Video: Brooke Goudy on Removing Barriers & Why Representation Matters

 “Expensive bikes, transportation to trailheads, and finding a community of people to learn to ride with are just the tip of the iceberg.“

Are those racial/gender barriers or economic barriers?

 @Kevindhansen: It would be impossible for those to be related, right?

 @Kevindhansen: Race is used as a distraction from Economic issues -> precisely by dividing people economically and culturally and having them bicker instead of uniting. So to answer your question: BOTH, obviously.

 Showing up to the bottom of the article to watch pinkbike commenters demonstrating the problem

 100% did the same, expecting the worst, very glad to see this comment right up there, you said it so well and the props show it's not all so bad here.

 @Kevindhansen: Economic that fall heavily on racial lines.

 Here's a crazy idea. When someone of a different race/gender/economic situation/etc. says something was a challenge for them how about we just listen, be kind, and supportive? It's really not that hard. One of my favourite quotes I've ever come across was from a Jon Ronson book and it said (paraphrased) "one of the most fundamental mistakes we make as humans is assuming everyone else is basically just like us."

 @Kevindhansen: arguably both

 @Kevindhansen: Yeah, it's exactly the same!

You're a red nose away from having the full clown outfit on at this point.

 I saw the head tube badge and applauded Pinkbike for picking up this article and raising awareness of the bias and barriers in the American Dental Association.

 @dontcoast: 100% this

 @Kevindhansen: Those barriers are indeed economic. And the largest, by far, racial demographic of poor Americans is White (50% of impoverished Americans are White)

 @Kevindhansen: look up the term "redlining". It was the US federal government's formal, lawful policy to define what neighborhoods were eligible for insurance and mortgages. I'll give you one guess what kind of neighborhoods we're deemed undesirable for investment.

 @teddancin: Redlining has nothing to do with Kevin's point: poor people will have similarly tough times purchasing a mountain bike regardless of color or gender.

 @adamdigby: Also, the unaffordable argument, as many of shown a ton of times in PB comment section, is grossly overstated. Most people who make the argument that MTB is uniquely unaffordable are projecting their own standards, as experienced mtb’rs, on everyone else. Covid/inflationary market aside, almost every major mtb company has a $500-600 entry level hardtail price point. That’s not universally affordable, but utterly reasonable and fair. And there’s plenty of sports with excellent POC representation which spend way more than $500 on avg annually.

 @adamdigby: proximity to trails and wealth has everything to do with redlining... that's exactly what it is. Fun fact about redlined neighborhoods: since the civil rights movement of the 60s made it easier for affluent of middle class black people to move out of those redlined neighborhood into wealthier and whiter areas, indicators of poverty have gotten worse in those poor neighborhoods that were created with government policy. Pre 60s civil rights, wealthy black people kept their wealth and taxes in those areas. Now? Not so much.

 @burnermtb: Poop

 At my trails in Goodyear, AZ, I see more people of color than white people, by a lot.

 @Evansmtbsaga: also on my trails, tons of women these days, some days it’s roughly 50%. It’s weird b/c I’m not seeing the roving gangs of angry men to kick them out either. Guess I’m just going on the wrong day.

 @teddancin: more whites lived in redlined districts than blacks. Fact. Make of it what you will

 @VelkePivo: in my reading, I found the same thing. When the practice was started in 1935, those neighborhoods were minority black. As the years went by, white people were given mortgage loans through things like the GI Bill (which was denied to black GIs) and were able to move out into the suburbs. This concentrated the black population and reinforced the patterns of disinvestment. Its policies like this that created systemic racism. Here's another fun one: did you know farm workers were excluded from the 1935 Social Security act because FDR couldn't convince souther politicians to vote for it because they didn't want the largely black labor force to benefit. The New Deal was great if you were a white person.

 @hitchhikerbikes:

 @Kevindhansen: they're one and the same in the US. If you don't know, now you know.

 @BikesNRussets: I appreciate you putting aside the disagreement to analyze the situation. It's rare today. Thank you, I mean it.

 @Kevindhansen: in response to second reply, is "finding a community of people to learn to ride with" an economic barrier?

 @hitchhikerbikes - wait a sec - you are from Stowe and your shop logo is a take off of steal your face? I'm not saying you specifically but I've seen exclusion of people without green tags. I certainly do not agree with the comments of "propaganda" or "tired of this stuff" but there is a lot more to riding bikes than what you all have in Stowe, Boulder, MT, BC etc. How about the stuff Todd Lyons and SE has been doing? (I'm not so into riding into traffic but its great to see kids of all backgrounds riding bikes and getting some great bike handling skills.)

Come down to the NY/NJ/Philly area and there are plenty of places that have public transportation to trailheads/riding areas. Look up Mullaly BMX park and the positive stuff they are doing. Also spots like Cunningham, Highbridge and Philly Pump track. Our local stuff in NJ can be accessed by boat or train (and a few mile pedal) from NYC/North Jersey. And there is a great shop not far from us called Second Life Bikes that has helped many get a decent bike for little cost.

But if you come down make sure not to Vermont Jersey.

 @hitchhikerbikes I agree. I appreciate that what I write might please neither camps. Those who arguee "the trees do not discriminate" are correct: there are no apartheid-style signs at the trailhead and I doubt there is a burning cross and klan rally going on in the car park. In this respect, there is nothing actively preventing initial involvement in the sport.

At the same time, any activity that invariably involves people grouping together can tap into human dynamics of inclusion and exclusion, even if passively or unconsciously expressed. For example, I am fortunate to have a pedal pass for Bikepark Wales, and so regularly pass new riders, frequently family groups, heading up the climb. It is clearly a daunting experience for some as on arrival, you are confronted by a world of specialist knowledge and complex kit. When you get to the top, the experience can be quite jolting for these groups: large groups of guys dripping with bravado, boasting about kit, loudly using language that isn't really suitable for a family environment, and due to the lack of toilets at the top, sometimes literally with their d*cks in their hands.

I am absolutely certain none of those guys have any desire to exclude family groups, women or POC from the sport, but you can see parents and kids looking visibly uncomfortable or intimidated by it. I really try to make a point of going over and chatting with families to try to balance out this impression; I really hope this won't be their first and last visit.

I guess what I am trying to say in a really unclear, unconcise way is that although I am sure no one actively discriminates in the sport, we do need to be mindful of how those of us already in the sport might make it seem unwelcoming to new comers, making them feel like outsiders.

 @defconfour: Nice job doing some creeping on me. I hope you make it into the shop if you ever come up to VT. As a Grateful Dead fan I thought the Stealie design was fun. It's not my logo, it's just on stickers and a water bottle. I think I am probably the 10,000th person to rip it off, very unoriginal, I know. I'm not sure I follow what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting I move so that I can see that some communities do actually trailheads within pedaling distance of cities or bike friendly transportation? As I mentioned originally, that is just tiny part of the overall issue here. I think a lot of people who are offended by this discussion are just refusing to be an active and constructive part of it.

 @friendlyfoe: word!

 @Baller7756: If your number is correct, 50% of poor Americans are white but over 60% of all Americans are white so any individual white person is far less likely to be impoverished than people of other races.

19.5% of black Americans live in poverty, only 8.2% of white Americans live in poverty.

 @Evansmtbsaga: Live in Texas and can concur. Lot's of POC on the trails here.

 @friendlyfoe: Can't upvote more than once so feel compelled to comment. Some guy by last name of Einstein said "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." Go beyond your knowledge and imagine others have lived a different experience. A lack of empathy concerning a plight different than your lived experience is the lazy way out of any real discussion. Empathy is not propaganda.

 @Patrick9-32: So… where to you think our efforts would be more effective? Just focusing on the 7 million all the time, or also including the 30 million in the conversation?

 @hitchhikerbikes: one click to your PB page is creeping? I'm not a local but I've been riding bikes in Stowe since '94 when it was a lot of old Jeep trails and a mishmash trail network. So actually 2 clicks - one to your PB page and another to your bike shop page.

