Video: In-Depth Analysis of Flat Pedal Efficiency with the Strength Factory

 Just talked to Nino, he has watched this video. He is going flats next year.

 Flats work for me in all conditions. Very occasionally I'll wish my feet were more planted but being able to move around on the pedals if needed and being able to position the pedal in the middle of my foot for decents makes them ideal. Tried spds and just didnt like them. Good vid!

 Clips just feel better to ride in. My hardtail and bmx bikes are on flats, and they're fun, but for climbing and riding fast the feeling of always knowing my feet are securely in the right spot is excellent.

 The problem is the test does not take into account different terrain off-road. This test might be all well and good for a Roadie, but you have to factor stuff like being able to more efficiently pedal over rougher terrain, rocks roots etc for say enduro or XC racing. Oh, and you cannot compare to Sam Hill as he is on another level to most riders anyway.

 I'm surprised to see no one has mentioned so far (that I have seen) one big minus of flats: getting whacked in the shin with a spiked block of aluminum. It really, really sucks, even if it happens rarely.

 Flats are great until fatigue sets in and get so tired technique begins to unravel. With clipless you can just continue minlessly cranking when with flats the added work of adjusting to stay connected is just enough to be detrimental to effeciancy. Not that I care, the upsides for me riding flats have been greater up to that point anyhow.

 This clown again? This pseudo "scientific" bullshit opinion piece shouldn't be on Pinkbike. Run a proper study if you want to try to debunk "bro-science". One person with a heavy bias, knowing what tests are being conducted and what results are being looked for is like the guy shilling coconut oil saying it will cure every modern disease. Yes, this pisses me off that much, you're doing absolutely nothing then throwing your own bro-shit at the masses. Go peddle your garbage to someone else.

 Anyone can share the results here? I can't watch the video. I'm curious if he found other things than the real life test I've done.
His test is more isolated so it should be more reliable, but at the same time it doesn't include real life effects.


I've been testing this myself last year on a gravel lap I very regularly ride in the Belgian Ardennes. I rode the same 20km lap once per day for several days in a row, while switching between flat and clip less pedals every day, while always trying to beat my own record.
Worth noting I come from flat pedals and wanted to find out if and how much faster I become by switching to clip less.

What I've noticed on the Strava segments:
- There was no difference in speed on flat segments.
- There was no difference in speed on descents (only on one high speed one with some techy parts where I felt less comfortable being clipped in).
- While sprinting up climbs I was averagely about 15% faster on clipless pedals.

Basically this confirmed other tests I've watched, which mentioned that at a normal pace it doesn't make a difference, only in sprints or climbs as you have a higher maximum power output. The downside of the higher maximum output is of course that it will actually cost you more energy when you climb faster or sprint faster.

In the end I sticked to clipless pedals, as my laps were definitely a bit faster with these. My whole point of riding gravel is touring / exploring new places, so if I gain in average speed it means i can cover more distance in one day.

When I grab my XC bike, I'm back on flats though. I come from a freeride background and I care more about having fun and pushing it to the limits on the technical descents than to be fast on the climbs.

 I was impressed to see how close the test was! I ride a hardtail, and find that i can ride rocky trails faster when clipping in, because regardless of how much the rear 'kicks' i stay connected. I also feel like i can move the rear end of the bike around more and place it on small features to pump the bike or do tighter turns when going slow if I'm clipped in

 So an issue with this test: If you primarily ride flats and only ever clip in once in a while, you're likely not going to see the efficiency results that clipless pedal enthusiasts claim. I think the issue is that clipless riding engages your muscles differently, and as a primarily flat pedal rider, you're rarely using those muscles in that way. Like anything, you need to practice to see results.

My perspective on this is that I'm a flat pedal rider who's been riding flats for many years on my mountain bike. I also cross-train road bike, and had been on flats for years there, as well. However, I switched to clipless on my road bike last year during the summer. Initially, I had the same reaction: I noticed very little difference in speed, efficiency, strava times, etc on clipless. However, after riding clipless more and more, I noticed that I got much better at engaging different muscles during the entire crank revolution, and I eventually started to see pretty drastic changes in certain types of pedaling situations.

So yeah, I'd love to see this test performed again by someone who spends equal time with either type of pedal system.

 It all depends, I rode flats for years and recently gone to clips and the feel so much better through rough stuff and in air. Climbing seems bit easier but not really that much. Big thing iv'e noticed is way less pedal strikes and once you in don't need to mess about getting foot in that perfect possition. Both have pros and cons, right what you like best.

 I can ride both, but prefer clipping in. Started in flats, bmx freestyle in the 80's for 8 years. Then when I switched to mtb in 91, I ran toeclips, which were actually not horrible if you ran them loose, you could quickly get out to dab most times. Switched to clipless in 93 or 94. Went back and forth a bit with flats a few years ago, but prefer clips for everyday use. I don't think one is better than the other for everyday trail use, it's what you're comfortable on. Types of riding, DJ, trials, skinnies, I would use flats. As long as you ride, doesn't really matter.

 Don't get the sometimes fiery debates about it. I normally ride CB Mallet DH, ride flats on DJ, and last few weeks flats on the 'enduro bike' to mix it up. CB works better for me in rough DH, flats are fun to play around with. Both are tools and to an extent personal preference.

 Talk about bro science.... you have sample size of 1, and announce your bias, then call results that don't match your bias "disappointing". Hahaha, I think both kinds pedals are great and this video is not.

