Spotted: Pole eMTB Prototype Gets Hucked to Flat
In an evening scroll through Instagram, we see that Pole's founder, Leo Kokkonen, is doing some huck to flat testing on what appears to be an eMTB. According to his post, their new shop floor feels solid.
It's hard to tell from the clip but it looks like the bike uses a different suspension design and elevated chainstays. Check out the video below and let the rumors and speculation fly.
 | Feels solid. |
We reached out to Leo for some more information as to what we going on here and he responded with the following intriguing news about the future of his Finnish brand:
| The video's story is that our new production building is ready, and we have used the space for riding the prototype last few weeks because it is midwinter here. We were moving things with a forklift, and we got an idea that we should make at least a sender because soon the floor space is not usable anymore for riding. We just put two standard warehouse shelf railings through some pallets and off we went. The bike is one of the prototypes we produced. We experiment with different motors and batteries and see what suits best our concept. We have been developing this bike for a while now, and we have already finalized the geometry and suspension layout. Now the development is more about the motor and battery, and we are waiting for better riding conditions to complete testing. We have a new geometry concept that will be something different in the industry again. Not so big thing as the Evolink was back in 2016 but indeed a move forward and something that has not been discussed earlier. The initial thoughts about this concept are that the bike accelerates very quickly and it is nimble considering that its and long geo, long-travel e-bike. We think that kinematics and geo are spot-on for this bike. Currently, we are updating our lineup, and there will be more news from Pole next month. Stamina and Evolink are being updated. E-bike is still under development, and we'll update that later on. We can open the design process a bit more after deciding what motor and battery concept will continue. |
Our resident huck to flat expert, Jason Lucas, has already volunteered to put the machine through its paces saying, "let me know when and where it needs to be hucked."
Leo also fired over a picture of Pole's new production facility:
The building on the right, will house manufacturing, surface treatment, and offices, and the one on the left will be stock and bike assembly.
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@jclnv: What's lazy about doing twice as many laps? Work smarter, not harder.
But now the ride is twice as long as your friend’s ride, right? Well, if you have that much more time to ride, why not train harder and get fitter without the motor?
I for one have no interest in riding a bike for fitness. Never had, never will. If there is an uplift truck, a chairlift or an ebike, I will be on it.
So yes an ebike is faster.
1. They are faster uphill over a prolonged period as the rider can go faster uphill for longer.
They are not faster on flat as the motor cuts out at 15mph...past 15mph you having to pedal more dead weight.
Downhill they are the same or slower as you are already going faster than 15mph in most sections, the added weight becomes a negative to cornering agility... If E mtb's were faster downhill then no one would be buying downhill bikes anymore and buying Kenevos instead.
If we argue the point E mtbs are 'faster' than normal bikes due to it having a motor then we can also argue that the cheapo 1000w chinese bicycle is faster than a Kenevo or £8k Santa Cruz Heckler so why not just buy that instead?
In the UK all places worth riding downhill have an uplift, you drive to the top or you have a small ride uphill for say 20mins and have 1hr 30mins of downhill..in the USA it's different, yea if you have to slog it up a hill for 2 hours to ride a downhill then yea an E bike makes sense....
If you enjoy riding uphill then surely it's because you enjoy the challenge, there is nothing different about riding uphill than down except you are going much slower, not doing any jumps etc and it is harder... There is nothing fun about any of those, only if you enjoy the fact it is harder and a challenge in which case you wouldn't want an E bike.
Bare in mind e bikes don't offer full wattage assistance when just casually cruising up a hill, they may offer 150 watts of assistance in this case or thereabouts.... This amount of assistance can easily be outdone by a rider who is strong and fit vs one who isn't... The guy who squats 60kg and has an E bike is not better iff than the guy that squats 140kg or more....but the thing is the kind of guy that squats 140kg or more wouldn't buy an e bike....the kind if guy like Simon Cowell buys an E bike.
The only place you will be doing more runs is if you are going to shitty places where there is more uphill than down...yea if you have to bike 10mins up and only get 5mins down that's shit and an e bike would be better and you woukd get more runs in, but where do you know like that, that doesn't have an uplift?
