BMX brand WeThePeople has shelved its full suspension BMX project after it received a strong backlash on social media.
In now-deleted social media posts, renderings of WTP's upcoming Swamp Monster BMX were apparently leaked to Ruben Alcantara and Garrett Byrnes of the Fingers Crossed project. Ruben has been documenting the development of the Fingers Crossed full-suspension BMX for the past couple of years via social media and through edits that include riding it at
Revolution Bike Park and
in Malaga. His post expressed his anger and perceived disrespect at WeThe People also planning to release a full-suspension frame that was similar to his at the same time as he was publicly developing his own. The posts attracted more than 500 comments and plenty of heated debate, but it seems that the parties have since been in touch, as the posts have now been deleted.
WeThePeople later released a statement explaining their part in the matter and clarifying some points about the Swamp Monster project. They said that the pictures shared by Fingers Crossed were only renderings used to attract pre-orders, and no production frame exists at this moment. They also noted that full-suspension BMXs have been around since the 1970s, that they had been working on the Swamp Monster design since 2018, and that they had developed a different linkage design to specifically avoid a clash with the Fingers Crossed project.
The statement concluded:
| We have been in discussion with Garrett to try to clarify any misconceptions and to find a way that as BMX riders we can all work together to bring both our bikes to the market and give that select audience what they want, without creating any bad feelings for anyone.
Our decision to postpone the release at this time is purely down to respect for what Ruben and Garrett are trying to build up and giving them the time to bring their project to life.—WeThePeople |
Ruben responded to the WeThePeople statement with
another social media post that read:
| Fingers Crossed BMX appreciated this from WTP and like I said in the near future we will be happy if any brand wants to do it, (we know this been done in the past but no one thought about it these days with all this cool bikeparks around) soon.—Ruben Alcantara |
The full statement from We The People read:
Statement: WeThePeople
Out of respect for what Ruben Alcantara and Garrett Byrnes are creating with their ‘Fingers Crossed’ project we have decided to postpone the planned release of our own full suspension bike and let Ruben and Garrett gain headway with their project.
First of all, some context from our side; What you saw on Garrett and Ruben’s Instagram posts was in fact a photoshop rendering of a Wethepeople full suspension bike, one that is created for the sole purpose of collecting pre orders from bicycle distribution companies before plans will be put in place for final production. This bike is not currently in production and is not available in shops.
The image in question was taken from a ‘range preview PDF’, it is meant for distributions and shops to use to make their pre orders. This is common procedure in our industry and is not intended to be seen by the mass public since the bike is usually not finalised when we send this out, things almost always get tweaked a bit. Given the current extended lead times in production, we had to put this preview out earlier than planned to make sure the bike was even possible to take to final production for the order year.
We first began working on the concept of a full-suspension BMX bike in early 2018. As a rider owned and rider run BMX brand with a love for stepping outside the norm, we have always looking for ways to build upon BMX and create new niche bikes which appeal to a small but passionate BMX audience looking to ride something different. We have been creating special bikes like this since our inception in the late 1990s with our 24” Atlas cruiser, 12” Prime BMX bike, Audio 22” BMX, and more recently with our 27.5” Avenger Klunker. We make bikes and we love it, it’s that simple. Over the past decade we have expanded our sister brands and even developed and engineered a range of mountain bikes so the idea of ‘full-suspension frame building’ is nothing new to us. Taking this knowledge and applying it to a 20” BMX bike was a nice challenge for us, and a fun project that our design team felt very motivated to work on. As bike riders and bike designers we believed we could create something which was currently unavailable at the time and for the masses.
While we recognise that the idea of a full suspension BMX bike is exactly what Garrett and Ruben have been pursuing and pushing, it is not an original concept. Full suspension BMX bikes were created back in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s with many large corporate bike brands like Mongoose and GT building their own versions, but with little success. Further down the road Brooklyn Machine Works also designed a bike like this in the early 2000s. Smaller rider owned projects have also been building these bikes on a small scale in recent years. It was something we found interesting, just like all the others that came before us.
Wethepeople firmly stands behind what it does, and we take offence to the concept of “ripping off an idea” when it already exists, especially when the actual design and concept of our bike has not been properly shown and is very different and unique to us. In regard to the ‘Swamp Master’ being a “copycat”; our frame uses a purposely different linkage system out of respect to what Ruben and Garrett have created, and to avoid any remote similarity with the prototypes they have posted on their Instagram. Given a small ‘screenshot’ of a photoshop mock-up has been posted, and we have not been given the opportunity to present our bike in the way we had planned and it’s not accurate to assume on social media that our bike is a copy in any way shape or form - especially when the bike hasn’t even been produced at this time.
