Video: 6 Things MTB Trail Builders Hate
Trail builders around the globe have spoken! And here are 6 things they really hate to see on any trail. Brush up on your trail etiquette with Christina, as she explains the do's and don'ts most requested by the trail building community.
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Braiding Trails
Changing Features
Riding in the mud
Riding closed trails
Litter.
We built a trail locally, that is now after some years part of the local DH race scene. We dont care if the trails get abused. We put money, blood and sweat into that trail. It is an awesome trail and everyone that rides it loves it. There are A and B features and a chicken run between the 2. We must be a rare case. Also the trail is free to ride.
1. Builds in process-- DON'T HIT THEM OR MOVE THE STICKS BLOCKING THEM-- they're not ready!!!!
1a. especially in deep winter when it's sloppy wet, go around the new builds for crying out loud!!!
1b. Use golf etiquette.. if you fully case or ruin a landing, please if you can, go back and slap some fresh good dirt in your hole/destroyed area (if there is some). from there it just gets worse and worse... a
2. Hit the feature CORRECTLY-- don't roll off the side or the lip of a jump, DON'T brake/skid to a stop and walk on the lip of a jump!!!!!! either hit it or go around it, this slowly degrades the feature!!!! and don't temper down the lip of a jump, it's needed to give you that pop to send you on a gappy jump so you don't have to man-handle and pull up hard. If you're intimidated by it, then it means you're just not ready yet.
3. Eager new builders... Don't build trails if you don't know what you're doing--seriously! I've seen people get hurt off bad builds, avoid creating or at least fill dig holes (remember creatures do run in the woods and can easily snap a leg in one of our holes, you gotta think about water run off/drainage, and knowing how to read a new line-- letting the trail speak to you on how and what should be built.. and know how to build jumps... you don't build short poppy jumps in high speed areas and visa versa-- I saw a bunch built like that this year-- it just bucks you so you have to intentionally suck it up... There's actually thought involved when building features... Either piggy back with someone who does and learn.. or simply just find and sponsor a trail during winter and clean it up, but don't change it...
3. if you're building in illegal places, don't make it look invasive... I've built decently good sized features that don't look gnarly to the eye of wandering hikers/horse riders etc. who would otherwise complain or tear it down (and my stuff has lasted for years in publicly illegal spots). I actually have an 80 year old hiking couple compliment my work and come watch guys hit the features cuz they enjoyed it so much. I use dirt (no wooden features), cover up all sides with fallen leaves so the features look blended into nature and it helps protect it from rain. Again, avoid massive dig holes, and where you've dug, cover it with leaves so it doesn't look like you bull-dozed the area and consider proper water drainage and routing. and make alternative ninny lines around features. You may say, well they shouldn't ride it.. but those people end up finding it and somehow hitting it wrong, get hurt, and the trail shuts down... it should look really subtle, safe, and professional/ thought out...
4. Don't flipping blare loud music on illegal trails, especially while being built.. we don't want to be caught while digging... it's an expensive ticket!
Honestly, it's such common sense it's ridiculous. Help us builders to help you... Don't work against us for crying out loud. LOL. I know we all want to ride, but just use good judgement.
My article/video would have been shorter and possibly more violent:
1. NO SUR RONS
Also I am shocked at the number of “you should be studying” my note books always had tons of bike related doodles in them and it still worked out. @laceloop
I think the orangutans should make an appearance in the next Taj cartoon
I'm highlighting the fact that there are other ways to learn valuable skills besides a formal "school" track.
Cheers
I also agree that video only articles are a pain in the @ss. There are too many places where watching a video is not appropriate/feasible: school, work, public transportation, airplanes waiting rooms, hiding from bad people waiting for them to leave, so many situations.
I get it that you need to mix up the content, but video as supplemental rather than exclusive content is much more versatile. Especially for an article like this. Maybe text with some funny gif's of Darth Trail Girl, flinging dirt out of a hole would be a good compromise. There's a reason I'm on your site and not YouTube.
Thank you, carry on. I still think you are all pretty damn cool and I'll be back, over and over again.
Ok, I've vented. Thanks for reading.
