimes it can be a chore, especially if I’d rather be just riding with friends and not filming (sometimes I will film with friends but I definitely compromise my riding as to not ruin the ride for others).
Mtb filming is different, I usually do that with people but I’m conscious too not ruin the flow for them, this usually means no stopping to chat or get B-roll shots. My videos are pretty raw!
Once filming is done it’s time to edit, I usually take a day to edit a medium complex video, I’m no computer pro so simple is the name of the game but once I’m filming on multiple cameras with separate audio that all needs matching up it can become a bit more complicated... my more complex edits with added voiceovers can take a couple of days to edit.
I’m not just editing one video either, I have a Patreon page and they get their own cut of the video, then there’s a YouTube version, then a highlights video, then an Instagram teaser and any single clips I may want to use in the future. I then have to make a thumbnail which hopefully I thought about when filming and got a specific photo/shot of or possibly I forgot to do that and I have to find a clear, exciting screenshot that tells the story of the video.
Once the edits are done I get to the uploads (two, one for Patreon one for YouTube) and I write the description, add all the SEO tags and wording I need and schedule it. I also upload the teaser video and clips to my Dropbox and then download to my phone.
Often this is Thursday night or Friday morning, I get a few hours to rest until the YouTube video drops.
Once it it’s time for my video to go out I upload my teaser video to social media and link my channel, I then have my dinner. After dinner I’ll start answering some comments.
On Saturday I’ll usually have a hundred comments to answer (takes about an hour) but once that’s done I try to have the weekend to go riding (or filming) and a see if I can answer more comments here and there. I try to have Sunday free of any work.
There’s other little bits that go into it, like answering DMs and emails, dealing with sponsors etc but in the end, it’s a 6 day a week job with comments, DMs and emails coming in 24-7.
I’ve been doing this for nearly 5 years and it’s only been since the start of 2020 I’ve actually started to be able to post the bills from doing it. This isn’t a sob story, I love what I do but I do see comments from people who think being a “Youtuber” is easy and not a real job.
I’m now on 100k subs which isn’t as big as some of the other guys, they’re probably way more charismatic, efficient (most likely have a backlog of videos ready to go) and know how to tell a story better than me but I’m happy with how the channels going, I try to avoid clickbait and the fakers you often see on YouTube.
I think racers deserve their sponsorships but just remember that even if you don’t like certain YouTube personalities they each are valuable in their own way, from the rad pros showing insane riding to the beginners sharing their journey and everyone in between, they’re getting views for a reason and inspiring new riders in their own way, I’m sure some have done something you disagree with but this job is a hard graft at times and it’s not always possible to do everything 100% by the books (I’m sure we all try our best though).
These channels are giving content and interacting with the very people who are likely to be buying the sponsors product, racers prove a product can win races but then what? Unless they’re active on social media the lack of interaction with customers means they don’t really get the information they want.
So, do I have bike brands throwing bikes and bags of cash at me? No, I’m fact I’m lucky if I get a reply to emails I send out. I do have sponsors and some pay a wage but I couldn’t live off that alone.
I love what I do and I hope to do it for as long as possible.
I totally blathered on but I hope it gives at least some insight
Also thanks for your wheelbuilding tutorial video - it’s still the one I go back to for a refresher, or point people to if they want to learn.
Haha JK, love those guys.
Jokes, thanks for the insight into what goes into it. I’m not a fan of ‘YouTuber’ MTB vids but if people enjoy them and you can make a living then surely that’s a win/win, if people are concerned for racers they should vote with their likes & follows
Surely its just resenting someone for being successful?
At least while selling bikes aligned with bike skills, there was progression in trail design, components, geometry.
If all that matters is some 40 year old dad with a youtube following, squidding down a hill, what's the incentive for the sport to improve? We end up with the same shit, no product development, and smooth, lame, bikeparked-out trails. It sucks.
There is value for the sport as a whole if selling product depends it being used and effective for riders with actual bike skills.
The Industry has progressed even MORE with thanks to these "slower" Youtubers! So Maybe it is you that have everything backwards?
Slow Riders tend to listen to slow riders, and when we are all starting out, we are all slow. Keep in mind, slow riders like Dentists and Engineers tend to be the ones that make money, and have no problems paying $10k for a bicycle
The only thing Mountain Bike Businesses care about is selling THEIR Products. If a slow ugly rider is helping to sell products, and if he he makes a lot of money doing it, then all is good for all sides! and you should be happy that this "slow and ugly rider" is making money by doing what he loves.
Let us all be honest, Fast Guys do NOT really help sell products (at least the fast guys outside of the UCI Championship do NOT). These Fast Guys do NOT even really buy their own stuff, they just want everything for free! HAHAHAHAHA.
The other thing about MTB is that it translates really well to youtube. Most of us got into bikes so we could screw around with friends in the woods, which is pretty easy to capture on a gopro. I mean look how popular friday fails is.
@cuban-b: That's absolutely irrelevant to half the posts you've posted prior. You're arguing just to argue or acting pretentious to everyone now.
Personally I couldn't stand them back then and I sure can't stand 'em now.
The truth. Many pros just want to win, and expect them winning to be enough for their sponsors & self-advertising. Yes, they'll have a SoMe-account, but if they're not winning, they're not posting. And that is boring as hell.
I also do not watch any riding content put out there. Doing jumps and "shredding"? Sorry, not interested. I do not think I am alone in this.
Really? With all the derogatory uses of words like "poseur", "spode", "squid", etc?
B) Progression for most people doesn't mean huge jumps and death defying drops. 99.99% of MTBers don't aspire to be able to ride Rampage lines. That's life. As someone who has been MTBing for 30yrs I can say the number of riders really looking to "push the limits" has always been very small relative to the number of riders in general. Trails were much more "tame" back when MTBing was a small niche sport and most of the crossover athletes were roadies. A little perspective would do you good.
"lmao "slow riders like engineers". Oh shit I didnt know our profession slowed me down. To think I could have been a world cup pro instead of just winning Provincial races if I didn't study engineering ????"