I don't mind the Dead and the Steal your Face is an iconic logo (and this will sound shitty) but I just thought it was funny that you use it after reading your post. And it might just be me that thinks that.

I'm certainly not suggesting moving as Stowe is a beautiful place but maybe check out some other facets of bike riding in non-epic mountain bike areas. Make a trip to the NYC and explore. Or Miami, FL. I find the harder it is to have great riding terrain the more interesting the local riders are. At the very least check out pictures of Mullaly (I think there is a great podcast of the guy that runs it) and the work Dirty Meastro has done at Cunnigham in LI

So what can be done?

I grew up racing BMX and in the 80's there were a good amount of really good BMX riders that were black. Not sure if you know of Anthony Sewell or Darrel Young but they invented/perfected 2 of the most stylish moves on a bike - the tuck no hander and seat grab. I think any bike shop with pictures of those 2 icons would be a nice addition. Bike riding for me wouldn't be the same for me without their influences even though it was just a picture in a magazine. And add some super rad females to that list - Cherri Elliot oozed style and speed on her Skyway (her table x ups on white TA frame with black Graphites - OMG!). So many riders have gone from bmx to mtb so many looking at the BMX past might be a good thing? BMX wouldn't be were it is without the shear power and force racing style of Shawn Texas, the style of Shaun Butler, the entertainment and entrepreneurship of Craig Reynolds.

I feel BMX is a great entry point for bike riding in general for so many types of people. The bikes are cheap and simple, you can ride whatever clothes (just have a good helmet and no need for designer jorts) and a really fun pump/jump track can be made in any 1 acre space. It teaches kids the right skills and a layout of a spot promotes working together and communicating not just riding. I actually helped build a small setup during 2019/2020 and made a pump track for the local kids some of them POC (which I f*cking hate that I feel I need to add that - a rider should just be a rider). The damn pump line was way more work than our 2 bigger jump lines but the kids loved it. During Covid it blew up as everything closed and bicycles were the only outlet for the local kids. It got plowed by the town in June 2020 (I actually found out about it driving back from Stowe).

I'm now volunteering for the local parks system working on erosion issues on local trails and hopefully showcasing our skills to the right person and getting their ear as why there should be a pump/jump track in the park system. I actually think there should be a pump/jump track where ever there is a basketball court or baseball diamond but maybe we can build up to that.

I'd love to stop in next time I'm in Stowe. You look like you have some great products (love Chromag) and would be cool to talk about bikes and how fun they are. Likewise if you find yourself in Jersey LMK

 @friendlyfoe: thanks for stating this, needed to be said.

Actively listening to what folks of color might be asking for, trying it on, and seeing if it impacts those folk's enjoyment of the outdoors will be a hugely constructive learning experience for so many of us. Biking is so friggin rad, it's really exciting to be seeing more of these stories and learning what we need to do to make that radness available for every person who wants to access & experience it.

 @Kevindhansen: Black people in America are 2.5x more in poverty than whites. If you don't have $$$ or a car, you aren't mountain biking. If you believe that opportunities are equal here, or ignoring data that shows poverty begets poverty, then you're attributing poverty/economic pitfalls to a whole race of people being dumb or lazy? Or you can attribute poverty to a generational economic onslaught on a whole race of people since the inception of this country.

 @monkies: I didn’t say either of those things. I just asked if the barriers to mountain biking are economic or racial. It sounds like everyone on here, on either side, agrees that it’s economic but that the economic barriers are caused by systemic racism. Which still means that there are no racial barriers to mountain biking. If we can solve the socioeconomic status problem that previous generations created there would be no barriers to POC (or any race) to start mountain biking.

 @Kevindhansen: I wouldn't say "no racial barriers"...probably depends on the cultural geography - I would NOT be surprised if in some riding areas, one might encounter overt racism on the trail

However I agree that the primary barrier is economic.

 @dontcoast: fair enough, unfortunately there are still some people that are just awful humans

 @Kevindhansen: oh i hear you they're everywhere eep

 As a "real" person of color and not a simp, I'm letting you know you are doing a great job of mashing up interest, expense, and oppression. This kind of thing (muddying the waters) works when what you are trying to do is tug on the readers emotions, but if you were in my English class (I'm NOT an teacher btw) you'd get an F AND a spanking for your attempt to mis-lead.

The individual problems of cost and oppression are indeed real problems, but don't apply to black people being in the sport directly. The biggest reason that blacks aren't in the sport is because blacks aren't interested. Period! There are plenty of black people with enough money to be in the sport so that's not it. And there are no Democrats in their "real form" wearing white robes and stopping black people before they even get near the mountain.

Just so we are clear, you're not speaking for me. And as a person that admits to never having "felt any sort of oppression" you should stop simping for others. You can't begin to understand the things I've not said in regards to being black amongst black people so you'll never understand how that has a far greater affect in regards to the numbers that are mountain biking.

 @JPostuk: well said!

 @Rance: well put

 Being POC too, let's just share some cents. I never looked at what I can do or become from what someone successful in the field looks like. Only slight exception may have been that I have been a death metal fan since the 90's and well, big hair that just grows to the sides instead of down just doesn't quite feel the same when headbanging. Yet even though I would never look like my hero Chuck Schuldiner, I also knew that he was the last one in the world to give a shit what someone looks like so it didn't bother me too much. But as for riding bikes. First of all, I live in The Netherlands. Everyone rides bikes. It is not a matter of rich, poor or status. With that out of the way, riding bikes for sports/recreation takes special gear and special gear costs money. So yeah, by the age of 21 I had saved up enough to buy the gear and get into this thing and yes of course if I would have had more money earlier I would have started earlier. But how would I be bothered by this? You just grow up knowing that you can buy expensive non-essential items (yeah, sorry) by the time you work and make enough excess money to save up for them. I don't see how that wouldn't make sense. Sure, gear we see now can be more expensive than ever. But for those of us who started back when I did, what were you riding? V-brakes whose performance depended on the amount of dirt on your rims. Either an elastomer suspension fork whose stiffness depended on the ambient temperature or a coil sprung fork without any damping. They may seem shitty if we look back on them now, but weren't you just having a f*cking blast back then? Obviously bummed when you did get in trouble but also stoked when you just got away with it. Even if you're getting the cheaper gear now, you're still getting hydraulic disc brakes and adjustable suspension forks with oil damping. How would someone new to the sport and getting one of those not be at least as stoked as you were back then?

As for the social part, if people are unfriendly for whatever reason then they aren't the people you don't want to be with anyway. Whether their reason is racist or not, if they're unfriendly you just move on. But honestly I don't recall having such an encounter with a mountainbiker. Some people are in a hurry, some people are just plain boring, but I've don't recall having met a mountainbiker who was unfriendly for no apparent reason.

In a broader context, my oldest daughter (11yo) is into gymnastics. She tried soccer for a year but quit. Not because she's a girl and would have felt uncomfortable. It's just that because of the covid regulations the whole team-feel went out of the window and she felt a bit lost. She's happy with gymnastics now and is now training in the "selection group" which is preparing her for contests. There are also two entry level groups on a different day which are explicitly described as for girls. There is no boys alternative. This struck me as odd. What if you're a boy and are interested in the sport? The description for the entry level group clearly states you're unwelcome and obviously you can't start in the selection group if you're new to the sport. I understand that there are different exercises in competition but you'd say the entry to the sport could be more inclusive.

So yeah, if a trailhead sign would say "for white male only" or something similar to the approach in that gymnastics club then it may be reason to scratch our heads a little. But how you limit yourself in who can be your role model is a limit you impose upon yourself. Ever since Anneke Beerten left the successful B1 team and worked so hard and clever to make a living in the sport, she's been a role model for me. She's white, she's a woman, I'm neither. So what?

 @vinay: @NorCal530 thank you!

