Video: $450 vs. $2200 Wheels & Tires - Budget vs. Baller Episode 2

 you win

 @BikesNRussets: Yes. I actually have watched Hi-Low. Specifically their latest one, which is more of an apples to apples. The Taco project...

Suspension: Bilstein 5100 (entry level, but still good and competent stuff) vs. Icons
Tires: Kenda's vs. Nitto,, both all terrains, Both trucks got competent tires of the same type. Just different price points.

The garbage tires in this video for $20 vs. a DD Assegai. LOL

 Seriously one of the worst vids on here... there would have been so much options for better tyres, Kenda, Schwalbe, Vee Tyre; DMR, and all the other ...

What will Henry get as suspension DNM Shock from Alibaba and a Zoom fork??? If it doesn`t stay some sort of in the lines of being considerable by the enduseres don`t use it.

Otherwise it is just a waste of time and money

 They would have been better off leaving the original tires on at a cost of $0

 @x-rider: Hello there. We have plenty of in depth tech on the site, as well as our Youtube channel. This series is definitely more about entertainment, and that's okay. So, I kind of reject the tyres were wrong - that's the whole premise of the series. Anyway, it's meant to be fun and if you're looking for heavy hitting science - this will not be the series for you, just to save you being disapointed in the future. It's about a comparison between the cheapest vs. most expensive we could find. Not the most expensive vs. some very very very good marginally cheaper tyres from somebody like Kenda (who make excellent tyres by the way).

What you might looking for is my review that went live today regarding Delium's $45 tyre. In that I make the comparisons that may interest you.

Cheers

 @henryquinney: your brakes are set up backwards.

 @x-rider: It was a great video!
Their conclusion was: Money on tires = worth it. Decent rims but not excessively baller = good value.

It seems like the point of this series is more to point the consumer in the right direction when it comes to how much to spend and where, instead of a review of every available product option at every available price point.

 @henryquinney: We're not looking for heavy hitting science but basic relevance would be a start.

Some weird tyre brand no one has ever heard of and isn't even tubeless compatible is a waste of time.

Putting high end stuff against entry level stuff would be. And by entry level, think Schwalbe's "Performance" Line or similar from other major brands people are realistically going to go with.

 @Ktron: Yeah, this is a very valid criticism of course. We're thinking about a second series and we'll discuss this. However, I liked the fact that they were the absolute cheapest. I've done the exact videos you're talking about before and people would often comment asking why we're using value-performance tyres and not value-value ones. So, you can't please everyone and that's a good thing - variety, spice, life etc. Having personal tastes is important and I appreciate it won't be for the more tech minded, but you can't please everyone all the time and, like I said, it's primarily meant to be considered entertaining.

 @henryquinney: Just to pile on here, but given Jenson was sponsoring this why not just pick one of the cheapest tires they sell? When I sorted there were several decent options for $30 tire including Continental, Specialized, etc.

 @henryquinney: I think we where hoping it would be less about entertainment. I among others wasn't looking for "hard hitting science". But I wasn't expecting you to use the cheapest possible parts available. It was a serious bummer because of the hype I had for the series. I actually expected it to be more like the donut media hi vs low truck that it was advertised as. Your so knowledgeable about bikes, I think you could have easily predicted the outcome we all did when we saw the tires that where selected. I still hope the series is very popular so we might see something like a budget oriented vs. Balls to the wall. I guess I can see how this might conflict with sponsors if the budget oriented bike competed so closely with the highest end. For what it's worth I hope you don't have to ride those tires for the whole series.

 @bhuckley: Hmm, maybe I'm missing something, but those tyres look to be discounted from as high as 60 - 90 USD? There are some for 50$ but I would say that they're probably falling in the category of things we'd normally review on PB, and they're over twice the price of the mighty Mike Bears. As I said, those tech reviews are not going anywhere - we review lots of different things for different price points and we try and include comparisons to other products and benchmark them. I don't want to seem obstinate or too adamant but I don't see why we can't just have fun and do something we'd never normally do? Personally, I was genuinely curious to see some of these ultra-cheap parts on bikes and see just how bad (or good) they were. Budget tyre reviews, whilst very useful, are something that's covered quite extensively.

EDIT: If there is a genuine demand for a cheap-tyre comparison for tyres under 50$ then that's something we can absolutely try and make. I think it would be great.