Don't take it personal! I too am an Engineer, have a EE degree and have been working in Industry for over 23 years now. Being an Engineer will not make you slower, it is just we were born slow and have too many obstacles to overcome to be a WC Champion. Keep in mind there are only like 40 Regular World Cup Riders a year, and only 1 WC Champion a year. So deciding to become an Engineer was a good move!
yes, you could have been born a pro! but maybe not a UCI World Cup Pro... but instead you were born to be an Engineer, and this is a GOOD THING!
who cares about talent!
I like to eat, but I could care less about what the Professionals Eaters are doing.
I like to golf, but I really do NOT care about what the Professional Golfers are doing.
I like to hunt, but I could care less what the Professional Hunters or the Navy SEALS are doing.
Do you get my point?
At least with Football, Baseball, Soccer, and Mountain Biking, I do like to watch the Pros and I do admire them.. but not everyone is me. Some people just like to throw catch and ride bikes and talk about bikes and nothing more.
I myself think the Mountain Bike Industry have to give BIG THANKS to all these "Squid" Youtubers, it is because of them is why all the bikes are sold out (Covid also helped to sell bike, but there was an uptrend before Covid).
Professional Eaters do NOT really help sell food, just like Racers do NOT really help sell bikes. The teams that invest heavily into Racing tend to lose money.
WELCOME TO REALITY my friend!
You are taking this way too personal my friend. I am just having a discussion! sometimes my views conflict with yours, but please do NOT take it personal! Do you need a hug?
I actually do read and comprehend everything that you have written so far. Remember, EEs like myself are the most logical people on all the University Campuses of the world. Most people can't do EE work because most people do not have any logic whatsoever.
"Culture Vultures"? and why are they vultures? just because they get subscribers who volunteer their own time to watch their channels, that makes them vultures? Or is it because they are making money doing what they love and that is what makes them a vulture? Who are you to call them "vultures"? and do you want to single anyone out?
When I say do NOT care, I am talking about the majority of bikers do NOT care about Racing or what the Racers have to say. Don't get mad at me! All I am doing is observing with eyes wide open from all angles, and taking notes, and sharing with you my notes. Are you mad at my notes?
As for Gwin and Kenda Tires, I had no idea he rode them, and nor do I or most people care that he does, we all use Maxxis and Schwalbe. (Again, "All" here means the majority, because I think there is a point when we can say "All". Think "parts per million".
For me personally, I myself think all bikes and all products are basically the same, it all comes down to looks. If something breaks easily, then I will avoid it in the future. If I do NOT get the support I think I deserve, then I will avoid that brand in the future. Lucky for me, I am NOT really a "breaker", and every single company I had to deal with when it comes to Support, has been 100% with me. This includes Ibis, Santa Cruz, Commencal, HT, any my LBS.
I have no clue how much Santa Cruz invests into Racing, I am NOT their accountant, are you? All I know is that the Syndicate is a Team that seams to run on it's own, and SC provides them the bike, but I have no idea how much money SC actually invests into biking. I myself think that investing in DH Racing is where a brand gets the most exposure, as we all watch DH. However, at the same time we all know that a DH bike is very little in common with a Trail bike, but then again brand exposure is also very important, so if SC does invest a lot into DH racing, I commend them, and I think they are getting their moneys worth.
Please discuss....
Racers will use whatever the teams tell them to use. Sometimes they will use a different part that the team tells them, but in this case they will "re badge" the part.
When it comes to DH bike, each brand only has 1 DH bike, so it's not like we have a choice. I don't know if a Pro can influence me on a DH bike when the choice is only 1.
I myself like SRAM X01, SRAM XX1, XTR, and Saints. For suspension I always go Fox, and always Factory with Kashima. I use these parts not because some Tuber or some Pro told me to, I use these parts due to my health condition. If I do NOT have Kashima, I develop a bad rash :-(
It is more like a saddle cushion, I do seem to have less pains everywhere when I have Kashima coated post, forks and shock.
I honestly just think it's the fact that higher skilled (pro type) bikers are butt hurt that lesser skilled riders have managed to gain a much bigger following than themselves.
If a given pro put as much thought, time and effort into making content as the Youtubers do then I am sure they'd have an even bigger following. Someone like Remy Metailler is a prime example - half pro half Youtuber. Best of both worlds, and he has a very significant following.
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If a youtuber put as much thought, time and effort into their riding as any given pro I'm sure they'd have the respect of the sports followers.
Pro's are athletes, would you rather they trained to maintain there elite skills or ditched a couple days to talk at a go pro? See if Aaron Gwin could of won a dh race despite snapping his chain out the starting gate if he"d been preoccupied by fishing for likes.
YouTubers have their place, on the fringes of the sport, the danger here is their sponsorship robs a racer of the chance to race, then it's just those with private finance that get to go racing, then the racing is crap, then red bull don't get the viewing figures to make it worth their investment then there's no racing..........but at least we'll be able to watch all the crap videos on YouTube.......
An extreme prophecy I admit, but is it impossible??? I don't think so
One of the most popular TV shows of all time hosts were definitely not pro level drivers, let alone racers. Yet, millions of views, provided entertainment, and provided another platform to reach the masses with products.
One of the wonderful things about racing is that before, when it generated a huge amount of the media content, it was basically a loss leader for brands that showcased the absolute pinnacle of the sport.
I'd rather stick with a world where you have a marketing budget with two people whos job it is to do that, paid a salary, rather than 400 youtubers scrapping over bits of that salary that are dangled in front of them pumping out mediocre product placement heavy content that often involves taking from other parts of the mountain bike eco system (trailbuilders etc) without giving back.
I wont mention the YouTubers with big followings that I think are dorks, that are average riders at best, maybe because I just am not into them (personality) and their content as much, but others are... all flavors of ice cream out there.