After a phone call today with Garrett we heard of their plan on producing their bike in Taiwan, rather than in the USA as we previously thought, we can understand how learning about our bike may have caused them to see direct rivalry and question why we did not reach out first. As an independently run BMX brand, and with a product still in the development stages, reaching out and discussing our product just wasn’t the right thing to do. BMX is a small industry which feels like a family and whilst we as a brand have a love for competition and seeing the hard work other brands put into it, when time and money is invested in a product it must be properly protected. That being said, the mission with this was purely to create a fun new bike and support a growing scene. With the time and development that goes into a bike like this, a “money grab” is not a realistic option here.
We have been in discussion with Garrett to try to clarify any misconceptions and to find a way that as BMX riders we can all work together to bring both our bikes to the market and give that select audience what they want, without creating any bad feelings for anyone.
Our decision to postpone the release at this time is purely down to respect for what Ruben and Garrett are trying to build up and giving them the time to bring their project to life.
Thank you,
Wethepeople.
There is no set date on either project for a release date yet, but we'll keep you updated as they progress.
On the other hand, I do like the way @sspiff framed this "Cool that BMX is apparently a close-knit enough community that an established brand will back off to allow a little guy a chance at a slice of the market. Good job to all involved."
What a f*cking loser and so are his supporters. Do Specialized, Trek and Giant all whine like babies about what their competitors are doing? No the get the f*ck on with business. But this is BMX. Self entitled children with no f*cking clue how the real world works.
But that’s just me...
www.pinkbike.com/photo/20016257
He walks like a Man,
He talks like a Man,
And as a True Hombre
He likes to ride his tiny-wheeled FS bmx bike
At night, up and down the Boulevard,
its' slacked out angles rolling him smoooth,
and Low to the Ground.
You just got to understand.
If he's the only one doing it, it's not a movement. You can't own a movement, anyway, that's the f*cking point, a bunch of others have to join in.
youtu.be/iwnfz5QD4io
"Stepping on toes"? This is capitalism, you make shit and you sell shit. If your shit is good, you sell more.
How is creating a similar, but alsodifferent, thing disrespectful? It should be flattering.
It's weird, they're all essentially "counter-culture" things and are generally very welcoming to newcomers but there's a weird unspoken rule about conformity
I think that's what most people commenting here have little understanding of. They just see a view big business interests from companies like specialized an trek who would rip somebody off in a second without a thought as they have the $$ to sue the FK out of any body that complains
photos.app.goo.gl/94oNoEnRMwHZ1cAXA
"it's a respect thing. Ruben is a bmx legend and although this isn't a new idea, the movement/style he's fostering is uniquely his. WTP beating him to market would have been a bit of a slap in the face."
Have you not ever looked through Pinkbike? Have you not seen the dual suspension 16"and 20" kids bikes made by all the major brands now? A bit of geometry makes for a whole new unseen concept in bikes? What a f*cking joke. Perfect example of the bike industry in general.
f*ck, I had a single shock dual suspension BMX in the 70s. There was the Yamaha moto Bike. Do some f*cking research people. This whiner Ruben and his/your generation don't invent everything you make up . This shit has all been done before you or Ruben came a long. The guy is clearly a rider not a business man.
Plus suspension changes things that some do not want
But still think just call it something else, there is something really good about 20" x 4" tyres that works well
Just dont see why powers in BMX take all this stuff so to heart?
BMX riders are notoriously cheap arse dirtbags who spend as little as possible, so they ain’t gonna but a full suspension bike.
The only folks who’d lay down coin for a full suspension bike in this category is DJ and pump track, but they want something other than a BMX bike.
So yeah, drama over a solution that very few people care about, a turf war over nonsense.
Social media is getting stupider by the day ...
true story
Disrepect is doing a similar thing you're doing but just faster? Should they "show respect" by slowing down to let you catch up?
Disrepect is intentionally changing their design to avoid a potential conflict with yours? Should they have cloned it perfectly instead? Since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
He may be an OG Legend, but right now sure sounds like an egotistical a*shole who's scared to compete on a level playing field.
You can ride a regular, rigid BMX bike at most bike parks just fine since they are almost always smooth enough.
Riding a BMX with suspension at lift served park like Trestles seems like a horrible idea.
I think that's what most people commenting here have little understanding of. They just see a view point big business interests from companies like specialized an trek who would rip somebody off in a second without a thought as they have the $$ to sue the FK out of any body that complains.....
lets face it MTB freeride,DJ, slope evolves from what BMX has done before an often by riders as amazing and influential Ruben. FK anybody here saying Ruben is being a bitch about this.
