Shimano Announces 3 New Flat Pedals

 Shimano are bicycles.

 @m1dg3t: and so can you.

 @kroozctrl: you get an F in humility

 @kroozctrl: NERD!!!

 @kroozctrl:

 And then you won first prize in a truth telling competition two towns over.

 @kroozctrl: ... and then everybody clapped.

 @panaphonic: Well played laddie.

 @panaphonic: That has a very "Mark Twain" vibe. Nice.

 @kroozctrl: I feel like this is a line from Doogie Hoozer MD. Am I close?

 @kroozctrl: You should apply for a job at Shimano.

 @kroozctrl: bots are typically smarter than lots of people…

 @number44: Yay! Everyone gets a prize. I love the 2000's

 @kroozctrl: r/iamverysmart

 @kroozctrl: how can a bright and excelent student.... be a DICK?

 @kroozctrl: r/thathappened

 @panaphonic: he has a girlfriend but she is modeling in Europe right now.

 Spank Oozy Reboot: 372g. OneUp aluminum 365g; height 8.3-12mm. $109 and $129. Oneups are very easy to service

 @ceecee: love my OneUp alloy flats.

 @ceecee: I m using the one up composite. For the price it might be my best buy in recent times

 @ceecee: xpedo spry: 260g and you can get them really cheap. Still doing the business for the last two years

 Canfield crampon mountain pedals 398g and 6mm thick at the leading edge. Probably the best clearance. Rebuilt my 4 yr old ones in 15 minutes

 @Pyres: yep, I’m on oneup composites as well. 355g, very affordable and grippy AF

 I've always been a fan of the Wellgo MG-1 magnesium flats -- well under 400 grams and $55 - sealed bearings and replaceable pins. Great inexpensive pedals.

 @Armand74: ment to upvote but fat figered. Usually run clipless, but run Sprys now and then.

 crankbrothers stamp 3 386g

 @Pyres: HT composite flat is a bargain too. PA something or other.
I dont like the shape of One Ups composite compared to alloy.
Alloy is perfect but the composite sticks up over the axle

 @Pyres: my one up composites have needed zero maintenance over 3 years, and frankly I've given up worrying about smashing them into stuff as they just DGAF

 If you guys aren’t onto scudgood pedals, you’re missing out.

 Race face atlas: 365g. Bearing s still going strong and smooth since I installed them 2 years ago.

 @in2falling: @ $130 USD starting to creep up there though

 I swapped the pins in my raceface atlas pedals for studs as I think they sit in the pockets of vans soles better and they only weigh 337g.

 @Pyres: absolutely agree, one up as excellent quality, really grippy, good colors, and light. best bang for the money in my opinion.

 @ceecee: nice feature with Shimano pedals tho is you'll prob never have to services them

 @artistformlyknowasdan: flats suffer more from rock strikes and leverage--I'd be more inclined to agree if we were talking cleated non-platform. I wonder if alloy 'vs.' nylon isn't also generational conflict. My issues are: thickness, platform size, grip, convexity, weight, toughness, regreaseability, and reuseability. After 750 or so combined hours, I sold three pair of unregreased Oozy Trails to a rider with smaller feet, so reuseability. No reason to do same with OneUps, unless to try Crampon Mag, which is thinner and lighter. Shimano is out based on thickness and double concavity. If nylon holds up just as well, thickness and maybe platform size are the cons, & price the pro. But if nylon is as tough, why not give it the same dimensions as alloy version?

@nbrewste: 31mm! MG22 with sharpened pins?....

 @ceecee: nylon doesn't have the tensile strength of aluminium, so needs to be thicker. But it's lower density and tougher, so it can be very light and damage resistant. I personally find the plastic surface grips my shoes better (especially in the wet) than my previous aluminium pedals

 @Breeconay: I used to love the Atlas. But after I saw three riders to lose their Atlas while riding I changed all my pedals.

 @pow4all: What do you mean by that?

 @Breeconay: I like the design and weight of the Atlas. But I‘m not happy with the internal design. Too risky to lose the pedal IMO.

 @pow4all: Im not trying to be pedantic, but I dont know what you mean by lose the pedal. Slip off? Or detach from the spindle.

 @Breeconay: presumably this: www.mtbr.com/threads/race-face-atlas-pedal-failure.1049221

 @mountainsofsussex: Oh, thats.... alarming. For what its worth mine have been awesome.

