Video: Riverside Women's Only Jump Jam - Crankworx Whistler 2018

 Really? Mountain biking may be better than some sports but it’s a long long ways off being equal.

Equal pay at events is just starting to happen and when it does it makes the news, pro salaries aren’t even on the same planet and coverage of the Women’s events is often spotty or none existent.

 @Squamishboz: equal pay and salary isn't going to happen until attendance and coverage is equal. Women's sport can only get what it puts in, and currently it just doesn't draw the same crowds. The reasons for that are much more complex than someone up the line choosing to pay them less because they're women.

 @Squamishboz: Equal pay outs at events has been a sore spot in MTB since near the beginning. I put on the Chihuahuan Desert Challenge in the late 1980s, and on my first race I got so much grief for apportioning the pro men and women the same payouts, I skipped a year before being asked to do it again. Equal payout seemed fair to me, but the boys wanted more. The second (third) year, I invited Jacquie Phelan to hold a WOMBAT, and announced in the promotions the equal pay. That year I met Susan DeMattei, and so many more great women riders.

The outcome? Guys pay for races and camp in their cars, buying almost nothing. Women rent hotels, and buy local vendors. And guys will follow their women to the races. We had a huge turnout, and the local businesses prospered.

 I think the issues are there but are hard to notice unless your a woman who did not grow up in the culture. Sure women can reach to the upper levels of the sport and there are not barriers to their success. But when I listen to the standard level of conversations at the bike park among dudes hanging out, or look at the stickers of scantily clad women on bike fenders and the way aggressiveness (not violent) is the key virtue in biking I can see why my wife has felt that biking is not for her. Its the same stuff you see in skiing and rock climbing as well. Its been a male sport for so long many women feel they need to become "masculine" to succeed and many are just not willing to do that.

 @lej: genuine question. Is there equal pay in beach volleyball because I bet the women command more audience there. Sorry for the sexism.

 @maxetak: I have no idea. It would be interesting to compare women's to men's beach volleyball, as well as beach volleyball in general to other more conventional and more followed sports.

 @lej: Female porn stars are paid ten times what male porn stars are paid....

 @sean9002: I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
That's because a large majority of porn viewers are male, and because it has been found that even female viewer prefer to watch female porn stars. Therefore there is a higher demand for female porn stars, more is required of them, they take up more screen time

 @Geochemistry: Can we please stop pretending that watching womens sports is anywhere near as exciting as men's sports? Are we really that PC that we would deny reality? The reality is this womens sports are boring, women have less testosterone naturally and therefore will never and could never compete with the men in terms of amplitude, skill, or pain tolerance. Lets be real here, The "boys" want more because they deserve more, they are the ones people get excited about watching. It's like a WNBA player demanding the same salary as Lebron James! It rediculous! Stop being so PC and admit that mens sports are more interesting to watch thus adding more value, in turn allowing the male competitors to be paid more thats how it works and always should pretending that women deserve the same amount of prize money for providing a fraction of the entertainment does not serve anyone but feminists. Second, this video was a boring 1 minute long with no interesting tricks or anything I would consider big air, so they deserve more viewers and money why? This is reality ladies, deal with it.

 Every point you just made could be made as to why male DH racers should be paid more. Mostly male viewers. Check. The viewership prefers to watch the men's race runs. Check. More is required of them (they must beat a much bigger field of competitors). Check. So it seems like his point was that equal pay just for the sake of equal pay doesn't always make sense. You can decide which side makes more sense. @lej:

 @ryanbpoquette: Women’s tennis, is more exciting as there are more interesting rallies, women’s XC mountain biking and cyclocross are both far more entertaining and exciting then men’s due to the sport not being dominated by one athlete, and I would argue that women’s DH is just as exciting as the men’s.

 @EKrum: We have tons of women that ride on the Shore and in Squamish/Whistler. It has very little to do with stickers and bike park conversations, but more to do with community. When they are welcomed by other women riders and see how non-threatening it can be to start, they ride.

To be fair, most women don't start by riding park. At least that's what I've found.