 @SirBean: Yeah, that's very fair and thanks for the kind words. I think it was a bit like the first series of PB Academdy - great for the non-biker who just wants something to flick through on youtube but perhaps at the cost of the enjoyment of the hardcore fanbase. That feedback gave plenty of food for thought and really changed up the second series. We'll definitely discuss this internally should we make a second series of BvB.

Funnily, I had no part in ordering the parts. After that video I did decide to go back to the stock tyres for alot of the testing and do two timed runs - one on the Mike Bears and one on the Maxxis tyres.

 @henryquinney: Can you chuck a decent tyre on it at the end to evaluate everything else, I'm guessing it will always feel like garbage with that tyre, it would be good to know if all the other things replaced are just as bad, or limited to just the tyre. I'm positive you can do this in an entertaining way!

Maybe for the next series, look at doing maintenance before replacement? Might be less fun though...

 @henryquinney: marginally cheaper? Half price of Maxxis would be pretty significant. Lots of tires fall into that range, and tires people actually use and would use. I understand this is to entertain, but it should be informative too, otherwise, we will stop paying attn.

 @henryquinney: I think you are missing the point. Your audience would never buy the $20. However they would and probably have purchased the $40 - $60 tire. While it may be fun to run this $20 tire, the audience does not really care about that tire or how it performs or lack of performance compared to the Maxxis tires. Maybe something more like a Vee Rubber or even the consumer direct tire may have been what the audience was looking for. Just my 2 cents

 @henryquinney: seems like a lot of Karens here telling you to stop smiling and how to do your job!

 I’m talking about the original one, they went super cheap on that build.

 @henryquinney: If the premise is cheapest vs most expensive, why the relatively nice $400 Bonty wheels? Surely you could have found a better match for the Mike Bears. A bit inconsistent, no?

I agree with the others this video begged for the Deliums at half Maxxis' price.

Or, I don't know, maybe at least the Mike Bears used with tubes as they should be and at normal pressures? That would actually be interesting.

 @henryquinney: hey once the Reign has been re-envisioned with the full e-bay / close out deal build can you fly in Sam Pilgrim to do another cheap bike episode and get him to backflip some senders on it?

 Dude did you see the winch episode?

 I agree with the $20 tires are BS, but on the other hand when I worked in a shop I'd have customer balk at prices for an item and then come back and show me whatever they bought on the internet for a price I didn't even think was possible (the most common thing was the $600 carbon bike frames). I think it's good to show that the insanely low prices on some Chinese made crap isn't worth paying for. That being said, I don't think the people that I encountered at the shop that were mega-tight-wads are reading or watching PinkBike.

 @thechunderdownunder:

Yeah that was rough. I though for certain we were gonna see a harbor freight winch.

 @henryquinney: I, for one, appreciate the use of the absolute cheapest tires. You make the mistakes so we don't have to. Some of these commenters need more adventure in their lives.

 @TwoNGlenn: Some are just bubble wrap living I guess, funny because mtb is already somewhat extreme but it could 100% be more dangerous and therefore more fun.

 @henryquinney: just no.

I really enjoy most of your content, but this is ridiculous. And yes, I did read your response above but again no.
This series is "where we take two used mountain bikes and systematically upgrading them to see where you should spend your hard earned money."
And immediately that's not even close to what you're doing. Now you're claiming it's 'about the cheapest vs. most expensive we could find'?

Come on, literally any idiot can do that and guess what? Literally no one, not one single person will be surprised by your results.

Go ahead, be an entertainer, do this series as an entertainment bit, but as least give us meaningful information like whether that grip2 damper is really worth the money over the fit4 or where that money could be better spent for meaningful performance gains withing a budget vs. all out baller. (just as a real world example).

Kind of disappointed.

 @henryquinney: I have to agree with others here, installing $20 unproven random tires on perfectly capable modern mountian bike cannot be, in any terms, considered an upgrade... It would make sense if someone would have recommended them to you, but it this case it was just a shot in the dark and it turned out you got exactly what you paid for... Would be far more relevant if you would have taken budget tires, maybe something from the Michelin/Schwalbe bikepark series, where you get a tested tire in the heaviest possible configuration for good money (here in Europe the michelin dh22/34 cost less than 30€, not sure about the stock as they are sold out by most of the largest online stores though)

 @ctd07: that would be sick

 Yeah, for now it looks like: "We are sponsored by Jenson, so we did everything not to say that the $2k wheels they sell make absolutely no sense".

