A Sneak Peek at Galfer's Prototype Hydraulic Brakes

 My thoughts exactly. I don’t like combined clamps for several reasons, this being one of the main ones.

 @rbsnyder333: keep in mind its a crude prototype

 @Gibnos: I actively dislike matchmaker-style clamps. I prefer individual clamps for, more than anything else, individual torque settings for each individual control. Above all it lets each control rotate around the bar during a crash, and not every brake/shift/drop lever is built the same and I purposefully make some looser/tighter than others.

 @rbsnyder333: but the matchmaker rotates each control at the same exact rate, so when you re-align it, you only have to eyeball the brakes, and voila! your shifter/dropper levers are aligned. I torque the bar clamp less than the control bolts.

 ………. Prototype

 @rbsnyder333: yes in a perfect crash scenario, your brake lever rotates up or down instead of snapping, and if it does still snap, your shifter isnt dangling off together because it's on it's own clamp.

 @jray152: As if prototypes and final versions never resembled each other? It’s a perfectly fair thing to comment on considering what this proto looks like.

 @blissindex: totally true. Quick realignment is easier with a single clamp. But it’s all a game of compromises, and due to the various things I consider when setting up my bike, I prefer independent clamps.

e.g. if I get weird on trail and smash my knee into my controls from below, I’m fine with my dropper or shift lever moving a bit, I can deal with that. But I wouldn’t want my brake lever rotating upward along with the other control.

 Matchmaker type clamps just don't fit all hands.... Separate does.

 @naptime: exactly, I guess most people dont even consider this. To this das, shifters have a Bad position for my thumb.
Modify the leaver every time I got a new one.

 Experts and other specialists are out.

 The brake master is designed such that you can clamp shifters etc to the reservoir body. You're not getting fewer clamping options, you're getting more! Just remember, gripshift is being frowned upon.

 @Serpentras: agreed, even in the best psition I can get I'm still pulling thumb way back off the bar to down shift. (I was a 4Xer so my priority is up shifting)

 @naptime: no, sometimes separate does not. I am also a fan of separate clamps, but I've had instances where I could only achieve a nice fit with a matchmaker.

 @toast2266 but the levers are so long, you can mount your rear shifter, dropper remote, front shifter and two remote lockouts between the grip and brake laver clamp

 That font of the “G” on the caliper made me chuckle. Gatorade for brake fluid.

 @onawalk: thanks for the kind comment. I’ll refrain from sharing why I do things in the future, it’s obviously a burden upon the entire PB community. How dare I think my experience is worth discussing with others.

 @onawalk: Right back at ya, thank you for the feedback. I should probably reevaluate and take all of my experience as a mechanic/instructor and start keeping all that garbage to myself. I really don't know what came over me, thinking I could have an opinion on what works for me. Now excuse me while I go change my entire bike setup so it's less offensive to your expert sensibilities.

 @rbsnyder333: No need to change anything, thats the whole point ( I think)
You can literally have/enjoy the things you like without having to justify any of them. Your reasoning can literally be, "I like multiple clamps cause thats how I like em" And thats cool.

Funny that you felt the need to let me know youre a mechanic and instructor....me too, I just couldnt figure out a way to work it into this exchange, now I have, spectacular!

PB seems to be under the impression that everything needs to have a well thought out reason that youll die over, the whole rest of the world doesnt give two shits, so none of us should either...

Again, youre totally wrong, cause matchmaker is definitely the way, but its all cool man (imagine this with some sarcasm)

 @onawalk: I think what you saw as justification was really just me explaining why I like something in the first place. I don't just like multiple clamps for the sake of multiple clamps. I like multiple clamps BECAUSE of the reasons I gave, and more. I'm not some crusader against tidy cockpits.

Only mentioned my experience so I might not come across as an holier-than-thou keyboard warrior who spews BS with no real-world experience or forethought. Not necessary to bring up, that's acceptable.

No reason to lump me in with PB in general. I hardly ever comment or wade in. I just had the spare time today, I guess. I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around how me saying "oh wow, some people like thing X, but I like thing Y, and this is why I happen to prefer thing Y" is somehow pathological or not worth sharing with people who are engaging in a conversation about it.

To your own point... if the rest of the world doesn't give two shits about any of this stuff, and there's no reason to care about what's said here, why are you so hellbent on nitpicking about how I or other talk about it?

