First Look: SRAM's New GX Drivetrain Offers 520% Range
If you're a bit of a tech dork like me, you probably get more excited by the latest dream-worthy drivetrain than by the far more common mid-level stuff. It's not our fault, though, with the best tech, the most weight-saving features, and likely a dash of carbon or titanium serving us irresistible bait for easily distracted gearheads everywhere. Despite this, we're all aware that the cost-to-performance ratio doesn't make a lot of sense, especially so if we're talking drivetrains. And given that there are far more mid-level than dentist-worthy bikes on the trails, we should be paying more attention to the drivetrains that come on them.
GX Eagle Expansion Details
• 10-52-tooth Eagle Expansion cassette
• New GX derailleur
• New GX carbon fiber cranks
• Updated graphics
• MSRP: $545 USD (w/ alloy cranks)
• More info: www.sram.com
• 10-52-tooth Eagle Expansion cassette
• New GX derailleur
• New GX carbon fiber cranks
• Updated graphics
• MSRP: $545 USD (w/ alloy cranks)
• More info: www.sram.com
The GX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain supplies 520-percent range when paired with the new 10-52-tooth cassette. Retail price for the group is $545 USD.
A Closer Look at GX Eagle Expansion
Cassette: The GX group's biggest update, literally, is the 52-tooth large cog that's fitted to the back of the cassette. With the same 10-tooth small cog on the opposite end, the new 'Eagle Expansion' cassette has a 520-percent range. That's 20-percentage-points more range than the standard Eagle 10-50-tooth unit, of course, and should provide a stump-pulling low gear. Aside from the pie plate on the back, the rest of the GX cassette remains unchanged. That means it's made using their Full-Pin construction that sees stainless pins hold the first eleven steel cogs together, with the biggest being aluminum.
There are now 52-teeth on the largest cog, although the $215 USD price tag hasn't changed.
The Eagle Expansion cassette fits the same XD driver, and weighs 452-grams. That's only 4-grams more than the 10-50 GX cassette (due to the larger cog), and the $215 USD price tag is unchanged. Also, Eagle Expansion is an addition, not a replacement, so SRAM will continue to offer its standard 10-50 Eagle cassettes, but your old GX derailleur won't play nice with the Eagle Expansion. More on that next.
Rear Derailleur: If you're thinking that the old GX derailleur looks a lot like the new GX derailleur with a nicer finish, you're not wrong, but there are a couple of important differences between the two.
There are some notable differences between the old and new GX derailleurs. The new one still costs $125 USD.
First, let's talk about compatibility. The new GX derailleur gets a parallelogram that's a bit longer than what's used on the previous version, an update required so that it'll play nice with that 52-tooth cog. Its predecessor's parallelogram is shorter and while it will sorta work with the Eagle Expansion cassette, SRAM says they'd rather you didn't pair the two.
That means that a 10-52-tooth Eagle Expansion cassette requires the new derailleur, but the new derailleur is backward-compatible with standard 10-50 Eagle gearing.
The longer parallelogram on the new GX derailleur is to handle the new 52-tooth large cog.
The top offset pulley wheel has been repositioned for increased chain wrap.
More changes: SRAM says that they've also increased the amount of chain wrap - how much of the chain is engaged with the cog - by moving the position of the upper offset pulley wheel. This is said to improve both shifting and retention, as does the uprated spring and pivot hardware compared to the previous GX derailleur.
The new GX derailleur weighs 299-grams on my scale, 3-grams more than the old one on the same scale, and the retail price is unchanged at $125 USD.
Cranksets: That's right, there are now two GX cranksets to choose from, with SRAM adding a set of carbon fiber arms that definitely raise GX's Gucci score by a few points.
The GX Eagle Dub carbon fiber crankset is said to weigh 555-grams, or around 65-grams less than the aluminum version, and they cost $275 USD. SRAM says that they're made using very similar tech as you'll find on their pricier carbon offerings, and you'll also get a DUB aluminum spindle and direct-mount chainring.
You can now get your GX with carbon fiber cranks.
If you want to stick to metal, the aluminum version is essentially the same as its predecessor, but with a much nicer, shinier finish that sure makes them look like they cost a lot more. But they don’t. They still have the same $135 USD price tag, as well as the same 620-gram weight.
The $45 GX shifter is unchanged, aside from new graphics.
Shifter: Lastly, the GX Eagle 12-speed shifter is also basically the same as before, including the aluminum paddle and Matchmaker compatibility, but it gets the same updated graphics and 'Lunar colorway' that the rest of the group receives. There’s also a single-click e-bike version. The GX Eagle shifter still weighs 122-grams and still costs $45 USD.
Why GX Eagle Matters
When you add all of the above together, the new GX Eagle Expansion drivetrain costs $545 USD with the aluminum cranks, which is actually the same as the previous version sold for but now you’re getting a much nicer looking group that essentially weighs the same. More importantly, new GX offers an even wider gearing range; 520-percent trumps 500-percent. And remember that the 10-52 Eagle Expansion cassette doesn't have to be all about getting the lowest possible gear. Instead, you could do the math to compare it to your current cassette and install a larger chainring to keep a consistent low gear and taller high gear. In other words, use your chainring to match the Eagle cassette to your needs.
