The Pinkbike Podcast: Rob Roskopp on Skateboarding, the Syndicate, & Leaving Santa Cruz

 Participant #1:
All those superheroes. That was fun too. That was late 90s, basically. Take it, Randy. Spangler. Oh, yeah, spangler. Yeah, for sure. All those guys. I mean, yeah, that was a cool time too. Sometimes I don't remember we were focused on one. I'm going all over the place, so I'm doing my best. I was just going to jump forward to 2015. Like, there's a lot that happens between the syndicate and when Pawn shows up, but how did Pawn show up? I think it was around twelve. We had just moved into the new building where we're at now. Their former CEO just cold called me and said, hey, I'm in town. Love to come by and meet you. And he came by and we kind of had a nice conversation. He was telling me what they were planning to do. And at that time they had bought Cervello and Derby, I think, and Gazelle, I think they had already owned two. So those were the three brands that I'm aware of at that point. But he shortly after he left, around 2014 or end of 2013, we decided for us, for Novak and I, it was going to be a huge investment to expand our distribution in Europe. We didn't really want to put out the money, and I was getting to a point where personally, my kids, they were teenagers, but there wasn't really any interest for any of them to carry on a legacy, and I'm not going to push it down their throats because I want them to go out and be themselves. So we decided to put a book together and sell, and we did that. And then I think it was the end of 2014, we just finished it and I kept that relationship with Pond, and I just gave them a call and I said, hey, we're looking at doing this. We'll give you the first right of refusal. And they were all all about it. And we made a deal and sold the company at was it beginning of July in 2015. It all sounds, like, pretty straightforward and and I don't know, like like, it makes sense. But I want to ask you, like, from your perspective, you created this thing, Rob, and it's obviously like it's one of the best known brands in the history of mountain biking. You and your team made this thing you co founded. It was hard to let go of that. There's got to be some difficulty letting go of that a bit, you know? Yeah, it's your baby. But it was like when skating, when it's like I got into the next thing, I always look forward. I just go on to the next thing. I don't look back. I always look forward. There's the trope of founders struggling after a sale, and I think maybe people assumed that you and some of the other OGS would, after the sale, take a quiet exit sooner than later. But then, A, you stuck around for another eight years, and B, this isn't a quiet exit. When the exit did come, there was nothing done on their part, which seemed odd. Right. No announcement, nothing. And then what I did with that yesterday was it wasn't about that. It's really about because I haven't posted anything in over almost two years, I think. I'm not really big into the social media thing, to be honest. I just really like what Sazar is doing at Uno. We've been talking a bit back and forth over the last eight months or so, and I got a lot of time on the bike. I've ridden a bunch of other ebikes out there. Not all of them, obviously, but the ones I've ridden. The thing that impresses me a lot, this is all sort of an elaborate angle to become pink bikes. Ebike tester. Right? So it's like an elaborate you caught me, you got me. That's it for me.

 was this recorded within the last two days?, cause if not, holy crap guys, what a way to milk clicks with the "Rob appears to have left SC" from tuesday...