 @road-n-dirt: THIS^^^

The first video for this series seemed like it would be some of the best content PB ever did with some real world price point parts comparisons... instead we got a ridiculous bit for laughs...

What's next, pulling used break pads out of the dumpster from your local bike shop to compare them with new break pads...

 @bananowy: Ya. Mike Bear tires, and Steve French wheels.

 @Jvisscher: no

 @TwoNGlenn: Really... you needed someone to test out a 20 dollar mountain bike tire to find out it wasn't very good...? You couldn't figure that one out for yourself huh...

 Hey all - just came back to this thread this morning and it certainly seems to be going well! Haha. Lots to think about here. Thanks for all the feedback. Ultimately, I of course want to make good things to watch, first and foremost. As you can imagine, I'm always thinking about improvements whilst filming, after filming, during editing, and then once it goes live. So there's been a lot of feedback which is great. I do sympathise with the criticisms but hopefully, we'll allay some of those in the next episodes if you stick around to watch it that is. Haha! But yeah, cheers for watching. Some of the feedback has been well thought out and well structured which, as somebody that puts videos out on the internet, made some terrible content and has at times come off a massive tosser, is something of a holy grail! Ha. So thanks for that. Lots to think about, as I said, and if we make a second series we'll talk about this alot. I'm going to cut the BS here though and be honest if that's okay. It may not change, truthfully, as we're trying to make series like this be inclusive of a whole range of people. Sadly, part of making inclusive content isn't about making something everyone will like, but rather catering to an audience that may well get overlooked in PB terms. Needless to say, this can sometimes piss off people but that's just the way it is. I'm so excited in the new year to make a LOT more tech videos, where they're very in depth and put information first and entertainment second but also, again just being honest, I'm really excited for the PB team to make fun video series like this that aren't just about extra clicks of rebound or 3 mm of reach but about a more general and silly approach to videos. It's kind of the difference between radio-friendly pop music and NIN or Warpaint. I know what I prefer, but that's not to say that I don't think the other should exist or mean it's not worthy of being made. All that said, fuck Imagined Dragons, as ever. I hope that doesn't make me sound like an arse, I'm just being candid with how I see the lay of the land and how I see video production's role in mountain biking media. Yep... definitely sounded like an arse in that last sentance. Haha! Cheers and I'm checking out of this one now.

 @henryquinney: we may have to use auto-correct for you : kenda used to do excelent tires circa 2011 but not anymore"

 @road-n-dirt: I would buy the $20 tires but maybe not these $20 tires. If you are a patient shopper, there are deals to be had. I don't have the prices in front of me but I have bought about 3 sets of tires that were $30-$60 for the pair.
* On-One Chunky Monkey for like $30 that transformed an entry level hardtail
* Vittoria Goma ~$40 for a FS trail bike
* Onza Svelt $52 for rigid single speed

 @henryquinney: did i just see a QOTSA reference from PB staff? dope.

 Yeah even a semi well known brand like CST Tires, which is the same manufacturer as Maxxis but like $40/tire and maybe less-good puncture protection...They sponsor an XC team and I had em on my XC/trail bike they worked great, if only lasting 2.5 seasons.

 @GorgesIthacan: 2.5 seasons??? I'm lucky if I get a season out of my Maxxis Aspens... the rear tire is usually replaced before the year is up.

 I was thinking the same thing. They went too far on budget tires (I suspect quite on purpose).

 @cgreaseman: ...okay more like 1.5 if I'm being honest with the amount of times they slid out from under me at the end of this year. I'm also soft boi.

 @mtmc99: I think it's mostly because it's a hard sell for a lot of people to spend $100-$200 on something that will wear out in a year (assuming it doesn't get a gash). Many, many people on the trails will try to get the cheapest rubber they can find.

And as everyone knows. When you use cheap rubber, accidents happen.

 I feared that they would ruin it quickly.

Who puts 2.25 xc tires on a EWS race enduro?

Schwalbe Bikepark would have been a good comparison, not some junk made for 200$-500$ walmart bikes

 Or for $56 a piece, Michelin Wild AM2 tires, a top quality tire at a reasonable price. Specialized Butchers are $60 each and also good tires.

Even on the smallest budget, running garbage tires results in a garbage ride. It is the one place to not cheap out.

 @GorgesIthacan:

Your tires last 2 and a half years?

Wow

 Was thinking the exact same thing. I started this video while also running through the 2021 Value Products of the Year Nominees list in another tab which mentions the Deliums and was wondering why they didn't get a shout out.