 @vinay: Props for having great taste in death metal. I still fondly remember the ‘Human’ tour vividly.

 @bchampig: Cheers, I think I only got to know them after Individual Thought Patterns though I was instantly hooked. Chuck gave his band a lot of freedom to use their qualities rather than to fit in a mold and it shows. The freedom Steve and Gene (bass and drums) got clearly shows throughout that album whereas you only get to see a glimpse of that in their current band (Testament). But yeah, similarly with Paul Masdival and Sean Reinert (RIP) on the Human album. Have you seen the dvd? I recall the interview with Sean "Oh, these drum parts are played like that? Ok, this is how I play." and that's what he did, both of them putting an amazing stamp on what I love about that band. I still feel a huge connection to Chuck and in a way he shaped me to who I am. Don't waste your time on preconceptions of others as you alone decide who you are and what you want to become. Which, in a way, brings us back to the context of this article .

 @vinay: Cheers. I didn't know much about them when I went to that first Human show. In fact I was there to see a different band..can't remember who. Anyway, from the opening tune I was blown away by Reinert and was a fan ever since and got into the various projects (Cynic, Gordian Knot, etc.). I did see the documentary on the band...it was great. I saw so many metal bands back in the day, and Death and Morbid Angel were the standouts. I've always been a prog rock guy, but I do enjoy some crushing death metal on the side As for the original topic, I just try to treat everyone respectfully without looking through a prism.

 @bchampig: Yeah, my taste is all over the place though primarily in death metal. Mostly because as a teen I felt these bands were addressing issues that no one else seemed to care about at the time, so in a way it felt comforting that they did. The environment (Obituary), animal welfare (Carcass), social injustice (Terrorizer and Napalm Death), discrimination/intimidation (Morbid Angel, Altar). It felt like there was so much internalized injustice in the world and no one seemed to care, except for these bands who seemed genuinely upset. But it was Death primarily who struck a more emotional chord with me. Not just because they addressed all issues mentioned above, but also because because how they played with the musical diversity and contrasts (staccato or flowy, aggressive or mellow, fast or slow, straight or syncopated) rather than pick a mode and stick with it. So yeah, overall it just felt like Chuck expressed how I felt, which is important at that age. It was later that I happened to listen to a bit of jazz when it struck me that that particular artist exploited the same freedom I heard in the Death guitar solos so I learned to appreciate that too. So nowadays I love it it if a tune covers different genres, that it can't be pinned down to one particular subgenre. Not saying I don't appreciate a bit of old school death metal too anymore. I will always need that too in life.

 Thank you for this. As an Asian who have riden in countries most consider majority white, I've never encountered barriers that would stop me from enjoying riding. The truth is, the only barriers are the ones we place ourselves be it motivation or our lack of enthusiasm about this amazing sport and community. I also believe that citing the costs of the sport is a red herring placed by people with their own agendas. I can enjoy a ride in a $300 HT just as much if I'm riding a more expensive stumpjumper. Again, the barriers are the ones we place ourselves.

 If you're a POC...curious what your experiences have been like? Maybe being in CA where it's so diverse my experience could be vastly different than someone else's? I don't want to assume anything so wanting to learn what POC's go through in other parts of the US/world. Thanks to those who already shared!

 Thanks for sharing your honest perspective on this. From reading comments in this thread and from other similar articles I think there is conflation of several issues. The main messages I got from Brook Goudy's video wasn't that there are racist people/attitudes to be overcome, nor that POC have higher barriers to entry than others, but rather that [a] greater representation is encouraged when you see people 'like you' doing something, and you can (if you want) take a more proactive approach to getting people out on the trails.

On point [a], it's just a general trend, not rule, so it's reasonable to expect some people to experience no barriers to entry (sounds like that's your experience). And perhaps now that you're in the sport, POC might see you on your bike and maybe they'll be curious about trying it out, in way they might not if they only saw white people on mountain bikes.

If I flip this the other way round: As a white guy, if I lived in a city with a bunch of public volleyball courts, and I only ever saw 2 white people playing volleyball, then volleyball likely wouldn't be the first activity I think about if I wanted to take up a new active hobby. Doesn't mean I couldn't, doesn't mean I think those volleyball players are racist, wouldn't ruin my life, and hopefully it doesn't make it seem like I'm a racist myself. It's not like I'd be 'actively rejecting' volleyball, it's just a thing that would be less likely to come to mind.

To be clear: I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. Just joining the conversation you started!

 @MuddyBrit: Thanks for your input. Makes me wonder though, what is it that makes people think that you need to look like someone to be able to do the same as him or her? Apparently it is a thing for you and hopefully it has become clear that it isn't for me. A white woman (Anneke Beerten) is my inspiration on the mountainbike, the music of a white man (Chuck Schuldiner) comes closest to my heart. If you go back to your days as a little kid, riding your bike on a dirt road it was easy to imagine yourself a great MX rider even though you looked nothing like him or her either. What got in the way since? Most of the time nowadays, when you see a fully kitted out DH racer shredding, you can't even see the skin. How can't you imagine yourself become someone like that if you think you like the feel of speed and airtime?

 @vinay: I was trying to make the point that people don't THINK they need to look like someone, but that maybe on a subconscious level it makes a difference when you're exposed to more images/experiences of seeing who is doing what activities.

I'm a white guy in a majority-white region of a majority-white country, so I can't speak from personal experience here. I'm just doing my best to understand what people like Brooke Goudy mean when they say something like 'as a little girl, I didn't see myself being one of those riders'. And I'm happy to be proved wrong and make some mistakes as I try to learn to more empathetic about race issues.

 @incapacidade: What definition of "racist" are you using, and how does my post tell you that?

 @MuddyBrit: Fair point. I would counter argue the same about being Asian and nobody being a pioneer or an advocate to show me it's ok to play Baseball, Football, Basketball. I never thought to myself that I shouldn't or don't belong playing those sports and that I needed someone of my color to show me it's ok. I did it because I wanted to do it and every sport I ever played, everyone was supportive.

My takeaway from Brook is that she would like to have seen someone like her on the trail when she was younger. Totally fine, I get it. That's more about building awareness, right? When you start saying things like representation, you start making it a racial issue.

 @MuddyBrit: Yeah, I understand that it is subconscious. I'm just asking you (and others who feel the same) to try and identify where it comes from. As clearly for you, Brooke and others it matters (and therefore it is relevant) whereas apparently for @almacigatrailrider, @norcal530, me and others don't feel it quite like that. So maybe if someone could identify where it comes from, that could be the first step to actually solve it.

 @MuddyBrit: I think he was referring to the, if black people are doing something then you don’t want to do it too because they are black and not white like you. That was the racist part. You let the race of the participants be your primary filter, that’s racism.

 @Kevindhansen: So, from that perspective, wouldn't it be just as racist if POC would choose not to participate in an activity because they see too many white people? I don't know. I feel racist is such a heavy term that using it too quickly gets in the way of further communication and tracing and solving the actual issue in the first place.

 @vinay: yes that would be racist. Making decisions based on race is racist.

 Are you suggesting that some people would feel "oppressed" by seeing a POC mountain biking? Where are these people?

 @burnermtb: Scroll down bub

 To clarify, Brooke is privileged (she's riding an expensive mountain bike after all) and yet her victim-hood mentality makes her feel oppressed?

 @Velowebby: Or maybe she's economically privileged and racially oppressed? You can be privileged in one way and oppressed in another, this basically is what people mean when they talk about intersectionality.

 @JPostuk: Racially oppressed how exactly? Is there someone stopping her from riding her bike in the mountains because of her skin colour? She's not privileged in anyway. I'm sure she worked hard for the money to purchase a mountain bike just like all of us.

 @JPostuk: I have a firm grasp on reality; a reality that sees no validity in a race hustling ideology which purports, with great religious fervour, racism is an original sin.