 In-Depth Analysis of Flat Pedal Efficiency" LOL WHAT A JOKE sample of one with a bias rider who only rides flats on a stationary bike. This proves nothing except that this guy is full of shit for trying to pass this off as a real test.

 I use to ride with spds because thats what all the kool kids were doing. Then about 3 or 4 years ago i wanted to give flats a try. I really like them and my riding improved plus, I much prefer my foot postion on the flat pedal. I feel very uncomfortable with spds and feel trapped and unbalanced. Occasionally ill throw on some spuds to try them out again but i always go back to flats.

 I like the safety of easy off if I have issues. I have watched my friends have awkward falls in rock gardens because they could not unclip fast enough when being caught out suddenly. No thanks. I’ll give up some efficiency for piece of mind. Plus when riding free ride type tuff I much prefer the easy bail if needed. I’m 50 so trying not to get hurt.

 Good video sir. However you too are committing an act of “bro science” here. Sample size is too small obviously along with other factors. Be that as it may I really don’t think that for over 90% of the riders out there the slight degrees of efficiency differences between the two amount to anything significant. I can see flat pedals causing a greater amount of fatigue over time on a ride due to the extra muscle tone needed to maintain connection to the bike. That can’t change regardless of fitness level. However I think it mostly comes down to comfort level. That being said, I’m horrid on flats. Since most of the people I ride with are riding at a pretty advanced level, and riding fairly aggressively switching over to flats would involve me basically going back to square 1. I want to learn flat technique because I’ve no doubt it helps your riding style. But I’m hardly able to switch out my pedals, throw on a pair of free riders, and go hit some double black wit da boys. That would end badly. Any advice for a guy whose only learned on clips?

 I rode clipped in until my foot position wanted to be where a clip wouldn't go. I like when the ball of my foot is over inside corner and the front of my heel meets the back edge of the pedal. Wish I had a lightweight flat pedal shoe designed for gravel.

 Ive flipped between them for the past year on all bikes. Tried good flats, spd and CB. Settled on CB as they do have a flats feel with security of clip.
I dont lose grip on flats but you really can tell the difference when clipped in. Biggest thing (and Rachel Atherton said it on last video) is just the extra control you get. Just feels nice. To me when doing steep climbs clipped in , feels like you an extra gear. I know that's anecdotal.
Two things
People say get good on flats first but thats bollocks its like saying get good on a fully rigid singlespeed first. Its just different no better or worse. Ride what you are comfy with and get good.
Also, when you look at the tech we have at our disposal on a modern mountain bike, its crazy that to solve the pedal slip issue we have to have specific soft rubber shoes and plates of metal with gigantic spikes protruding whereas on the other hand we have neat, elegant solution to the problem in the form of amazingly manufactured SPD or CB pedals and mechanisms.

 Being a trials rider who also rides MTB I can't imagine being physically attached to the bike, all I can think about is how horrible it must be to crash and not be able to save it with a dab (talking about on the MTB, not trials bike). I might try it one day but it just seems terrifying, like having your hands clamped to the bars

 Flat for fun, clip for race. That's my motto.
When I want to try tricks and some trial flat is the answer, but I won't never ever ride my DH bike without clipless.
Plus with the super adjustable last models you can have the best of both worlds.
And by the way, there's no point for another youtube video made in the backyard... I guess there are plenty of scientific studies about power efficiency of flat/clipless pedals for those who are really interested in.

 It is possible to scientifically test flats vs clipless with a subject of one. I did it last winter with 36 trials over three months using heart rate monitor and power meter. I used a two tailed, paired, t-test to detect difference between flats and clipless. If you are interested you can read the write-up at: sites.google.com/view/flat-pedals-vs-clipless/home

 I ride flats. Everyone now and then I throw the spd’s on.

I love the feeling on downhill, but when doing tech climbs something in my mind freaks out that I can’t unclip in time so I ride those bits unclipped like a chode. I feel a bit more efficient clipped in.

 Levy says flat pedals are for kids
He's my hero

 After many years on each, my big take away is flats take way more skill to ride. Floating your bike up into you consistently through rock gardens on flat pedals takes full time concentration and years to master. Same rock garden section clipped in with Mallets after a couple of days practice you're not thinking about your feet at all, just concentrating on your line.

 You talk about how in previous tests, they take roadies who know clips best, and are inefficient at riding flats, which "skews" the results. Then you say that you have been totally committed to flats.... which would mean you are inefficient at clips?? (ie, the ability being clipped in allows different muscle engagement). How is this "test" an accurate portrayal then?

 i use 5/10 freerider with nukeproof electron evos and i have to lift to reposition my foot there that grippy anyway.....thats all the grip anyone needs. I did try the e13 lg1 pedals but they were way too grippy with those shoes....had trouble getting my foot of to dab if needed.

 Always been riding flats, 5.10s with nukeproof horizon feels grippy AF, but on tougher places I fear pedal's spikes more than falling itself

 Great vid but my god man turn down the intro music! i had the volume up to hear you then the intro dropped and my poor dog nearly died she jumped so hard

 Please do a test video in the trails!
I'm always clipless: bike park, skatepark, trail, you name it. I did ride flats the other day when I forgot my clipless shoes and it was a tremendous (stability) leg muscle workout. I recommend it for cross-training. There's no exception to the control I feel on clipless. Think about the fact that you hold the bars, you don't rest your hands on top of them. Your videos have a way of hitting home which is good, and I know you said you're new to this visit thing in your last video. I would like to see more key information, (like this test in the trails) and (in the last video reminding people in the flow position to still have a slight bend in their knee) I think you're going to get through to a lot of people brother.
Cheers good job!