Youtube and instagram democratized content creation and that is broadly a good thing. I'll dip into some armchair psychology. Sponsorship is about selling bikes. For a long time you did that through magazines and financing racers, etc. Now that brands are about to drive that revenue via IG/Youtube, the racers get worked about about "fishing for likes". This is fundamentally an identity issue, as the racers are forced to realize that some dude with a gopro 4 is just as good, if not better at selling bikes.
trails they way builders do , builders would have much more support. And yet where are all the digging efforts? Yah, they're off filming the trail on a ride. Ironic isn't it? I see you're not discussing other aspects of mountain biking being effected by media addiction other than pro vs. joeys but believing that more media creation works for every media creator involved in mountain biking is dead wrong. Don't take my
word for it. Ask the trail builders of the best line in your area. That is, if they care to talk with you.
A weekly upload of a glossy photo to an IG account from a pro rider is extremely boring and forgettable.
I'm a stereotype in many ways. I picked up the sport during the pandemic. 30-40 something family guy who bought a pricey Santa Cruz/Specialized/Ibis bike (It's all the bike shops had, and I could afford it) and gets out 1-2x a week. Half the time I'm over-biked. My purchasing decisions were influenced by Youtubers and bike sites like this one for the reviews.
The EWS and other racing stuff, I'm relatively clueless on and don't really care about. I'm sure there are implications for that stuff on bike design, geometry and the like that will eventually trickle down to me, but I don't really follow it as it's worlds away from what I'm doing on my bike.
Anyways, if you get paid by Ibis, bravo! You've earned it, in my book. Keep up the good work!
As they progress in the sport, they might do a search for something like 'how to brake better' or the like. The first thing google will typically serve up is a youtube video. And us new folk will likely click on it first before anything else.
I don't know if I'm normal but I'll tell you my youtube habits: I watch you, Seth, Kyle and April, Pinkbike, GMBN, and VitalMTB fairly regularly- I used to watch Bible of Bike Tests (r.i.p.), I end up watching top pro videos mainly when Pinkbike and VitalMTB tell me it's worth it. I used to watch a lot more top pros doing things I can't do videos but honestly they kind of get boring unless it's spectacular.
To my way of thinking, I sort of curated my own video magazine since so many magazines have folded up or just aren't what they used to be. I also like that 2 of these have a lot of my local content (Boise, Idaho)- and it was good to see you on Dry Creek, next time pedal up
I'm glad the content is there for me to consume. I'm smart enough to know when I'm being pitched and can figure that out on my own.
"But you have heard of me."
BTW, you have to say yes otherwise Rocky won't pay me to race anymore...
The fact that you're a high level racer means that in a casual conversation you're "that guy from YouTube who races ews for Rocky mountain" vs "that guy from YouTube who has cool content".
Keep up the great work!
Also worth noting that every brand is going to have a different answer to this question based on where they see value. Any brand that values youtube content should be offering their riders a budget for filming separate from their direct financial compensation.
My bike though was sold to me by Cecille Ravanel
I think most of the Youtubers (non pro that is) with the exception of guys like Seth's Bike Hacks who actually makes engaging content are annoying as all hell to watch. If Youtubers don't put engaging content out that showcases something other than their lack of riding skill I really don't know why people want to watch them fumble around.
To my point - what I wanna see on YT is pro racers (current or ex pros) showing us what goes on outside the race tape. Training, prep, tech, etc. How does the daily driver differ from the race set up - why is that good for me as average Joe, why should I buy XY and Z brand? Because to me, quite honestly, race results have zero impact on which bike I buy because let's be honest, all bike are amazing and 90% of us cannot even come close to riding them near their limit like the pros do. So why should I buy the bike racer X is on rather than racer Y. I'll use the same example as earlier - although I am not buying what he is selling, Yoann is a good example of this...
Please mention one thing in video media that wasn't done 10 years ago by common bike magazines through video that only a few youtubers are doing now that is innovative.
But yeah, I don't disagree - I know that is not the norm. I was just sharing what I personally would like to see, and what would get me to hit the subscribe button on a YT channel.
Comparison is the thief of joy - Roosevelt
The successful (!!!) youtubers are, by definition, entrepreneurs who flipped their "handicapped" situation to their own advantage, and are better off because of it than "dudes who shred". Unlike the latter, they solve problems for people at a profit.
"Dudes who shred" can be butthurt all they like, but if they choose to wait for the roast pigeon to find it's way into their mouth, small wonder they don't get paid what they think they're worth.
As an entrepreneur myself, I can't help but think they're like your typical low-income 9-5 employee bitching about not getting paid enough when they're only flipping burgers at the maccies.
Ps. Notice that no one is bitching about Yoann starting a coaching business to make up for his lost income from racing. Same thing, only he's bringing the food to the table himself.
That's not an option for everyone, for all kinds of reasons - first of which is that we actually need people to do all those jobs that might be classed as low income. They should be paid wage that allows them to avoid poverty, at the very least.
Also, you may notice that the same amount of and type of work can make you (a lot) more money as a sole trader/solopreneur/whatever you choose to call it. That can have many many reasons depending on the given market, but let's look at the case of pro athletes vs influencers.
Let's say a company pays $50k per year in both cases, but in the case of the racer, the company has a say in how they spend a portion of that, since it's basically advertising budget for them, and they have to make sure to get the most improvement in brand image for their investment. The problem is that that is not measurable, so strictly speaking it may not be as valuable to dump a lot of money into... So out of that $50k allocated, the rider or the company spends several tens of thousands on travel costs, insurance, accommodation or whatever (in an effort to maximise potential return), and dudes and gals whose only job is to shred don't get as big a cut.. This is method is on the verge of influencer and brand marketing.
On the other hand, in the case of the YT/insta influencer, the company already knows all the metrics they need to estimate ROI. They know (after sufficient testing) that if they give the riders $50k per year and a couple affiliate links or promo codes, they can expect this and that figure in return. They give the riders more freedom to manage that money for themselves as long as they drive the traffic and sales. The rider has to pay rent, travel costs, insurance for themselves, and also figure out how to best use that money to produce more entertaining content, but they also find that they don't have to travel in a zigzag across the globe for half a year, so their costs are probably still lower than an athlete's.. This approach can be classified anywhere between influencer marketing (50to01) and direct response marketing (Remy Métailler).