1upping the "full review tomorrow" thing lol

 That's what brings enjoyment back a bit to riding my bike, is I can do it more and I can descend a lot more, so I have a great time. It's just a lot of fun. So, yeah, I mean, you mentioned that there were some frustrations in the lead up to not renewing your contract, where things weren't being listened to or things weren't going the direction you wanted. What were you pushing that sort of fell on deaf ears or what were you hoping to get done? There's a number of things I don't really want to get into that it's other than basically I felt I was wasting my time, wasting my breath, and if it falls on deaf ears, so be it. That's their issue. That's their problem. There were some really cool things that could have been, but no one followed up on them. Even after three times trying to present something get it going and it just falls on deaf ears. f*ck it, move on. Rob, it sounds very much like you still have things that you want to make. Sounds like you have plans. Yeah, I'm working on some shit. My wife's got me really busy. We've taken on this project. The Breakers FC Soccer Academy. All of our kids played club soccer from like, five until through high school. And along with a friend from Montenegro, he's an ex footballer. He played for Bordeaux professionally. He played in the World Cup and everything. He's the director of the club. And we bought a 20 acre parcel for the club just between Monterey and really just south of Watsonville. So we're trying to build a stadium, get that going and dorms, and really just build up this club and hopefully become a member of the MLS Next Pro, which is a new level. It's kind of there. You got MLS, and then you got MLS next. It's kind of like farm team kind of thing. So we're trying to get that going. And that's a huge project in itself. Massive. As far as bike related things, yeah, there's a few projects I'm working on. I can't say anything at this point, but if we get what we need to get done in the next few months, it will be a few years or it should be a little less than that before it would come out. But it's a game changer. I'll leave it that from your post. People are assuming that you have maybe some sort of tie in with Uno. Can you clarify? Oh, yeah. No, I just respect what Cesar is building and what he's doing. I think it's the best looking bike on the market. It's a piece of art, but better yet, it rides incredibly well. It's always about the ride and how well it is. It's a great product. It does look quite sick. So before we try and find other ways to get you to divulge what's next, let's make it happen. Let's talk about patterns are involved and we're relentless. But what are you thinking? Back to Santa Cruz. And your time? What are some of the things you're most proud of as far as the bicycles? Everything. Everything? Yeah. Skateboards. Just a whole graphic series. We're the first guys to do a series of graphics. I had the bullseye with an arm coming out. Then more of the creature came out. No one had done that ever in skateboarding. So, graphic wise, yeah, that's probably the biggest thing for skateboarding, I think. Not to do my own horn, but I probably sold more skateboards than any other person in the world. Or close to a top two, top three. Even more than Tony Hawk because they've been selling these reissues for 35 years. Wild. Yeah. So I'm really proud of that. Fair. And on the bike side, bike had a number of things. The syndicate just the accomplishments the syndicate did and the attitude we brought, I think that was fun memories. Like I said, my kids growing up with the Riders, they saw a lot of shit, a lot of crazy shit. But in a way, I thought it was really a good life lesson of what to do and what not to do. There's a lot of what not to do. Oh, man. And what about on the flip side? What are there, like, key moments in Santa Cruz history that you think you made a mistake or predicted something incorrectly? Yeah, I mean, you only learn from your mistakes, right? That's why I leave you. Doesn't learn anything. No mistakes. This Wobble thing when we did that, that failed. That was probably the first sizable failure when we did that.

 Everything is about timing. We were there time wise. We were there in the beginning, but then everybody knocked it off and got into it and jumped on the bandwagon, and we didn't move fast enough there, and unfortunately, we licensed it to somebody else, and then that just basically just disappeared, unfortunately. Scott Yeager, who was the bike designer, and Tim Par, they're good people, and it just didn't work out, unfortunately. That was probably a failure that I learned a lot from. But I think moving forward, if you're not failing at something, you're not learning anything. And if you don't pay attention, you don't forward. I don't think you have to fail to succeed, period. So what would you in terms of failing and succeeding? The industry today is in a super weird place. I'd be really curious to hear your predictions, sort of both short term 2023 stuff and maybe some ten years down the road. Like, where are things going? This year will be a glut of inventory. And the last, what do you call it? Two and a half years, was no one could have predicted what COVID brought to the sporting industry in general. I mean, you