 @lefthandohvhater: not seeing anyone saying they feel oppressed by poc’s mtb’ing

 @JPostuk: I think there's a logical argument that "us-ism" develops over time although I couldn't tell you why. Men have done it to women, and women do it to men in industries where they hold more senior positions. You see it in things as stupid as sports where people will get in fist fights defending their group. We seem to be hard wired as a species to divide ourselves up into groups and for as evolved as we are in so many ways, we can still be pretty primitive when it comes to our baser instincts. The only way to overcome this "us vs them" instinct is to be aware of it, and recognize when we're doing it as I certainly recognize myself doing it from time to time. I tend to do it less when it comes to race though and I think the reason for that is it's something we talk about as a society.

 @burnermtb: in the PB, MTBR, Vital, reddit, etc comment sections

 @JPostuk: certain fields of academic study deserve to be entirely dismissed. Race and gender hustlers in particular. All of their PhDs can be so easily deconstructed.

This story alone should tell you all you need to know about the validity of the majority of gender/racial/social science studies:

www.timesofisrael.com/duped-academic-journal-publishes-rewrite-of-mein-kampf-as-feminist-manifesto

 This is a fine example of gas lighting, a vile form of manipulation and emotional abuse. Argue on merits as opposed to your garbage comment that if you have any concerns, it means you're privileged and therefore wrong, ignorant, perhaps even the show stopper until it became meaningless through inaccurate overuse *gasp* racist! I'm 110% for equality, the concept of race is silly to me, we were randomly selected by God, the universe, nature (take your pick) and now it means something important. SILLY. EVIL. Culture, which is learned, now that's worthy starting place to explore difference between people because the difference is learned. Racism has been a cultural issue, though I believe as a fellow holder of the culture that we have gone too far and radicalized everything in a good faith attempt that's been hijacked by political operators....I was burned badly on a forum here back in 2020 when an article was published about quotas for bike companies to have more people of color work with them. My simple comment was "Only if people of color want to work for bike companies." CHOICE is freedom, ACCESS is freedom, combined they are EQUALITY. Can you imagine if someone seeing I liked hiking and biking said there were too few whites playing basketball, etc., and they needed more white representation in that sport??? So, full circle, I'm stoked for Ms. Goudy to be hitting the trails because she wants to and enjoys it, and so that people from similar cultural background can see someone like themselves riding so that they envsion doing it too!

 @wasea04: Glad to see someone else who has a brain. We need more PEOPLE who LIKE bikes riding bikes.

 @BikesNRussets: @wasea04 Why doesn't it make sense to specifically target and welcome certain groups of people who are under represented in bikes? who are we hurting by doing this?

Imagine going out of your way to help an older person cross the street. Would you have helped them cross if they were 20 and walking just fine? No. Does that make you an ageist by identifying a place where you can help based on someone's identity? I don't think so. Are we hurting 20 year olds by not offering to help them cross the street? Let me know if this example makes sense or if you think it is a false equivalence.

 @lefthandohvhater: I respect your good faith response, honest misunderstanding and disagreement is something we can work through, there are too many disingenuous people out there...anyhow, I don't have a problem with it, that is targeting a specific group to promote access. My problem is that any criticism of this endeavor is met with cancelling type comments. A more distant problem I do indeed have, and frankly it's all of ours, is the use of equity instead of equality. I alluded to this in my first post. Not to pick bones with you, and comparing people of color with an elderly person is indeed a form soft bigotry, it technically has a name too; "the bigotry of low expectations." It assumes that certain groups of people are not able to succeed unless an outside influence paves the way for them, since we're getting really deep on this, the way to both treat our fellow human beings as both equals while also offering help is to ask if it's desired, and also get out of their way so they can act as they'd like to in their pursuit of life, liberty, and so on. Gov't involvement has stymied the natural trajectory of the black family in America in more fully joining other groups that have successfully integrated into the Great Experiment, it's tragic really, and LBJ to be blamed for it!!

 @wasea04: What if the outside influence has actively worked against them for literally thousands of years? What if we all used to beat the shit out of old people when they tried to cross the street? Does that change anything?

 @lefthandohvhater: You really have a poor opinion of POC don't you.. like damn man, does painting them as victims really stoke your white superiority or what? You get to be the virtuous white savior when you 'help'?

It's 2021 dude. How patronizing do you have to be to be like 'Dear black american, did you know it is ok for you to ride a bike in the woods? Please do this thing so that I can check 'representation' box on the trailhead survey. Thx'. Based on your previous example, it's not a stretch to believe you think this way, and says a lot more about your ego and the issues you have with POC than anything else.

 @mikealive: don't worry he would be exactly the same in my country which is one of the most progressive in the world and has only recently had large scale immigration from Africa. There is no history of slavery or racism here but we still have the same white saviours and people trying to benefit from victimhood culture. In fact it's almost more relentless here than in America. No matter what excuse or logic they give the reality is they don't think black people are capable of doing it themselves so they want to "help" them. These people are like religious zealots but they don't believe in God. Anti-racism, environmentalism and a lot of these other progressive movements are purely there to satisfy the cravings of the holier than thou, pios types who have always existed and always will exist. It doesn't matter if they believe in God or not, they will find some other cause to chastise other people for.

 @lefthandohvhater: It does, we ought to be accommodating when a group that's been marginalized explores their freedoms! I think you're being hyperbolic regarding the thousands of years, because that leads us to why the idea of equity always fails; if you go back far enough every group's been oppressed by another group at some point. Africans have not been oppressed for thousands of years by outside influences unless you're referring to the expansion of Islam into Africa by the sword? Oppression by europeans began in the 15th century and I'd say ended in the 20th century, gladly! We can simply go forward doing our best to be inclusive and fair.

 @mikealive: Well thats certainly an interesting opinion to draw. All I'm trying to justify is helping people start mountain biking. Granted my example might not have been perfect but you clearly weren't attempting to actually understand the point I was trying to make.

 @lefthandohvhater: Dude, it was your example, not mine. I don't think *you* understood the bias present in the example you were making. You accuse me of engaging in bad faith, but that comes on the heels of a gaslighting comment like "All I'm trying to justify is helping people start mountain biking"?? C'mon man, just be real here.. that's not "all" you're trying to do. Especially when you already said earlier in this thread, "Why doesn't it make sense to specifically target and welcome certain groups of people who are under represented in bikes? who are we hurting by doing this?". Your target isn't just "people", it is very specific people, that fit a certain demographic--and that the very belonging to said demographic is the primary reason for targeting them for inclusion. That doesn't seem a bit wacky to you? Who are you to decide who needs to be represented and where and to what extent, white man? You, and people like you, must think pretty highly of yourself, yeah?

When a rider shows up to the trail head, is there a giant gate there that reads 'If a white person did not lead you here by the hand, you may not enter'? Of course not. Black people have the internet. Latino people know how to read a map. All my black and brown friends can get to the trail without me if they really want to go, they are intelligent, capable people, I promise you. All my friends know that I mountain bike and at even the faintest mention of it do you think I don't immediately ask them if they want to go? Of course I do! But, spoiler alert, how many do you think I've been able to get to the trails with me? Zero. It's not out of flat-out disinterest, but rather jaws that drop at bike costs and the fact that when you figure in travel time, a good ride can easily take up half your Saturday.. time that is increasingly scarce when you have a partner and kids. This is a resource issue, not a skin pigment issue, and always will be. There's been a big WELCOME sign hanging on the door to mountain biking for as long as I have been involved (15+ years).. but brands pull stunts like this because they want to leverage your white guilt into a few more bikes being sold. After all, it is *my* fault more black and brown people aren't dropping $2,3,4K on a mountain bike, right? Now get out there like good little diversity soldiers and get those brown people to the trails so help me god...

I'm of the opinion that actions like the ones you propose are condescending and remove personal agency. They "feel" right though, and that speaks right to the moral superiority of the argument. It's white ego, sorry.

 @mikealive: Dismissing all past and current oppression as "my POC friends face no additional barriers they could go if they wanted to" is just a blatant excuse to accommodate white guilt.