I have no clue if the income figures are accurate, and I only *suspect* that this is how the mentioned athletes operate, but I hope erryone gets the point. If you had a bike company (which means you're juggling fickly supply chains, distributors, a marketing-sensitive AND YET emotional audience and high production costs while walking a very thin line of profitability), sure as hell you'd want more of your eggs in the "measurable & predictable ROAS" basket than the "hope and pray brand image" basket.
While I have heard the criticism re: Brian Kennedy, he certainly has a market I believe represents the majority of riders (new to mid-skill).
The pro’s will still sell bikes, but they’re not the only ones doing it anymore.
Jeff Kendall Weed is another example of why the YouTube model works as well as the race results model: rad person with some good riding skills.
This. In bold. And it's okay.
I also am missing one point which should be made clearer: I think the edits and videos of people that are pros or close make you feel like you have to compete, have to be able to gap the tdF peloton and be able destroy a berm by shralping it (what's up with that anyway??).
It's this image that doesn't reflect what most people do, and what is much healthier to aspire to: ride for fun, explore your limits and maybe become better. But it's not all about brah-bro's that have the best skillset ever. It's about a hobby that is a counterweight (or a good supplement) to the rest of your life.
I'm sad that there are not many entertaining videos of people going for cool (if not epic) backcountry adventures, fool around with bikepacking maybe, or just do some short and sweet rides and just inspire you to have a good old time with some mates. Youtube channels would be a perfect place to change the culture away from just shredding towards a mass-sport that's still kicking ass even if you're not the best.
One of the main reasons that these buyers mentioned was the accessibility of Brian's content. Folks responded BECAUSE he wasn't a pro racer or crushing the bike park. He was learning, progressing and sharing his experiences in a way that was super relatable for riders at any level. It's inclusive and that makes us all feel good.
The exclusivity of MTB is real - we're on the inside so we don't always notice how lame and inside-jokey we can be with new riders. YouTube bridges the gap and makes riding accessible. Accessibility sells more than bikes, it sells the lifestyle.
3
Compare that to an intermediate rider who has a fun personality and is showcasing cool trails that I'm interested in visiting at some point, that's much more where I am as a rider and person so of course I'm going to want to watch stuff like that.
At the end of the day, it's the views that matter. Why would a sponsor give a pro loads of money if they're not out there showing off that brand's stuff to as many eyes as possible? If I wanted to advertise my bike/pedals/clothing etc, I would choose the average rider who has 1 million subscribers over the pro who has 2 thousand, it just makes sense.
I've been watching a lot of 'Joy of Bike with Alex Bogusky' recently. He can certainly shred, but he's not a pro. He is however, about my age and a great inspiration.
I went to Bike Night at KMF in 2019 (the last time we were allowed out of the house), basically a film festival with loads of high-budget sponsored riders making high-budget films for their sponsors. AND. IT. WAS. DULL.
Gimme tea & biscuits any day of the week.
But if someone made their own choice and spent their own money on gear I might care.
1. The large amount of time and work that goes into his videos.
2. How talented of a rider he actually is. We all know that the Gopro effect is real but he was able to hold my wheel and ride blind with almost no dabs on some pretty technical trails. I was impressed!
It's a lot easier to hate than to put in the work and do it yourself!
So for the average rider seeing a 30 year old youtuber try to bunny hop a tortilla will always be more relatable than watching a shredder do a “1080 no hander backflip wheelie” at rampage.
But not everyone who owns a Sprinter van and a $10,000 bike can declare themselves a content creator who is worthy of sponsorship or success on Youtube. I mean the guy with a decent bike, skills, and a cell-phone could easily produce more watchable content than the rich dude who films his first descent down A-Line.
I'd much rather watch a grassroots guy nail a jump-line that he's been practicing for weeks at 720p, than some mediocre 50-year old riding A-line on his carbon V10 at 4K.
It's going to end up like telemarketers soon where if you don't reach your monthly quota of discount codes used your sponsor will drop you.
My point is that the increased comoddification of every aspect of the sport is driving the passion out of it left right and center, and things such as Strava, trailforks, Ebikes for all etc are causing a lot of new problems for certain trail networks.
it isn't quite there yet but if the numbers that have got into mountain biking during covid all stay riding, the snake is going to eat its own tail pretty quickly if it carries on as it is. And the only thing likely to pull it out of that will be industry lead change.
Regarding the sport growing, I get ya. Frankly for a long time mountain biking was a fringe sport and fringe sports attract fringe people. Fringe people are weird and creative. As it grows, there will be MORE content but I don't necessarily think it will be passionless or boring.
Why does someone have to be among the best riders in the world to be worth watching?
And if some mediocre /average riders are more fun to watch, and have their videos watched more by the public, why is it somehow bad to have brands pay for that?
Also, I’d argue that “most” youtubers are above average in riding skill. So when people who are new to the sport, or are considering the sport look into it on YouTube, they see riding that is fun (or, the riders hanging with buddies and enjoying it, enjoying it for the heck of it, etc). And that riding still looks pretty high level to them. So I can see why they have lots of views.
Additionally the YouTuber boom has meant that it’s easy to scout new trails. I love that benefit.
Likewise, 100 videos of “how to bunny hop” or “easiest way to remove stuck cranks” is annoying on its face but really nice if you’re struggling with a skill or mechanical failure.
The only thing that truly sucks is the hustle/attention culture. The all-caps colorful fonts make my eyes bleed (looking at you BCPOV).
Bike companies are paying Youtubers to advertise their products, in the same way they are paying racers. The best racers get the most money, the best Youtubers get the most money. (In theory)
Remember the 'job' is to sell products. Not shred on a bike.
What a lot of the shredders who are upset don’t realize is that many companies operate with several “buckets” of support and budget each year. They will have the general marketing budget which is then segmented into things like events and product launches, content creation, athlete support, and grassroots sponsorship (discounted products for up and coming ambassadors).
With everything that happened in 2020 companies are in a weird place. They aren’t able to plan and coordinate events like they have in the past, they aren’t sure how to plan video shoots and photo shoots with athletes like they have in the past, especially who to hire to shoot the athletes, what the travel will be like etc..., they don’t know how much extra product they will have on hand to help support large race teams which can burn through a ton of parts each year and all of these things have created an environment where a lot of the brands have pulled back spending on traditional marketing and instead decided to put some of that money into the content creation bucket.