 @hllclmbr: maybe he has 4 seasons a year?

 @carym: Or, Bonty XR4's for $50 a piece. best tires for my conditions and $ spent so far. have ran lots of Maxxis too.

 @mtmc99: can't be accidentally proving mid range tires are just as good as their sponsors haha

 They go over it pretty clearly in the video, tires bad rims good

 @plustiresaintdead: Not really.

They talk about how the cheaper rims might be fine if not handicapped by the tires. They don't actually TEST that though, completely missing the point of doing a comparison in the first place.

 @ghunter7: Let's be realistic, all PB test are subjective at the end of the day.

As much as they are trying to control for variables. Unless they wire these bikes up with sensors and do all the tests on the same day to control for trail conditions, we're just taking their word on it.

 No kidding. They need to rename this thing asap. Baller vs. Bush-League

 Cant wait to see when the frame cracks in the series

 I confirm buddy, but that's what we're paid for

 Now, people will see this and tell the mechanics, "The put a boost wheel on the non-boost frame in that Pinkbike video..."

Thanks Henry...

 Dealing with funk bikes doesn't give anyone the right to be a goof.

 @lumpy873: Apologies!

 As a shop rat, I feel seen. Thank you

 @lumpy873: Everyone's moaning about the funny tyres, but what's really shocking is that a group of MTB tech editors can't order the correct wheels for one of the most-popular MTBs.

 I agree.. I have 2 years on the Line Comp 30s that came on my Slash.. I just broke my first spoke. I did do the 108 upgrade out of the box, now a standard feature, for about $30 in parts and 10 minutes in time.. Plus, Trek has freehub bodies to fit any cassette option. Definitely my goto recommendation for a cheap wheelset..

 Can you confirm or not that putting $20 tires on these wheel will make them ride like garbage?

 @deez-nucks: i use Kenda tires, so depending on your view of the brand... haha

 Honestly, I thought they were great for the price.

 They don't hold up to the durability test from my experience. My current set is 6 months old, the bearings are shot and the rim is definitely closer to an octagon than I would like (i can feel the flat spots riding down the road). That is with cushcores in. The next step up into Bontrager's Line Elites with carbon rims and a lifetime warranty is definitely a HUGE step up. I've been running Bontrager carbon rims for quite a while now with largely no issues (blew an XC rim up on a rock and they had a whole replacement wheel on my bike within a week for no cost).

 @dhridernz: agreed, the Line Comp rims dents very very easily

 @dhridernz: you have to check spoke tension after installing Cush Core

 Yes! I love my carefully specced budget carbon Chiner build. I've had it a few months and it's been great so far; and my customer service experience has been way better than my other bike (Scott). Would be interested to see how a Chiner build stacks up against a premium brand when built and ridden back to back.

 Last time I seen a review of a Chinese frame the guys leg was in a cast and the frame was in two pieces. Not really worth the risk if you ask me.

 @mhoshal: There's a difference between those really, really crappy "frame-shaped object" frames and ones made by reputable companies eg. ICAN, Dengfu, Yoeleo, etc.

 Explained it in the first episode but Jenson supplied the baller parts and Levy picked the budget parts from the far flung corners of the internet. Don’t worry, the tires come off next episode.

 @jasonlucas: Thanks for clarification, I missed that bit about Levy.

 @jasonlucas: so, Mike was obviously getting even with Henry for something...

 @jasonlucas: Every component bought by Levy needs to be listed under the video with a gif of Levy doing his psycho eyebrow raise from the last field test intro.

 That's exactly what I was hoping for too. Rebuilding the fork and upgrading the airspring and damper can be done for a couple hundred. I suspect what we'll see in this series though is a cheap aliexpress fork that will be junk. Not sure what value this provides...

 @reckhard: it provides entertainment. PB wants views from people that do not know what cassete or freebody is. This is "MTB Walmart Bike in Whistler" type of the video that is completely useless but entertaining for people who do no know anything about bikes.

 I really don’t think Jason or Henry made these choices. Love those guys, keep up the great work

 @monkeybizz: Well they are defending those choices quite a bit...?

I hope the rest of the series isn't like this episode and I hope they redo this one.

 I've been gorilla taping rims for 5 years, zero issues. Stuff works great and can buy a huge roll for cheap at the hardware store.