I get it. It is uncomfortable to accept the fact that you have privledge and you may be responsible for reparations (on a microscopic scale relative to past oppression). You can't fix inequality by just saying "ok well starting from now on we're all equal!" This is to completely ignore that we are all starting from different positions that are generally (yes this is a generalization) based on certain identities, often race.

 @mikealive: There's a lot of white people whose understanding of race in the US is derived primarily through abstractions. Stuff they've read in whatever the latest "race" book de jure happens to be ("White Fragility", "The New Jim Crow", "How to be an Antiracist", etc.) or during their corporate DEI training or something a college prof taught them. So much of the language is even predictable, it's boring frankly. Folks linking redlining to why modern POC's can't mtb. You can't make this stuff up.

Having grown up around a lot of ordinary black folks, I can say that the modern "white liberal" take on black people is catastrophically wrong and patronizing.

 @lefthandohvhater: This is where you post the equity v. equality fence at the baseball game pic....

 @lefthandohvhater: I have to say first that what you wrote was such an odd, projecting, non-response to anything I said. Where did I claim that I don't have privilege? Why are you trying to paint me as the bogeyman you've concocted in your head? It's like you got called out on some BS ideas, and instead of trying to actually explain or defend them, you just hurled a bunch of nonsense at me hoping that one of your smears would stick? Go off I guess. I'll just leave you alone if you're going to go this route.

To the larger audience engaged here--don't do this. It's a tactic that is far to common these days in online discourse. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not make them 'the other side'. Comedian Mark Normand had a bit that the new N-word is "Nuance", which definitely applies on topics like this. The number of weirdos that immediately paint others as racists, etc just for disagreeing with them is nothing other than religious zealotry. It's demonizing those who dare to question 'the church', which is this case is the racial dogma from which the moral superiority is drawn. Taking such a position allows the individual to promulgate any number of untrue assertions (racist, sexist, phobe, etc) in an attempt to delegitimize dissenting opinions. In practice this plays out like, 'Well, I have the moral position here, so if you question me then you're a racist'. It's not only transparent, but tiresome and unproductive.

 @burnermtb: You beat me to it. Abstractions is very accurate. I think a lot of these white folks really have their heart in the right place, but literally have no/very few black or brown friends. And by the numbers there's reason perhaps--in the US whites outnumber blacks 4-1, latinos 3-1. In some areas of the US it's going to be hard to have any meaningful interaction to the point where a friendship may sprout. Want a good laugh? Start asking your latino friends their feelings on the term "latinx"... universally dismissed, yet 'educated whites' still gonna prop that up because it 'feels good to care'. One hundred percent agree that "...the modern "white liberal" take on black people is catastrophically wrong and patronizing". The side eye I would get from any of my black friends if I tried to talk to them like that, lol.

 @mikealive: I hear ya Mike. To understand this dynamic, there's a series of "black people react" to one of Bill Burr's comedy routines about black/white dynamics in Harlem:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhDpvlFDE40

 @burnermtb: it's almost like that video points out differences in the culture of black and white people in America. I wish @lefthandohvhater could explain to them how impoverished they must feel not being part of the mtb community. Its just hilarious that people like him think the same percentage of black people as white people want to take up mountain biking. It's not on their radar, they generally don't give a shit about it. And those that do are more than welcome to try it. The cultures are so incredibly different you see it in the sports we watch, the clothes we wear, the music we listen to, the TV shows we like. But this genius here thinks the only reason black people aren't participating in mtb at the same rate as white people is because they aren't allowed. What a condescending shit head.

But the correlation with religion and the overzealousness of these woke people is very real. The rituals are the same (kneeling, worship, martyrs, faith over logic and reason, etc) but I think it's far more dangerous than religion as they have absolutely no one to keep them in check and they are totally oblivious to the ways in which they act. At least a born again Christian is aware that he is a born again Christian and has a set of beliefs limited by a book. Woke/social justice type people do not acknowledge this at all and they have no figurehead or guiding principle to tell them what is right or wrong like a pope, quoran or a head of a church. If one of their woke leaders suddenly goes against them they will just turn on him and take it even further as there will always be someone willing to condemn that person. It's such a dangerous mode of thought and puts the self at the centre of everything.

I reckon the two groups of people who hate each other the most in America right now are all white and would quite readily genocide the "bad guys" with a little coercing. You see some truly loopy shit written by blue check people on twitter. Genuine hatred in America is very real right now but it's mainly due to politics and not race/religion anymore.

 @burnermtb: those vids are hilarious, thanks for the link.

 @humoroususername: excellent points all around.

 @nyhc00: No problem. They are funny. In another comment, I was talking about how I think Gen X had the right approach to race. I think the Bill Burr sketch, plus the audience's (black and white) reaction embodies that approach. It's not "color blind", in the literal sense, but it's a process of deescalating and/or de-essentializing race through a combination of humor that is at once self-deprecating but also making fun of our differences in an endearing kind of way. It encourages recognizing and being comfortable with cultural difference and diversity without having to walk through a mine-field. This, to me, is what a healthy, multi-ethnic culture looks like. One with humor, grace, patience, and understanding.

Our current culture is an obvious regression, and one which is dangerous. They say that the death of humor is a foreboding sign for a culture. We are becoming increasingly humorless and overtly serious - to the point of paranoia. I was thinking about this comment thread and what struck me about it is that in 2005, we'd all just be talking about bikes, components, riders, and cracking jokes. In 2021, the PB comment section is now just as often filled with accusations/defenses for/against racism/sexism, etc. as it is bike banter. That's utterly depressing.

 @aaronjb: I mean…..it kinda is.

 "needed to make mountain biking more welcoming to a diverse population."

What does this mean in unambiguous terms?
What is stopping the diverse population from getting a bike, and go ride?

 @aaronjb: being nice is what’s needed to solve most problems in this world.

 @aaronjb: ok, how am i stopping those people from getting a bike and going for a ride?

 @aaronjb: how the f*ck do you exlude someone from riding bikes other then that it cost money?

Do people nowadays really need other popular people to look up to or what?
Why can people not do their thing if they wanted to? Do they need someone to push them or why can't they do it alone?

 @philneuve That may be the takeaway but it's not the point of the article. It's never a bad thing to give a voice to people who are under represented in a space. Just like when you have a meeting it shouldn't just be the loudest people in the room who get to speak.

 @aaronjb: who do you think would face more discrimination and prejudice? A random black kid turning up to hire a mountain bike at Whistler or a random white kid turning up at a basketball court in a predominantly black area of Chicago?

One would experience very open racism and the other would have to look for some sort of discrimination/oppression. I don't think it's too hard to guess which scenario is which.

All of this stuff is so divisive. The only people who think this stuff is even remotely relevant to increasing participation amongst minorities are the type of people who will never ever do anything more hands-on to get minorities involved. If you want more black kids to try mountain biking how about you organise a mountain biking trip for a predominantly black school.

This horseshit about seeing other people who look like you doing it is totally unproven woke, social studies bullshit. But for some reason these nonsensical courses, which shit out phds for fun, are taken seriously by upper middle class white Knights who like to pretend they care about social issues.

 @aaronjb: you need to speak to actual people more and stay off the twitter, you recreational outrage is far to transparent.

 @willis1021: what is the barrier? I don't get it, I ride my bike to don't see anyone so whats the problem here?
Other then again , money, how do you stop someone from riding?

 @aaronjb: by being nice to everyone you meet

 @aaronjb: hahaha this is hilarious.

Americans are so painful to listen to and obsessed with racism. I love when people start telling others how they should be "part of the solution". All the while totally ignorant to the fact that America is now more divided than it has ever been on race issues since the proliferation of these ideas.

America has never been so divided and it has never had more people lecturing others about how racist and problematic they all are. What exactly is this solution you people are offering and are the positives of utopian society you envision going to outweigh the ever growing division?