If we are talking up and down for prolonged periods then that's basically XC riding isn't it.
As the guy above says it's not that we have a problem with e bikes, it's the people that ride them acting like thet are superior..it's bollocks. I have seen guys on road bikes dripping with Lycra so weak and unfit that I can pedal right past them in jeans and a backpack on with dh casing tyres and 180mm of travel. E bikes are only going to make you weaker so yea for people that own them when they get back on a normal bike they find it even more difficult than they did before, but instead of thinking I have got weaker they think E bikes are much faster... But no it's not that the e bike is much faster than the regular bike, it's that you haven't challenged your body in so long that you have gotten weaker so the difference is more profound.
www.bosch-ebike.com/us/everything-about-the-ebike/stories/three-class-ebike-system/#:~:text=Class%201%3A%20eBikes%20that%20are,assisted%20speed%20of%2028%20mph.
Class 1 e bikes cut out at 20 mph, not 15. In turbo mode they are 3-4 times as fast as a slow bike on a climb, if not faster. When I pass somebody hiking it feels about 10x faster, honestly. On the flats they are also significantly faster. On any downhill that has significant pedaling sections they are also faster overall. There are defiantly some sections on some trails where regular bikes are faster, but not many.
I only call them slow bikes on the internet, and I also acknowledge people and say hi when I pass them.
Look, your numbers are way out for start. A TDF Pro rider puts out about 300-350 w/h when racing a regular stage. A sprinter will hit around 2000w during a short, sprint effort. The key word there is “sprint”.
Olympic track cyclist Chris Hoy would hit around 2300/2400w. During a single sprint. A fairly brief one. And at which point, he’s done for the day.
You’re suggesting that regular people can sprint like that for several hours, on and off..? Like interval training? Because that would have to be the case for your argument to stack up.
You said a Ebike provides “a MEASLY 350w of power” “doubling a normal persons power at normal effort”. It’s not. 350w per hour is about what a Pro Roadie (not a normal person by a long shot) puts out when riding along during a regular stage.
And it’s not a measly amount either, particularly when it’s a continuous addition to whatever the rider is putting out (let’s say 250W on the flat). The motor can therefore perhaps double the wattage an average rider is putting out per hour.
And so for regular XC or trail riding, with several hours of singletrack up and downhill (I don’t just mean riding up the fire road alongside Hamsterly DH track / Rev’s or wherever) and several thousand feet of climbing/descending, an e-bike will smoke a regular bike for the same rider. How can it not?
Downhill? Proper downhill? Yeah sure, maybe slower. Maybe not. Probably (as ever) depends on the rider & track. Some EBikes seem pretty rapid, because the increased weight is planted, centralized and does some nice things for the sprung/unsprung mass on the suspension. But sure, a dedicated DH bike is a thing of beauty. They don’t generally climb very well though...
You mentioned about being able to ride up past the 15.5mph cutoff. So can most people, once the trail points downwards. But on rolling terrain, your average speed is going to be way lower. For example, In 2018 at the Mont Sainte Ann WC XC event, the average speed of the competitors was just under 18 kmh (12mph)... soooo, unless you ride faster then the WC XC field (while they’re racing..!), you’re going to be slower over the course of a ride. And at anything under that cutoff, you’re working proportionally harder and for longer, so you will also tire quicker.
And as to riding in “shitty places” that have more climbing vs descending... ever heard of ‘riding in a loop?’ It’s a profound concept; you finish where you started from. Several riders have been known to try it over the years. And you tend to climb pretty much the same height that you descend on these so-called “loops”...!
I don’t own an Ebike but I have ridden them in a few different places/terrain. And I found it to be much quicker then a regular trail bike ride (so several thousand feet of climbing & descents over a few hours) My $0.02
i dont even own an e bike. the amount of mental anguish expressing hate for a toy you people put yourselves thru is mind boggling.
I'm sure you are also aware that it's watts per kilo that really count (I am very aware...as I can put out healthy watts but am not "blessed" with a light body, so as soon as the incline starts....)
say you weigh 250 lbs (ebike,gear,yourself) and you can do 160+340 = 500 watts that is 4.4 watts/kilo
for as long as the battery lasts.
alternately lets say you weigh 185 (bike, gear, yourself) and you can do 285 watts that is 3.4 watts/kilo
for as long as you can.
the difference isn't so great, but it is substantial, 1 watt/3.4 watts = 29% power advantage to ebike
and what happens when the battery dies or you bonk?