For a lot of companies, hiring an athlete or ambassador who can film and edit videos on their own, take photos, respond to their audience, go through less product, and continue to fulfill their obligations, even if some of the key bike events don’t happen this year, makes a lot of sense and is a little easier for a marketing manager to justify to the people at the top of the companies. Does this mean it’s the “right” thing to do? No, it doesn’t. I think loyalty between brands and riders goes a long way. And to be honest, I haven’t heard of any of my personal friends who were actively in a contract get dropped. I have heard of a lot of people who’s contract ended getting a reduced offer or a lack of an offer. Which I still hate to hear.
Is this a permanent change? In my opinion no. From what I’ve heard once the supply chain is caught back up, travel gets easier, and companies can actually plan things like events, and big video and photo shoots there will
be a lot of support on the table for shredders.
I hope this sheds a little light on why you may be hearing some disgruntled industry vets speaking up. If everyone was still getting paid the same you wouldn’t be hearing this conversation, YouTube is such a different demographic than the standard racer/shredder crowd and their should be room for both sides to thrive. My girlfriend April and I have been making YouTube videos this year and our audience is 65% over the age of 34 and about 13% female. When I was using Instagram more heavily a few years ago the following I had was 80% under 29 years old and 1% female.
When you are talking about how to target those two distinctly different demographics companies will use distinctly different methods of marketing and the budgets are coming from two totally different buckets. There should be room for everyone if we continue to support each other and grow the Industry in a sustainable way. If people are enjoying the content and finding some value in it regardless of whether it’s coming from a shredder or a more relatable rider then in my opinion it’s a good thing. A lot of people have been struggling this year and sometimes watching a friendly face take you for a run down a fun trail is all someone needs to brighten their day, regardless of how fast they ride.
Sorry for the novel haha. Just wanted to share a little different perspective since I have kind of seen both sides of the aisle.
Sincerely, Kyle Warner
I don't think the issue is YouTubers who aren't great riders getting brand deals, the issue is HOW MANY uninteresting content creators get sponsors. 80% of the content out there, it's all the same mediocre 'lifestyle' riding, with nothing to make it truly unique.
Whatever, I'm not a marketing director so who am I to comment
I think the big issue is the fact that certain styles of "trail hunter" youtubers have a load of local riders in various places who think they are snapping at their hero's heels (Spoiler, they aren't) but who are generally out there posting a lot of stuff they shouldn't be to try and get views.
There's nothing wrong with youtube in theory but the reality is it is causing a lot of problems for some trail networks.
As far as bad behavior I'm sure there are some but that needs to be on the brand to weed out and discontinue sponsorship to those people. What I am seeing here is a lot of people whining that mediocre riders are getting sponsorships but I think they they shouldn't. In the words of The Dude "That's like your opinion man".
There are more than 500 hours of content being uploaded to youtube every minute of every day. Making yours worth watching is far more than just being good at riding bikes.
Brands understand this, they also understand that the budget for one race can get someone to put your bike in front of thousands of people every week of the year with a guaranteed positive message attached. The big difference is the racer might have a mechanical out of the gate and you get publicity that is worse than not spending the money at all.
I think in general we all struggle to see things from a new perspective. Back in the day the only way to get recognized was to be a top level rider who could then appear in magazine adverts, so from a traditional perspective being faster means you had value.
With YouTube and anyone being able to create their own content you no longer need to be a pro to make a living in the bike industry. Racing isn't as important as it once was and only a small number of people will make a living at it.
99% of YouTube MTBers are gapers.
Skills with Phil gets a pass, can actually ride a bike.
That said, if it upsets you that someone with several hundred thousand followers gets attention / support from the industry....well you’re an idiot.
If less-skilled riders get more views it's because their overall mix of personality, riding and production-quality trumps someone who only had the good riding part.
The pro's (Brendog, the 50:01 guys, etc., Pilg etc.) and non-pros (Deaks, Paul, Seth, Alex Bogusky etc.) who get this do well because their videos are fun and make you feel part of the gang.
The ones that I don't like, find annoying or whatever, I just don't watch.
2. No like, no watch
3. I like to watch all levels of riding.
Sometimes if I want to fantasize, I watch the sick pro edits, Rampage, Hardline, World Cup & EWS racers. Sometimes I want to watch riders who are close and maybe a smidge better rider than me which helps to build confidence. Sometimes I find people annoying AF and I unsubscribe or don't watch. Sometimes I want to watch glowing reviews of my bike so I don't feel guilty about my purchase. Sometimes I watch to learn about what not to do, ride, or buy, and other times to be entertained or learn about my favorite riders and places.
Who are the riders who feel left out because they think they ride better than most but aren't getting the cred? Well do something about it. Ask friends to help, hire people, buy some tech equip and do it. Ask for feedback. Ask for sponsors or investors who may have the capabilities to film or produce but not the riders. Submit VLOGs to PB. Wear a bikini. Ride to the Capitol. Or just meditate and find your zen without media. Smurthwaite's trolling all of us here anyways.
Yeah, I'm a squid. I chicken out on medium features. I can't manual or schralp or boost. But, I ride with a prosthetic arm. I'm pretty average in many ways. I feel comfortable being transparent and straightforward to a camera knowing that it gets to *some* people. And it works. I still progress and document that progression.
The vast majority of YouTubers in the mountain biking niche don't make a living from it. The vast majority of us care about our local trails and contribute in some way. Roast me.
I could write a dissertation on the youtuber parallel culture universe phenomenon, its happening/happened in every sport I follow with the oldest and most well developed example being skateboarding. The funny thing is despite mountain biking and skateboarding cultures being very different, their respective youtuber parallel universes are the same and bike youtube has followed the exact growth path. We are now at an important phase where they have achieved almost complete cultural independence (this mislead article being fantastic evidence for that) and they will move towards creating their own financial/economic ecosystem.