I don't know how people can look at the way people are communicating today and the obvious polarisation and think that they are somehow helping by telling other people "you don't understand like I do. I'm ver smart on this topic, listen to me".

 @aaronjb: I see you are in Portland, Maine. That explains so much.

A city which has completely lost the run of itself.

 @Steventux: how do you suggest we get more diversity in nursing or teaching roles? How about more diversity in the NBA or long distance running?

What exactly is the thinking here? Why should every single thing be diverse? The diversity movement appears to be driven entirely by university educated white people (always in some bullshit social science) and corporations who literally do not care unless there is some end game about money. When the biggest drivers of these campaigns are all corporatations do you never stop and wonder what their real aim is?

Why exactly would any of these companies care about diversity?

 @aaronjb: outed myself as a racist.....its just laughable that some people think its logical to infer such a outrageous claim as labelling someone a racist can be made on the basis of a disagreement over diversity propaganda.

Although, it appears there is an entire group of people that no longer have any idea of how serious the word racist should be. People like you have devalued the word to such a degree that it is now totally meaningless.

 @willis1021: or you need to realise that America is now one of the most divided nations on earth and that division is accelerating. And that division is accelerating rapidly in the last 8 years.

Yet all we hear is people like you and the other guy telling everyone that they are racist, institutions are racist and that the root of all problems in America are racist. Are you going to deny that this type of talk has accelerated massively in the last 8 years? People are being "educated" on all these woke talking points like never before....which must be a good thing to you? Yet the country is supposedly becoming more racist and more divided.....

So if this is the solution.....please explain how its working?

 @aaronjb: you must be so angry. have you tried yoga?? - Normal people have enough to deal with. Why can't these "diverse people" do it for themselves? it's a serious point. I did it and lots of other people have done it. Second hand frame, deore groupset and secondhand forks for under $1000 Other people have their own lives to live. Life is hard enough as it is. most trail centres around the world have anti discrimination policies in place. There is lack of diversity in mtb, we all know that -but is that our problem? it will change. Sadly it's been hijacked by the uneducated and woke social worrier brigade that has infected mountain biking. There are thousands of people slumming it around the EU and USA in tents and vans just to ride bikes - why cant people of diversity do this?? the problem isn't us ....its them!! In my view it's a marketing issue. Brooke Goudy should have done a video about discovering mtb, progressing as a rider, meeting other riders and being accepted into the community -thats a video that will work!!

 @willis1021: well that would suck but everyone who was and is still the outsider and get shoved away should hardened up by now and don't give a shit about others. If they look at you stupid and laughing, that is sad and a problem but if they doing nothing, there is no problem. Its your own imagination then.

Again perception , why do people look at this angle to it? Why is it possible to say it's a white middle aged male sport? Why does it even matter, this should be the question and why is important how something looks. Why does it need others like you to drag you in?
I mean everyone I know started and riding bikes cause the parents did it. Just regular bikes, that didn't stop them from going into the forest with it. Riding the first hiking trails and later trying trails ALONE.


From my point of view and country, I can't see this. Its more the other way around. More expensive means mostly , you can't ride. Probably people will make fun of you if you turn up with that.

 @willis1021: Again with this assumption that all POCs are poor! So many POC are tired of the pandering and special handling. They don’t want your sympathy or your guilt. Again ignoring that fact that the major majority of poor Americans are White… and those people do not have anyones pandering, sympathy or guilt.

 @aaronjb: Please stop with the racist talk. That word gets thrown around so often these days… so much that it has lost its real meaning.

 @Serpentras: right on.

There's a famous American saying that you almost never hear anymore as it's like they've all forgotten it.

"It's a free country"

All these artificial "barriers" will melt away pretty quick if you just go buy a bike and ride it.

 @nurseben: "the first challenge we had to overcome as a species was me vs you. We learned that we could have more if we worked together. The second challenge we had was us vs them. We haven't done so well with that one." - source unknown.

Us vs them seems to be wired into most peoples brains and it is fairly obvious to anyone whose learned anything about European history that there's a good 200 years of recent history where white people viewed other races as sub human. It's probably only been since about the 1970's that other races being "sub human" has stopped being a central theme in white politics.

So yeah there sure as hell is a divide. There is quite literally multiple generations of people still alive who have been persecuted by white law enforcement based on their ethnicity. And it's only been about 50 years since white society has started on the path to treating people of colour like they're human beings.

The real question is why not have these conversations? Why not give people of different ethnicities the opportunity to be a role model for people who look like them? How does that negatively affect you?

 @friendlyfoe: not sure where you’re coming from friend, but you seem to be raging against the machine … of which I’m not.

Give it time, that’s all we got.

 @nurseben: Sorry was agreeing with you

 @friendlyfoe: gotcha, no worries, it’s hard to communicate with words alone. I’m not one to skip a fight, but it gets old after a while. I have never understood the fear that leads people to hate.

 @humoroususername: I’m from Portland, ME and can confirm it has completely lost the run of itself. It’s very sad.

 @nurseben: I could create a list if you like but it would be pretty long lol.

To be fair it is easy for me to have empathy for others because of the immense privilege I have. While I've worked for everything I have in life there have been literally no roadblocks in my way, except for occasionally myself. Growing up middle class in Canada means that I had access to any opportunity I was willing to work for. Access to student loans when I wanted to go back to school. Access to free health care when I hurt myself. And just generally growing up in a society where cultural norms are based on tolerance makes it easy to have empathy for others.

Lots of people have grown up under very different circumstances. So I think there's room to understand why it's hard for some people to be generous with others.

 @Baller7756: Dude you need to drop this point, "Majority of poor are white", because it is an oversimplified and misrepresentative data point. You made the point elsewhere that 50% of poor people are white, quick research affirms that number, but you're neglecting that approx 60% of the population is white so if there was no racial bias in poverty there should actually be more poor white people.

 @pourquois-pas: works both ways my friend. So if you see something “good” that is dominated by whites, you can’t assume racial bias just like if you see something majority white which is bad you can’t assume it’s majority white.

When you see people saying “it’s too white” in a majority white country, it’s like saying something is too Chinese in China. Virtually everything is going to be a majority of the thing which is the majority.

 @burnermtb: You are making a simplistic argument that there is no racist element in economic status by stating half of poor people are white. When what that proves is that minorities are, proportionate to their share of general population, more likely to be poor. I'm not arguing why that is the case, just that your use of statistics to support your argument is flawed and incorrect.

 @pourquois-pas: I’m agreeing with you that simply because half of white people are poor that’s not evidence, standing on its own, for or against racism. But, if we take that as a given, we also have to accept it in the opposite direction, i.e., simply b/c something “good” is majority white (mtb, for example) we must suspect racial bias.

White people, like any group, do things like ride bikes and sometimes - more often than not in a majority white country - they end up being the majority. There’s a weird fetish in pathologizing anything associated with “white”, in way that we wouldn’t do to any other majority group.

 @burnermtb: burn another one, dude.

 @pourquois-pas: I don’t think you can just brush off what @burnermtb is saying. I was going to reply to your statements, but burner put it so well in his/her followups.

Even if we entertain your “per capita”… “disproportionate” argument (which is also getting very old), 50% poor representation is not too far off from the 60% overall White population number. Throw some standard deviation and errors in sampling and “biases” in reporting and it’s pretty darn close to what you would expect.

Whether it’s 50% of 60%… the point was not to say that racism doesn’t exist (that’s pretty evident from all races), but rather to say that a very large portion of our population faces their own economic and social impediments without any support and without people feeling guilty for the disparities. Take a stroll through middle America or Appalachia if you really want to see people who need help…

 @Baller7756: Good point and thanks. My main point is that the mere existence of disparities is not evidence of racism and, more specifically, the mere existence of white majorites, in a white majority country, is to be expected, just as we would expect most things in Namibia to be majority black. So many people have been misled on this issue and it's at the root of why these conversations are so fraught.