 People think that if you do anything that dentist mountain bikers wouldn’t do that your bike will explode. Don’t do what you are told when it comes to MTB, F rules.

 Gorilla tape is terrible. It's not actually water tight for long, and may end up weeping sealant into your rim. Gorilla tape is a leading cause of alloy nipple destruction for sure, because of this. Gorilla also often leaves a mess on your rim as well, when you go to remove it. There are a number of tapes that are both better and cheaper than Gorilla. Strapping tape from 3M or Tesa are far far better. Water tight, strong, leave no mess, lighter...better in every way pretty much.

 @privateer-wheels: as I said, I've had no problems. None of those issues have occurred since I switched away from other tubeless specific tape. No residue when I peel it off nor sealant under the tape. Sucks that you've had those problems, perhaps I've just been lucky. I'll look into 3M and Tesa though to see if they are readily available and cheaper.

 @privateer-wheels: Co-signed.

Gorilla Tape works well, once, for a short period. After that you're dealing with moisture intrusion, hell-goo residue, and other sundry fun stuff. Just get Tesa tape for similar money, and you're golden.

 @privateer-wheels: Hard disagree. Used it for years and never had a problem. Stays watertight just fine in my experience.

 @monkeynaut: I've never had that happen and only ever used Gorilla tap on my rims. Typically change a tyre once a season and never experienced any sealant under the tape.

 @redrook: Agreed. You can use almost anything to tape up your rims. I’m currently running electrical insulation tape because that’s all I had and it works just fine. Gorilla tape works fine as does any type of duct tape.

 @rbeach: same experience for me. I didn't even realize Gorilla was looked down upon by so many!? I have 3 sets of 29er wheels and a set of CX wheels all holding up well with it

Willing to try other tapes for sure, and absolutely willing to admit i'm doing it wrong. I like Gorilla because i can use the same roll to tape all my different rim widths. And its super easy to adjust the width. With the other tapes do you buy a roll for each rim width you have?

 @redrook you can disagree as hard as you want, but my advise is based on the experience of seeing hundreds of wheels a year, and chatting frequently with other wheel builders who also see hundreds of wheels a year.

The advise was free. You can take it or leave it on your own judgement. I'm just trying to prevent heart ache and unnecessary rebuilds.

 @monkeynaut: Gotta love getting down votes for trying to be helpful.

 Folks that have had a bunch of residue from Gorilla tape, are you riding or storing your bike in high heat? Haven't used it myself, but have found different tapes to be really temp sensitive. Some won't install well in the sub 65 degrees, and some will leave a mess if they get too much time above 90 degrees. I've used Stan's, WTB, some generics off of Amazon, and a set last week with Muc Off. Liked the (thin) Muc Off material the most, but will see how it does over time.

 @ohio: agreed hot temperatures can effect the adhesive but that’s not a problem in the UK which is why you can use electrical tape without any issues.

 Tuck tape for tubeless.. did my rear wheel 5 years ago with still rolling.. if its good enough for a house exterior here in the kootenay’s its good enough for my tires

 @privateer-wheels: You’re not wrong. I personally don’t keep my tyres long enough for it to ever be an issue. I always retape after I change a tyre so the adhesive doesn’t have chance to degrade. I’m guessing most sealants will dry up before the adhesive gives up.

 @privateer-wheels: I got some Tesa stuff recently for a wheel that just would not seal (5 previous attempts), did the job first time.

 @thenotoriousmic: I think the sealant you use may also impact the adhesive. But I know Gorilla is not a great tape for this application, regardless. The finish of your rim can also affect adhesion.

@olly76: Tesa is great. Cheaper than Gorilla, it's actually air tight, stronger, lighter, no adhesion issues when you go to remove. There are literally no down sides in comparison to Gorilla in my opinion. Which is why several big name carbon brands use it on their rims, and why numerous other rim/tape manufacturers rebrand and sell it under their own name.

 Pick a rim tape and be a dick about it.

 Can any of the '3M' / 'Tesa' tape users specify exactly which tape they are talking about?

 @gbeaks33: another benefit of bike specific tape is it comes in 2mm increment widths so it fits your rim properly without any cutting.

 @kajones: I think most are commonly using 4288 /4298. I like Tesa 4288. 4288 is a little thinner (4.0 mil) and will stick down better to funky shaped tire beds. Pretty sure Stan's tape is just rebranded 4298, which is slightly thicker (4.5 mil) and doesn't stay put quite as well. There is also thicker and stronger again 4289 (5.9 mil), which I have never felt the need to use.