 Clipless is more efficient because you are using more muscle groups (quads and hamstrings) and over time will more energy efficient and have less fatigue. For training purposes, flat pedals may be good to target building strong quads.

 Who cares? Ride whatever you like, whether than be flats or clips. If you want to race seriously maybe think harder about clipping in. Even Connor Fearon admitted in a PB interview a few years ago that clips are probably the way to go for racing. And if you bring up your Lord & flats savior Sam Hill I can start naming all all the DH racers who race clipped in... Which is most of them.

Me... I switch back & forth on my Megatower and usually end up riding flats for the winter & clips in the summer. My XC bike is all clips all the time.

 I just rode trails clipped in for the 1st time last weekend. The benefit, for me, wasn’t efficiency but some of the ways I was able to manipulate the bike. It felt awesome to be able to move the back end around so precisely. On the down side I was not able to put same force through the pedals when cornering, because my shoes just drifted in the cleats, and I fell over on technical climbs a few times cause I couldn’t get out in time. Fun experiment but sticking with the flats!

 I clip in on the left and run a flat on the right. Lost half of left foot and found it more comfortable to clip in (made custom shoe with clip at heel area). I find it better to be able to change foot positions on the right side flat pedal, so I have never tried to clip in on that side. I do like a stiff sole shoe on the flat pedal.

 After 10 years I hit a wall learning more advanced skills, mainly because being clipped in made me nervous about being able to bail in time or clip back in for sketchy sections. I have been “weaning” myself off clips to flats for the last few months and I’m slowly starting to feel a lot more confident in very technical situations. I am still not as accomplished at climbing technical sections compared to with clips though. Overall I have been surprised at how little energy difference there seems to be between the two. When I’ve built a solid base of advanced technical skills I will probably try being clipped in again. For me it’s a mind game.

 You're showing your bias with comments such as "I'm disappointed" with your flat pedal performance in peak power. Now you're going to consciously try to work on your tecnique so you can deliver the results that sync with your beliefs? What if you work on your clipped in max power? Or will that be cheating?

As well the idea that immediate peak power will slow you down on the trail is a bit questionable. Industry 9 has made immediate response one of their core design features.

You're shooting arrows and painting the bullseyes around them.

 Flats learn me to ground my feet well on the pedal but I always end up kn clips...yeh you can pick up bad habits on clips, but for me I like my foot in knee place, secure and stable.... Clips win on the power front, not on a static test. Try it on a 4x gate....I suppose its individual preference...find what works for you and stick with it...

 This guy is full of crap with this test, absolute garbage. He does not mention anything about the efficiency on the down stroke versus the up stroke. In other words you simply cannot pull up with as much power on flat pedals.

I used to be a member at the Peak Center for human performance in Ottawa, Ontario, and they have a special test bike that measures how efficient your pedal stroke is, and whether one leg is stronger than the other, and pretty much every other stat under the sun.

You cannot pull up with as much power on the up stroke with flats versus clip less pedals because there was a group of us that tested that very scenario.

The other thing this guy does not mention, is the fact that I dont care how good you are, you will never get your left & right feet lined up on flat pedals, as far as where your foot is on a flat pedal, impossible. They will always be all over the place which will be hard on your knees in the long run.

Everyone talks about Sam Hill, who rides on flats. People forget that he started out as a down hill Pro racer, who graduated to EWS racing, and just kept the flat pedals along the way. He is a great rider without any doubts, but he is the only one that uses flat pedals. 100% of the Cross country Pro's use clip less, 95% of the down hill Pro's use clip less as well including Aaron Gwyn and all the top racers.

 i ride both, clips on the hardtail and flats on the fully. riding clipless on the hardtail feels much better in in ruff terrain, like on steep rooty trails. for training riding techniques like wheelies i also prefer flats. therefore i sometimes swicht to flats in the hardtail as well.

 Too many variables, like terrain, bike, rider style, pedal designs, shoe designs, etc. I feel it really comes down to the riders preference. I have super fast friends on both.

 This shit never ends! Try both then pick whichever you prefer and go have fun riding your bike.

 I rode clips for about 15 years. There is no comparision for fireroad or pavement climbs; clips are just faster; I probably don't know proper flat pedal technique but dropping your heal AND being pulling up on the pedal just let me put down more power while feeling less fatigued. However, after moving to the desert and getting older and slower, I kept having tech climbing crashes where I couldn't unclip fast enough . Which convinced me to try flats and I have saved myself many times by being able to dab faster. Jumping, cornering, descending are even. I'd frequently descend unclipped anyway (learnt clipless riding on Mallets, then ran CB Candies with enough of a platform). If Mallets weren't so heavy they'd be the best of both worlds. Maybe I should stop being a weight weanie....

 What clipless pedal wronged just6979?

 I am committed flat rider for 20+ years now and clips on my roadie. There is no doubt in my mind power wise I am just as efficient. I feel the oval chairing is extremely beneficial as well for flats.

Thanks for the video!

 I ride clipless on road and nothing but flats on mtb. I've timed myself on same sections clipped in and on flats and I'm always faster on flats. For me the efficiency is the negligible but I am way more confident on flats especially in turns. By carrying more corner speed my times are better.