 Don't know. Don't know. So they can be removed even if you bend them smacking them into rocks

 @noapathy: @noapathy: You're right that it may not be possible to fit an allen key in the pin if it gets smacked by a rock, but it'll still be able to thread out, just maybe instead with a pair of pliers. If you bend a pin threaded from the bottom, it'll get hung up at the bend when you try to unthread it. If you manage to straighten out the pin, the threads are likely too messed up to unthread anyway. However, maybe you're thinking of partially threaded bottom-threaded pins? The ones where the exposed part of the pin past the threaded hole is unthreaded - those are the best option, I agree.

 @noapathy: if your top instal pin gets damaged, worse case scenario you take a pair of good pliers and away they go. If you bottom instal pin gets bent or damaged, most likely you will have to cut it which is way more of a pain in the ass. But bottom instal pins are thinner and usually offer more grip which is why I tend to prefer them over m4 set screws "pins" or worse yet, MX pins which we start to see more and are even thicker diam and less grip.

 @noapathy: I'm just guessing, but taking into account that faced up and faced down pins are symmetrical, I would risk to say that you can access both by removing the opposing pin.

 @CheddarJack46: the pin always snaps leaving the part in the tread impossible to get out at least when bolted from underneath you can definitely get the broken pin out even if it means cutting with a hack saw.

 @thenotoriousmic: I still can't fathom this argument afters years and years of similar PB comments.

If a pin gets smashed by rocks (on top) then surely pulling it out upwards, by either unthreading the still working thread or unscrewing with pliers, is FAR easier than unthreading or pulling the smashed up pin back through the threaded hole from below!!???

I feel like this is an issue that @pinkbike needs to address with some kind of destructive testing.... @mikekazimer?

 @OrangeGoblin: how do you want to get it out if it is snaped?

 @Balgaroth: @CheddarJack46: @OrangeGoblin: So the pin breaks off flat, leaving only the often seized threaded bit in the pedal like @thenotoriousmic mentioned. It's pretty common, which is why my XT flats are in a box and I've been happily using Deity Deftraps for more than a year now.

 EXACTLY. look cool. will they hold up? time will tell.

 @OrangeGoblin: pilers won’t do anything in your pin is in two pieces and even if there was still something to grab hold of your very unlikely to be able to remove a pin with pilers anyway.

 @noapathy: Fair enough. I've never had this happen tbh - they either bend or get ripped out completely.

 I know we should be talking flats but I have a pair of XT SPDs that I've had for 10-12 years and could have 70-80,000 km on them. Lost count of how many bikes they've been on. Just brilliant. Had 4 pedal smacks on Saturday. Dozers!

 I run these. They're not light. They're not super thin. Everything else about them is ideal. That being said, if I needed a new set of pedals today, I don't think I could justify anything other than oneup composites, even on my dentist-grade trail bike.

 And they take chromag pins. Indestructible. At least 7 years on them.
Also worth mentioning q factor is just perfect (at least) for my stance, never have to check where my feet are compared to many other brands.

 @iamamodel: yeah man i dont know if ill ever run anything but shimano pedals because the set i have will probably outlive me lol

 They look to me like the type of pedals where you can feel the axle bulge under your foot, quite a lot of composite pedals have this and it takes away from the concave feel, also the platform is smaller.

 @bigburd: Agreed. I'm on deftraps because theyre true concave bodies. And rear entry pins. And composite bodies.

 Like the one up and raceface Chester. Awful feeling pedals @bigburd:

 The shape doesn't look good at all. There are myriads of bad pedals with bulging axle housings ruining the shape, no need to add another one.

 @wyorider: Same here. I sold the last set that had that center bulge near the outside of the pedal after only one ride. Deity got it right.

 Top entry is better. All you need is a pair of vise grips. Rear entry you need a cutoff wheel

 @nfontanella: That's what she said...

 Are they attached to Sam Hill's bike?

 @LuvAZ: no u

 Convex feels better after a couple hours pedaling. I too like the convex OneUp pedals. Flat (non concave) are also pretty good.

 @ajaxwalker, I prefer concave pedals - the way they allow my foot to sink into them creates a more secure feeling. It's definitely personal preference, though, and in many cases altering the pin heights is an easy way to change the feel of a pedal.

 I just duct tape my feet to the crank arms

 Definitely personal preference but if you want a locked in feel then convex wins, hands down. One of the most sketchy pedals I've used was the composite Oneup because there was no pin on the outer back of the pedal. My foot just wanted to fall off.