Hell, maybe you've just been trolling all along. In which case, happy we got to waste some time together!

 @rbsnyder333: My sincerest apologies, I thought the sarcasm was fairly apparent, I do wish there was a font for such things.

I think justification, and reasoning are essentially the same thing, no?

The whole point of lumping you, or anyone in as pinkers is to make a sweeping generalization, in reality, we all have our own opinions, some correct, some ridiculous, some down right wrong (your presumption for multiple clamps being one of them )

I will, out of sheer morbid curiousity ask what are your several reasons for disliking matchmaker clamps, or similar

 @onawalk: haha that would be a decent feature for PB to have, might tone down some of the blowout arguments people get into

Call it justification, call it reasoning, call it whatever. I just don’t get your idea that if I were to talk about my preferred spoke lacing pattern and spoke tension (just to use a non-cockpit example) in the middle of a dialogue about building wheels, it’s better for me to only say “I like 3-cross/2-cross lacing and 1150N”, rather than to engage with others on WHY I prefer those things.

Just seemed a silly thing to seem to suggest considering how much you seem to wade into technical conversations on here and give your own two cents on why one thing is better than another.

As for cockpit stuff? The “wild scenario” about my knees hitting my controls has happened several times in the past during race runs, so I decided that it mattered to me how I set things up. I’ve also crashed hard enough for a control to snap entirely off the bar—so I figured it’s better to have one single thing come off the bar rather than two (i.e. brake lever AND shifter all at once). I’m obviously an over-tinkerer and over-thinker about bike setup, and sometimes I like to try different positions for one control without affecting any of the others, especially while I’m out riding and having fun with settings. If I had MMX, I’d have to use a tool to achieve that. With separate clamps, I can use my hands since my torque is, again, always low enough that I can rotate things with a bit of force. I travel a lot and concern myself with compatibility or availability of parts overseas, and if I break something I’d rather have more ways of reattaching shit to my bar than fewer—speaking from experience here. I have so many random spare clamps at home that there’s no reason to spend extra $$ (as little as it may be) on mixed clamps that do nothing for me, aesthetically or otherwise. Lastly, I run Hayes brakes, and their Peacemaker clamp provides a pretty lame range of adjustment for shift/drop levers.

 ^^^ would you two just bang already?

 @rbsnyder333: oooh weee, is that a well considered, well reasoned, and well articulated argument/reasoning/justification for your opinions, I appreciate it immensely, (no sarcasm inferred)

As noted previously, you are welcome to expand on all your opinions as much as youd like, I was hopefully just trying to let you know that you dont need any sort of justification/reasoning for enjoying the things you do, regardless of what the greater PB commenter section would have you, or anyone else believe.

I do tend to weigh in a far too much with technical non-sense, and am usually met with such hateful/ignorant reasoning's that it in turn has me push on a little too much, and prolly come off as a bit of a di*k. (one gentlemen was so furious at the thought of being skilled on clipless pedals was on par with skill on flats that he was reduced to a whirlwind of insults and rage, over pedals!)
However this time, you've provided sound reasons for your ingrained opinions, and I very much appreciate that, so Thank You for that (again, I think youre dead wrong, and I friggin love MatchMaker comparability, but youre only wrong for me)

Its interesting to think that some of the reasons you choose seperate clamps, are the reasons I choose matchmaker. I prefer to carry less, both on my bike, and in my pockets, and less is well, less, less to go wrong, less weight, just....less
I travel with my bike too, and prefer less things to go wrong, and match maker is readily avaliable pretty well everywhere.
I find lots of clamps are either over engineered or vastly under engineered, while matchmaker is pretty dialed.

My only wish is that the XX1 ability to adjust thumb lever position on their shifter was available in GX, cause im not interested in paying that premium for that extra adjustability

If you ever find yourself in Canadas beautiful BC region, look me up, lets go for a ride, beers on me

 @toast2266: I'll be honest the sexual tension is pretty thick, im guessing youre a bit jealous?

If youre trying to get my attention, maybe try an approach thats a little more interesting, I really engage with people who present some technical knowledge/passion, so telling me youre "an engineer" is one way.....

Also, sometimes I try a bit too hard to be right, so you could try a really firm stance on why integrated bar/stems are absolute trash, and dont allow you to change things that youll never change anyway. I guess that same argument could be made for most things.