 Mtb-Strength-Factory best video I've seen on here for a long time. I switched over to flats a few years back and have never looked back teaches you how to ride a bike again. Will defo be looking into your other videos and links. Good job

 I just switched to flat pedals after having problems with my feet - bunions etc. Couldn’t find clip shoes that didn’t hurt, and most stores around here out of stock due to COVID. The first ride with flat shoes and pedals sucked. Feet bouncing around, slipping off, no control of bike. But slowly am adapting. Able to clean everything on local trails than could on clips. Even tough uphill roots climbs. Is there a difference? Yes. Clips I can get away with being in wrong gear because I can pull crank through stroke. Flats have to pay attention to gear and keep feet moving. I guess there is some lack of power on climbs but I think this is speaks more to different muscle groups being used. Would I go back? If I could find comfortable pair of clip shoes that I could try on before buying them perhaps. But enjoying the flats for now. However noticed that my Giro soles being eaten away after about 7 rides from pins. At this rate will need new shoes by end of season. In end I am just happy I can keep riding.

 Fun video. I like folks that question things.

I rode spd’s for decades.

Then I became the 50-something guy that is out there on a 20-something-year-old bike in road kit, thinking he knew something that the young punks didn’t.

I was wrong.

I saw I was headed for Curmudgeon status and said F that.

Upgraded my whole scene. Enduro bike, baggies, full face helmet, pads, Fanny Pack (OK I had one on the 90’s like everybody else), and yes, flats.

Just rode a 20-mile 3200’ gain singletrack loop on a bike that I know weighs over 30 pounds, but I don’t know exactly because I swore I would never weigh it, because THATS NOT THE POINT, and it took about 3:38, because for some reason I still care about time.

Felt no ‘loss of efficiency.’

If anything flats are MORE efficient, simply because there’s less faffing about. Get on, get off, no big deal.

Fun to see my thoughts echoed by someone else.

 Seems like the efficiency may just be darn close to the same. Preference is the key here. Clips offer a locked on feel that helps with techy stuff. You can get off the saddle in clips, stay locked into the bike, and let your legs act as a rear suspension, with flats you have to keep legs stiffer and it alters the way you ride over stuff. At the end of the day personal preference. For a hardtail though I think clips are a HUGE advantage on the trail.

 Arent the 510 freeriders alot more flexy (ineficient) in the sole than those clipless shoes?

 I used clipless pedals on my road and mountain bikes for a decade before I got into riding DH bikes. Of course I threw flats on that bike, but my feet flew off ALL the time. Clipless was just second nature. I put SPDs on the DH rig because that was most comfortable. The funny looks from other riders is amusing. Ride what ever works for you! Bikes are fun

 Interesting video, I'm wondering if testing a 30 second or 60 second Wingate and looking at fatigue index might also be a reasonable assessment for the flat vs. clip efficiency conversation. Max power is certainly applicable to mountain biking, but I'm thinking that sustained max power (similar to a punchy hill climb) might be valid. Also curious if you have tested your clip vs. flat FTP?

 Flats for me, use to be clips. Either way I'm still unfit and crap

 Is the difference in the pedals or in the shoes. What would a test look like with a soft flex shoe vs a very stiff flex shoe? I've heard you can use more muscles with a soft flex shoe, but have much less cramping with a stiff flex shoe. If we are speaking purely power transfer from your legs to your crank arms, then it seems to be more of a question of the stiffness of the soles of your shoes than the interface between your shoes and pedals. Food for thought.

 cool experiment! I like flats but im not the guy to test for efficiency, i just ride for fun. The last time i rode clips, Thanks Giving weekend 2015, i broke ribs on a janky blown out corner because i couldn't get my foot down. Months of pain, i do heavy equipment repairs and that winter i was wrestling a bulldozer. Full body workout!

 MTB-Strength-Factory (2 hours ago)
Hey mate, I am very aware that this is not conclusive or representative of MTB, but it is still interesting. I am planning a part 2 out on the trails......

@MTB-Strength-Factory : This.
Good vid! I was wondering how the flats handle the techy steeps, rocky areas where you need to put power into the bike and float the back end to clear stuff with different weight transfers etc...?

 Great test for those who care about efficiency on a stationary bike.

 Five Ten propogate this stuff. They know theres only one choice for footwear for flats All you flat riders try a decent pedalling shoe and youll realise why people ride clips

 I switch back and forth often enough. Typically, I run flats for downhill (bike parks) and will leave them on out of laziness, which causes me to ride my local trails in flats for a while (until I inevitably switch back to clips) . What I find is, our trails in north east Massachusetts are the epitome of slow tech and there’s simply an advantage with clips. They’re generally relentless (punchy steep climbs and constant root/rock tech). Though I can ride it in flats, I get really tired of my feet getting bounced around, inevitably forcing me into uncomfortable foot position. With clips, I maintain my foot placement and keep the power on. I’m also way less apt to concede a climb or tech section.

The one thing we don’t have on our local trails is long downhill sections. I very much dislike clips for that stuff cuz I like to flat foot my pedals (axle almost at mid foot). It’s less tiring since it takes the strain off your calves, and fires your quads/hammies.

I rode the Whole Enchilada back in October and opted for flats. I would’ve been miserable in clips.

With all this said, there have been a lot of flat pedal riders (from my anecdotal experience) that have started riding our trails and ultimately switched to clips. Clips tend to prevail here.