 @sean9002: wrong.

 @rrolly: I totally agree, but when there is no established community for them to join in on (like many parts of the US from what I have seen) these things still can be a barrier. I'm just saying what my wife and other women who have recently started mountain biking have said to me. Sure they are not starting the riding carrier at the bike park but I think its a fair question for all of us to ask if a women just started riding would she feel totally comfortable joining you and your group of friends? The answer may well be yes, and its ok if your answer is no. But that means there will always be less women in the sport which will never be a good thing in my book.

And to @ryanbpoquette although some of your points are very accurate I would try reading your comment again while imagining you are a 12 year girl who just got into riding and see how excited and welcomed you feel about your new sport.

 @ryanbpoquette: So you wonder why you sleep alone at nights? I'm glad you''re happy driving you're 12-inch lifted truck.

 @EKrum: So whose responsibility is it to start a 'community' to make a person feel welcome? Where does the onus lie in catering to, in this case, your wife's specific needs? If she's so put off by the conversations being had by strangers or a 'scantily clad woman' sticker, she by all means has the right to spend her time elsewhere. There's group rides around here that I don't attend because I don't like the people in the group--should *they* be the ones needing to change based on my feelings? That's absurd.

People, of all ages, can be a bit crass, loud or otherwise off-putting, in all manner of public situations. Learning how to enjoy your day despite this is called being a well-adjusted adult. Grow up.

 @mikealive: Unfortunately, our cultures (both Canadian and American) have over the past couple of decades have shaped us into expecting things to be done for us, rather than doing them for ourselves. So, your point is largely valid.

However, @EKrum is stating what should be done IF we want more women in the sport. And I think that's what companies are doing with their women ambassadors.

 @rrolly: I want people who are interested in the sport, in the sport. At some point maybe we're going to have to admit that both sexes don't have to be equally interested in every single thing. We're quite happy to ignore lack of male presence in female dominated areas, but we're bending over backwards to shove male dominated activities down women's throats.

 @lej +1

@rrolly: Here's the problem with EKrum's line of reasoning though--it assumes that women are a homogeneous group who all more or less want the same experience. A quick stat check tells me there are 2.1 billion women aged 15-54 out there.. so you can quickly see the error in that line of thinking, yeah? I can only echo what lej has stated in wanting people who are interested in the sport, to be in the sport. "More women in cycling" is a task to be tackled by marketing departments, not some sort of unwritten mandate that there be equal representation in every single activity on earth.

The statement was made by EKrum that "Its the same stuff you see in skiing and rock climbing as well. Its been a male sport for so long many women feel they need to become "masculine" to succeed and they are just not willing to do that". Huh? Does that not sound backward and sexist to anyone else? Look man, I know I'm talking to you rrolly, but this isn't aimed at you personally--but I don't see a woman enjoying trail riding as needing to be 'masculine' by default. Sure, to succeed at the highest levels a person needs to be in peak physical condition. But to clarify, what is unfeminine about Margo Hayes throwing down on a 5.15a, or Lindsey Vonn screaming down the side of a mountain in a spandex suit? It's totally fine to do that--you can still call yourself a woman, and even still be feminine, in doing so. In fact, I'd argue that in doing such things and refusing to see yourself as 'masculine' helps women stake claim to the phrase "girl power" and give it meaning with such actions. They may be the alpha women in their respective fields, but they are still very much women.

*IF* some women are not willing to put in the effort it takes to succeed at the highest levels of the sport, great, welcome to the ranks of 99% of the male rider base, haha. You're still allowed to enjoy bike riding, even if you aren't the number 1 ripper at your park.

 @mikealive: If you're implying that I think mountain biking is 'masculine,' then that's incorrect. I don't. I also don't think that anyone is assuming that all women are alike, though there are similarities in most of them.

When I meet a girl/woman that is interested in being active, has an adventurous side, and enjoys the outdoors, I immediately encourage them to try mountain biking. This has nothing to do with masculine/feminine traits.

 Thanks @lej and @mikealive for your thoughts on this...