Let me know if you need any other pointers

As a side note, this is entirely sarcasm, just in case you didnt pick that up. Its not a judgement on you personally.......Nah, it might be a little, but harmless really

 @onawalk: thanks for the reply, thoughts, and clarity.

Totally agree that nobody owes anyone else an explanation for why they prefer X, Y or Z. It sure can be fun to talk about though, especially if there’s some fun banter that (hopefully) doesn’t devolve into a total dumpster fire.

My final thought on bike setup… I’ve always said that my favorite parts on a bike are those that feel invisible. Those that work so well and so seamlessly that I can kinda forget they’re there. Those that are trustworthy or durable enough that I can ride without the nagging feeling that something might fail. Or just those that I’m so accustomed to that, even if imperfect in some sense, give me peace of mind. My guess is that, even if not superstitious or paranoid, most riders have a much better time on their bike and can ride harder when they can let the bike do its thing without any worries.

100% agree, GX would be WAY cooler if that thumb lever were adjustable. Sram could make that happen in an inexpensive way if they really wanted to.

I do make it up over the border a few times a year, would be fun to ride and figure out once and for all who’s totally wrong and who’s totally right!
p.s. my best riding buddy and I spend about 75% of our riding time together absolutely shitting on the other’s setup and component choices — idk why I get such a kick out of it.

 @rbsnyder333: By referring to components that you forget are there, I can only assume you are talking about Shimano brakes. I too forget that theyre there, cause a lot of the times when I go to squeeze that all important lever, well, theres simply nothing there.....
I've had some friends/colleagues in the past that were almost psychotic about being millimetre perfect about setups. Theres a really good chance I took it upon myself to illustrate to them that they were in fact worrying about nothing, when I'd change things on their bikes without them really noticing. Bike shop days, good times

I feel the same way about most people and their unwillingness to try new setups, but will go and buy a new bike and be happy as a clam....
I usually completely reset anything adjustable on my bike in the off season, and work on getting things dialed again during the spring. I usually come close to the previous setup, but things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes just different.

Come ride in the Okanagan, great mix of terrain, but mostly very little grip, and plenty of tech. Loads of good wineries, and even better breweries.

 @onawalk: haha those brakes sure can be a chore to deal with haha.

I sometimes even mess with myself to try to get over my constant tinkering. I’ll turn a knob back and forth a few clicks enough times that I lose count of where I started… and then when I ride I manage to have a hard time feeling a difference. Just goes to prove that equipment and settings is hardly the full picture.

Sounds like a pretty sweet area. It’s on my list. Made it up to Sun Peaks for the first time this year. Closing weekend was a hoot. Keen to ride singletrack in that part of BC.
Come ride Bellingham sometime too — surprisingly wide variety between the trails on the mainland and the islands.

 @rbsnyder333: Who doesnt love knob twiddling...but to admit here on PB that you cant, in fact, notice every little change and nuance is blasphemy, and will be noted to use against you in further debates.

Bellingham, it was on my list this year to get back there, but Squamish was too good to resist. I'm a bit of a Transition fanboy, so I've been down a couple times to ride some of the trails, had an absolute blast.
I was scheduled to help out our coaching team in Bellingham, but our numbers were down, and they didnt need me.
even just saying Chuckanuts is a good time....

 I'm in the same boat, love the basic glafer pads actually but my first thought was of the lever...

 I ran XT brakes for years and years and agree that they feel great. Great on the fingers and nice and strong.

But like you elude to, it was always a gamble every spring on that first ride after the winter if one of the levers would work or not. Having to bleed then all the time was a bummer too, even if it was easy.

The wondering bite point was a booking but could be dealt with. Something that really sucked, was if you wore the pads down too much, there was a tendency for the lever to pull to the bar at complete random; and usually when you needed it.

Said goodbye to all of that this year and switched over to Hayes Dominions. No complaints yet. Even after wearing the pads down almost all the way, they still felt great when trying to stop my fatass.

 It's the leaky calipers, wandering bite point and lack of service parts.

 People hate on Shimano brakes? I only ever see SRAM brakes get shit on.

 If shimano brakes were serviceable with at least basic seal kits and pistons, I would probably have them on all of my bikes. I just had enough of throwing calipers away every couple years along with frequent servicing. Now I have some Hope E4's and I didn't know what I was missing with consistency, low maintenance and that sweet lever feel.