In the end, I don’t think one is specifically better than the other, but I think pedal style application depend on terrain and activity. If I rode front range CO. or North Van all the time, I’d most certainly run flats, but here, it’s just different.

 Rode clips for two decades and transitioned to flats a couple of years ago. I feel like if you're going absolute max effort up or down you get an incremental benefit from clips, but they suck compared to flats in cornering, trials-style technical riding and definitely jumping. Since I'm not a pro don't pay my mortgage by riding my bike, I opt for fun and style over pure speed.

 Flats for me. Always and forever. Bmx. Dj. Trail. Dh. Tooany kinda of bikes to be using a different mount system on each. You do need good shoes and pedals though. $400+ for the set. I've used low budget ones and thrown them out due to grip issues.
What's next anyway. Mx clips? Why don't those guys use them. No climbing obviously but gnarly terrain. They keep their boots on with no stealth rubber or spiked pedals. That's good enough for me. And Sammy obviously. Flattts all the way.

 Used to ride clipped in for a while but now riding with flats for some years.
Flats are definitely more fun as they make bailing out easier + they kinda force you into some good habits. But where I always felt the clips had a huge advantage was when doing explosive accelerations, there you clearly feel the extra power generated from pushing and pulling on those pedals. Pretty clear imo why probably every bmx racer in the world rides with clips.

 Flat rider here ,of course you feel less loose on the static bike being clipped in ,its almost like daahhh ,in a mtb bike you have the tires and suspension to absorb that strength you put in the pedals ,clip for road I understand (not for me any way )cause there is almost like no absorption in that bikes ,not even in the tires ,but I understand the real pro in that matter,but a average rider I just don’t get it ,ok if they have twisted foots ,cause I think the clips will do more harm that flats ,and look at roadies and some mtb riders when they get if their bikes with their clip shoes ,it’s just to hilarious to observe :-))))) ,and when it’s wet :-)))))) ,we make bets for who is the first to slip :-))) , but just ride what you want

 I think this is helpful to a degree but want to see a video or study with a larger number if riders riding the same trails over longer periods of time wearing one of each pedal type.

Compare watts, speed, & biometrics like HR, O2 sat, etc. can also be taken.

Cheers

 Can someone please do a test with a sensor to see how much actual usable continuous contact there is with flat pedals during a real mountain bike ride, maybe an hr long ride, and how much time is spent with less or no pedal pressure. I like riding both ways but I really feel like for continuous pedaling or long rides clips are just so much more efficient over the ride. I have no evidence and I really want to know more about if it’s just perception or not.

Doing this on a stationary bike is useless. This is bro science to the max because you never ever ride like this. There are no controls, the sample size is 1, this is literally meaningless from a scientific perspective.

 I'm all flat pedals on any FS mountain bike except for my hardtails where I use the old strap and cage and clipless pedals on a road bike. The reason I decided to go flats is more for having my foot getting out on gnarly descents and for technical trails. I just feel more confident having the ability to get my foot separated from the pedal without learning to twist out. I have a friend who rides flats and she can beat most people on the long climbs by 1-2kph. She's impressive! On rolling hills, I can give a guy on clipless pedals a run for the money. It definitely took me a good 2 season to get used to going flats. So many painful pedal strikes and scratches from the pins! No, I don't have any hits on my shins but they are pretty scarred up.

 Both! Both are great for different applications. I ride singlespeed quite a bit and clips allow for consistent footing = consistent power output / control as well as conservation of energy, especially climbing and sprinting / however I can do the same on flats (my strava times show within seconds on same segments on either). I think the biggest difference I find is mental energy conservation, flats are easier to relax mentally in technical terrain allowing me to ride faster / clips are easier to mentally relax on long endurance rides allowing me to ride longer. However, this is me and is different for other folks. Some folks can crush regardless like Alexandra Houchin crushing the Tour Divide Women’s record on a singlespeed on flat pedals!

 My experience has been;
Clips are far better in high speed rough terrain, my feet aren't destroyed from my toes naturally trying to curl around the pedals after a hard DH ride on clips,
I am a bit more comfortable leaning the bike further over in flats (appreciating that I normally ride clips now so I'm not very inclined to take my feet off the pedals until I'm actually crashing),
shins are less likely to get wrecked in clips,
clips are a pain the the arse if you want to just go for a hoon then the pub,
repositioning feet constantly is annoying,
I find a set of DX clips and decent Shimano shoes work fine for me, but I need far more expensive flats / shoes (now, used probably be cheaper for flats/shoes) for similar performance.

I have only ridden 5.10 Freeriders impacts recently and would prefer something with less flex, even if it is a bastard to walk around in - that's not why I buy riding shoes. Maybe you can get stiffer soles I feel like I'd be happier on flats with a plastic insert so they almost can't bend then stealth rubber sole.

 Is there a study of a 5 hour ride in off road conditions between a flat and spd? On a stationary bike, there would be the least amount of difference but when you are pedaling over rocky terrain for hours, I bet there would be a difference. Don't most enduro pro riders ride with clips?

Comparing HR at different watts on a short course on a stationary bike is hardly a valid test. SPD's aren't an advantage for some masher for 5 minutes. If there is an advantage, it would be a few percent but those few percent are the difference between first and 10th in a pro field.

Also, if you ever talk to someone who rides with only one arm (one of my colleagues lost his arm in an accident) they will tell you that SPD's turn your pedals into a second "handlebar."