@mikealive: you said "it assumes that women are a homogeneous group who all more or less want the same experience."

Not what my line of thinking suggests but I can see how it could be easily be understood that way. I am fully aware that there is no such thing as a "homogeneous group" and there are clearly women who want to be apart of MTB as it currently is. If anything I am trying to put a voice the the group of young ladies who think "I could not do that" when they think of MTB. I work with an org that takes young people into the mountains and the amount of times I hear this sentiment from young girls is incredibly sad. If they see boys in their group succeed at something many no longer want to try since for some girls, but certainly not all, they have been trained that they should not do what men do and are by nature less competitive and more cooperative by nature. Changing this narrative is not something just marketing departments can do but must happen when we all try to encourage young ladies to try things and give them permission to be successful, whatever that means for them.

"what is unfeminine about Margo Hayes throwing down on a 5.15a, or Lindsey Vonn screaming down the side of a mountain in a spandex suit?"

Good point and well made, I would not say this is unfeminine at all, thats not what I was suggesting. I personally have big issues with the way we draw our lines between masculine and feminine in general. The only thing I and @rrolly (I am not trying to speak for you here so correct me if I'm wrong) are saying is that if were cool with the status quo then lets keep everything the same. If that is what you all prefer there is no moral problem with it, there is no reason why there needs to be equal participation between men and women in MTB or many other things.

BUT

If you would like to see more women in the sport than questions like these are the ones we must be willing to ask. The fact that some people get upset by these suggestions means that we are pushing against intrenched dominant normative ideas about our culture and may be getting close to some real issues.

 @rrolly Sorry for the confusion--I attempted to clear that up, as I knew I was talking to you, but was not trying to say that those were the points you were making. I was more or less agreeing with your view point, but hard to convey that as text on a screen. In your response you said "When I meet a girl/woman that is interested in being active, has an adventurous side, and enjoys the outdoors, I immediately encourage them to try mountain biking. This has nothing to do with masculine/feminine traits." Yes, exactly this. To add to that, when I meet a girl/woman that does *not* exhibit those traits on their own, I feel no obligation to convince them to go get into mountain biking because some imaginary 'women mountain bikers' quota is too low. I imagine you may share that line of reasoning too perhaps?

@EKrum: "Changing this narrative is not something just marketing departments can do but must happen when we all try to encourage young ladies to try things and give them permission to be successful, whatever that means for them." Why does it need changed though? Immediately preceding this statement you said, "...[girls] are by nature less competitive and more cooperative by nature". Yes exactly, *by nature*... so why is that viewed as inherently wrong? Pump the brakes on *your* narrative, sir... who decided that what have been historically female qualities are 'wrong'? If, by nature, a person is risk averse, so what?

Look man, I would love to sit down and have a coffee and talk about this stuff with you. These are important conversations to be had I believe, and text on a screen does little service to inflection or tone (I'm not angry or excited over here, more calm and reflective, if that helps you understand where I'm coming from at all). I'm happy to see western society moving toward a point where traditional gender roles are re-examined and challenged where need be. It's great that it's becoming ok for men to show emotion, and women to be assertive, and so on. Where I'm interjecting though is the notion that a woman *needs* to be assertive, or somehow she is failing her group as a woman in this new era. Taking that stance completely stigmatizes what, for many women, feels natural to them: taking less risks, being more empathetic, etc. Why should that be a bad thing for women, especially when it is currently espoused for men? Demonizing everything that can be viewed as 'normative' is a gross over simplification of complex societal structures, yeah?
I could dive down this philosophical rabbit hole for hours, but, for me, it comes down to this: opportunity. Is the opportunity for women to mountain bike available? Yes, great. If a girl/woman doesn't take to the heightened risks of trail riding has she somehow failed? Not at all. Do women need to be celebrated for their accomplishments and judged against themselves (not against men)? Yes, absolutely. To continually evaluate women against what men are doing does a disservice to the experience of what getting to be a woman can bring. [To speak to that, perhaps when you lead the youth rides try taking the girls out by themselves so that they don't have to be judged against the boys capabilities? You may see an improved willingness and confidence that way.] So no, it's not necessarily about maintaining the status quo--it is more about being open to the *option* that it may change, but not putting that change in and of itself up on a pedestal as the holy grail of accomplishment, i.e. seeing it as something that is a 'must' or a 'need'. Hey ladies, it's ok if you want to be more assertive or take more risks. If you don't, that's ok too. It's all good.