In skateboarding this translated to entire youtube only pro teams and companies. I think its going to take longer in biking due to complexity and manufacturing costs but it will happen and I'll come back to this post for an I told you so moment.
Or maybe it already happened, I don't actually watch that stuff.
However, I have recognized many Youtubers.
Sponsoring someone is like giving someone a new job role, and a brand can often see the potential in a person and through this develop them into a face for the brand.
Budget naturally play a part in these decisions, a prolific name in the sport will have a huge wage requirement yet get the brand less exposure to the market than someone who is uploading on YouTube once or twice a week.
Look at people who have Rocketed up out of Nowhere like Kyle and April or others who have had channels for years and are still very low in subscriber counts. What is the difference? Many times it has zero to do with riding ability.
I have a friend who does this for a living... Starting from a dream in high school, he has been working at it for ten years or more to get to the point of being regularly recognized on the trail and taking home enough to live on. Oh yeah, and a lot of that goes back into bike and camera stuff! He has pared back his sponsorships to be able to ride what he wants and is fully dependent on the views rolling in. This guy is not detracting in any way from racers so I'm not sure why the meme exists other than perhaps some YouTubers are different.
Some of these guys give an impression of financial success but I'm guessing those ones are either trying to look that way or started off with some money before getting popular on YouTube. I just don't think there is a lot of money in this game.
Ego aside, youtubers raise the profile of the sport...
A higher profile means that the sport gets more coverage...
More coverage = more money for the pros
Marketing will do what it needs to do. Accept it and let the sport grow.
P.S. I'm not a youtuber or a pro, just someone that likes the sport and wants EVERYONE to get paid more.
It also depends on what you're looking for. Squamish's Onecutmedia's chanel is presumably a good example of youtuber content, it isn't hugely inspiring to me, but its a useful tool for local trail beta..his 5.5k subscribers might be his target and find it to be much better for their aspirations that out of this world riding from the pro's.
There is mostly absolute shite on youtube. Pros producing purely awful content like harry main and his almost 1million subscribers. Warning.. this video is literal vomit from start to finish (in my opinion).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SoRAKtK7c8&ab_channel=HarryMain
Which is bonkers compared to Remy Metallier producing benchmark content with just 1/5th of the subs
There are non-pros producing decent content also which provide a real world view into 'riding bikes' and to keep it Squamish local, Paul the Punter for example. His riding and Remys are worlds apart and Pauls vids appeal to a likely very different demographic, but they're relatively close on sub numbers. Does Paul's target demographic spend more money on bikes? Possibly.. and that's the conversion rate that's important surely.
If your budget and tastes are In-and-Out, a review of Ruth Chris's is worthless to you. Same for bikes.
As far as their making a living off of views paying for them to live in a van and travel all around, good for them. They are finding out a way to make a living doing what they love. Life is full of tradeoffs, I am an attorney and can afford nearly any bike stuff I want. The downside, my riding time is limited by work, being a dad, owning a house, and all the other crap that comes with being in your 40s.
I watch bike videos on PinkBike and that's it. And the comments under the videos are always better on PB, most times I actually learn something...
So, I am not sure what y'all think but I prefer to ingest my bike-related media on a website wholly devoted to biking and not wade through trillions of videos that try to click-bait me but just end up making me frustrated because theirs a million more like 'em out there all doing the same thing.
...we especially need instructions for common sense.
If you are like me and don't find race/event footage very interesting you are probably going to watch some other form of mountain biking on youtube. I honestly don't know who the top riders are in each discipline are because I don't follow the sport the way a hockey fans (sorry guys!) would where it seems they need to be able to rattle off stats to each other. I do know who many of the popular youtube channel peeps are because they are entertaining. This kind of seems like a no brainer that the youtube world will recieve the attention and sponsorships. The people who are spending money/consuming MTB product can like whatever they want can't they?
Sponsorship is about bringing interest to your brand isn't it? If it destroys the competitive scene so be it I guess, it happened in many other sports before already if we look at all the x-games sports since it's inception and decline. Probably best for salty folk to adapt or move on.
Straight shredding videos get ... monotonous. It's sometimes more enjoyable to see someone progressing than the best rider throwing nonstop whips.
BKXC helps highlight the trails and locations, which means he may be the "star" - but so are the trails. Realistically he is closer to my style of riding than the rampagers.
Sam Pilgrim is another level of talent. Seeing him get a tricycle, drop a double crown fork on it and then decide to throw "suey no handers" in the middle of a town in the UK is enjoyable too.
I live in awe of Nate Hills.
There isn't even that much racing going on at the moment, and if there is I will watch it, but realistically watching 20 people smash the lines quickly is only as interesting as it can be (especially when I know the results). Show me some of the prep, the mechanics setting up, the bike check and then the post race analysis / camaradarie and I'm more interested.
Keep the swearing down too please - my kids might be watching with me (and asking for a Tshirt for Xmas).
I love watching Rampage highlights or whatever Danny Mac releases, but I'm just not that interested in 99% of the things pros are doing as part of "being pros".
Just because someone is fast or talented on a bike doesn't mean they're entitled to sponsorship. On the flip side, just because someone has a youtube channel doesn't mean they're enitled to sponsors either.
Youtube is the #2 most visited website in the world. It's also the #2 search engine in the world. Some business owners have found a way to leverage the platform. The tides have been changing for a long time, and you need to doore than ride your bike we'll to make it as an influencer. If YouTube were easy, these pros should just start a channel and take it in with very little effort. I think the sour grapes come when they realize running a YouTube channel isn't easy and it requires skills that a lot of great riders don't have.
In this day and age, where companies are trying to reach the largest audience possible
All that said, I've begun to avoid the professional or striving to be professional youtuber channels. I value a few forum commenters experiences with a product much more than a person trying to get views on youtube.
In my day we only inflicted our crappy GoPro footage on our mates.
I don't agree with people videoing illegal trails or breaking the current lockdown rules for videos.
Me leaving the groups this is happening in is not really much of a solution to that problem.