I like the fact that Ben puts a lot of thought into how to get the most out of your biking but this video certainly has a significant bias. He really seems to want the flats to be just as good. Unfortunately, they probably aren't and that's why most pro's don't use them.

 Ride SPD's myself but did a year and a half on Flats for technique purposes. Found that I prefer SPD's in chunky tech and tech climbing. Flats it was not consistent in pedal placement, foot blowing off in chunky sections, eating up flat shoe soles and then the occasional smacking my shin with a spiked pedal. Flats good for goofing around and some technique learning but for general riding - SPD's are my go to. Just like a decent platform with the SPD in case I am in a rough section and my shoe separates, I can still use the platform to get through the section before re-clipping and continuing. The main thing with SPD's is just being rehearsed enough in the bailing from them so if you need to bail - you aren't panicking about foot release.

 I ride clipless and love it. Good pedals make a big difference and to how much float you want. I never have an issue with release when i need out and straight back in. Tried flats once, briefly, and did not like it. Its all about what works best for you and your personal riding style. Like lever position, handlebars, etc. I liked the Vid and second one I have seen from you. They are great and I find them geniune and informative.....thanks

 Imagine if someone came out with a pair of grips that resembled flat pedals, and a pair of gloves that resembled 5-10s and tried to convince everyone it was just as useful as essentially being attached to your bars until you don't want to be.

 I feel like this is a "my dad is stronger than your dad" type of situation. You can be efficient on either it just takes training and everyone has their own opinion. I've used both and I honestly have been riding clipless so long now I can't remember what riding flats was like. I will say I feel like my bunny hop technique has probably suffered since going to clipless but that's just because I got lazy and cheat a little bit.

 Commit a month to each type of pedal on your local trails that you are familiar with. After a month on each, pick whichever you prefer. Terrain and riding styles will make big differences per person. Its also a good idea to check back in with your less preferred option every year or so, just to see if you are missing something. Being able to go back and forth between clips and flats is a pretty good skill to have. I personally ride SPD's for being able to put less mental thought into extra pedal strokes in really rough sections of trail. But do appreciate flats at times also. The one thing that irritates me is people who try spds with soft/flexy soled SPD shoes. Floppy shoes on SPD's are miserable. Stiff shoes for SPD's and conforming grippy shoes for flats please!

 Awesome video! I run both, Spd's and Yoshimura flats. Torn between the two as a Enduro racer. In a nutshell I think it's good for the brain switching between the two. And even better to train the younguns on flats first! Have an awesome day thanks for the rad vid!!

 Low cadence and high torque is were clips are far superior. As soon as the cadence goes up you loose the ability to "multi task" the muscle recruitment and you just push down. This is why sprinting is so much faster on clips, you dont stand up and sprint with a high cadence.


For downhill I would argue that if you do 100 runs on both types and have been ridng both extensively and dont feel scared or hampered by either you most likely will find that

1 Flats have the biggest variance in times but most likely the fastest run.

2 Clips have very consistent fast times but not that "super run".

So Clips are good for racing since there you need to not only lay down a fast run but it has to be "that" run. So Clips with a more consistent average will be better to get "that" run as fast as possible.



It also depends alot on if you ride a hardtail or fs, smaller chatter really gets annoying on a hardtail if you ride flats. When you are knackered and need to pedal through some rocks Clips are way way more easy to just continue pedaling with.



The overall difference between the types for the average Joe is probably negible compared to him actually praticing more on one type and improve his overall ability.

 Who rides clipless because of efficiency? Those who don't know the mathematic meaning of the word efficiency.
Torque * RPM = Power
Power out / Power in = efficiency

I ride clipless because of usefulness: stability and acceleration. As mentioned during the video, power build-up is faster on clipless. When climbing steep technical stuff, this is what you need.: higher torque at lower RPM. You get more power so more acceleration. And sometimes an heart attack.

 clips are scary on gnarly stuff (to me) I don't care about efficiency, I'll get to the top when I get to the top.. I just want to have fun descending and not having to think about maybe crashing and not being able to unclip fast enough, or bailing mid air on a jump or drop.. I used to ride clips and had a couple of crashes were I wasn't able to unclip because that crashes were so fast and unexpected that after that, that was always in the back of my mind while descending.. that went away when I switched to flats.. so flats for me the climb is just something I have to do in order for me to treat myself with with a descent.

 Thanks Ben for the video and little bit more analysis.
Bike James has covered a lot of this Too, and James adds a little more context which matters.
Depending on what you’re trying to do, James feels flat pedals offer a lot of benefit.

First, ride whatever you like. This is not about “right or wrong” or “better or worse”. It’s about Pros’s and Con’s. And I will say that when I talk about flat pedals, I mean GOOD flat pedals with sharp pins and a full-flat soled like a 5:10 or Shimano.

As an instructor, I started on flats last year after 20 years on spd’s so that I could understand my clients better. Now I ride flats most of the time. Here is my blog post for those who are interested (update soon):
www.rideottawa.com/blogs/news/what-i-have-learned-switching-from-clipless-to-flat-pedals

I will try to add a few points for consideration to this discussion:

1. Flat shoes are more comfortable. Modern thin, wide, flat pedals offer a lot of area to push on when you pedals and most riders don’t need overly stiff shoes for good performance. Many flat shoes have added width and softer materials making them way more comfortable for all-day riding. For the average recreational rider this is a plus.