were an idiot if you failed in the last two years, you weren't making a lot of money. You shouldn't be in the business. You're in the sporting area because everybody was telling you, because everybody wanted to get outside. Because depending on what country you're in, you were limited to doing certain things. And that was an escape. Get on your bike, go out and ride, go run, whatever it means my own climb, whatever. Just get outdoors. Because everyone was regulated to kind of being indoors and wearing the mask. So I think this is going to be now, there was lead times 18 months for certain products, right? And then you have the shipping issue where container ships are sitting out waiting to unload for months at a time. We're going to see all that take effect, I think, this year, probably through the next couple of years, to be honest, down the road as far as suspension, a lot of bike company, there's a lot of really good bikes out there now everybody's kind of coming to common ground. So I think, to be honest, your guys'job is really hard to I mean, you're picking apart little pieces here and there and it's not easy, for sure. I think electronics are obviously they starting to play a bigger role and they'll continue to play an even greater role in the bikes. One place where things could jump forward a lot is ebikes. Right now, a lot of those ebikes are pretty rough and like cables everywhere and rattling and stuff like that. I saw Kaz a few days ago and he has an Ebike where the battery door is just this absolute floppy. It's out the side and it's the floppiest battery door ever. And it just shovels loam and water directly into the motor and battery. It's crazy. And just like these products aren't very well resolved yet. Yeah, well, I mean, they're hugely ahead of where they were five years ago. Yeah. I mean, five years ago or not five. What are we at now? 2016, 16. I was like, no, we're never going to make one. And then as the motors got better, I will say this thing one of the biggest advantages to ebikes, other than being able to go on longer rides, go further and all that. I think the weight of the bikes actually helps improve the performance of the suspension. Got more traction. The suspensions are working better, I believe. That's my personal opinion. And I don't think you want to go too much lighter. I mean, there's this big push now with the lighter bikes. I want a battery that 750, whatever the weight doesn't, £45.48 50. I think it's going to settle around 40 for something that you can go more than you can put up with, like five, six hour run. And the battery technology that's coming out in the next few years, I think, will offer that. It'll be half the wait, but be able to go that same distance. Interesting. Everybody seems to suggest that battery tech, a, it'll hit cars first, so we'll see it coming, and then B, it's still quite a ways out. You think it's sooner than that. It's really I don't know how to say this without it's there. If you want it, I'll leave it at that. If you're willing to do the work, it's there, you can do it. I don't think electric cars of the future is going to be a hybrid. There's new synthetic fuels that zero emissions. I think the core of the automobile, if we get on that subject real quick, will be a hydrogen powered car. Tesla's changing all theirs to hydrogen with electric motors. That's the feature. And what's the patent number you have again that you're working on right now? Real quick? Yeah, real quick. If we get this, and it's one of those things when you see it on the bike and you play with it, you're like, holy shit, why hasn't someone done that right. It's one of those odd moments. I call it holy shit moments. Cool.

 Not to build it up too big. Other than that's why I'm very interested in working in this project with a few others. It definitely sounds like it's going to be interesting. I'm picturing motors mounted in Hubs and whatnot. Who knows something simpler than that. The goal of life is to make things as simple as you can be. Granted, life and the human being is very complex and the more you can simplify things down, the better off you are. I believe that's my opinion. I agree. I agree. So Rob, other bikes in the industry, aside from Uno, who do you like out there? Who's doing good stuff that you're interested in, you're impressed with? Well, Specialized, I'm a fairly fierce competitor, but I always respected what specialize is done. And oddly enough, I live across the street from Synyd. So we've been talking a lot in the last, well, not a lot, but we've talked a lot more than we have in the last 20 years. And I've always respected what he's built. I might not agree with everything he's done, but he's always there. I mean, back to that vital survey, he's number one. Still very commendable to be. They started in 74, I think. Then they've been top dog. Now between us and them shit for 20 years, that's a huge accomplishment. Well, what is crazy though is that Santa Cruz got there too into that one two spot because back in yeah, mutual respect there for Mike. Totally. It's been nice getting to know him a bit better. I just remember back in my bike shop days, specialist has always been big as far as I've been in the bike industry. Obviously maybe not on your side, but for me specialize has