Maybe Spesh doesn't mean to say "splash berms, f*ck the trails", instead trying to say "our bike will make you so fast you won't be able to help but splash berms!" If that's any better is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe they just need a disclaimer: "you splash, you dig".
Riding hard moves dirt, that can't be avoided. Skidding where unnecessary moves dirt unnecessarily. "Unnecessary" being the key, and that can be avoided.
10-25# is nothing compared to the spread of rider weights. I'm easily 10-25-50# heavier than everyone I ride with. I almost automatically coast faster on a slight downgrade, and it take a good amount more brakes to stop me on any terrain. But because I put all the speed in by my own power, it's way less likely to get out of hand, so less likely to be skidding all over the place.
It's not the weight, it's never been the weight. It's the extra (motor) power bringing faster average speeds, which translates to both more riding on all trails, and more and faster riding on trails that weren't designed for that speed (because they were designed for human power).
Got to keep taking those ad dollars though. And since when did smooth riding look cool and sell trail bikes?
It'll never happen because brands don't care enough.
They do however raffle off some frame or product every now and then and donate the $ to trail building so that's ok - makes them look civic minded.
As I have written before Pinkbike should stop using (and promote) terms such as destroy, ripping, slash, demolish or use photos such as:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/20562771
www.pinkbike.com/photo/20556076
(which are photos taken from articles published on the front page)
There should also be a selection on the published content so as to avoid videos and photos of kids who go downhill without the appropriate protections or run with a simple lumberjack shirt that is so cool.
Your second point about PB being the arbiter of personal protection is unrealistic. Biking is a danger sport. If you want to ride in a flannel shirt (which I do in the fall and winter), then fine, do so. To my knowledge, I have never seen a photo of anyone on this site without a helmet on. If someone wants to ride without knee pads, HANS device, etc..., that is their decision to make.
The single exception to this rule is laying down a perfect "Starsky and Hutch" two wheeled flat skid in the parking lot after you jealousy finish behind your riding friends spraying them with grading gravel and dust. Everyone loves that.
It's incredibly precious and can be destroyed in an instant.
I also mountain bike and never ride naturals in the rain, rarely ride loam trails either unless they are really special ones. As nice as they are, they are quite damaging if lots of riders use them.
Respect the material we ride on!
scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=impact+of+mountain+biking+on+soil&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DQFYT8vNKtMwJ
Now when I was growing up if I ever came across a feature I was not comfortable doing my thought process was always “hmm I guess I have something to work up to, once I get better I can hit this” not “this must be made easier for me”. Now if this gap was done on a blue or green trail, and unauthorized then I totally understand. But if your skill level is at blue trails, please don’t expect a double black to cater to your preferences. Work you’re way up to it and then you can enjoy them with the rest of us.
Also it is possible to do a speed check without rolling over the top or side of the lip and ruining it.
If they still don't listen you can go with the"if you do that [undesired behaviour] they'll shut this place down!" for everything, including littering, where "They" is left ominous and undefined. Works on all but the biggest clowns, but then what does?
We build this and don't you dare ride it or change it if you don't have the skills to master it. How about a design that allows less skilled riders to use it, too?
I have actually pretty much stopped building completely the last few years as everything I built got changed and dumbed down within weeks and went from a fun, challenging new feature (for me, who sucks at riding bikes, someone good wouldn't have even had to think) that took a few attempts to master to literally a hump of dirt with a vague steeper side that used to be a takeoff. I never built a jump with a takeoff over 2 feet high or more than 5 feet of gap for reference, we aren't talking about advanced features.
The woodland we built in is huge, plenty of room for those other people to build their own trail but they didn't build anything new, just ruined other people's work.
Please don't hate on cutting roots in general. The better rule of thumb is (as the video emphasizes) to not modify a trail to suit your needs. Don't confuse trails with roots as being less prone to erosion. Also don't build trails where cutting the roots in the trail kills trees. Either take down the tree or remove roots responsibly. But again, don't modify the trail if you haven't talked to the appropriate parties/didn't build it.
Personally my #1 pet hate is rubbish, and little black bags of dog poo left on trails. Try flicking those up and over the berms please
Who said I use the rear brake?