 @Canadmos: i'm still running XT and haven't had any problems -I bleed them at the start of the year (pretty much a maintenance staple with everything) and when/if i change pads but that being said i'm open to anything that is a good combination of price ,performance and dependability

 @tvan5: Generally the wandering bite point gets hammered. I don't get it as I keep my brakes well serviced

 I still run Deore 4 pots, but it sure does bum me out that Shimano won’t sell seal kits to service them. By year 2 they don’t hold a bleed. Hayes, Code RSCs and Hopes are all serviceable, but its still cheaper to run Deores……..but once again SELL A SERVICE KIT SHIMANO!!!!!

 @Canadmos: when someone alludes to someone, but the meaning eludes you.

 @tvan5: You haven’t seen the roving mobs, pitchforks and torches in hand, decrying the (mythical? allegorical?) “wandering bite point” phenomenon?

 If you get Magura and change the lever to HC3 is a game changer! I run MT8 and yes i've seen review and some people don't like it but when you change to HC3 and 3rd party brake pads and it's a lot better and modulation is on point. No more arm pump and fingers sore.

 @happyboibike: Take the Shigura pill

 I've never felt the need to have a spare set of brakes in the tool box "just in case". So maybe that's a great reason not to use Shimano brakes.

Codes have been wonderful for me. But I would like to move up to something like Hayes next time I need brakes.

 @GrundleJ: I found that out after somehow shattering one of the pistons in a 4pot slx on the front. All I could find was aftermarket stuff that was a bit too expensive to make sense over the cost of a new calliper. At least I have a few emergency spare calliper part now!

 @mnorris122: i have to try again an xtr lever, but every other shimano lever have such a sticky free stroke compared to magura that i cannot stand honestly, magura + oat lever is the shit

 @Canadmos: It used to be like that, but honestly after going 8120/7120 the phenomena is so greatly reduced that it is a non-issue. I regularly ride in the winter and on slick sloppy sh*t. Was even tempted by Hayes or TRP but nah, Shimanos are working so well that I have no reason to change them. And bleeding them max twice a year.

 @Canadmos: same here. Now relying on TRP DH-R Evo to stop my fatass. No complaints so far (1 year and a half).

 @Canadmos: >But like you elude to, it was always a gamble every spring on that first ride after the winter if one of the levers would work or not. Having to bleed then all the time was a bummer too, even if it was easy.

>The wondering bite point was a booking but could be dealt with. Something that really sucked, was if you wore the pads down too much, there was a tendency for the lever to pull to the bar at complete random; and usually when you needed

This is a not an issue. Just run Redline Likewater instead of the OEM mineral oil. Cheaper or same price and better performance overall, except when you spill it and you can't see where to clean.

 People hate on every brand of brakes because at the end of the day brakes are probably one of the most complex and fussy parts on a bike. Small tolerances, tiny parts and seals, etc. All directly in the way of dirt, grime, and water while riding. Every brake will eventually cause a problem and give someone a reason to complain.

 @thenotoriousmic: Is that really your experience?

I have SLX brakes and they are not troublefree to say the least. Bleeding once a month, mysterious contaminated pads, steep and rough hills result nearly instant in that famous wondering brake point (yes I can bleed a brake). They do grab stronglly and do the job. But upgrading to XT or XTR seams a stupid move because they are the same design.

I was looking @ Hope or formula brakes, but I'm in doubt that those are a real upgrade, besides just being more exepnsive. What is you're take on it?

 @JWP: that contamination is the famous leaky piston issue. Your calliper needs replacing and yes for some reason I don’t have the same issues with XT’s except the wondering bite point and the need for constant maintenance they’re more reliable. I’ve got five or six SLX callipers in my parts bin all less than two years old.

 I keep a black rubber band inside of my grips. Every time I park the bike, I put those on the brakes. Over the course of the first week doing that, the feel improved significantly. Last bleed happend last year.

 @GrundleJ: I had my ceramic pistons break and replaced with aluminium ones. Never had wandering bite point on that.

I have another set with trp evo caliper and the lever pull starts close to the bar, but 2 pumps after the lever is where is suposed to be. Every time. Consistently wandering bite point.

 @wyorider: get some aftermarket ones. There are people selling titanium main pistons, rubber seals for the caliper and master cylinder, aluminium pistons for the caliper.. I have the titanium main piston and aluminium caliper piston on mine.

 @bikeflog: Agree. And I have Saints and XTs with over 10k trail miles on them. The light action of the lever is what I love.