 @heatproofgenie: I think you have your convex and concave mixed up there.

 Found out about these rad new nylon mtb pedals with toe clips and straps.

 @justanotherusername: Yep, seems like. When in doubt, think of "cavity" like hollow space, something you can go into.

I think concave pedals are the way to go if you have stiff soled shoes like FiveTen Impact shoes and have the ball of your foot over the axle. If you've got more supple soled shoes and ride with the feet more forwards, flat or convex pedals will work well as you'll always have enough pressure over the leading and trailing pins (hence sufficient grip) when you push down but can easily shift your foot if you reduce pressure.

 @justanotherusername: Lol, yes. That's what I get for doing too many things at once.

Concave for the win.

 @vinay: or just skip a layer of complexity and think of cave. It's right there in the name.

 Pick a wave function and be a dick about it!

 I use oneup composites with 510s. I bought it with some worries about the convex but I can’t feel it and you forget about them while riding. I have used DMR for many years and it also works great, but I have found that with concave platforms my feet, ankles and my lower leg get “tired” or sore ( not sure if it’s the right word) in less time.

 @vinay: That's what I was about to suggest. Convex/concave preference may depend on rather you ride with more the middle of the foot, or the front of the foot.
I ride more with the middle and prefere convex (I use the OneUp composite, they're great but there's almost too much grip, with the threaded pins it's difficult to reposition the foot without moving it up entirely).

 i only ride tmacs because of how much i love how concave they are

 @dylansanderson2004: for sure, Tmacs and brendogs have the best concavity. Sam hills arent bad either

 I prefer convex

 @SterlingArcher: I don't thinking that word means what you think it means. Curvature maybe?

 @sspiff: nah I’m right. There’s this thing called google where you look stuff up, dunno if you’ve heard about it.

 @SterlingArcher: your confidence is commendable at least.

 I went from the OneUp pedals to Stamp 7s, like them both (ignoring the fact that the OneUps snapped in half). The OneUps were more comfortable underfoot, the Stamps feel more secure. The actual grip is pretty comparable but the "in the pedal" feel of concave is nice when you're descending. Additionally, if you happen to be using shoes with a rounded bottom the convex pedals feel awful, so that's a plus for concave as well

 @src248: Curious, were the oneups alu or plastic? I've snapped 2 plastic ones... one of the pedals was on the 3rd ride. Thankfully I already had a single-pedal backup.

 @sspiff: Aluminum. They made it through the warranty period and then failed catastrophically

 @sspiff: it’s not confidence. It’s just a fact of reality.

 Yep, and Deftraps are the winner for me. Big, wide platform and a little concave. HAAAAATE convex pedals.

 @SterlingArcher: I think the HT AE05 is by far the best for concavity

 My feet always got numb after some time with concave nukeproofe horizon pedals. After learning about the mid-foot position from pedalling innovations the problem has gone. I have now ordered the one up pedals for my new bike, as a convex shape does fit better to the arch of the foot than a concave.

 @stormracing: I like how thin the Ht pedals are too. I’ll give them a try.

 Had OneUp composites flats, Funn Mambas, and then gave TMACs a try. I definitely prefer the concave profile and grip of the TMACs more. Aside from feeling more planted and secure, I can feel where my foot is positioned on the pedal. You do feel the pressure from the raised edges, but it's more like "Hey I'm here", than "wow, my foot is going to fall asleep in 10 mins". I also like the bigger pin dia on the TMACs. FWIW I haven't slipped a TMAC pedal but I used to slip the flat OneUps regularly. I ride w/ FiveTen Freeriders.

 Pedaling Innovations Catalyst might be worth a shot.

 @DirtCrab: I own a set of those. They make a great platform to use while riding park dh. Gives dam near your whole foot something to stand while bombing down. I did not like them too much for trail riding, but ironically love them for dh.

 @DirtCrab: Catalyst is only 95mm wide, way too narrow for people with bigger feet... I see they make an XL 105mm version now but even that's narrower than I'd like (wearing size 14 freeriders)

 Kona Wah Wah 2 is 120x118, not quite 140x140 but still pretty large, biggest platform that I'm aware of (not that I'm an expert in pedal dimensions)

 @src248: i had a set of those, and they are pretty dam wide, which i loved. However, they only lasted two rides before they stopped free spinning.