250lb:160watts with no battery = 1.4 watts/kilo
185lb: 200watts and really hungry = 2.4 watts/kilo
1 watt/1.4 watts = 71% power advantage to pedal power
I do way more trail riding than DH laps. There is no way I am risking having to pedal a hulking dead ebike up the last 1,000 foot climb, because that would take eternity.
I am not concerned with what bike someone chooses
In the situation where the runs are much shorter and you are up and down every 15mins in the uk at least, those are called bike parks and you get a lift to the top, that is just as fast and takes even less energy than an e bike.
I'm struggling to find a particular instance in the uk where the trails are just so that you actually get more runs out of an e bike and there is no lift access.
Lol, if that was the case you would be a pro cyclist and not a pinkbike e bike troll.
I wasn't aware that e bikes were slower in the UK than they are in the states. Regardless, e bikes are still much faster overall because of the time they make up on the climbs. It's at least 2 to 1 and equals much more distance and fun overall. But fun is subjective, maybe you enjoy climbing at a snails pace.
It's obvious that e bikes are creating alot of anxiety with people who spent alot of money on slow bikes, just like 29" wheels when they emerged and made the 26 for life crowd anxious. Now the 26 for life crowd is on wagon wheeled carbon bikes and feeling anxiety over e bikes. Did you know there is an e bike filter to prevent you from expressing that anxiety publicly?
I do appreciate objective facts in a discussion, and when I'm reading comments above saying that an eBike is generally slower, that normal rider can kick out 350w and repeatedly sprint up to 2000w+, for several hours on end, well that just doesn't sound accurate. So I agree with you; I said an average rider kicks out around 250w/h, perhaps it is indeed lower and nearer 160w (which further supports my initial point with respect to what an extra 350w can do)
And as to what happens when you run out of juice on a regular eBike? Well, you're dead right there, you end up with something heavy and cumbersome, a numb anvil on wheels. You may end up walking. But I mean.... what do you expect if the battery dies? I completely agree; I'd hate to do a long multi hour effort, only to find myself many miles and many feet of elevation away from 'home' and with a 50lb dead weight. But that's a very specific example of draining the battery towards the end of a long ride that you'd surely, as the owner, have thought "well, I'm pushing the range a bit here with this specific ride, might end up walking out....." and then did it anyway. So thats a question planning; I hate bonking towards the end of a ride too, so I take steps to mitigate that. And one of those steps might be to not do a long ride without making sure I have adequate food and water (fuel) to complete the mileage required. To be fair, electronics on MTB's in general are subject to the same sort of battery argument; I've read the same said of AXS, Di2 and so on, but people seem to buy and use that OK I guess?
And to just play devil's advocate - in contrast, what about all the rides that don't have that outcome, the vast majority that finish well, and with charge left in the battery? What about the extra laps in a given time, or the extra trails ridden, or climbs cleared, that might have not otherwise been? Like I said before - I don't own an eBike, but I do have a few other MTB's (hardtails/sus trail, DH etc). The regular bikes I use in different places for different things. The DH bike is great for trips away in CO, the Endorphin is fun at Bentonville's mixed trails for example and a single speed hard tail is excellent in the woods down the road from my house... Horses for courses at the end of the day, and an eBike is, to me at least, just another choice from the plethora of styles and types of bike available on the market.
He's either fat/old or both so yea I bet to him E bikes are night and day. As for his retarded comment about being jealous cos we spent money on normal bikes, when I built up my Yeti sb165 I could have bought a Heckler or two Haibike e bikes for the same money...and guess what, I didn't, because I don't blood want one...my legs are powerful enough, I want better suspension, a lighter more agile frame and not a big ugly f*ck off downtube. Snobs like him think we are jealous when he goes past on his e bike, I see them as bikes for the disabled... It's like having a hearing aid and going, you're jealous because I have electric ears and can hear more than you...like wtf not everyone wants an e bike man which is why there is f all adverts on the front page of Pinkbike for them...almost all the bikes on the front page of Pinkbike that people drool over are non e bikes.