Zooming out a bit, new GX is likely going to be a big deal for SRAM. In the original-equipment world (the components your bike comes stock with from the factory), it used to be hard to find a bike that didn't come with GX. Recently Shimano began to challenge them with fresh mid-level groupsets that have performed very well. This new GX group is SRAM's move to retain that market share, and the two companies competing against each other means better drivetrains for all of us.
GX Eagle Expansion showed up only a few days ago, but stay tuned for a full-length review and comparison.
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What is even the point? The 42-50 jump was already big enough and now you’re going to either have a too hard gear or too easy...
and indeed that takes a 25% bigger physical jump: (52-42)/(50-42)-1
the ratio change to the smallest cog is 260% bigger than the ratio change to the largest cog: (32/10-32/12)/(32/42-32/52)-1
I’m sure this will be on tons of OEM bikes next year, but to me Deore/SLX/XT is light years ahead.
SRAM, you needed something great to go toe to toe with Shimano, this wasn't it. Literally the lamest thing SRAM could have done.
Pedal strikes, rear tire spin outs on loose terrain/slippery roots, slow strava times...
Embrace the high grind
Every design has compromises, Eagle compromises are increased sensitivity to setup and misaligned or worn parts for one huge climbing gear. I feel the long cage relies heavily on the clutch for stability in the smaller, higher gears. Once the clutch starts to wear, things get wonky in the gears you use the most.
This is why I'm running the new 45T shimano 12sp with mid cage derailleur. I feel it's a better compromise.
"I just had a stroke of genius. Are you ready? Open your mouth, baby birds, cause Mama's about to drop you one sweet, fat nightcrawler. "
what a classic!
www.pinkbike.com/photo/18850970
I have also been looking at the 10-45 cassette because I’m fit as a badger at the moment. It seems like the only short cage mech available is the XTR though. I even looked at the price of an XTR cage only, and it was £90. The XT whole derailleur is £75 or so.
What derailleur are you using?
What size chain ring are you running?
It's easier to plan your line to avoid a pedal strike when you are not spinning so hard the pedals are blurring.
Thanks that was perfect!
It's not very good.
I’m not advocating buying this cassette though. Obviously it’ll be a pile a shit because SRAM.
And just for fun, I'll add my last 2 bbs have been PF and they haven't creaked at all and my last english thread bb was a nightmare.
The usual mindless commercial from Pinkbike: Buy people! Buy!
I just picked up a hardly used norco fluid ht. She's running the full nx kit. As we all know, the cassette is a pig. What would be a good upgrade (wide range, light weight, well made, affordable). It's a standard freehub body, so i can fit perty much anything.
I don't need to switch out the derailleur/shifter, i really like the system (coming from previous gen deore 10 speed). I did just upgrade the pullies, had a set of brand new ztto's hanging in storage. Anodized candy red looks awesome in there, and huge upgrade over the cheapo' nx pullies. Had to adjust the whole system, the new jockeys are a lot narrower/smaller dio, so threw off shifting, Now it's running sweet... See how she hold's up in the long run.
I'm thinking a slx 11-46 cassette would be awesome, or something along those lines... What ya think?
I know sunrace makes perty good stuff, especially for the price. Maybe i can get a older slx 11 speed groupo', cheap. Have lots of thinking/looking to do, thanks for the tips.
Then I bought a 19 Remedy w/GX that's now at about 1300 miles now. No issues at all after the initial adjustments. I haven't tried the new 12 speed xt yet, and I'm sure it's the best thing since sliced bread- all I'm saying is that SRAM makes a decent product in my experience. And many people I've ridden with have eagle and they're riding 3 to 4 times a week and they haven't had the bad issues reported here.
I think i'm going to go with XT 11 speed (11-46t). Full groupo' sell for $200-$250 off ebay, depending on seller. Going to ride the nx till she falls apart, then upgrade... Think it's better to upgrade fork first, and setup wheels tubeless, then do the drivetrain bits. Since i put aftermarket pullies in there, she's running smooooth. Did the same thing with the deore, upgraded to xt pullies, made a world of difference.
Now to figure out what fork to go with...
Any idea on a half decent air, or coil air fork?
I upgraded the fork on my old ht, to the Manitou Markhor, schweet fork. I'm running suntour xcr 34 coil right now. It's fine for right now, again, use it till it fall's apart.
“yeah try riding some real mountains with your 34t 11–42t setup”
Also riders from outside the UK
“Man it’s impossible to spin out a 32x10 on the trail”
I would use a higher gear than 36x10 on my mountain bike on the road. I spin out 32x11 all the time. I ride quite a bit on the road that's why.
A wide range is great for some people!
What's the wheel size/travel on your Suntour fork, what's your cash money budget for a new fork?
Umm, running 27.5+ (2.8 Minion Front, on 35mm rims), and 120mm travel (which can be bumped out to 130).
I would say i max out at $500 Cdn. Thinking of taking a look in the second hand market, new takeoff 2018 Fox 34 can be had for under $400... Or should i steer clear of Fox (because of them being a pain to maintain/fix). Know Manitou is incredibly easy to maintain, as are Suntour's better stuff. Maybe i could go with radon, and beef up the eternals?...