 Try chromag draggas. If that’s not big enough

 @DirtCrab: no. They're way way way way too narrow, my feet already overhang vaults by 45mm (105 wide platform) they're a 95mm platform.

 @src248: wah wahs have that annoying crank side bulge which reduces available space, meaning they don't feel as big as vaults.

 @freeridejerk888: daggas and tmacs are the two pedals at the top of my list, apparently neither really feel any bigger than vaults which is worrying.

 Bummer the platform gets smaller the cheaper the pedal becomes. Would be nice if they'd also make the composite platform as big as the Saint pedal.

 There are loads of mtb flats that are dual concave…. It’s called marketing, keep up at the back.

 DMR have been making popular dual concave mtb pedals for years now.

 At 1st I thought they had invented some new concave design, then I realised it's what most good flats have had for ages. Much like my Vaults, amazing pedals for anyone who likes flats.

 @bigburd: Yeah Vaults are nice! There aren't many dual con options tho, and they've been strangely un-marketed until recently, that's all. It'll be good for ppl wanting to bunny hop

 @filmdrew: bullshit, there are loads already available, you just missed the last 10 years of mtb flats that’s all

 @filmdrew: Vaults feel great. My left pedal makes crazy noise and the support of DMR is limited. I've been waiting for a tool to rebuild them for 3 weeks now.

 @Muchogusto: @Muchogusto: Any 1/2" bolt screws into the bush and you can just pull them out with that. Should be easy enough to get hold of in the USA.

 @Konda: thanks bud, Cheers!

 Crankbrothers Stamps do this too, the upper-end models don't have any clearance between pedal and crank. Ankle rubbing the crank is annoying, ankle hitting chainstay can really hurt.

 @emptybe-er: and burgtec, unless you get the boost ones or buy the aftermarket axle. But yeah your totally right

 @dagzin: Oh that’s pretty cool that burgtec even considers this. A few options for spindle length would be nice. A company like cascade components could really corner the cankle market.

 Pretty sure that + is a Phillips head screw.

 @MaplePanda: Point of order: This being Shimano, it would be a JIS screw, not a Phillips.

 @barp: Correct, well spotted

 @MaplePanda: yep, but it's holding an indexable ring in a particular location. Looks like the index ring on a Fox thru axel system to set the tension of the axel. Would put money on it that it can be used to hold a certain tension on the axel/bearing/ bushings.

 They do look a bit like some obscure Taiwan catalogue pedal from 15 years ago, and I don't mean that in a nasty way. Would still buy the XTs if they ride well and have typical Shimano reliability.

 True - SLX for the groms, XT for students and granddad gets Saints.

 small platform and thicc

 @emptybe-er: I have size 11 feet and they are the right size for me and they look thicker in photos than they actually are. They are the thickness of the axle so that they are actually flat.

 They would match my cranks. Don't think I have a choice.

 I see more composite pedals then metal at this point in an area that's generally packed with bikes over 6k. I used Aluminum and Magnesium pedals before that and they lasted about a year and a half. My one-up composites will probably make it 2 years. I'd also say pedal strikes feel much better on composites. We seem to have noticed however that composites seem to be bad out of the box a bit more and most that fail fail in the first or 2nd ride or last forever.

 Solid aluminum, versus aluminum and carbon, or composite (aka plastic).

 I negative for me if it's true, I love the ease of servicing their pedals and much cheaper in the long run than £20 on a service kit every year or so

 @DC1988: service every year for flats?! Ok I don't ride as much as a lot of people I'm sure, but my superstars have probably been going 10 years and I've not touched them once. They run completely fine.

 @el-nombre: I'm not an regular user of flats but I know a lot of people (not every one) that has to frequently service flats. Weather will obviously make a big difference.

 @DC1988: You should check if your pedals have 10mm axle (my superstar and nukeproofs do, but so do many other brands) because they usually run standard 1010 bushing that you should be able to find online or in shops that sell bearings for a dollar or even less...

 I will happily pay twice the price to not give money to Space Cock Womble.

 @wallheater: ? explain

 @hamncheez: Jeff Bezos / Amazon.

 @wallheater: you can buy these from Ali or eBay.

 @hamncheez: because its a literal ego trip and people don't like ego trips even if he paid for it with his own fortune. People are free to literally burn their money if they want to but society is 100% right to call it out as an narcissistic waste.