 @Notmeatall: sounds sketchy to me. Reason Shimano use ceramic pistons is to protect the brake from heat, metal aftermarket pistons are going to do the exact opposite as they conduct heat.

 @nicoenduro: Oak lever is on my list for my MT7s. Thanks for the reminder

 @thenotoriousmic: I have had zero issues with it. My pads will lose efficiency long before the caliper gets warm, and I'm using metallic pads.

 @Canadmos: Wait wait wait,
Youre telling me, that youd put your bike away for the winter, then take it back out in Spring without bleeding your brakes?
Thats like a 4-6 month hiatus and you dont bleed your brakes prior to heading out?
do you also not replace cables, check bearings, service shocks and forks?

Absolute heathens!

 @onawalk: I service the bike before taking it out in the spring, that'd be nonsense to not do those things. But if you're constantly bleeding Shimano brakes and they were fine when you put them away, why would you bleed them again? Thats just a waste of time.

 @GrundleJ: I've bought replacmeent seal kits and pistons off eBay/amazon with good success. Sure, it'd be good for Shimano to offer them. But there are aftermarket options.

and Shimano brakes are so affordable, i try to sell my Shimano brakes every 1-2 years and buy a brand new set. It's usually the same, or cheaper than trying buy parts to "maintain" other brands of brakes.

 I've been on the same set of Zee's since 2015 (been on 3 bikes). Replaced the rear caliper in 2016. Bought a DJ earlier this year with Zee's, but also had to replace the rear caliper on it.

That being said, I have yet to try a brake that is better. TRP DHR EVOs feel about the same, as do Hayes Dominions... not worth the $$ to upgrade just yet imho.

 @Canadmos: Well, theyre Shiamnos, so you know youre gonna bleed em again in the spring.
especially with the differences in temps, even wile sitting in a closed system, condensation can form, which contaminates the system, so its always a good idea.

Willing to bet you waste more time on PB, and your phone than it takes to re-bleed your brakes in the Spring....so thats a silly argument

 @neons97: Thats an excellent sustainability model youve got going on there

 @onawalk: Argument invalid, I ditched the Shimano's so I no longer have the pleasure of doing monthly or more bleeds.

 It looks like they made it from parts from the plumbing aisle at Home Depot.

 I second this. Same goes for Sram’s newer brakes.

 I'd just buy different brakes

 @JLantz: not a bad solution actually. There are so many brakes out there these days, there’s no reason to get hung up due to a particular design element.
However I don’t want to see that MC orientation normalized across others brands as time goes on, so I don’t mind hearing others bemoan its drawbacks as well.

 that is a loooong lever. plenty of length to scoot that thing way far in

 Let me answer that. THIS IS A PROTOTYPE.

 @pioterski: thanks for yelling. It’s perfectly reasonable for people to comment on the orientation of the MC on this prototype. It’s entirely conceivable that the final version could resemble the same silhouette. You’re acting like the fact that it’s a prototype means people can’t comment on one of the defining characteristics that sets it apart from most other brakes…

 @mariomtblt: so you think they would use a completely different design than what's planned so serial production?

 @Muckal: doesn’t seem like it would be a very major redesign to simply allow a thin clamp to slide inside.

 @sino428: well, yeah, that's true, especially without the pressure sensor thing on top. Still I'd prefer a design with no cable tourism. Got a bit triggered by the Prototype argument.

 @sino428: *cable tourism in mind

 @Muckal: yea, totally within reason.

 You're probably right... Yuck

 My thoughts exactly

 Exactly,you can find an SRAM clamp everywhere. I do not see it like a bad thing.

 Indeed!

 They look close but not the same thing.

 100%

 Olive oil

 @theteaser: is a Spanish brand, it makes sense.

 @TIZZASPAIN: silly me I should have known.
Come to think about it that is great when you are in the middle of nowhere and need a little snack.

 this was my first thought

 I don't find anything wrong with Shimano's bleed nipples. They are the same as cars? Stick a hose on it and you can play the bubbles out nicely.

What I didn't like is the newer 4 pot puts the bleed nipple on the low side of the caliper on the front brake, which is ok for a full drain gravity bleed, but any bubbles want to climb back into the caliper.

 @ShawMac: That positioning makes sense because Shimano uses a caliper-up bleed. The key to a good Shimano bleed is to start by doing a small pull to get any bubbles that might reside in the bleed nipple. When no more bubbles are coming push everything up through the MC into the bleed cup. That low bleed nipple position makes sure any air will get forced up to the top and out.