2. Flats are safer. When you crash, get bumped around, try to learn how to wheelie and manual. Flat pedals make it easier to put your feet down on ground, especially if you loop out backwards while trying to manual. When you crash and your clips don’t release, you risk injury in your joints and feet. They are simply safer.


3. Flats promote better pressure control and bike preloading. Riders who are clipped in will always “hop” when executing wheel lifts and jumps. I’m not saying this is entirely bad, but most riders need to learn good techniques to compress and preload suspension through the cranks using primarily their legs.


4. Flats change and improve timing skills. Timing is the pinnacle of the MTB skills pyramid. (bit.ly/PMBIA-Skills-Pyramid) Refining your skills on flats will help you to more fully develop skills and maneuvers without resorting to secondary moves like lifting with your legs instead of preloading. Learning to ratchet your pedals to get your power foot ready at 1pm is a good skill for many rides to practice. On clipless pedals, you can often get away with poor timing on a step up by pulling your pedal up using your shoes, but ideally you know more than one way to recover in that situation. 


5. Flats allow for great range of motion. Maximizing your balance to be stable on the bike requires lateral, horizontal and vertical motion. Cornering like a pro requires rotational movement. When you are clipped in, you have less range of movement. Not necessarily a problem, but more movement can be a better thing. For example, to create substantial rational pressure it is helpful to actual rotate your feet on the pedals to increase your lateral movement. 


6. Clipless pedals ARE more efficient. Contrary to legend, pulling up with your calves does not increase pedal power. Creating strong power comes primarily from your quads, and maximizing this physical motion is the key to a strong pedal stroke. This is exactly the same for flats and clipless pedals. BUT, as was pointed out in the video, maintaining stable foot placement at super high cadence is a skill on flat pedals and takes some level of effort and control. Clipless pedals allow experienced riders to relax some muscles during the pedal stroke, which saves some amount of energy and can allow for active muscle recovery. Don’t misunderstand this benefit; I would argue that most riders DO NOT have a good pedal stroke, and clipless laziness makes it worse, not better.


7. Clipless pedals can save your ass. Sometimes being locked in is a good thing. I find clipless pedals have saved me from crashing after some poorly timed jumps, missed step-ups and tall log hops. These days I usually run the springs at mid range and not too tight. While clipless pedals feel very secure to some riders, being locked on your pedals should not be mistaken for improved stability. Stability comes from the ability to manage the forces exerted on you and your bike from the trail, using movement of your body and the bike to counter the instability.


Both types of pedals exist because each offers something better, sometimes, for some people. The main challenge with this type of analysis is that it doesn’t take into account the very diverse nature of MTB riding and different rider requirements. Some people ride flat, smooth trails, some people DH on crazy rough stuff. The necessary, efficient and optimum techniques are different and there is some variability in required skills and techniques. A 15 second 1500 watt sprint at 120pm is not very common on the trail. Riding at 95% FTP is a good target for XC racers, but most recreational “Enduro” riders probably don’t even hit 75% FTP when they ride.

If you want to understand the WHY about torque, cadence and pedalling, start here:
www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/torque.htm
www.flammerouge.je/factsheets/cadence.htm

 MTB-Strength-Factory ...so you fall off twice just trying to sprint/put in some power on a stationary bike that's not moving or bouncing over rocks and roots and you still don't see the disadvantage? At this point I would recommend you put out a 10 second video statement saying you like flats better. Simple. Some do some don't.. its okay.

 @MTB-Strength-Factory, would be interested to do again the opposite way. With a dedicated clips rider moving to flats for a similar test. I think with you being flat orientated there may be less of a difference than if you where clip orientated. I ride clip and also pull up as well as push down. Especially when sprinting. Something you can’t do when on flats.
I’m short flat orientated moving to clips may not make huge differences due to riding style, however clip riders loosing the ability to pull up would (in theory) make a huge differance?

 I think in the tests where clipless did not show measurable improvements was for a couple of different reasons. First, the riders were using the same technique they use with flats when using clipless. Different technique has to be used for clipless to be more efficient. Second, was most of the tests I have seen were much too short. Only a few minutes. I think they have to have long tests where using different muscle groups and fatigue is a factor. For flat out sprints, clipless is the clear winner for pedal security and not to slip a pedal. That is why all BMX racers using clipless. For downhills, flats and clipless is debatable.

 Even if there is some minute advantage with clipless there are several good reasons to ride flats instead. For me they are freedom, safety, and knee health. I also find cornering with clipless to be more difficult. Maybe that is because my feet are locked in and I can't rotate my hips the way I want to. And when you come unclipped by mistake and you have to reclip it's a much more precarious and difficult situation than the occasional need to reposition with flats.

 I prefer using flats because I when it comes to accidental dismounts just being able to fly off the platform has saved me from some serious slams.

 I've been on the James Wilson mailing list for years. No number of people on the trail will ever be able to convince me of the opposite now. That said, I don't recall ever having been bothered by anyone with the efficiency of the kind of pedals I happen to run. Like, out of all things you can talk about with people you meet on the trail, why would anyone even bother discussing someone else's pedal choice? Save that for the PB comment section .

 Very nice comparative experiments, thanks. Some tweaking of the experimental design and application of appropriate statistics would thoroughly elucidate your investigation. I am a professor of Biomedical, Biological and Chemical Engineering. I would be glad to help you with this. What's in it for me? We could also publish the results in the Journal of Exercise Physiology. That's how faculty keep score. Also, I always take advantage of opportunities for overlap between my vocation and my avocation.

