Tech Tuesday: Why Is It So Hard To Reinstall Saddle Rails?

Jan 10, 2023
by Travis Engel  
Note to reader: WTB does not recommend any attempt to repair a saddle either at home or on the trail. If a saddle rail pops out of the socket, it’s possible the base, rail sockets and/or rails themselves could be damaged. Trying to repair the saddle could lead to saddle failure, resulting in injury. If a WTB saddle is damaged in this way, the rider should submit a warranty claim through WTB customer service. The topics in this article merely discuss past experiences. This article serves to provide background on the installation process at the factory as well as explain why it is so difficult to perform such a repair.

Chances are, if there’s a component on your bike that you’re unable to take apart and put back together yourself, you shouldn’t ever need to or want to. Bend one side of your derailleur’s parallelogram, and you’ve probably bent all four. Blow the damper on your rear shock, and you’ll be better off leaving the repair to the experts. But pop a rail out of your saddle in a crash? How hard could that be to fix?

Well, if you’ve ever tried, you know: It’s really goddamn hard. The moment you line up the pieces, it becomes clear that there’s got to be some magic trick to it, like one of those trapped-ring puzzles. Or maybe it’s a more industrial trick, like the rails are shaped at the same moment that the’re attached to the saddle. Or maybe they’re partially inserted into the injection mold while the saddle’s plastic base is created. The truth, it turns out, is a lot simpler.

I spoke with Mark Slate, co-founder of WTB, to compare our experiences dealing with the mysteries of the saddle / rail relationship. Not surprisingly, he’s had more of those experiences than I have. But very surprisingly, we’ve each, at some point, found ourselves in a pinch, needing to mend a rail dislocation without a replacement saddle or a specially made hydraulic press at our fingertips.

photo

“It’s a slippery operation if you’re by yourself,” he warns. “It takes some real leverage, but I’ve done it.” The most important thing to remember if you really want to fix a saddle yourself is that the final step needs to be inserting the front end of the rail assembly. It’s pretty hopeless to try and re-insert a rail at one of the sockets in the rear. Unfortunately, though, that’s where they tend to pop out. Likely because it’d be unlikely for the underside of the saddle nose to hit the ground in a crash. But if a bike goes ass-over-tea kettle, the rear of the saddle is in harm’s way, and anything can happen.

You need to start by removing the one rail that’s still inserted in the rear socket, which is no easy task in itself. But it is possible thanks to the added flexibility offered by a partially dismembered saddle. With the saddle upside down and the foremost two inches of the nose secured to the edge of a solid surface (I used a woodworking clamp and a sturdy workbench), you just need to pull up on the rail while pushing down on the rear edge of the saddle. Really hard. I recently went through this process on a WTB Volt saddle, and it became clear why you need to go nose-last if you ever want to get back in that saddle again. On the Volt, the rails are inserted about 18 millimeters into the rear sockets, but the bend that tucks into the nose of the saddle went in only about 14 millimeters.

photo

The re-assembly process works a bit like using a shoehorn to get your heels into a stiff pair of wingtips. A flat wide tool like a motorcycle tire lever is probably ideal. Using a clamp or, better yet, an extra set of hands, secure the saddle upside down to a flat surface, putting something underneath it to force it to flex. Like laying on a therapeutic roller to stretch your back. Press down on the nose, hook your tool into the cavity where the front end of the rails belong, and arch it towards the rear of the saddle, pushing against the nose of the rail assembly and letting it slide down into place. This, of course, is also really hard.

At the factory, Slate says it’s a lot simpler. “Basically, we fit the two ends in the rear sockets with the rail clamped securely, and then the shell gets bumped from the top with the pad and cover already in place.” There’s no standard rail-installation machine, though, so some manufacturers do it differently. Often, it’s a high-tech version of the DIY shoehorn method, but they’re all fundamentally the same process. There’s enough flex in the saddle shell itself that the two pieces can be connected in the blink of an eye. Ironically, though, it’s exactly because this method is so easy that repairing a saddle is so hard.

photo

“We have had saddles in the past with screw-in nose parts. Saddles where the rear tips plug in, and a cap screws into a hidden t-nut at the nose to hold the rails in,” explains Slate. “That makes sense for the idea of having people more easily change rails, but it costs more. A lot of what we do in the saddle game is OEM.” It’s a winning proposition for a brand to get their parts specced as original equipment on complete bikes. Volume is higher and overhead is lower, but Slate says the competition is fierce. “You’re so often fighting with cost and profit margin. It gets pretty brutal, so we’ve gotten away from doing bolt-in rails.”