always been big and it has been interesting to see Santa Cruz go from an upstart brand to really battling for top spot in a lot of the categories. Specializes I'm guessing, I don't know the exact number, is multibillion dollar company that, that's probably the proudest accomplishment is to be part of, you know, the team we created to build Santa Cruz up to that, to compete at that level, that's pretty cool. Is there anybody else that's impressing you these days? Specialized, obviously a lot of momentum right now. I'd say from Orbea. Yeah, they seem to kind of nailed it with their lighter version. The rise is super interesting for sure around here. Really kind of a factor when you start noticing if you don't see our competitors bikes around on the trails, that doesn't mean they don't exist. But they're not doing well because this area is one of the biggest mountain bike areas in the world. Obviously specializes in Morgan Hill. There's a lot of energy from this Northern California in the mountain bike market. And if you don't see a brand, not that they don't exist, but at least the US. And I'm seeing a lot of Orbeas all of a sudden. So they're doing really well. They're cool company, too. Like, really different structure. Yeah, I'd say Orbea has got it going on transition. They've done a great job, too. Those are the ones that come off the top of my head at this point. You mentioned something just a few minutes earlier about keeping it simple. And then, on the other hand, we have Specialized, who has seen, like, incredible success, and they've been growing into this massive thing. So I'm just Wondering, your next project, is your goal to create something? Like, do you want to grow something that big, as big as Santa Cruz has become? Or is there a line like, you don't want a company to become that big? I guess that's a good question. When I left, Santa Cruz is a pretty big company. Yeah. And now it's much bigger. The hardest thing in any business is managing people. So, yeah, in a way, I don't really want to grow the company that big, but there's other ways to do things. Licensing your patents or your ideas to other companies that get all the work or have to do all the work, I should say. We have to do the work up front. Obviously, you got to get the patents and do all that. But, yeah, managing people is probably the hardest part of any business there is. And you can talk to any business owner, and I'm sure they all agree that's pretty common thing. I imagine you are riding some bikes these days. Are you riding that uno. Is that your bike of choice these days? Yeah, the Uno is what I'm riding currently. Obviously I want to keep trying out other bikes and seeing what's out there and see how things are progressing, because that's what interests me. For me, the whole premise of Fianna Cruise to start it was to build the best product we could build and let the product speak for itself. That's always been how my thought pattern works. And everybody that the team we built and the support we had around the company to build the best product we could. And personally, it always came down to what we want to write. It's a selfish interest, so I Want To Continue that way, and not everyone's going to like it. Everyone's got an Opinion, more so than ever in this world. It's like the news. Yeah, it's kind of news, but it's more somebody's opinion of what's going on. There's an event, and then there's all these opinions of the event, right or wrong or whatever. So there's a lot of minutiae out there. We do love our Lukewarm takes over here for sure. Yes. That's what we're going for. We're built on. All right, Rob. Thanks so much for your time. Both of us are looking forward to what you've got cooking. Let US Know when we could see whatever it is that you're working on because we'll be keeping an eye open for it. Yeah, definitely be in touch. It's going to be some time yet, but we'll reach out to you guys for sure. Thanks, Rob. Thanks. I appreciate it. Have a good one. Bye.

 I am not a fan of Podcasts, don't have the patience to listen to all the chit-chat. So if anyone else is like me, I downloaded the file and converted it online with app.getwelder.com/transcriptions

Here is the result:
Participant #1:
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to another Pink Bike podcast. I'm Mike Levy and I have Brian Park with me as well, because today we're talking to Rob Rosscop, who co founded Santa Cruz Bicycles back in 1994. That's nearly 30 years ago now. Now, Rob, where in the world are you? Sorry, almost 60. So, yeah, now you're making me really old. I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, you've done a lot of crazy shit in that time, though, including co founding Santa Cruz Bicycles, which is pretty amazing. Yeah, thanks. No, it's been a good ride, for sure. I've always said it's always about the journey, and it's been quite incredible journey, so no complaints here. Before we get into this, where are you right now and how are you doing? I'm in a place in Abtos. Below me is where all the devastation has hit in Seacliff Beach. And like we were talking about earlier, Capitola, the pier got kind of split in half, or a big chunk of it was taken out from the storms. And then just down the way here, half of it's gone and the parking lot is basically