 @hamncheez:
1) if you would also use up all the resources required to send a human up to sub orbital space for no reason other than to say you did, then your dream of going to space is also an ego trip.
2) because the billions of dollars and tonnes of carbon could have been directed at almost any other en-devour and created more value added for society. E.g. If you are were an astronaut going to space to further science and the like its not a waste of resources. If you are just some billionaire who wants to join the 65miles high club, then its a waste of resources. Seems obvious enough to me.

 My intense hatred for Spaceturtle is not because he gleefully set out to destroy tens of thousands of smalltown bookstores, but because he is an exploitative UNION BUSTER.

 @freestyIAM: Let me get this straight, and I am not attacking you...Just adding to some of your statement. ...So its a narcissistic waste to invest one's own money to make a dream come true? Is it a narcissistic waste to provide tons of jobs to people helping make that space thing happen, least not to the companies making the tons of parts and stuff. His money goes around to a lot of people in the cog in the form of contracts, payroll, and benefits, like health insurance , just for his space endeavors alone. Who cares if its bikes, cars, going to space, or hookers and cocaine. Who gives a shit. Its their money. But sometimes its easy to forget that just because some people are loaded, it does not mean their money and projects are not helping other people, especially with jobs. That rich a*shole that buys the $450000.00 Ferrari, thats a lot of Ferrari workers earning a living for their families by putting that car together.

 @jason475: I don't know about his narcissistic tendencies, but he 'thanked' his employees for making his flight possible while treating them like sh1t.

 @suspended-flesh: ok, can you please elaborate?

 @jason475: Elaborate on what, old chap?

 @suspended-flesh: just curious how he treated his employees like crap. Are you talking about the ones that worked on the space program, or his Amazon warehouse employees? Honestly want some insight is all.

 @suspended-flesh: ok, i didnt see your thing about the union busting. As an IAFF union member, I can see what you are getting at. Cheers mate!

 @jason475: :cheers: I'm no expert but Google 'Amazon labor trouble / employee mistreatment / decades of union busting' stuff. They could have done so much better and must change. They may be modern and automated but they rely heavily on human capital. They also own Whole Foods, of course....

 its hard to hear, but from a data perspective, Unions don't actually help workers increase their wages overall. There are some times and some places where they did, but overall its not a positive measurement, from an economic perspective. I have no issues at all with union busting.

 @hamncheez: Sure, I hear people expound on macroeconomic theory 'from a data perspective' on MTB sites, but it's not hard to hear at all. Unions help me and my family - fight me.

 @suspended-flesh: Joining a union is fine. It could be perfect for an individual given their circumstances. But union busting is also fine.

 @hamncheez: Thanks for your blessing, Troll God. American workers are overworked and underpaid.

 @freestyIAM: "but society is 100% right to call it out as an narcissistic waste" - Wrong..... Society 100% HAS the right to call it out as an narcissistic waste.... An enormous difference, and one that seems to be forgotten by "society" these days.

 @suspended-flesh: Hours worked has steadily declined in the last 100 years, as has union membership. We work far fewer hours than our grandparents did.

When membership peaked around 1910, it was 24% of the US workforce.

Wages have also risen steadily in the last 100 years. If you look at the average industrial wage, and then use that to compute the number of work hours needed to buy various things, literally everything is cheaper. The only thing that is slightly higher are cars, but I think we can all agree that a car from 1980 isn't as safe, efficient, etc as a more modern car. Even housing has gotten cheaper, if you compare hours worked to purchase a square foot of housing, controlling for the massive move to cities from the countryside. And thats not even mentioning the dramatic improvement in the quality, insulation, etc of modern construction.

 @hamncheez: Thanks for the copy-n-paste. You're way off-course and the tape has jammed your derailleur.

Preventing Labor from organizing to fight for safer conditions is evil. Capitalism is fine, but human capital is an expendable resource to the Bezoseses of the world.

Have a nice weekend (brought to you by organized Labor).

 @suspended-flesh:

1. What did I copy/paste? I got my degree in economics- this is what I've studied for years and what I think about all day.

2. I agree, it is evil to prevent labor from organizing from a legislative position, but not if its from your own company.

3. There is no economic evidence that Unions reduced workplace accidents or improved conditions. Many places like Hong Kong saw a dramatic rise in workplace conditions in the complete absence of organized labor. I could go down the rabbit hole of the Hedonic Wage model, risk aversion, etc, as I've done before, but this comment is already too long.