That doesn’t mean Slate is totally satisfied with the system that’s in place now. He made mention of WTB experimenting with SDG’s I-Beam interface, but that it made it too difficult to engineer any natural flex in the saddle, so nothing ever went to production. He also liked aspects of the Pivotal interface, which dominates in the BMX world, but lacks adjustability as well as any natural flex.

Then, in a reminder that no standard is safe, Slate daydreamed about a sky-is-the-limit approach to saddle design. “It sure seems to me that there should and could be a better way to do it. It would certainly be more cost, but the way I look at it, if you’re going to throw away the playbook and just get what you really want, wouldn’t you want a saddle that’s like your car that was electrically adjusted and could tilt and go fore / aft and perfectly position you? That’s the sort of thing that I think would be a nicer embodiment of the structure.” Of course, WTB isn’t actually working on an auto-tilt saddle, but if they were, it may actually be easier to repair than what we have now.

Author Info:
travisengel avatar

Member since Jun 23, 2010
21 articles

84 Comments
  • 107 7
 PB totally railed this article and got right to the seat of the issue.
  • 35 0
 Don't be a butt
  • 27 1
 I backed out of a meeting just to read this article. Now I'm bummed. They saddled the deal without me.
  • 12 0
 The bottom line is that when a rail comes out of it’s socket it’s a huge pain in the butt to fix.
  • 4 1
 @wobblegoblin: Where did you put the rails? Read the article again, you may have missed the target.
  • 4 0
 @vinay: I could only find one empty hole.
  • 9 0
 @pyromaniac: I hope it doesn't taint your relationship with coworkers.
  • 5 0
 We just need to wait for the dust to "saddle"
  • 4 0
 So many wisecracks on PB!
  • 1 1
 Yo ass be de-railed if your bike goes ass-over-tea kettle
  • 6 9
 @benlow3019 BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT BUTT
  • 2 7
flag scott-townes FL (Jan 11, 2023 at 8:50) (Below Threshold)
 You know you're dealing with a high IQ audience when the funniest things they can think of are simple puns.
  • 3 0
 @scott-townes: For the ones that downvote you, it's the opposite Wink
  • 1 0
 @brass-munky: hahabaha
  • 65 0
 If any repair cannot be completed by simply hitting it repeatedly with a hammer, it's beyond repair and replacement is required.
  • 31 0
 Wrong, you have the incorrect hammer, don’t get frustrated or struggle, get a bigger hammer.
As we in the world of professional mechanics like to say “Don’t force it, get a bigger hammer.”
  • 7 0
 Have you guys never heard about ductape?
  • 18 0
 What are hammer?
I like rock.
  • 4 0
 @wobblegoblin: It is all about mass. Lift the entire bike and smash it saddle down on a bigger rock or trunk. If you do this skillfully, the rails will pop back in nicely. If not, you need to work on your skills. Better practice this at home until you have it perfect before you really need to do this trailside. On your own bike or on that of a (former) friend.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: I have hammers heavier than my bikes.
  • 4 0
 @vinay: Bikes are just portable hammers. In fact, everything is a hammer if you use it correctly.
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: In my auto mechanic experience, one of my favorite sayings was "put your purse down and go get a real hammer!"
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps:

True story: I used to work as a Harley mechanic. Was bolting on a set of cylinders, and asked boss torque spec. He said "Jes'grab that breaker bar an'giv'er all ya got! She'll be OK."
  • 5 0
 @thomasjkenney1024: I believe that's referred to as German torque.... Gudentite.

We always used to joke about bike shop kids using the standard bike shop torque of "tighten till spins freely, back-off a quarter turn."
  • 12 0
 Thank you for that! I will now carry those extra tools in my riding bag.
  • 5 0
 Thanks. This video made it clear. PB should have included a video with the article. I don't think I would try this out on the trail but in the shop I would.
  • 3 0
 Frickin brilliant.
  • 2 0
 Wonderful - that's home mechanics!
  • 1 0
 @TwoNGlenn: The vise would be tricky...
  • 1 0
 Couldn’t you just use 2 seat posts?
  • 1 0
 @wobblegoblin: Not exactly, where the rails poke into the seat at the back it's too wide for a standard seatpost. And the front is too narrow. If you watch the video you'll see what I mean.
  • 23 0
 Update: Pinkbike tech article results in hundreds of home mechanics turned eunuch.
  • 10 0
 Pinkbike readers are the new Unsullied. Ten thousand strong!
  • 23 0
 Pro tip: when installing a new saddle DO NOT unscrew the bolts to the post all the way, you will make your life hell
  • 20 0
 I realized this way too late in my biking life. Maybe 6 months ago I was drinking a beer at the shop chatting with the mechanics and just happened to look up when a saddle was being installed, the correct way. In my head I was thinking "holy shit I am so dumb" and ever since I've probably gotten back hours of my life.
  • 15 1
 Outside really milking Travis' past work at Beta.
  • 9 0
 I have had to do this before… and I couldn’t even finish reading the article because of the memory of the past trauma. Maybe I’ll ask someone less psychologically damaged to summarize it for me.
  • 8 0
 I had my WTB Volt rails pop out in a crash and it was an absolute b**** to get back in. I tried so many different methods and failed to pry the nose of the rail into the pocket on the seat. I ended up having to bend the rail to get the rail end back in the hole (it was already bent anyway), and bend it back (i.e. hammer the s*** out of it with a block between the seat and the rails) once it was in the plastic holes. Thank you Chromoly rails!