So many options out there, it's hard to wrap me foggy brain round all my choices.
That I was buying one over the other is pretty much how all my financial decisions have gone.
@tgent:
Than I went to check the situation in our fridge. 12 different cheeses.
I guess you just need to change the country to have both
And saying 'That's 3.9% more range than the standard Eagle 10-50' sounds a bit $h1t doesn't it?
When gears go from 500% to 520% range PB calls it 20% where I call it 4%. Perspective I guess, lol.
A 10-52 isn't 20% more range, it's 20 percentage points more range. Very important distinction.
It’s not the change between 2 cogs but overall range of the whole system
(30÷10/30÷50)100% = 500%
(30÷10/30÷52)100% = 520%
But then again, if you are pedalling along in 30/50 and shift to 30/52, without changing cadence, you would be going ~4% slower
ps: I’ve had my coffee and am calm now and no longer raging
But I guess we have exceeded 100% for capacity to accept marketing BS
52/10 = 5.2 range
50/10 = 5 range
Multiple by 100 if you want a percentage range ("Percentage" means per one hundred)
5.2/5 = 1.04
Meaning, the new derailer has 1.04 times the range of the old one. Or in other words, 4% more range.
Personally, i think percentage ranges are the wrong concept to use and just confuses the issue. It is just easier to say a gear range of 5.2. The largest cog is 5.2 times the size of the smallest. Then just use percentages to describe changes in the gear range. In this instance, the new range is 4% wider than the old one.
I've taken the liberty to remove any mention of pulling stumps with a bicycle as there are better tools for the job.
Cassette*
The bright side is my 0 range cassette does save a lot of weight.
It's just MEGA.
What's the increase from 500 to 520 grams? it's 20 grams absolute or 4 % relative.
What's the increase from 500 % to 520 % range? it's 20 % absolute or 4 % relative.
This is the PB comment section, please quit confusing the sheep with concisely expressed logic.
Also, yours should be in the running for comment of the year.
(44÷11/22÷34)100% = ~618% for an old Shimano 3x9
WOW! Sram still has a long way to go. They will need a 55-9 or 61-10 cassette to get close
As for seeing more GX than XT on the trails, Sram has had threads bringing up issues since release, and I still can't find one for Shimano other than a single review being unhappy with the clutch. Anyways, just my .02 (not that anyone asked for it).
youtu.be/SBKufxRJwOw
I find the "shift under load" thing to be hype. I have noticed very little difference in the real world. One shifts up slightly better, one shifts down slightly better. But equal out in the end. I like the double shift on the XTR, but also like how easy the GX shift button works. DOwnshift levers feel different, but no real perceived difference. XTR is lighter of course, but, the GX is on a 40 pound bike, so weight isn't my concern.
When I say I prefer the Sram, I mean it be such a slight amount as to be a silly thing to argue about. Both of them work great. And unless I find that the XTR cassette dies SUPER fast, I have no desire to drop either system from either bike. I will, with time, upgrade the shifter to XO1, but that's my only change there.
I did a 12 hour day on the XTR (12000'), then two days later did an 8 hour day (8000') on the GX. BOTH of them worked as expected.
These things are supposed to work when they’re a little worn, they’re MTB parts. Unfortunately, with more gears jammed into the same space, a little wear creates a major decline in performance.
Personally I did just fine with 11-42t. My new bike came with 11-50t and I definitely use it.
@RonSauce you don’t, that’s just more nonsense. If you can set up a shimano mech you can set up any other mech and other than cable tension won’t have to adjust it again.
Until Microspline, you could do the Shimano shuffle, move all your parts along to next bike in the pecking order upgrade it.
Seriously considering upgrading to GX11 on that one too.
Which is why my top of the line (several years ago) cassette creaks like crazy if I don't keep it lubed up. Maybe it's not a problem in places where you don't have Australian moon dust, but whatever. My 10 year old SLX/Zee/XT doesn't suffer from this.
Shimano 51t
Sram 52t
Can I make a bold prediction that Shimano Will release a 53t pie plate next..?
at some point there will be a cassette that you can only use with 29" wheels because it would hit the rim on 27.5
all hail advancement of technology
Shimano's front pull side swing derailleur shifts better and more problem free than any rear derailleur, but I guess too late for that now (although some people are saying chain stays are getting too short)
Also, for the folks nostalgic for front derailleurs... please no. We have it SO GOOD right now, don't put that evil on us.
Personally had to deal with first gen guides. Meanwhile the cheap deore level Shimano brakes have had zero issues. Absolutely love my zees.
SRAM is a fine company, they have warrantied everything I've had an issue with and for the most part I hear the same for others. But I'd much rather just buy a product that genuinely works than one have to deal with warranties.
Shimano also knows it has a strong fanbase. Sram is still proving itself. And companies are spec'ing Sram on their bikes bc they get deep discounts, especially when combining with RS suspension.
Overall, they both work and are good products. it would just be nice to see Sram perfect it's products before always chasing after the next new thing..