 @ mnorris122 "Terrible bleed nipple"
No idea what you're referring to. What makes Shimano's bleed nipple any different from anyone else's?
I've been bleeding Shimano brakes for over ten years without a "nipple issue".

 @roxtar: Yes, it would work well for that process, I just wasn't using a syringe of fluid for my shimano bleeds.

 @ShawMac: I bleed every bicycle brake from the bottom up. There are often a bunch of brake line bends where air will go toward the lever much easier than toward the caliper. Why fight gravity if you can use it to help you? Shimano makes this even easier.

 @GrundleJ: Which is fine if you are doing a full fluid exchange, but sometimes I am just doing a quick maintenance bleed of the caliper to get air out of the caliper, in which case I don't want to push all the bubbles up through the brake line. Fluid in the cup up top, hose on the bleed nipple, crack, tap, bit of suction if needed, and 30 seconds later you're done.

It works for me.

 @roxtar: My beef is that the hose can slip off the nipple. Compared to Magura's threaded fittings, the old Shimanos suck. I think new Shimanos have moved to a threaded fitting? Idk been awhile since I've bled em.

 @roxtar: Most brakes dont have any. That is so wonderful.... not.
I dont understand why most dont have it.
Makes anything more easy.

 @roxtar: nope you’re doing it completely wrong. Just pull the bleed port screw out completely and just keep running fluid through it until it pours out of the calliper the correct red colour. Just do it over a bucket to catch the fluid. Basically take your Shimano bleed kit and chuck it in the bin. You only need the lever cup and plug.

 @thenotoriousmic:
Ahh, no.

I've been bleeding brakes since hydraulic brakes became a thing. I owned a bike shop for 5 years and am mechanic certified by Barnett's Bicycle Institute.
There isn't a shop mechanic in the world that will agree with you. Neither will Shimano.
Shimano's bottom up bleed is the easiest bleed system ever created. Simply push all the fluid from the bottom up into the catch cup until it's air-free. Easy peasy.

Your system goes against the laws of gravity and physics. You know, that stuff where air rises in liquid and pressure makes it even more so?

Brake fluid just dripping down without pressure will not force air out when the air "wants" to travel up. It also won't dislodge bubbles that are in the caliper or MC. It will just slide past, leaving the bubble in place.

 @Serpentras:
"most brakes don't have any... "
What?

 @roxtar: nippels, what else?

 @roxtar: well you’ve been doing it wrong this whole time and most decent mechanics do it the correct way and if you pulled out a shimano bleed kit you’d be laughed at. And saying you’ve been a bike shop mechanic for however many years doesn’t mean anything except you never had to charisma to sell bikes so they had you around back swapping mechs.

Here’s a more detailed explanation so you know for next time.

youtu.be/piWBVDh1pTE?si=WjAfrLoVYKTpk3fe

 @thenotoriousmic: you cant do it wrong If it works + other brakes need a syringe.
If you push the fluid from the top with the syringe down and open the bleed nippel, what is the difference?

 @thenotoriousmic:
Reading is an ability you seem to be deficient in. I said I owned a bike shop. I also said I was trained/certified as a mechanic by the top bicycle repair institute in the country.
I have also been trained at Shimano in their brakes. Being the designer/manufacturer, they might know a thing or two about them.

You are wrong. Sorry, it happens.

Any bike shop tech would be fired for using your approach. Well, at least corrected and then fired if he did it again. First off, it takes an easy ten minute job and turns it into what, a half hour or so for everything to slowly drain through? Second, it will waste a ton of fluid. Third, it does nothing to dislodge air bubbles. Forth, it's simply unnecessary. Shimano bleeds are so simple and work so perfectly that a blind monkey could do one.

If you can't get a good Shimano bleed with the method they recommend, you bring the word inept to new heights. God help you if you ever encounter Sram or Avids.

You are correct about one thing only. The Shimano bleed kit is a joke, but it's cheap. There are lots of good quality bleed kits that also use the CORRECT method.

Don't get me wrong, that method will probably work OK, it's just far more time consuming, wastes fluid, is messy as hell, but mainly, it's completely unnecessary given the ease and quality of the correct method.

 @Serpentras: Most brakes don't have bleed nipples?!
In what universe?
I have NEVER encountered a brake that didn't have bleed nipples. Every brake in Shimano's lineup comes with bleed nipples.