Then again I will put forward the rowing boat argument... If a guy fits a tiny 100cc engine to his rowing boat, but still has to row, yet has a restricted top speed that is below a rowers capable sprint speed... Then he goes and laughs at the normal rower and say his boat is shit, meanwhile a full on speed boat goes past. Can you not see how absolutely stupid that whole concept seems....and yet tell me why your bicycle is exempt from the same ridiculousness but the rowing boat isn't? I have not had one person come back with an argument to that one because it's true, it is ridiculous and there is no exemption.
No, I'm not an e-guy
The riding spots I regularly visit, examples include fod, Aston hill, rogate, tidworth and windhill bikepark, stoughton, okeford bikepark, 417 flyup would take between 5 to 20 mins to push up for 30 secs to 2 mins of down.
Push up in 8mins or ride up in 2mins, yeah I'm definitely not getting 3 times more DH runs in...
Even bmcc with the uplift, it holds me up going up the hill if I catch it up. Usually though they are still loading up and strapping down though whilst I have got to the top for another run.
Oh and by the way, 2 batteries ..
youtu.be/rfSJ0mtBjF8
Eat it...
2.Some people can output 2000w, a lot of people can output around 1000w in a sprint...
3. I don't see what is so amazing about hitting 30mph on road? Road bikes can hit well beyond 40 with an average rider during a sprint, recumbent bikes well beyond that...
4.Your logic with the trailer argument is hypocritical...both methods involve using a motor to get you to the top of the hill...that is after all the whole point you buy an e bike isn't...to get to the top fast so you can get down? Shame you don't need an e bike for that and an uplift is quicker ehh? And shame that during longer trails that don't require uplift, the downs are much longer than the ups meaning you would have to do so many laps to get 1 extra whole run in that your battery would be flat.
5. The Youtube video I posted straight up tell it how it is, an unbiased video by an e bike channel and the uplift won. Fact is anywhere with decent trails and downhill parks doesn't need an e bike... If you are going to random trails built by Bob in the middle of nowhere that has 3 hills that you just go round and round in circles that's another matter, ofc e bike will probably get you more laps in then, but who wants to ride trails like that if they have access to proper ones.
Here is a video of one of my local trails, not my video, but shows clearly the ebike advantage. This is aston hill that rob warner, you may have heard of him, had input in designing one of the tracks there.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwF7iAd7IGI
For me though and pretty much everyone in the south these are the usual type of trails, the terrain allows for 1 minute runs and there are certainly no uplifts, so ebike usage is prevalent in this part of the country.
"Video: make climbing easier with proper body position."
And for those who saw that and said "nah, that's not for me"
"Spotted: Pole eMTB prototype gets hucked to flat."
Considering on average only about 50-60% material of these batteries can be recycled, do they (or rest of E-MTB industry) have a plan for this? Honestly curious.
Disintegrating front triangles, 3 months waiting list that overnight becomes a 9 month, customer support that doesn't exist and persistence of Mr. Engineer that everything is just freaking dandy and that he knows best are pretty much the main reason for all the hate.
I am the model customer for the Pole. I'm old enough to prefer long and stable bikes, I have money, I can wait for the bike, love hi tech alu bikes... and 4 weeks ago when I placed the order for a new bike, it took me less than 3 minutes to discard the new Pole
What a great guy
"What's lazy about doing twice as many laps? Work smarter, not harder"
its because your not putting in anywhere near as much effort. sure you can go further if you like but where i live if i had a pound for every time i see an e-bike rider rock up in a van get out there e-bike and run a single loop of an 11 mile long track and take strava shortcut lines in most places they can (ive seen many do this) to then pack up an go home whilst i ride multiple laps i would have a lot of money. it may not be true of every e-bike rider but from what i see most e-bike riders round my local trails are as lazy as they get yet most have pretty expensive e-bikes and all the gear.
Bring back the Mountain Cycles San Andreas - as an E-Bike
WTF Leo, way to jinx it. ;-)
'Feels solid.'
'"let me know when and where it needs to be hucked."'
Got nothing to add.