- assume SRAM has not fixed anything because they didn't explicitly state it in the press release
- assume SRAM has not invested in R&D and learned from previous issues to make it better
- assume SRAM is simply too dumb & shallow that they can't see past trying to one-up Shimano
- assume SRAM spends more money on advertising than they do on product development
- assume SRAM is just a soul-less bunch of money-hungry asses who don't get excited about riding bikes
- assume SRAM is chasing a next new thing when they simply developed a 52t option on an existing platform
- assume the new Shimano stuff is the greatest because their older Shimano stuff was bomber when their biking fun peaked 5 years ago
- assume Shimano spent all that time perfecting the performance of the 12s - when in reality they spent A LOT of time trying to sort out the manufacturing and figure out how to get people to adopt their new driver body interface
I'm consistently surprised - regardless for the company releasing new product - at how upset PB'ers are with the bike industry. It's a storm of ungrateful hate with every release (except Shimano drivetrain and the Ripmo AF...) - resenting almost every new product release as if bikes have not been getting more and more awesome.
Heavy carbon cranks?
2% easier pie plate gear than shimano?
How about tightening manufacturing standards and improving shifting performance and reliability?
At least it doesn’t go to 13
This is "innovation" on par with the shoe industry.
Ready?
Set.
...
I still think there is room for the fifteen year old alternative. Mount a geared hub inside the frame and run a single chain between frame and rear wheel. Rohloff was the fancy option but 8sp Nexus/Alfine could possibly suffice. A bit more weight, a bit more drag but a whole lot cheaper and possibly sufficient for most.
Not sure what happened to the other alternatives (beside Pinion and Effigear). Suntour is the kind of size that if they want to push their gearbox to the market, they can. Same with the Hayes group. They bought the B1 PeteSpeed gearbox (similar to what Honda was using back in the days) but never did anything with it. Obviously now that rumor has it that Shimano may release their own gearbox at some point, I think everyone realizes that they're doomed. Shimano is the kind company that frame manufacturers trust and whose interfaces they are willing to design their frames around. And all us cheapskates just need to wait for the second or third trickle down (SLX/Deore level) to get something that's refined, functional and affordable.
Basically, they didn't pull a Shimano, all they did was give Shimano the finger with 1 extra little tooth on their largest cog, that's all this is, and for that, I applaud them, even if it's not really news that this exists.
I have XTR on my XC race bike. It is fantastic. Does it shift under load better? Nope, the same. I tried to beat on both my Sram and Shimano, and can't notice much of a difference.
I'm running this on my XC bike as well so shifting under load is very much in line with the purpose of the bike, I'm a fairly big guy with a decent power output as well so it could be down to that? I noticed the difference immediately and was kind of annoyed that a groupset that's 4 times more expensive shifted worse.
Eventually I realized that I was still naturally reducing load as I shifted, as I always had.
Over time I have slowly gotten used to shifting under power, and now going back to a bike with sram it’s immediately noticeable that the shifting is worse. With the shimano stuff I’ll also notice that on loose or sandy climbs where I’m near the limit of grip I can shift much more reliably than before, because I can shift under load, and don’t risk losing grip
Xtr I can stand up and stomp and drop gears like I'm in a double clutch sports car.
Sram would sound like shit is breaking.
It really helps on climbs
I'm not the most powerful out there. But my race results, having earned a Pro license, indicate that I am not a weak performer. Also have pretty decent race results in enduro races (and, of course, Strava).
I really doubt I'll be swapping out my 50 or 51 for anything else anytime soon though.
And for that matter, the perfectly good SRAM 11 speed is still alive and kickin'.
For those never SRAM people. Geez, you got 11 & 12 speed options out the yin-yang with Shimano, use them.
Do you remember a time when your options were between jack and jack-shit? I do, I'm old...
SRAM is not smoother. One tooth .2 mm out of whack results in chain skips, and if you don't have the b tension screw just right, it will shift like garbage. Not a problem with Shimanos.
@WAKIdesigns youtu.be/kem5Rk863WA hahah
Higher end SRAM cassettes are made better, so they don't have issues, meanwhile GX and NX have plenty because the teeth aren't as strong so slight bends cause things like ghost shifting.
To say the SRAM is smooth overall is not really an accurate thing.
On the other hand Shimano SLX through XTR all shift just fine, especially with the new Hyperglide technology. So you can say that Shimano is overall smoother than SRAM
Not sure it's worth even responding if you're going to type stuff like that, maybe you meant drivetrains only, which is still wrong, just less so. If you're going to say a Lyrik RC2 or Code RSCs are hot ass, you're just saying silly things on the internet to defend your love of Shimano. Some free advice, Shimano will never love you back. They'll just sell you shit. Sometime it's good (new 1x12), sometimes not (their brakes).
I've ridden SLX 1x12, it isn't a crisp/precise, and the derailleur sure as shit isn't built as well as X01. In fairness, you're less likely to hit that derailleur thanks to Shadow, but it's still a concern. Whether or not it's worth the price difference is a conversation worth having, but I wouldn't value them equally. If somebody was selling an X01 drivetrain for the same price as SLX, I'd jump on X01.
People can have varied and nuanced opinions about brands and products, but "derp, derp SRAM is garbage" is just silly.
Products from sram and any of their subsidiaries don’t have any real engineering in them, they’re only made to be marketed well and any intelligent human being should be able to see that. Henceforth, they are guaranteed to be hot ass because they lack real engineering, which is not only extremely, extremely disappointing coming from a German company, but an embarrassment to the germans’ reputation for being great engineers.