Also to note, I had contacted WTB about fixing this or crash replacement, and they told me to pound sand, so here we are. The seat works fine again and I would of course expect it to fail in the same crash scenario.
  • 8 0
 I broke the rails on my Volt when I landed flat off a 50cm drop and let's say "sat down violently". WTB offered me 20% off a new saddle which was less of a discount than what online shops were listing new saddles for... Razz
  • 2 0
 I just finally threw away a pure V that I really liked. I fussed with it for a while, but i mangled it beyond saving.
  • 11 0
 and i thought this article was going to be about why installing the saddle to the seat post makes me rage.
  • 7 0
 In 24 years of mountain biking (trail, DH, dirt jumping, XC, whatever), I think I've popped a rail once. And that was back in the days of dual-crown hardtail free riding, doing ridiculous wheelie drops just because.
  • 1 0
 I’ve popped 2 rails in 32 years, one on a gorgeous Flite saddle with a perforated leather cover, I tried everything to get it fixed. . . Last year I popped a rail on a chromag saddle and just bought a new one.
  • 9 0
 Recycled beta articles now..man really going downhill with the lame content.maybe come out with some more ebike ads
  • 3 0
 At least its an actual article vs a video.
  • 2 0
 @warmerdamj: except this time, a video would've probably been clearer (hey, I'm on PB and Dutch, so I have to complain every now and then!)
  • 8 0
 Sigh. So this is what happened to Beta articles, to be reused two years later on pinkbike. Sigh. At least I still get to read Mike Ferrentino on NSMB.
  • 1 0
 Big sigh guy huh
  • 4 0
 The fix is simple if it's out of the rear mount. I repaired it on my saddle 2 years ago and it's still working fine. You just gotta cut out enough plastic of the inner side of the mount, spread it out a little and pop the rail back in. The forces make the rail push on the outside of the mount, so there's very little chance of it popping out again. If you deem your saddle unfixable, you may as well try it out.
  • 6 0
 The DIY method 'drive over with car (in the right way)' sure worked well for me. What's bad for carbon rims must be good for the saddle.
  • 3 0
 I looped out at 20mph while manualing down an asphalt road and popped one of my rear rails out. The 20 minutes spent unsuccessfully trying to pop it back in really helped me forget about the road rash. This was the same day on which I had just replaced my drivetrain and indifferently swapped to an oval chainring (couldn't find anything else mid-Covid).

Went on for a couple more laps, and then continued to ride my bike a few times a week for at least another month. Knee pain on one side began to ensue. Annoyed at the claimed pErFoRmAnCe gains the marketing people had peddled about these things, I convinced myself it was due to the new chainring and the inconsistent pedaling effort.

Then I remembered, oh yeah my saddle is broken. Weird thing is, by the time I finally bought a new one, the knee pain had gone away. Not sure if those muscles ever evened out, but from time to time people mention that I walk sorta funny.

Moral of the story: just having your index finger on the lever won't help you, you actually need to pull it.
  • 5 0
 My question is why is it so hard to put a saddle on a seatpost ? Has to be a better way. Besides I-beam.
  • 1 0
 Happened to me once in a marathon race. I just cut the baseplate open, which made it much easier to put the rails back. It wasn't such a sustainable fix though but I'm still willing to do it for others in a similar situation. Best of course is to just keep the saddle low and tilted backwards.
  • 1 0
 I haven't had a rail pop out, however, as a rider of considerable mass (read fat ass) I have bent a fair amount of saddle rails.
I have three perfectly good saddles at home with mangled rails that I wish I could fix... Two of them are WTB saddles coincidently.
It would be pretty sick if I could just buy a new rail set and restore my otherwise perfect saddles. *bummed*
  • 1 0
 I can count on one hand (one finger?) the number of times I've had to deal with a saddle rail issue.