You can purchase 1" rolls and do an overlapping second roll with the 4288 so that you cover the entire width of a 30mm rim, and you get a nice double wrap down the center-line over the spoke holes. Even after doubling up, it's still much lighter than Gorilla. I use this method quite a bit, and I don't mind admitting that I stole it from We Are One ages ago. I think NOBL may also be doing the same. Hopefully they don't put a hit out on me for giving up their secrets, lol.

If your rims are wider, buy a 2" roll and you can custom cut it down with a razor blade, as many do with Gorilla. If you are crafty you can use a few blocks of wood and a razor and make a guide to make this job quick, easy, and safe.

Bike Specific Tape will cost you $10-15 for 10 yards. Tesa is more like $4-5 for 60 yards, and it's the same stuff.

 @privateer-wheels: I'd like to see this link for Tesa for $4-5 bucks. Id buy that shit by the case. That is below wholesale price.

 I've pretty must always used Stan's, couldn't imagine using Gorilla as it's just too much material and adhesive. For replacing spokes I've just cut an X to get the nipple out and stuck a patch piece of Stan's over the hole and that has worked quite well.

 @road-n-dirt:

Here you go: www.uline.ca/BL_3109/Tesa-Strapping-Tape?pricode=DK550&AdKeyword=tesa%204288&AdMatchtype=e&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk4aOBhCTARIsAFWFP9GIhBfq6QF4A_0lAXxlfUB1nsMwWMcd5HdjBvCjQOm6eEEHy9MtpkkaAgFCEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

If you are willing to buy by the case, you can get 1" as low as $3.20 Canadian a role. That's like $2.50 USD, for the record. Sounds like you have been over paying, lol.

 @privateer-wheels: having spent a good couple of hours recently scraping gorilla tape residue off my rear wheel rim bed recently (so that I could eventually get the bastard to seal) I appreciate this advice.

Tesa tape going straight in the basket.

 @privateer-wheels: this method of having an overlapping tape seam over the spoke nipple holes results in leaking rim tape. I’ve had a high failure rate from some companies mentioned above and had to redo the tape with 30mm Stan’s. Over the nipple hole the tape seam eventually splits and starts leaking, sucks when it happens mid ride and all the sealant is now inside the rim.

 @privateer-wheels: So in order to get $5.10 you have to buy a case of 36 hence now your true cost is $183 plus shipping and tax if you live somewhere where there is a uline warehouse. Even if you buy the minimum of 6 rolls your true cost is $34.50 plus tax and shipping. Actually I have not been over paying. I buy tape by the log and have it cut up into different widths for my shop. One log can net 3-5 cases depending on the widths. Not going to share how cheap that comes out to be but way cheaper than uline

 @ko-d: I've not seen an issue myself. If 4288 is the right tape for a particular rim, I always have two layers completely over the spoke holes and then some. Always lay it down with tension and press into the recess in the the tire bed. If you press it down right, with enough overlap, the tape will not split or leak. Zero issues here since I started using the tape two seasons ago. Cannot comment on a job done by anyone else of course.

 @road-n-dirt:Listen, I am just trying to be helpful to the few who are still using Gorilla Tape and thinking it's the cats ass; my intention was not to be here to give you tape quotes and try to get your undisclosed wholesale costs lower - no offense. I am here though, trying to be open with you and others in a genuine effort to be helpful.

I can't speak for Georgia, but I would assume you can find just about anything cheaper than we can in Canada, tape included. If you want to get into the math, I can get 100 rolls of 1" 4288 shipped to my door for $401.86 Canadian. That's $4.02 a roll. Buy 12, you are at about $6.17. Watch Amazon.ca, and you'll find the stuff off and on floating around $5.00 a roll. did I check my costs from uline if I ordered it from Georgia though - no. But whatever way you cut it, it's as cheap or cheaper than Gorilla or bike brand specific tape, which IS my point. My prices were ball park order of magnitude to make the point, which I think you should be able to step back and agree with. No need to be a stickler. Tesa (and similar) is both good tape, works as well as bike specific tape, and is much more cost effective. and clearly you agree, because you are buying it by the log!

 @privateer-wheels: FINE. I’ll stop using electrical tape. You win. Thanks for the info.

 @privateer-wheels: how does gorilla tape ruin spoke nipples?

 @ruggedmaine: Hahaha. Comment gold.