As for mechanics, I know one of the better ones in town, and he always remarks how nice my X01 shifter feels, and how much he loves my Code RSCs. Most major reviewers agree about the codes as well. Like what you like, but Shimano does not have the market cornered on good components. I'd actually say they're behind most other manufacturers with brakes because they refuse to fix their bite point issues. Again, most major publications agree. Boy did the fanbois howl on this site whenever a reviewer has the audacity to describe the reality of using Shimano brakes.
As to which drivetrains/brakes come into shops more, it's pretty simple. SRAM has owned the MTB drivetrain/brakes market for a few years. The bulk is their lower end stuff, sold to new riders. Shit breaks. I've owned shimano drivetrains and brakes (although never owned 1x12), it's not magically better or more reliable. Do like shadow though, and I think their clutch is marginally better.
Still doesn't make SLX "better" than X01. Doubt anyone who has ridden both would agree, unless you really have some preference for weak derailleurs and sloppy shifting. It would be like arguing that Level Ts are better than XTs because of wandering bite point. Just fanboi stuff.
reference please for that lab test? complaining about lack of power in codes just shows you probably haven't ridden them.
Here's what I can find
enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy
Oops, best in test went to Code RSC. And anyone talking about a lack of power in the new codes is just delusional. I'm going to the park today, and not using bigger than 203 rotors, and I weight 200 lbs, so guess your assurances are meaningless about what SRAM riders need are made up too.
If you think Fox "benefits the consumers" any more than SRAM, you've never had to warranty anything through those a*sholes. Nightmare of shipping costs, "diagnostic" fees, and then arguing that they should fix a design defect in their abomination DRCV. Only to have it blow up again 6 months later. But, I'm not a complete moron, so I still recognize that they are making some great forks. Same with SRAM. The new debonair is not "worse," those still ride great. Guess you needed to pretend they were holding you back or something, but pretty much everybody's middle tier to high end stuff is amazing right now. Much better than the CTD/MoCo days.
"Products from sram and any of their subsidiaries don’t have any real engineering in them"
You are just delusional dude. $RAM is evil because they keep making products people want! What do you think other companies are doing right now? Do you need to tell us what the mean SRAM employee did to you? What is "real engineering?"
Overall, drivetrains are better now, brakes are better now (except Shimano, which got worse somehow), suspension is better now. Some of this was driven by SRAM, releasing good products. Send me all your SRAM components so I can safely dispose of them, I'm sure you're worried about whatever mind control radiation the evil "marketing" people in that company must have embued them with to make them popular. I mean, reviewers are always saying how good they are...
I wasn’t talking about a customer service standpoint when I said Rockshox doesn’t benefit the consumer, I meant from an outright product performance standpoint. Fox suspension actually has external adjustments, unlike Rockshox, which is why in all the dialed videos you see them saying their riders aren’t on custom tunes. From a performance standpoint the new debonair isn’t better than the old one, it’s just made so people will stop bitching about the bike sagging under its own weight which indicates supple suspension, but people are too stupid to understand that.
How many of the sram subsidiaries make anything that has features with their purpose meant to be anything but another point for marketing their products? I’ll wait, but spoiler alert, you won’t find any. There marketing department rules their company which is why sram keeps on pumping out trash every single production year, and it gives a bad name to their German roots.
You’re calling people out for being fanboys, but you suck Sram’s dick so f*cking hard you can’t see any of the blatantly obvious flaws in their company. And for the record, I’m not a shimano fanboy, I just despise sram because the value money more than the experience of their consumer with their products. I respect good engineering and products when I see it and nothing from them has an ounce of quality engineering in it, nor any better to the consumer than literally any other option on the market.
I’ve ridden the codes in Wyoming where there are descents 10 minutes long and they are half decent at best. I’d much rather have brakes that feel like light switches so I can tell exactly how much I’m braking and actually being able to feel the power than having no idea how much braking I’m doing with how soft and weak sram brakes feel. Ideally, if I had the money I’d go out and buy trickstuff maximas with the power pads and 223mm rotors for my trail bike and enduro bike.
So funny that you drone on about SRAM being money grubbing, when Shimano refuses to provide brake parts to end users because they want you to have to buy a whole new assembly. All companies are trying to get your money. All companies do shitty things, I'm happy to call out SRAM (SX...) Shimano (their whole brake line at this point), Fox (DRCV still stings), whoever.
Weird that SRAM products don't have external adjustments. Do you think that altitude sickness made me imagine the LSC/HSC knobs on my lyrik? You just don't seem to know very much about bikes my dude. Enjoy your amazing "10 minute" descents, can't imagine what that must feel. Real Chuck Taylor to ride at the envelope like that.
At least shimano isn’t as bad with providing service parts and making quality products as the og guides that they didn’t fix until people’s brakes seized mid ride, and then they complained about it. The only problem with shimano brakes is their “wandering bite point”, which only people who don’t run shimano brakes complain about.
None of srams stuff has more than 10 clicks of adjustments, and what they have, like on the rct3 cartridges, doesn’t work after a certain point, which has been proven by dyno tests. None of their products have real merit from an engineering standpoint either, their only purpose is to be a cash grab, even more so when they shit themselves from their poor design. That’s why all the forum posts are about sram products shitting themselves.