But I've had hundreds of times where I've wrestled with wrestling the saddle rails into the seatclamp. Everyone does it their own way, and there are precious few that actually work well.
  • 1 0
 I have done this about a half-dozen times. It is "easy" with two seat posts. One attached to the rail that is still in the correct position and one attached to the nearly upright portion at the rear (behind the sharp bend). The leverage from two long posts makes a quick flex and insert process pretty easy with the rear socket.
  • 1 0
 A easy way to relocate the rails is place and I used that times is: boil some water in a bowl, take the seat and sumerge it short times (like 10 seconds max) 3 to 4 times, relocate the rail and let the seat cold down in a ventilated area. As crazy this looks, it worked for me all the times.
  • 3 0
 I've been riding 15 plus years and never even heard of seat rails popping out, is this a thing?
  • 2 0
 I have been riding 30 years and have a modest collection of saddle rails.
  • 1 0
 Definitely not worth writing an article about.. twice
  • 4 0
 Saddle up for a big ride today!
  • 1 0
 I managed to smash a Specialized saddle - rails popped out the nose - after a particularly nasty bollock to rear of saddle interface. I didn't really fancy trying to reverse the process to fix it.
  • 1 0
 Years ago raced 3/4 of a DH with the crowd shouting dont sit down.
Id crash early on and ripped the entire hull from the saddle. All that was left were the rails which were bent up.

WTF was i doing
  • 4 5
 In 30 yrs riding, I've only popped a rail out on a literally 1st crash after dropping coin on an Ergon saddle - then got instantly rejected on the replacement for (add typical corporate response here) because I crashed. Do rails pop out any other way?

IE: how to lose lots of money by being a douche & not supporting your product. A buddy of mine popped the rail back in in about two minutes by attaching a seatpost with one clamp to the rail and then using a wood lever - popped right back in, but hating Ergon after this, I donated the seat to the local 'trips for kids' bike shop.

It was a fluke but Ergon bared their asses on it so I went to a Fabric short-seat and effin' love it. Now normal seats just look like kook-ass bananas. Three years later - even after warranty was out I emailed Fabric about small separation of the seat cover from the base and bam - they replaced it immediately. THATS how to run a biz: now I'm a devotee and even bought 3 more seats for my & family bikes...Fabric dunks & Ergon clunks.
  • 6 1
 I am a little confused here. How is a crash, a manufacturers defect? Why would Ergon warranty a crash? If you crash your car and it cracks or dents do you go back to Ford or whomever and demand they give you a new one?
  • 2 1
 @OzarkBike: Hear ya but you're analogy is not 1:1. If you bought a new car & you close the door in 10 days and one of the hinges breaks off - that's a defect. Likewise on a new seat.

Id say if ya have a prodcut for all of a week & yr rail pops on a minor crash / instantly - thats clearly a manu defect. I've had 100s of crashes over the years & never trashed a rail - til Ergon. The seat cover didn't even split. Esp at the $150 level - any biz should support the product if its a week old, this is just a gimme. Wasn't even a catastrophic crash, just a casual flop. And why would Fabric support even well after warranty ended (lesser issue) when Ergon would not? The difference in how these two companies responded is night & day.
  • 1 0
 @Mtn-Goat-13: If the seat broke from the rail popping out maybe but if the bike falls and pops the rail out that’s user error.
  • 3 0
 PB talking about why saddles don't like to get railed
  • 2 0
 All I keep hearing is, if your rail falls out of the socket, don't try to jam it back in!
  • 5 3
 Finally! The answer to the tech question that no one has ever asked!
  • 5 0
 Wait till you have to do it - then you'll wish there was someone to ask!
  • 1 0
 It is a dumb question. Everyone knows why it’s hard to do.
  • 1 0
 Why did you stop making the high tail WTB? Its the only saddle that fits my dumb butt. Now i have to pilfer them from ebay!
  • 1 0
 ive done it once on an old lounge seat (remember those?) it was worth it for me but was NOT easy, wouldnt recommend it .
  • 1 0
 times i've popped a rail: 0
times i've snapped a rail: 2

how do i fix that on the trails
  • 2 0
 Gorilla tape.
  • 1 0
 The DVO saddle is completely removable Wink
  • 2 2
 Is it April 1st already?
  • 2 5
 just use i beam
  • 6 0
 Remind me again which droppers are compatible with I beam?
  • 3 0
 @vtracer: sdg has been working on it.







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