Your still making the back wheel loose traction and slide
We happily dig and maintain our trails and buzz of people having fun doing what they want, weather that is fast and clean or all kinds of f*cking around. Most of you guys across the pond seem to be way too uptight. Calm down, enjoy every day as it comes, go ride the trails in the mud and slop while doing as many skids as you feel like doing. That's how we ride and how I see other people riding our trails and I couldn't give the slight f*ck about it
Your point on the vids pink bike show is completely valid.
2. Skids
3. Skids
4. Skids
5. Skids
6. Schralping
(I didn't watch the video)
1. Skidding (throws dirt off trails)
2. Braiding trails (riding off trail lines just to go faster)
3. Changing features (can be dangerous to locals who are used to the trail)
4. Riding in the mud (creates trenches and holes in trails, bringing drainage issues)
5. Riding closed trails (potentially unfinished features, can be dangerous)
6. Littering (be responsible and bring out what you brought in)
1. Telling people to not skid is like telling people not to drive 5 miles per hour over the speed limit. If you wanna go fast skidding is necessity sometimes. Watch any downhill race for evidence.
2. Part of sustainable trail building is building great trails that are fun that people won't want to change. If you build tight switchbacks and juanky awkward corners people will justifiably look for better lines. Rule #1 in downhill trail building school is don't build tight switchbacks that force people to skid into corners and then pedal out of them! Build wider steeper inside lines that challenge the riders skill and allow them to take more speed out of the corner.
4. Trenches and holes aren't always ideal for drainage but sometimes make a trail more technically challenging and fun. This is mtb, not bmx racing. Telling people to not ride in the mud is almost as bad as telling them not too skid.
1: Ride the trail as intended, if you want a different experience, ride a different trail.
2: Ride the trail as intended, if you want a different experience, ride a different trail.
4: Ride the trail as intended, if you want a different experience, ride a different trail.
There aren't many trails that meet my expectations, and I often want a different experience, so sometimes it's necessary to make and take steep inside lines instead of the stupid tight switchbacks.
#MakeAndTakeKnarlyDH
"Watch any downhill race for evidence." - I watch most of the WC DH races and I don't think I've ever seem a top racer 'schralp' or square off a berm. Their brake control is obviously exemplary. You'll never see a top racer grabbing a fist full of back brake when coming up to a simple feature or corner. They understand the importance of the FRONT brake
As a trail builder and rider, I’d have to agree with DCA on his points. The list is bang on, however, misleading. Perfectly build Green and Blue trails most likely won’t result in much skidding. However, Black / Dbl Black? Come on! Even your best attempt at modulation will results in some skidding.
There’s ridding in the rain, a bit of mud and muck. The latter is the one that ruins trails AND leads to trail braiding. Around here, the 2” of mud becomes 2” of dust.
Ride the trail as intended, 100%. Do not change the trail to suit your needs and if you want KOM, play without cheating.
Littering. Pick up your shit.
And volunteer during trail crew nights. Otherwise, you have NO say on how the trails are built...
1. seems weird to suggest "going fast" requires braking aggressive enough to lock up your wheel, then I assume pedalling like crazy. You're doing it wrong.
2. seems weird to suggest Rule #1 for building a DH trail is there are no rules beyond build on the fall line. If this is what you want to do go hit a gravel pit. For DH trails, you're doing it wrong.
3. You forgot 3. When it comes to numeric lists, you're doing it wrong.
4. The goal of every trail is not to make it as technically challenging as possible. Ruts and mud destroy berms and jumps, the parts of the trail that typically take the most work. If you want to ride this style of trail in the wet, take your mountain bike out to the local ATV / motorcross area. If you ride trails that will be destroyed in the wet, you're doing it wrong.
Your entire list basically says "I want immediate fun for me and only me, regardless of who does the hard work or the long term impacts on everybody". I suggest you're doing it wrong.
Luckily most of them have been noticed by the trail orgs and either receive a bridge or a well-made go-around. That example in the video with the ad-hoc shitty go around seems cherry picked to demonstrate what not to do, but to me it just shows either a poorly designed trail or a trail that needs updating to match the changing terrain (water-flows down a slope change constantly, that's just life). It seemed pretty dry around the mud puddle, so that's probably a semi-permanent wet spot and should be re-routed or drainage added. And that's why I pay my trail org dues, so the folks with the building skills can do that kind of maintenance.