You clearly have no interest in having a civil conversation, so I’m done here. You also suck sram off too hard to see any other opinion than your own. Regardless, I can say with confidence, Mr. Know-it-all arm chair engineer, that I know more about bikes than you ever could, so don’t even think about telling me about how much I know about bikes. Especially as I’m an engineering major, you have no grounds to talk about my knowledge of bikes.
Actually, I had those guides. They seized once. SRAM paid to have my bike shop fix them, took maybe 1 week, permanently solved the problem. Whereas Shimano continues to pretend wandering bite point doesn't exist. Not sure how you rank Shimano better.
Please link to the dyno tests that show LSC/HSC do nothing. You keep asserting a lot, yet providing no evidence.
"Especially as I’m an engineering major"- oh man, did you think that was actually a big dick when you tried to swing it? that explains why you believe your biases over objective reality. Good luck on the degree, I have a doctorate, so please, f*ck off. Lots of articles on the subject, but here's one you can read for free (assuming you're actually a student and not just larping to win an internet argument).
www.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/magazine/12FOB-IdeaLab-t.html
You've just completely lost it in a discussion about SRAM vs. Shimano. Dude, I don't know what kind of stresses you have in life right now, but you might want to take a breath and stop going crazy on the internet over brands of MTB equipment.
The difference is there in weight and feel, not shifting quality.
I don't agree with people who can't tell the difference between shifting in SLX and XT. IMO, X01 1x12 shifts better than any other drivetrain I've used (have not done XTR or XX1 in recent years). Smoother up and down. I've spent some time on SLX 1x12, it wasn't crisp, particularly on the ups. I wouldn't throw it out, or even buy a bike based solely on X01 vs SLX, but I would value X01 somewhat higher. Shifting under load isn't important to me, mostly because I've already built the habit. It's kind of like no-lift shifting in a manual car. Not important to re-learn for me, but great minds can disagree about it.
I also have this weird fear that I will break the hyperglide + chain shifting under load, on account of all the watts I put out (/s).
Glad to see Shimano offers a similar cassette for their drivetrains. IMO it’s all 95% of people out there need and it saves weight.
www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmz91x
And 51T cassettes:
www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/csmz913
But you won't get a nice Pinkbike article :-(
fr.aliexpress.com/item/32845744688.html
726g though. But who cares it is in the center of the wheel, not so critical if it is 200g heavier.
SRAM: 32, 36, 42, 52t
One is a more usable low end range. One is pissing on your leg, calling it rain.
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Few weeks ago I did a 12000' (XC bike) day, a rest day, then an 8000' (40 pound enduro) day.
Except SS riders, they hate all gear ratios.
Should probably add that to the article?
Seems like this was all an excuse to change a potentially flawed derailleur design, and pretend it was about hitting the 52. Makes no sense to me either way.
Here is what I really want tho:
Highend 11 sp with lightweight 10-50 cassette and awesome shifting under load with double (or triple) down shifting.
I love the Eagle range but I don't need so many dang gears...but I DEF don't want huge skips like this new GX cassette has or the similarly trashy designed Shimano XT 11sp cassette had. You can tell its junk when they just bolt on a bigger pie plate to catchup in the numbers game. Tho at least SRAM updated the derailleur to handle it.
Excerpt from: bikerumor.com/2020/06/11/sram-eagle-flies-higher-with-new-52-tooth-cassette-first-rides-actual-weights
"The new, wider 520% range cassette options will be available for GX, XO1 and XX1 groups, mechanical and AXS."
This made me laugh the most. They couldn't make it play nicely with the casette it was designed for! My last bike came with GX 12sp and it was utter crap.
The fact there are so many comments on here highlights just how shit GX 12 speed is.
Shimano 10 or 11 speed with well spaced ratios all the way. (Sunrace cassettes have great spacing)
Also for curiousity, I just fitted the Microshift Advent 10 speed on my trail bike and it is awesome. 11-48 gives everything I need, and I use every cog. That fact the mech, shifter and cassette cost less than a GX cassette alone is just a massive bonus.
I'll never run SRAM on anything again.
This made me laught the most. SRAM couldn't make the GX mech work well with the cassette it was designed for, why would this one be any different! My OEM GX was utter crap.
Changed it for 11sp XT for the same price as a GX cassette and just pedalled that 46 slightly harder. (Actually used a Sunrace cassette for better steps between gears.
Have also tried Microshift Advent 10 speed recently - 11-48 and the whole set up cost less than a GX cassette. It works really well and I actually use all 10 gears.
10 gears is enough for 99% of my riding if the range and spacing is right.
I'll never run a SRAM product again or buy a bike with any fitted. Expensive, over-hyped crap.
SRAM, thanks for offering more cool stuff at the same price. Shimano is cool too. Pick whatever you like and leave the negativity at the the door.
I've been running SRAM for the past 10 years now and have no complaints, except a year or two ago I ran their NX 12 speed and that was junk (two derailleurs broke). But again, it was their cheapest stuff at the time and that's kind of what you expect from the cheapest stuff. Fortunately, it was under warranty and they stuck behind it and gave me replacements.