 @littleskull99: if tape is not water tight, it will allow sealant into the rim. More often than not sealant is pretty corrosive, especially on alloy nipples. They end up breaking down, cracking and crumbling. I've seen many where the head just totally disintegrates.

 @privateer-wheels: thanks. I was unaware of this.

 @privateer-wheels: Nice one, thanks!

 Someone discovered Google Translate

 At least they make it in 26

 Ya coming from my old bike where I upgraded every component right out the gate, I decided to only upgrade wheels on my new one. And tbh, that probably was not necessary either but I went as affordable as I could with Spank 350 laced to DT Swiss 350.

 But you hit diminishing returns really quickly above a grand. I for sure notice the diff in weight and especially maintenance from carbon rims. Worth it to me, but not $2k worth it.

Hubs, I'm a wierdo and care more about noise than engagement (beyond 48ish or 54t), so would only "upgrade" from a DT 350, I9 1/1, or Bontrager to get a Project 321 or Vesper. For folks that care about engagement, diff story.

 @ohio: Yes, I’m pretty much in line with all that. Right now I’m rolling i9 hubs with We Are One rims. My old bike had a set of the alum Enduro 309 rims with the proprietary i9 spokes. Both cost about the same, very little difference in performance and weight. Slight edge to the carbon. I went carbon because it was in stock last summer.

I think the points of engagement with the i9 hubs make the bike feel snappier and more responsive. And I like the sound. I replaced a set of DT Swiss M1900, and they just felt like they wallowed in the pedal stroke. Not nearly as responsive, and kind of a flexy wheel, too. Not a horrible wheel, but like I said, you can tell the difference between decent and great.

 Not fond of them mickey mousing at the expense of safety and premature wear. Forcing the rear triangle apart like that puts a lot of stress on it. It is one thing on a steel hardtail, entirely another on aluminum or carbon fiber.

 @carym: nah iam not to worried about that as it is 3mm a side and most bikes are not in tolerance anyways. My partner rides a Giant and when you pull the rear wheel the thing springs to well over 152mm and the bike is a 148 boost bike.

 @Tsoxbhk: Yeah, it only has about 2 threads in there of overlap. It was... exciting. Not recomended.

 @henryquinney:

Hahaha! Dm me if ya need an axle!

 Me too! 4 years on my one set now.

 Broke a rim in less than half of a year but they feel really good ! Just had to pay the shipping for the replacement rim… (it was a reinforced dh wheel on my trail bike tho)

 Pushing the envelope for 'bargain' with carbon hoops - even reasonably priced ones!

 @Chuckolicious: Nice!

 Most of Henry’s spec carries on throughout, except those horrible tires.

 agreed my rims lasted a week before they went oval...... hub bodies detonate as well....friend gone through 2 of them.....but I didn't get that far on mine. .

 Description from the website:

“Mike Bear is one of all mountain series that designed by square 2-3-2 arranged for trail condition, the double angle ramp and open sipes on center tread used to loose and compromise terrain that dirt on top of the hard surface.”

lol

 Don't forget the Jack Russell, for when you need more "perfor- mance"

obor-tires.com/jack-russell

 looks like Vittoria replica

 there's still hope for a 'complete ban for sexualizing athletes' (@chyu). A complete ban for being mean also seems a worthy target.

@thorpeauthority: which Mike plays the Bear is of little consequence

 Yeah I'd rather watch them experiment with weirdo n' wacky Aliexpress parts. People taking this way too seriously.

 I'm with you. People are making fair criticisms & suggestions I guess, but it's free and it's entertaining so I'll watch it & move on. I can see this being the start of a really fun series that gets even better over time, but if I was one of the presenters reading some of the negative comments here I'd think twice about doing another series.

 @MuddyBrit: The Mike Bear tire is already a meme all over the site. I doubt they're taking too much stock in these comments. If they put on some $40 Vee tire or whatever it would get 1% as much entertainment value. People would just watch it and move on. Everyone knows a CST version of a Maxxis tire probably works fine, I'd rather watch someone slip and slide down a mountain with a full sized frame pump.

 Poor Mike Bear is catching a lot of strays today

 This is what I came to comment section for…I may spend the rest of my lifetime wondering…who is Mike Bear…and why does he ride sh*t tires??

 @thorpeauthority: after all this free advertisement I assume he will no longer be riding his own tires

 Some many people buying carbon rims for no reason.

 Hey, tat least it’s color matched to the frame