Oh and another thing, at least those ratty BMX'ers can make a Bottom Bracket that works while MTBers cry about a hundred creaky standards
f*ck MTB (middle finger emoji)
Just to summarize, spends 5-10 year supposedly developing a single pivot bmx? For real? Then is but hurt that someone else made a suspension design that looks similar. For real again?? I mean, I can’t even wrap my head around the amount of stupid. And if you aren’t hanging out with mtb riders that are passion about riding I would recommend looking for new riding friends.
Your honestly telling me you'd be fine with that???
Yeah bullshit
Are you new to the internet? You can’t post about your “secret” project publicly and then be pissed when someone else beats you to the punch. I mean what a piss poor product launch. And again it’s a single pivot bmx bike, with omg this new brake thing. They are amazing, not sure if you’ve heard of disc brakes? I guess they can put them on bikes now. I mean really man, this whole thing is laughable.
Race bmx has embraced disc brakes for a while now too.
Or at least that's the way BMX was back when I was healthy an strong enough to be part of the life style
Also it's not that Ruben has invented anything new, re single pivot an disc brakes or even full suss BMX but, he has stuck his neck an reputation on the line at a time when those technologies are now good enough to make full suss BMX a viable functioning thing, and to see if there is an interest let alone enough interest to make a viable small business .
Now imagine if a similar thing happened to Aggy or the Mc Caul bros.. there would be all outrage here...
An people dman well know it
"Ya actually I have poured my heart and soul into projects with small companies only to have large corporations come in and take the profits. But dude that’s how business works."
...
now imagine it was a close friend or a family member that ripped you..
somebody that should have youe back..
That's what we're looking at here
as I've mentioned that's the difference between most MTB'ers an BMX'ers an respective companies
If my friend or family were in the game to make money? That’s my fault for not putting a patent in place, the problem is when your making a “revolutionary” bike with 25-30 year old technology no one gives a shit.
Dude I’ve been following his project the whole time. Yes it has a following but in the bmx community and that’s about it. And that’s the unfortunate truth of it. Soul and integrity? You serious with that one? Wow. Ya I’m with you. I’ll be laughing about this one for a while.
Also you seem to miss sarcasm. No kidding a bike with 30 year old suspension design isn’t ground braking or revolutionary. So what’s the butt hurt about two people making the same crap? Oh ya. Soul and Integrity.
A little compilation ain't a bad thing.
Well done bmx community, you successfully bullied a company out of producing somthing that would benefit everyone.
BELLENDS ????????
Will full suspension BMXers wear helmets?
They can call it a 26'er, and it will be the new rage.
Nice work shooting yourselves in the...
Kokkonen, on the other hand...
Can people please finish sentences so i know wtf is going on :-)
BMX I had a BMX that had suspension in the late 70s
Nothing new here Look up superco bikes. Has photos & history of Doc he built some of the first full sus 20”, 24” & 26”
And tune in next week where we find out if Roadies can BMX.
Gotta good feeling about this omen. A Good Omen!
i build some DJ frames.
My dude wants a BMX squish.
I make it and he's STOKED AF: asked me to make 24 for his crew and sell a couple.
DO I HAVE TO STOP????
m.pinkbike.com/photo/39676
Get a life, you’re not Ruben.
Anyways, what do you mean grown adults? Like, adults who like to do whatever is the most fun for them? Is it a size thing? You need a bigger bike to compensate for something small?
As for the small size, I think that's just prejudice because big dudes can look kinda top-heavy on such a small bike. The small bike is way more fun to ride because you can move it easier. Higher bunny hops, quicker spins, easier manuals, you can just do more. I have definitely been prejudiced against that top heavy look: I met a dude at some public dirt jumps who was probably 5'10", 220lbs and on a 20" BMX. I was skeptical to say the least (thank goodness I didn't say shit) then he started popping threes, barspins, and tailwhips on every jump. I will say it looked like magic, like he wasn't obeying the laws of physics, absolute legend
Who gives a shit who ruben is? He's a f*cking child. What f*cking world does he live in? Every industry has multiple companies developing and dropping competing products every day.
Get over it you little bitch. Thats life. Your failure is guarantied if you can't compete in an active market with your competitor. what a f*cking joke this shit is.
The idea behind a bike company is to create and offer BIKES. If there is a trend towards a full suspension BMX, then bike companies are free to create their own version of that. Just like bike companies that cater to other styles. The Athertons have a bike company now. I would say that, as a family, they are pretty legendary and worthy of respect. Should Devinci, Spec, Trek, Polygon, Banshee, SC, etc... all stop offering downhill bikes out of "respect" because they are offering them now?
Respect is a feeling. It does not mean that something should not progress. If a full suspension bmx is the next big thing, and it takes you 2+ years to [not] get something to market, AND you are broadcasting it the entire time on social media, AND you do not have any patents on anything well, you were not using your business mind or common sense.
This is why prototype products in EVERY SINGLE MARKET are camouflaged, embargoed, hidden and developed in secret.