 @mikealive: "These are important conversations to be had I believe, and text on a screen does little service to inflection or tone"

I am in full agreement with this and everything you said above. If we were ever in disagreement it was probably due to the medium with which we were conversing. Ride one!

 @EKrum: Thanks for the conversation man! Happy trails!

 @mikealive: I'm not worked up either, but also reflective. As we move on from this and go back to actually riding our bikes (what a great idea!), here's something to reflect on: as our cultures try to move to more 'equality' are we imposing expectations on our girls/women that are unhealthy? I have been a little surprised at my answer to this question.

Anyway, cheers, guys! Make this a better place!

 @Squamishboz: I like the Russian girls grunting and the black chicks ass. care less about anything else

 Disagree completely. Comments like this don’t encourage women to keep pushing and are pretty sexist. There was a huge crowd for this event and a lot of girls just out there having a good time. Would girls want to keep pushing the sport when people tell them they aren’t as good as men? Of course not. That’s why everybody competing at this jump jam are in fact pushing the sport because people like this make women want to not ride anymore.

 @torypowers: you have completely missed the point. The crowd watched a bunch of women just having fun. The sport is not being pushed. They aren’t as good as men. 25+ years of women and no significant improvement. The point is equal pay, equal venues etc. You may disagree but realize you’ve missed the point. Until women completely accept the risks involved they can’t push the sport. My comments were not sexist at all. Simple facts. I didn’t say they can’t improve,, they simply haven’t. Did you see the timeline? 25 years. A qrt century... no significant improvement. That whole time women have been saying the same thing, ‘just Pushing the sport’. I/we do our best to encourage women but that’s all we can do. The rest is up to the women as a whole. Accept the risk. Train. Execute the same tricks(or anything remotely close) on a massive course, receive equal pay and coverage. This argument isn’t about two people with the same credentials doing the same job and the man paid significantly more. That’s sexist and wrong. Women aren’t pushing the sport! Period. Maybe you haven’t been around long enough to witness the facts. When it comes to slope style type riding...there has been no progression whatsoever. We can and do encourage, but why lie. So here’s how this always goes. women say they are pushing the sport and limits. Then they say the want equality in pay and exposure. Then someone like me/us says but your not equal and points out the obvious. Then we are told they are out there just having fun??? That we are sexiest and that our comments are dampening female progression. Repeat. Aaaand repeat aaaaaand repeat year after year. Take some responsibility. Face the facts. Until the margins tighten on skill level, professional compensation and exposure will be miles from equal.

 ... most of them racing faster then most of the riding man will ever ride a bike. Hopefully that changes in the near future, because there are some really great athletes out there who deserve to get paid for their amazing efforts. (of course I know it's complex, but who knows...)

 @fourcross: Unfortunately it's not about simply doing something "better than most" to achieve equal pay/attention though.

 I keep thinking it's about to rain and need to move items inside.

 I agree. I shot it, but showed up late due to bad coordination. These girls were throwing down and I was so sad to only be there for finals. Definitely didn’t get the air time they deserved. One of the most high spirited events of all of Crankworx.

 yah they did a slopestyle for women back in the day and she always competed! good to see her out! just dug in and found it. its called womenzworx

 I actually enjoy womens soccer (world cup) more than the mens. Less flopping. Same intensity.

 @ChrisNJ: Have always felt the same

 Sure, I'll work a little harder so you can go next year. Oh wait, how about YOU work a little harder so you can go next year.

 @stopsaign: just win the lottery for her. all this talk about work...

 @stopsaign: Pretty sure that there is no direct connection between how hard you work and how much money you have.

 Are you actually overf 18, and what do I get in return?