 I stopped using clipless after accidentally unclipping a few times in mid-air. Been riding flats with 5.10s ever since.

 Clipped in or flats, I ride both. For me, I feel like clipped re-enforces bad technique where flats force technique. Both have their place and neither is right or wrong.

 Switched back to clips recently after 20 years on flats for no other reason that I'm sick and tired of flat shoes that fall apart or fall short of their claims. Actually quite enjoying the planted feeling.

 Pick a pedal and be a dick about it

 Ride both. Avid cyclist 110% clipped. Makes sense to spin efficient circles up and down on smooth asphalt, to constantly be putting power down; be fast.. I've seen too many of my friends crash suddenly mtb and only get one foot out and the carnage that ensues afterwards. To me flats when I mtb are an instant eject button. I'm not trying to be efficient while mtb and trust me, I can ride a mtb and am faster than most in my area. I'm fast enough and love knowing if something suddenly happens while riding mtb, the bike and myself are separated instantly. I ride Loaded Components flats with Vaude AM Moab Mids and have zero issues. Just this morning shit got real so fast and immediately jumped off the bike. The bike suffered (just paint), but I didn't.

 video proved exactly what I had thought - riding flats or clips hard is exhausting

 Not one single pro XC rider, Roadie, CX rider, and even most downhiller's use flats enough said. Absolute nonsense.

 great vid.....if tried clips but prefer flats with the right pedal and shoe combo that is.

 Cool video. Results were much closer that I would have expected. I would even expect a control point at zero watts could have a few BPM variation over a few days or weeks.
I ride flats 98% of the time. I don't think there is any difference in power I can put down to the wheels. I mean, I'm still the same person putting the power down either way. I just find flats more comfortable because I can reposition my feet for different terrain or to use slightly different muscles on longer rides.
Plus there is nothing scarier to me than unclipping mid air. I could never get my SPDs cranked down tight enough, so those got moved over to my gravel crusher. 5.10s and some grippy pedals are my go-to.

 Any links available for the studies he mentions showing a clipless pedal rider moving to flats and losing efficiency? Every test I've seen cited shows zero efficiency difference between clips and flats...

 put a power meter on your bike and do the test again pedaling along a rooty trail

 If you watch Friday Fails every week you will notice everyone is on flats and using a dropper.............That's why I use neither.....

 The only problem i have with clips is some of my friends that shouldn't be on them, if it mess up your confidence in steep technical terrain then you should ride flats pedals

 That's a loud ass bike trainer thing, sounds like you are in a coal factory. I'd be having a conversation with you if you were my neighbor. Flats for life here

 Clipped in on a climb when you drop you heels is torque city!

 Crocs FTW!

 Who cars. Just ride what you like and fuck em all.

 Flats Forever!
=using your positioning and legs properly
=pre loading for jumps correctly.
efficiency pfffft!

 We're biting on the bait aren't we? First, it's about the same so it's really just personal preference and technique. I'm all in for flats, but I have spent time riding trials, street, DH and that results in a certain set of flat pedal skills (proper bunny hop and the like). I can nail technical climbs on flats that most riders in my local area can't clear any which way.

There are times when I have installed clipless pedals for one-off XC rides, because I had spent a few years riding clipless a long time ago. It totally sucked, sure you can pull the bike up but that micro bit of loose float lacks the surety of pins. For pedal strokes, the muscles that pull up are small in comparison to quads/glutes, they don't help much and are easily overwhelmed. For pounding out the power over a long day you just have to rely on the big muscles.

Sprinting on a stationary bike with flats? Gotta have the resistance WAY up because with any bit of underpowered spin your foot will lose contact with the pedal. Absolutely, done it many times at the gym. Because the bike/pedal path is invariable you have to adjust your technique where your upper body provides motion and adjustment, which is the opposite to a real bike.

 A simple "yes" or "no" would've been sufficient...

 Flats are better for me, not because of efficiency or cool factor, but because I need something to help bail me out and eject when I get in over my skill level (aka all the time)

 I like clips I like flats I like riding my bike

 If you want to be a great rider start as a 5 and under novice.

 I were Five Ten Freeriders and my shoes aren’t tied up to tight to allow float inside the shoe. Takes more skill to ride flats Period!!

 your thoughts in conjunction with the likes of the pedalling innovations catalyst pedal would be interesting.

 FLATS ARE SAFER, CLIPS ARE MORE EFFICIENT.

 Flats for mountain and leisurely riding. Clips for when I'm in roadie mode which hasn't been very often lately.

 Flats: biomechanics, knees.
There's really no question about its superiority in the long run.

 So flat pedals and 27.5 wheels for the win, awesome to know I’m already in the flow !

 The main advantage of clipless is that you can go on when you lose one leg halfway your ride!

 Agree - flats for life. The only way to fly for me. Clipped in riders may not agree but that's ok.

 Flat pedal crashes are worse than clips.Flat riders catapult through space!

 This is garbage!

 Thanks ! flat fan over here, glad to see some data to back up the vibes.

 But I do prefer clips when riding the single speed.

 Speak to anyone on the trails and they will tell you that?

 Another really interesting video answering the age old question of Flats Vs Clips ????

 Sam Hill !

 Can’t do no footers in clips so all arguments are null and void.

 Flats all the way!!

 Tumbling down a hill with my bike connected to my feet? No thanks. Do people cable tie their hands to their bars also? Flats no question.

 Flat petals for life! Thanks for the video this is awesome