When ever i see a hidden comment now i look for your name lol
People have said enough to debunk your opinions, but its clear to me that if:
1) you dont know how to corner without skidding (you actually loose braking force when your tire breaks traction. momentary breaks in traction aside, its NEVER necessary to maintain a skid),
2) dont understand that trail building is a personal form of art and is such subjective and appreciated differently
4? lol ) you dont know some ground and trails are subject to increased erosion from rain and snow run off in inclement conditions, and its disrespectful to the builders to soggy-bomb em, who will ultimately have to repair your damage to keep the trail running the way they intended
you dont know what you're doing... you're just making excuses to try and hide the fact you've got no knowledge of these things.. its like when people try and teach some one something cause they obviously are doing it wrong and anyone who knows can tell, but the person doing it wrong gets all offended and talks down to the good samaritan out of embarrassment or something, but the real embarrassment is that they keep doing it wrong even after some one tried to help them get it right.
there's a difference between drifting a corner (where your tire is still spinning, like in the video you posted and Bryn specifically mentions not touching the brake), and grabbing a hand full of brake and power "skidding" around the corner or down a chute. "Skidding" is the key word there.
You'll notice i said SOME trails and ground.. not all. (you have a problem with key words eh?)
here in BC its not necessarily "poor building". its the fact total annual precipitation averages 357.3 mm more than the UK (for vancouver, even more in the mountains). its the fact that we have sometimes 3000+ cm of snow in the hills that runs downward in the melt off. Trails that are properly bench cut with adequate drainage still flood in certain areas if there isnt enough grade. That doesnt mean the trail should never have been built, it means its only sustainable to ride in certain conditions in our rainforest climate.
The more it rains the better our tracks get. They start rutting out and all the roots and rocks start showing. Rain is no excuse for sub par building.
1) turn it into a listicle
2) give it a clickbait title
3) make it video only
Justin - no, it cant. The trail friendly cone of silence you speak of is called volume control. You sound really laid back and fun to be around.
And seriously, every second hiker around has music on through their phones and I cant hear it beyond 20 meters so I think youre being a bit sensitive. Bear bells are way louder and travel much further.
Skids look and feel cool.
I skid often and enthusiastically with grace and confidence.
Skidding is fun and I'm awesome at it.
I have not met the trail or bike I cannot skid.
I will continue to skid indefinitely.
#SKIDLIFE
Sorry there's no way around it they f*ck trails.
1) heavy so blow holes in turns and ruts
2) shift/displace dirt around widening and swallowing turns 3) skidding over top of turns because they can't make the corner
4) braking bumps... list goes on.
I recently built several very steep local dh tracks which me and some friends rode for months (on normal bikes) with minimal maintenance needed on them. Then some local ebikers caught wind and the tracks needed maintenance after every single weekend. I got fed up with doing all the donkey repair work and as few ebikers are willing to dig as they can't be arsed to pedal a proper bike (obvious joke please don't get your panties in a bunch) the trails became unrideable.
I know ebikes allow many to experience mtbing who might not be able to with a normal bike but it's undeniable that they ruin trails.
Maybe e-bikes are driven by cyclists who don't know how to ride bikes?
2. youtubers
3. youtubers
4. youtubers
I kind of get it, but I kind of think this is mountain biking and the weather changing riding experiences is one of the sweet joys which make this not road biking.
My point is that trails of all eras still have their place. Maintenance, updates and rebuilding are different things. Some trails get so much "updates" that they are actually rebuilt and should not bear the same name anymore.
It's a serious topic, deserving of attention - certainly a LOT more than it gets - and you nailed it. Mainstream MTB media glorifies skidding/schralping/drifting/berm smashing etc. PB included, but at least you're not afraid to call yourselves out.
And we wonder why we have trouble with our land managers.... I appreciate your effort to raise awareness,
Oh! Cleanup after your dog on the trail .. I don’t like getting a face full of dog excrement. Or, flick it off to the side of the trail where I won’t hit it.
Pedestrians : don’t hike on bike trails in the mud - you can be just as destructive as a bike!