I guess what I am trying to say is that builders of unsanctioned/illegal trails don't really have any leg to stand on to moan if their trail is found by others and ridden, even in poor conditions. However I would caveat that with riding trails in conditions that would damage the trails is bad etiquette, but I don't expect every rider to know that...
I ride what I ride because of what I think, not because of some racer or Youtoober.
If you can't figure stuff out on your own; ie work on your own bike, then you got bigger fish to fry.
There are some channels I cannot stand that some people love. For example, I personally have no use for Boostmaster but respect the hell out of him for what he's done. Same goes for the way Seth's Bike Hacks has transitioned more into a "look at the fancy shit I can afford to do with my YouTube bucks" rather than a "how to fix/build/practice something" channel, but again I respect what he's done and he clearly has an amazing following. I do love Skills with Phil, having met him in person a couple of times he is just as kind in person as he comes across in his videos and I have learned a ton from him.
So yeah, I guess I am happy more YouTube channels are getting the bulk of the marketing efforts. I enjoy watching the EWS races but long ago lost interest in UCI XC and DH events so if a manufacturer is going to sell me a bike it will be through the experiences of more relatable content creators.
All this time I thought it was about the joy of competition, making the breed better and so on.
Since we're on the YT craze. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDlR_ccnZww
Marketing staff at X brand can attach a value to those videos because they can see how many eyes are on that content.
That mid-pack EWS or WC DH racer, who still has to work part/full time, is spending all their free time training their guts out.
They might share a few videos online but that’s not their priority. They gotta be fast riders, not fast video editors. They don’t have time for creating thumbnail eye candy.
There shouldn’t be less money in the pot for those folks because some pleb who talks to themselves while riding in running shoes has a couple of subscribers.
But they get a slice of the pie because you can measure their impact. It’s a little harder to measure with those racers out there putting in work day after day.
I often sit grinding my teeth listening to youtubers gushing over the merits of riding a frame that is way too small for them. Or posting POV footage of them riding trails in the wet that are really, really not wet weather appropriate.
So I find it hard to be ok with them getting support when they’re encouraging viewers to make similar poor choices – especially as the sport grows and grows
The only pro rider I sub to is Cathro while the only other properly skilled rider I sub to is Ali Clarkson (apologies to the rest of my subs lol)
The big thing that YT has done for me is get me out more, get me out to different places and meet some fantastic people.
*Intense silence as nobody wants to write it
Pinkbike: *draws James' name out of the hat
James: *Sees visions of the comment section, begins to cry...
Some time later in the comment section: *becomes infested with crying babies that can't be satisfied by anything that involves PB's opinion.
Imagine how different online media would be without bots, clicks an likes.. By that what I mean is,
are bike companies now or in the future designing bikes because the marketing department are thinking about what the real world riders/sponsored racers want/need or what the dreaded algorithm gives them a false idea of? An then consumers just blindly buy into that because the same?
Now, bikers (yes, not all WC level, but still, BIKERS) get some of that bread directly by working to make content that people like to watch. Yes not all of it is for everyone, but do you remember how hard it was to find bike/ski/action sports content before YouTube?
I see this as a net positive. For instance, last night, after learning how to building a fat bike wheel on youtube, I zoned out tensioning spokes and drinking beer while Yoann, Phil Gaiman, GMTBN, Seth, Nate Hills, etc, played.
Is it a perfect system? Nah. But pretty damn cool.
One example of many is Orange County California mophead MoAwesome, a 100k Sprinter jockey rolling across the westcoast, riding trails in slop conditions, (such as Bellingham's Galbraith mountain in wet snow) poaching unsanctioned trails deeep-throating a gopro and latest ambassador (not a sponsorship) product under a fake smile, sharing secret trails to his patreon supporters to avoid public backlash through a paid firewall, then deleting comments arguing against every bullsh!t point he mentions online to become a one-sided word wall of fake mtb content. It's one of the most parasitic displays of mountain bike entitlement culture rolling unhinged today.
That crap is destroying mountain bike advocacy efforts everywhere and while a handful of video sycophants here want to argue the concept of entitlement, I'll remind them that it take months to years to make trails that could eventually be adopted in to public lands but instead are getting destroyed and taxed by riders who got led in by Gopro addicts for Instalikes, shred the spot to sh!t, then split. All while misleading viewers to the locations without knowledge of the conditions, such as particular parking area, lines to avoid to unsigned trail, illegal fires, trash, and avoiding blowing up the spot on the Strava heatmap.
Because Youtubers don't give a crap. They're in it for the content and the money. So it's no wonder why them and other content creators who blatantly go against etiquette requested by builders are hated and that the surge in video content addiction and creation needs to die.
And save your breath telling me I shouldn't bring this sh!t to attention. Covid era ridership brought that out to roost back in March 2020 but it's been a sh@3storm for years. You think making video content is work, try 2 years of labor making trail (that pros love) only to have it f#$ked in a few months from video content poaching. Time to start learning from it for once.
Make money, ride bikes by yourself or with your friends, do whatever you want.
If money is going to YouTube etc instead of racing, sponsoring athletes or sponsoring races (youtubers for the most part are not athletes) bike progression and tech might go in a different direction. Time will tell...
I’m sure after 2020 bicycle manufacturers have a pretty good idea how to reach their markets. If sales are still strong with little to no racing and events, one would question there importance.
Who’s forking over the the money for trails we race and gather content on? Who’s donating money for new trails?
My mind is constantly blown that someone like Hills, one of the earliest do develop a strong youtube channel, has 210k followers, while the likes of Berm Peak has literally ten times that at 2.2 million. Berm Peaks is a nice guy, but there's no comparison to skill level/diversity of terrain/etc.
A sponsorship is advertising, its not like an NBA or NFL salary where at least part of the revenue comes from people paying to watch the sport in person or on video.
The NBA and NFL also make money selling merchandise certainly but almost all the revenue in Mountain biking as a sport comes from selling bikes (I know there are professional purses but that is not the main revenue for individuals or teams).
I think that says it all about this question. If people who sell bikes determine that what sells bikes is views on youtube, that is where they will spend their advertising budget.