decimated. So it's been a tragic for a lot of people here and we wish them all the best and hopefully the weather will back off a bit, but it doesn't look like it, at least for the next week. Yeah, Mother Nature is mother Nature is take a charge right now, it looks like down there. Yeah, she's ferocious. She's pissed off. Yeah. Well, Rob, the reason that we're talking today is because you dropped a bit of a bomb on Instagram, on your personal social media account about riding an uno Myth Ebike that sure made it look like you are not at Santa Cruz anymore. So I just want to jump right into this. Are you at Santa Cruz? What's going on? My contract came up mid October and that was pretty much it. We tried to renew it. They weren't interested for me personally. There's a lot of good people at the company. Obviously, it's got a long relationship with the company. I'm still very tied in with the skateboards part of it because my partner, Rich Novak, he's the owner of that. And 30 what are we at? 35? Almost 40 years later, or 35 years since I stopped skating, I still get royalties from all the skateboards they sell, so that's pretty cool. And we tried to present that when we were negotiating and they didn't see anything to it, apparently. And I don't think they got it, basically. So wipe my hands and move on to the next thing. I've always been that way. It's about moving to what I want to do and what I'm passionate about. So from skateboarding, I went to the bikes. We did all the San Francis bike company and did a lot of fun, great things, put a great team of people together, and it was an incredible journey. So no complaints there. Let's do that. Let's jump back to that sort of the start of Santa Cruz Bicycles and even before with the skate company. Just for the folks that are listening that maybe don't know the origin story. Can you give a quick sort of cold notes of how we got here? I came out here in 82 from Cincinnati. I went to high school there. I was born in Detroit, Michigan. Within three months, I turned professional skating and then basically did that, toured the world, competed a little bit, but found it it was more for me about lifestyle and having a good time. And the way we promoted ourselves was doing demos all over the world. And that's what I found for me personally, muscle filling and skating with other kids all over the world, and introducing skateboarding to kids that just gotten into it. So did that up until about 91. Went back to work at Santa Cruz Skateboards. I ran manage the division of SIM Skateboards for a little bit, and at that time, I fell in love with mountain biking. I started racing, so I started riding mountain bikes around 87 and then started racing around 90. So Novak asked me one day I got him into riding, too, which was pretty cool, because at that time, I think he was about late forty s, and got him to compete a little bit. So he brought it up one day, what do you think about doing bikes? And I'm like, yeah, okay, let me do some research. Did that and got together with Mike Marquez and a friend of mine, and he went to work at RockShox and Fox. Now he's got his own company. So that's been really cool to do that and built Santa Cruz. Did the Tasman, and over the years introduced all these different models, put together the syndicate, race team, and kind of the rest is history. The Tasman was the first model, yeah. Yes, it was. When did the sort of focus on downhill racing and the syndicate come about? That was later. Yeah. So we sponsored a number of athletes across country downhill over the years, but we didn't have the budget to field a World Cup team. And our first big sponsorship was the Luna Chicks team in 2001, I think it was. And we did that for four years. And as the business grew, then we had the money while downhill and kind of was declining a bit, just a sport for a period. And that was kind of the opportunity I saw to jump in and build up the team. And at that point, I didn't want to do anything half ass. I wanted to bring the best guys in. And with Darren Stockton, he was doing the intense Santa Cruz team, and I got him to manage it in the beginning. And we brought on Nathan Rennie and kind of built that out, Johnny Waddell. And then in six, we brought on steve Pete and Kathy Sesler. Kathy was helping us in the beginning a little bit, but then when Darren decided to go some different path, I brought Kathy on his team manager full time, brought on Peaty Rennie was there. And then Mark Henderson, Jamie Goldman. Johnny Waddell had that big accident at Mount St. Anne in 2003, I think it was. And then we've always supported him for the last almost 20 years now. And he's more of an endurance rider and enduro. He's doing a bunch of endurals now, too. Yeah. So then brought on Greg and we built the syndicate to what really was an extension of our family. All my kids grew up traveling to all the World Cups. It was a fun ride, for sure. How did Greg pop up on your radar? I think it was Worlds at Fort William and seven, and he finished fourth, crashing and with a broken scalpula. And I'm like, if the guy can f*cking finish fourth with a broken scalpula, he's a winner. Can't believe you just gloss over the history of the superheroes like that, Rob. Come on.

 WTF you didn't ask about the future of the Syndicate??