Even so, I'd add another more important thing that riders do often and destroys trails: Being jerks. This results in entire trails being permanently shut down. Be cool to everybody no matter what. If for no other reason than that person blocking your line might be land owner.
At the end of the day my statement to most riders in the area is "If you Don't Work on the Trail, Don't Ride the Trail"
Here my new statement "If you don't put Time or Money into the Trail, Don't Ride the Trail"
Can we also just make it universal common knowledge that if you’re bringing a Bluetooth speaker out on the trail, or anywhere outside, that you’re a tool?
The idea that other people who made the trip out into nature also share the same taste in music as you is about as ignorant and / or selfish as it gets. It’s always the newbie who just thinks that nobody else thought to pack their speaker. NO! Nobody else brought one because nobody wants to hear it.
This is something that’s gotten worse and worse over the past couple years as more people head outdoors and in my eyes is up there with littering. You are littering your unwanted music taste into nature’s ears.
PS - I also think it’s lame at campsites, but that’s a different battle.
1. Fall line trails
2. Erosion
3. Rain
4. Chapter meetings
5. Getting paid by distance - (endless shallow switchbacks)
Things they don't like (cause they can't cash in):
1. People saying they like raw trails
2. Volunteers who only use hand tools & keep secret meeting times
3. Handlebar width trail between trees
4. Awesome, epic rainy days they can't drive their skid steer
Shocker...right?
Right now in Tennessee, there is a project with 7 different trail building companies all building a bike park. And that's in between government contracts, forest service grants & trail expansions, complete re-routes and now municipalities everywhere (and private land owners with their own private trails getting built) building everything from greenways to multi-use stuff.
Not sure what the standard is in your region, but everything is being re-routed here because F.S., Sierra Club, Trout Unlimited, hiking and equestrian clubs are all pitted against one another to "FIX IT OR WE'LL CLOSE IT" by the Forest Service. So everyone in the region addicted to the tourist dollar is raising money, picking up grants, allocating funds...you name it. It's mini-excavators galore in this region.
Seems like we have more Side by Side 4x4 accessible Strava tracks & rolling grade washouts than we do forests.
@fluider if you know where there are 2 trees to wiggle my bars between, I'm down to ride. Here, it used to be on every single ride you had multiple. Now, I can't think of even one.
Have a good day.
It's shocking as a lover of all things outdoors how much sanitization of a natural place a single walk behind trail dozer can do in the hands of a retired guy on a Tuesday AM with no supervision.
Nevermind. Not mind-boggling. Typical humans.
They often times organize trail work dayz with people that have very little or if at all, any understanding of the dynamics a rider is faced with in a sudden occurrence with said features. The person or persons in charge of groups are complete joke; especially when work done is not thoroughly evaluated and corrected for peoples safety. These areas are usually done without any signage, to indicate of man made trail changes warning riders until the fresh work has become worn in and lips are more subtle upon approach.
So PB should address in a video things riders are furious about with such piss poor trail work done by Morons, that believe their work and way of doing is the best way and continuing to do so without any repercussions if someone should become severely injured.
2.NSW Orienteering members/associates who deliberately damage trails and set up traps like pulling logs across after drops or placing rocks around blind turns.
3. Moto c*nts
I would love to see some follow-up videos that cover who has right of way when climbing vs descending, what your responsibilities are if you bring a dog onto the trails (including cleaning up its poop), and how Ebikers can effectively share the trails with those who pedal, including how to interpret “this trail is for non motorized use” signs.
"This trail is for non motorized use" signs are pretty easy. If you have motor/engine providing tractive power, you don't ride on that trail. Done. (Exceptions for adaptive vehicles like a powered trike or such as usual.)
Let's not bullshit eachother. Everyone who rides 8 hours monthly including children can put in time doing trail work. 12 hours a year is reasonable. Anyone is using trail orgs for cheap labor.