Rightly or wrongly content sells bikes and simply being quick on your bike doesn't.
There's plenty reasons why this is the case, but I'd hazard a guess that 90% of riders have more in common with an average ability guy in his 30s on youtube than they do WC or national level racer. I'd also take a stab that a large portion of folks slapping dollars down on new bikes fall in to that category too. Just a hunch though
What I really hate is that "gimme free shit - I´m an influencer" thing. Every idiot on IG is featuring stuff from brand "A" today and brand "B" tomorrow. Depends on who is sending shit to them. I´m blaming 50% on that free stuff idiots and 50% on stupid companies sending stuff...how despereate could you be...??
Times are certainly changing, not sure whether it's necessarily all good for the sport but as they say 'the genie is out of the bottle now'
I also I think people want to see average riders and the battle to progress just as much as they want to see Finn, Remy & Brendog blowing their minds.
As with anything, there’s trade offs. I certainly love watching people huck stuff that I couldn’t dream of. I’m quite impressed by it. I understand and respect the sacrifice involved. At the same time, I certainly feel the draw of just finding a YouTube personality that I like and which looks like something I’m doing during mtb season. There’s definitely, for me, a more personal connection with the latter, which probably results in more of my views than the shred the gnar pros. And that, in turn, translates into sponsorships, etc. In any case, it’s not going to change.
They are riding a huge boom. They don’t care about people who have been riding forever and are doubling down on brining in new people who have no business riding.
Change is hard and all that, but this use to be an exclusive club and now we are trying to bring everyone in... well things aren’t so cool anymore. The bust is coming and it can’t come soon enough.
PS Levy I'm searching for a comment podium here
I'd rather watch Seth Bike Hacks all day over a boring pro with no personality. Luckily the youtube MTB pros who run channels are all fairly entertaining personality wise (bernard kerr, sam pilgrim, GMBN crew, remy just rides insane).
Pro or not, if you can draw an audience, and drive clicks and views, then that's all that matters to a bike company trying to move product.
So I would like to put the meme to debate and would be interested in your opinions
here´s a google image search to stress what I mean:
www.google.com/search?q=nazi+propaganda+fat+man+capitalism&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjC6uCNurTuAhVE2KQKHZ6VDj4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=nazi+propaganda+fat+man+capitalism&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1CID1iID2DoFWgAcAB4AIABW4gBW5IBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=X1gNYIK_IsSwkwWeq7rwAw&bih=713&biw=1451
To clarify, I understand that it´s not the intention to be anti-Semitic or to spread nazi ideas, but I believe to combat antisemitism we have to be aware of the means that were used to establish it and to avoid spreading such images since they on a subconscious level keep those stereotypes alive in a society.
tl:dr
fight fascism, reflect on memes and the stereotypes they reproduce
I care more about the opinion of regular guys or girls who ride a lot of bikes than I do about any racer. I don't race, I'm not that awesome, and what a racer wants is not necessarily what I want.
Don't get me wrong, I know racing drives technology that trickles down to me. But I don't care what any racer is riding.
These “Youtubers” you despise have found a way to do that. And some of them do the rest of us a great service with hours of content. Most of them don’t claim to be the best. Reading between the lines I sense a lot of hostility for folks like BKXC, BCPOV or Paul the Punters. While they might not be “pro” level riders, they do ride a lot and know how to share their love for what they do. They definitely help get more people involved in the sport, which means more bikes/gear sold. Which means a growing industry and more money for more trails, parks and innovations in tech - and more sponsorships for skilled riders ...
Seth (Berm Peak/Bike Hacks) has leveraged his Youtube cachet to build a whole mountain of FREE bike park level trails. I wager that will have much more impact on getting people involved and loving this sport waaaaaay more than who is going to place first or 32nd at the Enduro World Series.
I don’t usually waste my time feeding trolls like this but it’s raining and I’m still recovering from the broken/dislocated/torn shoulder I got this fall shredding my local trails with no hope of ever going pro but knowing that I’ll keep riding until I can’t anymore. Take my advice. Go out and ride. And quit hating on people who may not be as good as you. Their love of the sport is just as valid as yours even if they’re “squids” like me.
link?
www.youtube.com/channel/UC4OcWuM54xEM8IrIYuqx5yg
My question on top of this is how do they determine the effectiveness of converting all those eyeballs to actual sales? I mean there may be videos that get views, but is what is happening in such videos actually going to influence sales? I see some social media accounts on YouTube and Instagram that have pretty decent followings, yet I can’t imagine the actual riding in these videos would ever influence a bike purchase. I guess these rider’s accounts are relatable to the average rider (can’t think of any other reason to watch such mediocre riding) but does stuff like that actually sell anything,
("sponsored by no one")
Although you ought to differentiate. Not all people who film themselves riding bikes are to be put into the same category.
There's pro riders who just document their rides or races, give riding advice or provide insight into their training. All in a relaxed and after-hours kind of way.
And then there are those annoying social-media clowns, who run their channels as if they were soap operas. Clickbait and drama everywhere. You know, those kind of people who have 10 second intros, whose every thumbnail is clickbait and who write all their titles in caps lock.
Not that the latter don't shred, most of them do. But they are also annoying and it's unfortunately kinda hard to avoid them thanks to the social media algorithms. Feels like they are constantly being pushed into your face.
PS: article is meh, riders shouldn't be forced to have use YouTube to get sponsors to want them. Do you even understand how much time it takes to shoot and edit content? I swear some people think you can just get a good video shot and edited in like 2 hours.
youtu.be/XmiZ2YJBWXk
I think you may be missing the point
Let’s qualify being a loser, shall we?
What would you like to compare?
Value of our homes?
Looks of our wives?
Income?
How many bike trips a year we make?
How many bikes we have?
Whether you’ve flipped Corbet’s?
What criteria would you like to use? Let’s settle once and for all how big of a loser you really are cuck-b.
I called you out and now you’re upset. For that, I apologize.
I can only imagine the studio you are clicking away from on your macbook.
You’re right, a part of me certainly is a loser for interfacing with the cretins on this site.
Off to the trails.