The level of misinformation on this sight is truly off the charts.

 deleted

 @Serpentras: I meant to say that all Shimano brakes have bleed nipples. Sram still uses their proprietary system.

 @roxtar: and that’s why you never allow a bike shop to work on your bike especially brakes because as you’ve demonstrated they can not be trusted with something so important. I’d be on to my second set of codes while you was still f*cking around with your bleeding edge valve and set of syringes and I’d have done it properly.

 @thenotoriousmic: Perfect.
Gotta love it when common idiots think they know more than the professionals who design and work on this stuff every day.

I assume, since your method is far more of a PITA, that you must have had poor results with the recommended system.
Seriously, if the Shimano bleed method is beyond your ability, you really should be paying someone to work on your bike. Hell you should probably be paying someone to pedal your bike.
But you're the expert, right? LOL!

At least with a bike you can only hurt yourself. Hopefully you don't work on your car's brakes.

 @roxtar: professionals like the race mechanics for the syndicate team? Yeah they agree with me to the point they actually released a video telling you how to bleed your brakes properly and why you shouldn’t do it your way and yes I do my cars brakes also I’d probably be on my second vehicle while you’re still f*cking around with your syringe's. Stand by your bullshit, tag your shop so the people reading know to avoid it especially if they want their brakes bleeding.

 @roxtar: I meant every other manufacturer, lol. But your still wrong. Search for the BR MT 200 caliper from Shimano.

 @thenotoriousmic: So you found a (as in, one) professional?!
Impressive.

I guess you must be correct. A person agrees with you.
I'm done. You can't fix stupid.

 @roxtar: by someone you mean someone who’s so respected in the industry they’ve got a job working for the biggest factory race team the sport has ever seen? Anyway does your bike shop don’t have a website? Stand by your bullshit and post the link here.

 @thenotoriousmic: You really can't read, can you?
I said I ownED a shop. You know, like in past tense. I closed it because my wife and I were sick of working 50-60 hr weeks.
I am currently an engineer at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Perhaps you've heard of it or do you need a link?

Like I said before; one person on one team. Still impressed.

 @roxtar:Because you was talking out of your arse, I’d have more chance of pushing a brick wall over than a self confessed pinkbike professional ever linking the shop they work at. well every day is a school day It’s just a much faster, simple, cleaner way to bleed your brakes and more economical on fluid and more importantly impossible to f*ck up by forcing air or dirty fluid back into the brake and hell freeze would freeze over before a pinkbiker admits they’ve lost an argument but we all know how you’re going to be bleeding your brakes next time so you’re welcome.

Ps it works with all brakes too not just Shimano just pull the plunger out of the Syringe and use it like a bleed cup.

 @thenotoriousmic: OK, the shop was called Fusion Multisport in Los Alamos, NM. We did bikes, skis, and running. Obviously, I'm not continuing to pay for the domain so there's no link but you can still google it.
I moved from Chicago in 2013 to open it and closed it in 2018 when the lease was up. I then took a job at the lab ( www.lanl.gov ) to make three times the money for a four day workweek. I now have time to ride and ski, which was why we moved out west in the first place.

As for you, I apologize. I should have just ignored you from the beginning but 5 years of bike shop ownership has made me a little sick of untrained, self proclaimed experts who think they know better than actual trained professionals who do this every day. It was far easier to just laugh and ignore people like you before the internet gave you a voice. A loud voice.

As for bleeding brakes, will your technique work? Sure.
Is it the best way to do it. Shimano, almost all professional techs, and myself would say no.
But hey knock yourself out. It's your bike.

Anyway, good luck to you in whatever you do.

 @roxtar: definitely didn’t ask for your life story and definitely don’t care about how much time you have to Ski and that’s the exact opposite of ignoring someone but anyway like is said everyday is a school day. It’s not like I’ve not wasted enough time and money on bleed kits myself before o was shown this method. Ironically I hardly ever have to bleed my brake’s anymore because is so effective at removing air from the system as it’s open at both ends it’s just a case of running fluid through the brake until it come out the calliper bleed port looking new and fresh. Any idiot can do it in any car park before a ride without a bleed kit that they’re unlikely to have.

 @thenotoriousmic: Yup.
Keep working on those reading skills. 3rd grade is coming.

 @roxtar: better luck next time.