Nobody in this comment section objects to the idea of anyone riding mtb's. It's the veiled or implied accusations of racism as to why there are disparities in mountain biking that get people upset. Also, at the end of the day, we're not talking about say health care or education, etc. It's a hobby. The over-politicization of literally every aspect of life is not only unrealistic in its goals, but it sucks the joy out of everything. MTB is, frankly, an escape for most people. That there's so many online political fundamentalists dragging everyone into their misery is just obnoxious.

 @humoroususername: The constant topic of racism will drive you to hate everyone here in the US

 @humoroususername: As an American, I agree. Americans are uniquely obsessed with race. It's a major weakness. I think it stems from a couple of factors. First, America was originally founded by religious groups widely considered extremists in Europe, which is why they fled to the new world. Although the US, like most of the developed world, has become more secular in recent decades, the fundamentalist streak is alive and well and to me, must be a factor in explaining why we appear to be in a moral panic loop from which we cannot escape. Right now, we're in a moral panic over racism. 5 minutes ago, it was sexism. We're ground zero for moral panics in the world and it's utterly frustrating and embarrassing. It's like this weird mass expression of Catholic guilt.

Another factor is that we're running an experiment in the US, which is a truly (at least conceptually) multi-ethnic/religious/racial, etc. country with no central identity other than, perhaps, citizenship. But, as it turns out, many people are uncomfortable with that - and not in ways you might think. In environments which attempt to downplay a universal identity, for many, this merely intensifies the search for identity. I think this is a factor in explaining the explosion and ever finer gradation of identities we're seeing currently in the US. There was a time - roughly late 90's through early aughts (Gen X) - when I thought we might be on the path to overcoming this tribal urge and getting to a point of fully realizing the dream. I may be biased, b/c I'm Gen X, but I think Gen X had it right on matters of identity. It was Gen X who elected Obama. But, alas, this appears to have been temporary.

 @burnermtb: So many good points and I can totally agree that the Gen X crew were well on the way to a color blind society. But, somewhere along the way people decided being treated equally and without special consideration was not enough… that ignoring differences was as bad or worse somehow. Now it seems we are all struggling with what people want… why they are so obsessed with identity, and what different identities are really looking for.

How far does it go down the rabbit hole? Will Red heads want special consideration, will bald people? I think we are already hearing noise from over weight people. How about short people… low IQ people? The list of potential “identities” that could need recognition and special consideration is really long!

 @Baller7756: Yep. It's almost infinite, the number of ways in which we can divide ourselves. It's really distressing to see how much identity essentialism has infiltrated at the institutional level. We're raising children with this mentality in our schools. I'm not prone to catastrophizing but I'm genuinely concerned about this resulting in a catastrophe. It's like we're pulling defeat from the jaws of victory. We were on the right path. It was working. Maybe people just got impatient? I don't know, but, it's a very troubling sign.

 @friendlyfoe: that thinking of other ethnicities being less has been a mindset all over.
Some South Americans literally rounded up anyone not them and sacrificed them by ripping out their hearts.
Chinese history documents a great deal of ethnosuperiority. The slave trade un North Africa and the Arabian coast saw more slaves traded (then subsequently worked or raped to death). Japanese atrocities in ww2, fueled by racial superiority.
Archaeological evidence of inter-First Nations' genocide prior to European contact, etc, etc, etc. How can you NOT be aware of these things?

 @Baller7756: That minor statistical error you just brush off is significant, hundreds of thousands of whites not poor who, statistically, would be if there were not some sort of bias affecting affluence by race. Arguing "there's a lot of poor white people too so there isn't a race problem" is an incredibly simplistic argument for such a complex issue, and, frankly, it is outright false. The bias could go either way, so as much as it could minimize the gap it may actually exaggerate it - error is a +/- factor.

 @pourquois-pas: Of course biases exist… it’s the natural order of all things. The overall point I was trying to make is that there is a considerable amount of bias that negatively affects poor people. No matter how they identify themselves, being poor is their ultimate obstacle. I wanted to highlight a massive group of people that are discriminated against, but have no outward identity to separate them from rich people in power. If these people were Purple, they would be the central focus of anti-bias due to their large population numbers, and their perpetual cycle of poverty.

 @Baller7756: Man, that was concise and eloquent, like zero extra fat on that.

 No.

 @JPostuk: can you define what "representation" is? What is it, precisely? Where should it be? Everywhere? Some places? which places? Only in "positive" things (i.e. sports we think are fun, jobs we think are "good")? Or also in negative things (homelessness, suicide rates, jobs we don't think of as "good"?)

I think the point is just do what you want, with people of quality character, and have quality character yourself. We are all individuals, the idea that you need someone "like you", especially if "like you" just means things like sex or skin color (things we cannot control), is actually very regressive and tribalistic. I mean, can anyone here define what, "like you" even means?

We do a lot better as humans focusing on character and common "culture" (I use this broadly, "love of bike riding" or "passion for literature" are common culture, as are more traditional things like cuisine, language and religion) over superficial qualities.

 @JPostuk: I feel bad for them because they can't do anything alone. This means they are insecure of them self. This will be a problem on many different things in life, as you NEED a role model for mostly anything.

I was tought early on to respect others but also to not care about what others say. There was no role model for me and I was growing up with no one to looking up to.
The reason I double down on this "who cares, I do my own thing" is that I got bullied for my entire life. For my name, for my looks, for my behaviour, for my outfit.

 @Serpentras: "it worked for me so it should work for others" woooah that it a smart statement.

Let's continue on the same slope. I never needed healthcare so why would others need it. I don't need a car so it should be forbidden for others as well. I was never unemployed so let's stop paying unemployment. I will accumulate enough cash before I retire so I don't need a pension and I don't see why others would need it

 @zede: that's your own interpretation of it. I can't help you with your own imagination.

If you can't get your head around that it is better for anyone to just do what you want without needing a hero, so be it.

 @Serpentras: Not only you missed my comment, but you also missed the point of the article.

But yeah keep explaining how you know more about this topic from your EU white male point of view because you felt excluded in high school because you wore black, had long hair and listened to metal or something like that rofl. This is sooo comparable

 @zede: okay you are a something else because you know f*cking nothing. You assume because of metal, how narrow minded must you be? Pahah yeah whats that, because you wearing band shirts and long hair you get excluded, oh man you absolutely WRONG, that's not me. You didn't even checked my profile do yah?
Highschool? Entire life is something different or what do you say? Bullied since kindergarten is diffent is it not? You claim to know what's going on? Really, you can't even assume what's up if you wrote this kind of bs.

Last time I had a argument with you, it was the same. You are so far from the truth it's hilarious.

 @trialsracer: You have made one of the best comments and asked some of the most important questions on this entire article. Questions that I have little doubt with ever be addressed in good faith by people pushing racialized dogma.

 @Serpentras: "You claim to know what's going on? Really, you can't even assume what's up if you wrote this kind of bs."

Good. Now just put back your own words in the context of this article, except this time you are on the side of the clueless one commenting about something you don't know...

 @zede because you are so terrible wrong and want to pick words out of the context every time. I don't care anymore about your interpretations.


You want to tell me again everyone needs a hero to look up to ? Why ? What will you gain other then weakening your self and be depended of this person? I Have seen enough people who go crushed because the the person they looked up to let them fall or just made terrible decisions.
Is this your answer, you don't want to be self-sufficient?

 @Serpentras: "You want to tell me again everyone needs a hero to look up to" eeehhh no. you're the only one obsessed with this in this comment section

 @zede: your comments give it another spin so I don't believe you. If this is obsession I dunno, I must rethink this word.
That you don't want to answer gives me the impression you have no solution to a problem that actually exist. Why people have a obsession to look at others to do what they want and don't do it if no one does it that they know, not cool enough or what?

Introducing someone to something new they never heard of is good. But I can not imagine how someone never heard of riding bikes in the dust.