Maybe it's not a non-sense update to other people. They aren't charging any more for it so who cares.
SRAM: 32, 36, 42, 52t
SRAM is a single bailout gear, Shimano is certainly more usable.
I love bikes, beautiful frames, powerful brakes and plush suspensions... but I always feel cheated when it comes to drive trains. OMFG look at the price of that mid level product!
SRAM is guilty of driving up the cost of MTBing for the masses big time. I would love to see bike brands branch out on OEM equipment with other brands than the two big S. Breaking up this Oligopoly would benefit all! More power to DVO! SunTour! BOX ! TRP!
"HA look at our 51 tooth cassette!"
"f*ckin losers, your cassette only has 51 teeth
And for XC, you need the bigger front ring with smaller rear cogs for speed. Pro XC guys run 36 chain-rings because they can put out a f*ckload of power and thus utilize the extremely low gear of 36/10 for high speed sections.
Can’t type.
I'm more and more tempted to try out Shimano's 12spd groups for my next bike.
And while I'm not one to say '8t is a massive jump' as it's the percentage jump that matters (the 10-50 cassette has most jumps of around 15 to 20 %), meaning I don't mind the 42-50 jump on the standard cassette, going straight to a 52 cog without increasing the 42 is a bit weird and a bit 'jumpy' if I'm honest...
But that's the key, it's the easy way out. And this easy way out is the 'Megadrive' huge step of a sprocket that was otherwise seen in supermarket bikes. On an XX1 drivetrain.
I'll be buying a 50-10T cassette, don't worry, it's just such an obvious 'one-up Shimano' move that it hurts. That's the issue I have here, we're being fed 3 clicks in a CAD program (overexaggerating, of course) as something completely new.
I have zero problems with jumps on the 50t version, they are mostly the same across the cassette and are the same as they were in the days of 9spd cassettes (I have graphs). Shimano's jumps are similar but slightly different at the big cogs. Now Sram actually have did throw out all common sense and made this. Like I said, purely for marketing reasons. Yet Shimano easily did the rhythm cassette with completely separate gear ratios.
That's my issue, zero effort, duct tape fix kind of development.
On the other hand there are plenty of products out there which I would never see a need for personally, but I don't go out of my way to take issue with the companies that produce them.
I am by no means the kind of person that says 'get fitter' or 'walk', I'm all for riding. Going from a 1x11 to 1x12 has been a revelation, even though I'm in fairly good shape. And I have a 30T chainring on my 29er with a 10-50T cassette with no ideas about going to a 32T. If anything i'd sooner put on a 28T ring as opposed to a 32T.
But adding 2 teeth to the cassette just to say 'ours is +1 to yours'? Kindergarden marketing.
I have 476% on my hardtail which is the bike I ride the most... and it`s quite enough...
... with a SRAM X9 10spd + a 11-42 Sunrace cassette AND!
and: a old trick: no front derailleur but 2 rings, narrow wide, 30 and 34teeth, that I shift SOMETIMES with the best front derailleur in the world: my fingers
Discreet, efficient, adaptive, cheap, and good looking with color pimping!
and shifting a ring with fingers takes about 6 seconds twice of 3 times a ride
I mostly ride the 30teeth; the 34 is more long downhills, flat XC sessions, bmx tracks...
Using a 10spd set is cool and efficient, my Sram X9 derailleur is solid, I find good deals with cassettes and chains, and having 2 chain rings allows me sharper settings according to each terrain...
The advantage of keeping a 104-64mm crankset : versatility
Just goes to show how little SRAM understands their base. Why they didn’t entirely change the ratios to fit the 52t gear is beyond me.
"Its predecessor's parallelogram is shorter and while it will sorta work with the Eagle Expansion cassette, SRAM says they'd rather you didn't pair the two."
Or in normal conversation - they want you to spend more money and buy kit as they want to sell more - the old stuff will work, but spend the cash as it will work better as you'll feel it does for spending more cash.
My conclusion having ridden this set up for 5 years is that for anything so steep that I can't get up with a 42, I'm better off walking... in terms of speed, level of effort required, and it's generally nice to stretch the legs every so often mid-ride.
GX on the other hand seems to be plagued with a plethora of durability and quality problems. Cassette teeth developing random "wonky teeth" that cause the drive train to knock and skip. Pins in the rear derailleur parallelogram developing so much play in just 2500km that the derailleur becomes impossible to setup to shift decently in whole range. The ratchet in the shifter randomly skipping and dropping cogs all the way to smallest all of a sudden.
No sure what SRAM is thinking with this one. GX Eagle had many complains, but lack of range was not really one of them.
If you do more than 3000km of mountain biking in 6 months hats of to you.
I'm really interested to see how well the XTR chain wears too.
SMDH ????♂️
I was riding Bryce and St George two weeks ago (Barrel, Zen, Kentucky Lucky, and Thunder Mountain). I'm actually going back this weekend, but bringing the roadie to ride with the GF and then hiking/running Zion. GF is an ultra runner, I paced her at the Bryce Canyon 50 two weeks ago.
New SLX cassettes are $99 on eBay, deore should be below that soon.
I've popped a pin on both a new 11 and 12 sp. GX cassette. Pop a pin, skip a shift. Pop a pin break a cog.