Also here's the refined version of trail etiquette to trails where money doesn't build them for you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNf765pdaMM
Thing is for public trails on public land, this is the way: they're free for all. If enough people care, they get better. If no one cares, they fade away. But it's easier to get people to care by giving them options to help out. If my choice was do X hours of work or not ride in a certain place, I would probably find a new place to ride and then the original place gains nothing, because free hours are slim-pickings over here with 2 toddlers in the house. But since I can also help out with my membership dues and\or other monetary donations, everyone gains: I get trails to ride, trail org gets cash to spend, my daughters get time with their dad to spend on learning how to ride, so someday they might donate time and money to those same trails)
The other major benefit in our scenario is the quality of the trail being produced. We, the users have total control over the quality. I'd love to hear you expand on what the better arrangement would be, but in the mean time I feel like we're doing great. We have sanctioned trails where there were none three years ago, and a solid community forming around it. We do have an eye to the sustainability of the system. Steps are being taken. I feel good about it. Don't feel cheated or slave like (quite a boushy comparison in itself!)
I may have a concept of what you'd prefer to see going on, but I'll let you paint the picture.
Also mtb is not a community, only subgroups. MTB is a sport with groups of riders and individuals with their own interests in using and abusing trail. And you can beat everyone in the head about progression in your local area about what your group is developing trail into but remember that not everyone wants what you want or what you think everyone should have in trail. Some take matters in to their own hands to make what they want to ride that doesn't involve your territory. If you want to work for free to a base of riders who exploit it, make money off it and capitalize from it than go for it, but keep them in your area and stop fueling some idea that entitlement over a couple bucks in club fees gives them the same generalized *my money builds your riding* entitlement everywhere, because it doesn't.
Etiquette is the common sense of considering how to act in order to not cause excessive inconvenience to others you are sharing space with.
@mikelevy, you listening?
#2, leaf blowing idiots
All 4 of my bikes either had no weight listed by manufacturer or it was the classic formula: no pedals, no cables, no grips, XXS frame
34 lbs, 33 lbs, 32 lbs, 29lbs bikes by the way, ask me on the trail anytime and I’ll be happy to talk about bikes with you
If everyone who donated also came a build day, there would be too many people, anyway.
Again, that's the point of trail groups: not everyone can build, but many (most?) can, and do, spare some dollars. Would you rather have literally everyone show up to a build but have no money for materials or tools? Or would you rather have _enthusiastic_ builders with a nice budget for sweet builds?
(trailbuilder myself)
How's about 95% of you actually learn how to ride a bike without flipping OTB on a tiny root before suggesting what people should and shouldn't be doing in the trails.
Rule 1: Don't be a d*ck and mess with someone elses build.
Rule 2: Don't be a d*ck and litter.
Rule 3: Go online to PB and be a huge d*ck in the comments, then watch all the tight-assed nerds get upset. Laugh, Rinse and Repeat.
Nailed it.
A rear brake at the hands of a Joey will cause much more erosion than an experienced rider on an ebike.
E bikers now doing 3-4+ laps on their behemoth sleds. Some of these A holes are doing this 4 times a week. Trail is a mess.
I'm talking shuttled laps, i've seen ebikes on these trails but they were not having that much fun.
I enjoy the trail work but only for the purpose of the trail, being slow and walking half the trail is not what a fast DH track is for.
The weight of a motobike isn't the reason they cause damage, it's the spinning of their knobby tires that causes the damage.
When I'm constantly stuck behind the FKers!! :'D
Write a list.
I really don’t like these vids she makes for simpletons. Time’d be better spent trail building with the rest of us.
Lots of trails on the horizon, specifically the bike only directional stuff.
1 at Blackhawk opening in the next few weeks.
Another at Blackhawk later this year and hopefully a harder tech line next year.
2 DH lines and an enduro line at Idaho Springs hopefully starting in the summer.
Lots of other non directional protests too.
Regarding getting new trails built, it's a years long project with to get land managers approval for anything. Outside of 2 people everybody in the organization is a volunteer. Want more trails, get involved we always need more people. It's incredibly rewarding but time consuming and often thankless hence why but many people do it.
If you want to help build there are regular build days, construction at Maryland Mountain in Blackhawk is ongoing and had been running 2 to 3 days a week for months.
Floyd has dig days every Tuesday and Friday.
m.signupgenius.com/#!/signUps/findSignUpResults
#2 Pinkbike editors
#3 Rules in general....f*ck the rules