 @mikealive: thank you, I appreciate that. I try not to get into internet pissing matches but I really believe some people need to think through this stuff at a little deeper level before we start tearing our society apart... we are chasing ideals that make no sense and have no clear goals past surface level blurbs and hashtags

 @JPostuk: read my comment again, but actually read it this time. You didn't address my questions, you just repeated "representation", but added the adjective "good".

Also, it's very sad to me that you believe that "matters of identity" are the "things that define you". I should hope that personally, I am defined by the way I treat people and the things that I work to build and accomplish and the impacts those have on others, not how I look or what combinations of chromosomes I am born with. I also would like to live in a world where others are defined the same way.

I'm sorry you've been taught to think that way, because it's just not a great way to view the world (subjective opinion, I know.) I know you are in Canada, but you might have heard of this famous preacher from the US who, about 60 years ago, gave a speech about a dream. He said, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." It was a pretty good idea, I think. Unfortunately, your way of thinking has been tried many times before, it's definitely not new and the outcomes were pretty repressive, IMO. I'd recommend checking out a book on the caste system in India.

 @trialsracer: I provided you with the definition of representation as "positive depictions in the media". I could expand on this by saying positive depictions of one's social identity in the media we consume for entertainment. If you want a more in-depth explanation maybe look a little farther than the pinkbike comments section.

As for the matters of identity thing, the dictionary definition of identity is "the fact of being who or what a person or thing is". Identity is literally what defines you. That's what the word means.

Lastly, I don't know what you think "my way of thinking" is but all I did was attempt to define representation for you, say that matters of identity are important, and say that we should listen to what Brooke was saying in the video. I would love for you to explain to me how I'm advocating for a caste system or any sort of social hierarchy for that matter.

 If you look for technicalities, no activity is without barriers, but running is generally considered to be very low-cost. All you need are a pair of shoes (you can even wear those shoes day to day to save) and some bottoms that won't get uncomfortable after several miles. Whether running through congested urban areas is as desirable as fresh Colorado mountain air is different story, but running itself has very few barriers.

 Calisthenics

 That's not necessarily the only bad look round here.

 @Mtmw as finance/economics guy, you sucked me in. Yes, we all love to complain about the high price of bikes. But as we all know, high bike prices maintain the general barrier to entry that protects the much more scare resource of empty trails. Most mountain bikers, like a NIMBY homeowner in San Francisco who opposes the high density housing project in their neighborhood, don't really want more trail users. Once you can afford and own a nice bike, the barrier to entry doesn't apply to you.

I am as guilty as the next rider, I'll happily introduce my friends to mountain biking. But internally, I really hope that everyone else, (including hikers, bikers and equestrians), stay off the trails. Covid has driven huge growth in all outdoor sports/activities, but when I roll up to my local trailhead on a Tuesday afternoon and it is full, I don't love the additional trail users.

 @Davemk: As a counterpoint, the more MTB'ers out there the easier it is to advocate for more trails, more access. Even more so if the sport diversifies and attracts people from a wide array of backgrounds: it's all too easy to say "no" to expanded access when mountain biking can be characterized/dismissed as a fringe activity enjoyed by overprivileged bro thrill-seekers. Evolution comes with its challenges for sure, but in the end I'd argue we all win.

 @Davemk: is growth good? I'm not convinced that there is a good way to do it. In my home of the PNW, traditional home land of the Snoqualmie people, the increase in users has been pretty hard on the land. Way more TP on the trail and trash at the trailheads.

 TBH you're arguing with the same people who are against all social support programs but then complain when people fall thru the cracks and make homeless encampments which inconvenience them.

 @dontcoast: you misspelled "west coast liberals"

 @teddancin: hmmm definitely lots of NIMBY west coast liberals but most support some form of social safety net and getting more people riding....so...???

 @dontcoast: I suppose... but are they ready to pay for that safety net and possibly lose some wealth in property values? As far as the voting land owning class goes, it doesn't seem like it.

 @teddancin: oh i hear you band aids are way more popular, and they'd rightly argue that their tax dollars are being wasted by red states, BUT you're absolutely right if anybody tries to touch their grandfathered in lowball property taxes or develop low income housing they all freeze n hide

 @dontcoast: that CA property tax law, 13?, is WILD

 @teddancin: absolutely crazy indeed

 Are bikes too expensive? Pre-covid, the entry level price point for most manufacturers was $500-600. Sure, some people still can’t afford that but, it’s competitive, or even better, than most mainstream sports.


And if that’s too expensive, then what price point isn’t? And, once you settle on that, what expertise can we draw upon which suggests a viable business model can be built around it - one which, mind you, nobody, in an industry full of creative, positive people, has yet to come up with?

 Uh oh. They're not gonna like what you said.

 This is about inclusion, not discrimination.

 "POC" - People of Color

 Lol

 You left out an important part--the Sierra Club was founded in 1892. Not 1982.. 1892. Gee, it's almost like that was an entire 119 years ago, and the country has grown and changed since then. That you would even bring this up like it has any bearing on people's access to the outdoors in the year 2021 is a sign of psychosis. Change my mind.

 Exactly the Cancel Culture response I'd expect. You're conflating a centrist opinion, with white supremacy. I'm not aware of "...those who oppress" in the MTB community, please enlighten me. In the decades I have spent in this community, I have only ever witnessed an inclusive melting pot of cultures willing to welcome all from everywhere. Sessions include anyone willing to drop in, and weekly rides are the same. I defend this point because of the increasing popularity in creating divisive issues where there are none.

 @BikesNRussets: I'd like to take the best possible interpretation of Robb's statement and think he meant that there is an overrepresentation (compared to the total population percentage) of white people in MTB and it sucks that different-colored people are not more involved in the sport. The person could have phrased it better, but I would like to think it isn't the bigoted statement it might appear to be on it's face.

 People should be able to choose what sports or activities they want to do, we shouldn’t shove mtb down minority’s throats so our sport can look better to the outside world. Instead we should show mtb to everyone, and let them decide if they enjoy it enough to do it more of it. This goes for any sport or community!

 replace mountain biking with a sport dominating by participants from a different phenotype or culture, and reread your statement.

 @r0bb: it’s racist because you think that those people need to be a minority, finding anyone who enjoys mtb should be a win. What you said was racist AF because there are plenty of poor white people, and plenty of rich minorities. So what you said is like saying most minorities are poor.

 @BikesNRussets: ok

 It's "overwhelmingly white" because it's "overwhelmingly" white people that are interested.

Black people in the US just aren't interested by and large. As a black person (as opposed to a simping white liberal) none of my family, relatives, and the vast majority of black people I've encountered care one way or the other.

That said, the only real barrier the sport has is the same one motor sports has, and even skiing: it's expensive!

After that, there is a mental barrier. An ASSUMPTION that some aren't welcome. In truth, that's an emotional flame that's been fanned by liberal media since Democrats gave up the fight AGAINST equal rights in the mid '60's.

As a black person, NOBODY tried to exclude me as a guitar player in punk and metal bands, from skating, track days on motorcycles, or ANYWHERE I've showed up on a mountain bike from Whistler to Windrock. And it's the same professionally. As a computer programmer, I've never been excluded based on race.

This whole "inclusion" idea is BS for a couple of reasons. It assumes "exclusion" is taking place when in fact it's not. It also ignores barriers created by cost (which is a symptom of a far greater problem affecting ALL of us).

I agree with others that this is a "made up problem".

 @BDKR: well said! I could not agree with you more

 EXACTLY WTF is meant by "representation"?

As a black person, I've never felt a need to/for representation before I go ride. Was I suppose to send a herald before going to Whistler the three times I did?

If it is what I think it is, then this entire thing is straight up racist. In what way? Because it demands recognition in some official way of clear designation between the races when they are ALREADY OBVIOUS. It's also a step AWAY from MLK's desire that we all be judged and treated based on our individual character.

 I do support Brooke G.