 @hamncheez: Please don't represent yourself as an economist unless you have a PhD. Saying you are an economist while only having a BA in economics is like someone saying they are a lawyer or doctor because they did pre law or pre med in undergrad. I have a masters degree in economics but don't have the gall to represent myself as an economist. I'm passionate about the subject but am no expert and any thing i say needs to be cited as do your statements, like point 3.

 @freestyIAM: Where did I represent myself as an economist? I was just demonstrating that I didn't copy/paste anything

 @hamncheez: it's good evidence that trickle down economics would never ever ever happen. So there's that.

 @fruitsd79: Trickle-down economics is a straw man. This is completely unrelated, but when you cut taxes, its a grass root, bottom-up growth. Same with reducing price and wage controls- freeing up individuals to make their own choices is the most bottom-up, grassroots way to improve an economy.

I'll tell you what true trickle-down economics is- when the government takes 40% of your income, then chooses which industries/companies/people get subsidies and regulations that keep out competition. There is a reason why Amazon, Google, Facebook, Wells Fargo, etc all had record profits during the lockdowns of 2020. When government takes money from everyone, and gives it to the politically connected, you can bet that you and I are not the politically connected.

For example. the 2020 Stimulus was a $850 billion dollar direct payments scheme that cost $3 trillion. Where did the rest of that money go to? To large businesses in contracts, payments, etc. To the top.

The same is with minimum wages; who benefits the most? Amazon, Walmart, etc. The price control of wages allows them to more easily compete against startups, industry disruptors, and small businesses. The artificially high wages also helps tech companies a ton, who are looking to automate every last job on earth.

 @hamncheez: citations or STFU

 @freestyIAM:
www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AMZN/amazon/gross-profit

www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/covid-stimulus-price-tag-17-000-per-person-69-000-per-family

Is it too hard to google? What citation is needed for "its a bad idea to take peoples money away from them and give it to politically connected corporations"?

 @hamncheez: I'm sorry. I meant citations from reputable econ journals, but the first thing you come across on Google that supports your argument. Like this

direct.mit.edu/rest/article/92/4/945/57855/Minimum-Wage-Effects-Across-State-Borders

 @freestyIAM: Ah, you mean back on the minimum wages subject. So the benchmark for minimum wage studies for the last decade has been the Neumark metastudy

www.nber.org/papers/w12663

From the abstract:

"the oft-stated assertion that recent research fails to support the traditional view that the minimum wage reduces the employment of low-wage workers is clearly incorrect"

"among the papers we view as providing the most credible evidence, almost all point to negative employment effects, both for the United States as well as for many other countries. "

"he studies that focus on the least-skilled groups provide relatively overwhelming evidence of stronger disemployment effects"

 @freestyIAM: Most minimum wage studies just plain suck, so they don't find much affect (like the study you cited). The now infamous New Jersey study literally just called a bunch of fast food restaurants (talk about reporting bias) and surveyed the managers on whether or not they would have to have layoffs if the minimum wage went up.

Nearly all studies that I've come across have very small sample sizes, or are biased against those who would not report unemployment- teenagers who have the luxury of entering/exiting the workforce, illegal aliens who are wary of any large employment-tracking agency, and the gig economy people who are 1099 and don't report hourly wages. Its notoriously hard to measure this population, and they are the ones most affected by price and wage controls.

The most valid rebuttal against Neumark is from Arindrajit Dube, who attacks their methodology by getting into the weeds in econometrics, which is above my head (my undergrad econometrics class was a graduate level, and the hardest in the country with it being based in calculus and linear algebra, but its been a few years). I'm still puzzled tho- how do you attack the statistical methods of a meta study? Wouldn't you be attacking the individual methods of the studies evaluated, assuming they all use the same methodologies?

 @hamncheez: uhh, my link is to Dube's paper. I'll make you a deal. I'll read your paper and you read mine and then let's talk.

 @freestyIAM: Didn't realize you were linking one of the Dube papers. Reading tonight, but I think I read this one shortly after it was published a decade ago. He's authored several more in the mean time, all along the same theme of "[previous studies] have heterogeneous spatial trends [that] can bias the
estimated minimum wage effects in traditional approaches", as I mentioned before.

 It’s like you have a stroke sometimes

 @emptybe-er: Team Yoshimura

 how are the resin ones that heavy? way above RF Chesters, OneUp, HTs.

 @ReformedRoadie: Even RF Atlas are only 350gr and AL and serviceable.

I like the idea of resin, though. Smash them into rocks, who cares (if they"re tough enough).