SLX is the new XT for me.
For historical reference 50 years ago I had 2 bikes. One had Shimano, the other was the popular Sachs/Huret Sedis (preSRAM takeover) drivetrain. The rivalry and commentary was the same as now. Campy and Sun Tour were in the mix. 40 or so years ago Kozo Shimano walks into the shop and he is checking out the new Gripshift shifters attached th his drivetrains......
The power transfer through the pins to a soft metal. I have never broke one, but people gripe about the cassette getting loose. That leads to sloppy performance
I did try a non-narrow/wide upper flywheel and it solved the problem, but shifting was poor because the flywheel used had too much lateral movement.
I can’t wait for my old GX eagle to wear out to replace it with.....12 sp Shimano XT
bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/2021-sram-eagle-gx-mountain-bike-group-tech-detailscomparison-to-original-06.jpg
The 50/ 52T isn't necessary for many stronger riders and adds 100+ grams, additional shifts, and eats up ground clearance.
This cassette range would be great in whistler or squamish but pointless in most locations that don't have steep, long climbs. I don't think I could stand spinning that granny gear to go slower than walking pace. A few years back I paid close attention to the gears I actually use and now run an XT 11-40 with a 32t ring up front (11 speed). I use the full range on every ride and rarely want for easier gearing, even on a techy 20 minute grinder climb.
Yeah, I'd say pass, Shimano XT is here and it actually works.
Imagine, just for a moment, that you can backpedal in any gear, jump two gears at a time, and shift under some load. I know, it sounds crazy, but that's how it goes if you ride Shimano 12sp.
Pretty much SRAM is dead to me, only thing I run SRAM is some GX 165mm DUB cranks.
"Shimano 12 speed? yah they are like at this level ___ here. But us, we are like soooo high with this fresh GX!"
you people don’t understand how things work now; it’s a 100% marketing move, and your reaction is a 110% marketing win
just keep saying & posting their company name; good, bad, or otherwise it’s all brand recognition
fortunately I don’t need a new cassette, and hence a 1,000% range of no cares given, but nobody cares about my 2% of a dollar
.
It’s natural for a component manufacturer to make improvements along with the the addition of new features, but improvements for their own sake suggest a more negative narrative about the original product in the mind of consumers.
Who the hell had that "brilliant" idea?? Fire the dam genius...
And you can't run a larger chainring because 36t is the limit on most frames & it's hard enough to find one that big.
Someone at Sram: "Mother. f*ckers."
At this rate, we are going to need a new, larger wheel size. These cassettes are going to be too big.
I love when people who don't understand math properly try and explain things in words...
The SLX I just installed on my otherwise gx drivetrain. Super easy set up, shifts better than GX and not made of cheese.
Why add more weight to your bike and huge jumps in gears? Makes no sense and looks absolutely ridiculous.
I’m with you, I like a lighter weight setup. I run a 30t up front to help with climbs. 11-45t 10sp in the back.
I’ve been there. I bought some stuff that I though was awesome. Only to realize I didn’t need it or like down the road.
Unless you are racing no one is pedalling 32-10 off road. 90% of consumers are riding a drivetrain that has several compromises so that the 1% racers have a good range and the 9% wankers can complain about how they spin out if they have 11T rather than 10T (which only happens on their way to the shops).
It is a mountain bike, for climbing up mountains so that you can ride down flowy single track or tech gnar where you don't have to or are too scared to pedal.
If you need to be pedalling to be going faster than 37 kmph (32T - 10T @ 90 rpm cadence) on the way to the shops then take your road or gravel bike to do that chore.
Hahaha gravel bikes are absolutely ridiculous, it wouldn't matter what I was riding I would never have one of them.
I ride my megatower everywhere.
Some of the places I ride how long sections of single track that are more fun the faster you go, and yes I do spin out although not that often now I've moved up to 32-10.
Besides that I some times do road miles on it. Yes it's hard work but as road riding is boring as f*ck and the only reason I do it is for some fitness I'd rather do a harder short ride than spend money on another bike just to make the ride easier.
So i guess axs works with it
Also-SRAM used to have a generous warranty policy, so at least you'd get your crappy parts replaced quickly. That's changed in the past year, so if one of their new products sucks (again!) good luck getting it taken care of!
www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13803
I dunno? To capitalize on a really trendy slogan these days of things that matter?
Except this just f*cking doesn’t.
www.bikeradar.com/features/why-shimano-decided-to-create-a-new-freehub-standard/#:~:text=Why%20XD%20wasn't%20an%20option&text=Shimano%20prefers%20to%20use%20stamped%20cogs%20mounted%20to%20a%20spider.&text=In%20order%20to%20use%20an,and%2012%2Dspeed%20XTR%20cassettes.
*Reads this article*
*Weeps silently*
If you need an easier climbing gear, get a smaller chainring, not a cassette with a bigger climbing gear. With a 10 tooth small cog, a big chainring isn't really necessary.
For any steep and/or technical trail, though, you aren't going to be mashing on the pedals that often, and carrying speed will depend more on braking and technique. Yes, a larger chainring would still be better and I might be slower because I don't have one, but it's not as important.
Also, a smaller chainring means less pedal kickback and is less likely to get smashed or hung up on a rock.