Santa Cruz Teases New XC Race Bike

 Aaaaaand, they’re gone...

 Full review tomorrow

 @wheelsmith: Add 10 percent to the cost

 Poof!

 The VP free?

I used to froth over that thing.

 The new Super 8 looks less capable than the old one

 If the new model doesn't replace the Blur, then "Tazmon" is about all that's left.

 the 'free of VVP'

 @R-M-R: Surely its a new Superlight?

 Nah it’s the new superlight, single pivot, black xc ripper

 @benpinnick: Right, yes, the Superlight - forgot about that one! I still vote for Tazmon, but I'm sure it will be the Superlight.

 Sc silver dollar. They had nickel right?

 @usedbikestuff: and Butcher

 @kyleluvsdh: I think I dislike the word “cringe” as much as I dislike “downcountry”

 @TobiasHandcock: Still have mine...do it all bike. Its a relic of long gone era of "no f-dup standards"

 @Hayek:
Valid, I’m with you there xD

 @kyleluvsdh: downcounty

 @MartinKS: lol xD. I was just messing around, but it seems some people got pretty butt hurt nonetheless

 not a blur.?

 Wait what?..... doesn't this comment belong on a YT thread? I thought if you bought a bike from a bike shop they wiped your ass for you.

 @CamTakacs: Wish it was, I would have paid a lot less for the same level of service..

 @CamTakacs: the shop might still wipe your ass, but they're depending on suppliers for the toilet paper.

 They don’t care about you. If you needed a motor for your Bullit they would be bending over backwards to help you.

 Buy something else and sell the SC when it comes in.

 rob@santacruzbicycles.com
joe@santacruzbicycles.com

 To be fair, the companies that have bikes in stock have a better chance of honoring warranty claims. SC has said that anything that comes in now will probably not get fulfilled until 2022. If you do not have stock, how can you warranty a frame? Especially if it is an older model?

 @jmhills: any company offering lifetime warranties on their products should be holding warranty stock, other companies have managed to honour their warranties, at this price point it’s inexcusable, especially when I’m seeing the exact frame I’m expecting as a replacement out on the trails already, but of course santacruz are prioritising any frames produced now to selling complete bikes over honouring warranties, despite the fact they shouldn’t have let their warranty stock run down in the first place

 @Wincobankchef:

Are you getting a crash replacement? I've had nothing but excellent customer service when contacting SC.

 @Mkrol: no not a crash replacement, warranty claim

 @Wincobankchef: You do realize there is global pandemic going on, which has very publicly lead to a MASSIVE shortage in bikes and parts which is also causing insane delays. With all the new people joining the sport, and people riding more and harder than ever, more frames are breaking than they usually would anticipate. Sadly this bike boom happened too quickly for pretty much every bike brand to even have a chance at preparing for. Under normal situations, they would have enough warranty frames and much lower volume to be able to respond quickly and cover everyones frames. This is not exclusive to Santa Cruz AT ALL. Every bike brand is in the exact same boat. Does it suck for you, and others waiting on warranty frames and new bikes? Absolutely, but it is way out of their control. Heck, look at that new Session that launched this week. ETAs at bike shops is early 2023...

While it may suck to see any brand flaunting new models, you can't forget that pro riders will still be allocated frames, and will still be testing new products. The R&D department is separate from the production and assembly lines. This XC bike has been in the works for 2-3 years by this point, and the project was started before this pandemic was.

 I've been waiting for replacement carbon seat stays from Rocky Mountain for over 6 months, you're not the only one stuck waiting. Supply chains are really messed up right now, fortunately I have another bike to ride.

 I was stoked when SC said they’d replace my alu V4 with a V5 after I cracked my back end.
That was beginning of January.

 @Wincobankchef:

Bummer man. Hopefully you get your replacement soon.

 @leon-forfar: Well said

 @wibblywobbly: That's the thing. Every bike brand failed to prepare. No one saw this pandemic coming, and it was too late by the time these issues arose. That's all I'm saying. It would suck to be out of a bike for months no doubt, but blaming the bike brands (or anyone really) isn't fair given that these are unprecedented times that no one could prepare for. I work at a Santa Cruz dealer, but we also carry Specialized, Rocky Mountain, Devinci, Orbea, and Transition. They are ALL in the same boat. It's also worth noting that a good chunk of the Santa Cruz employees were forced out of their homes (some lost them) due to those forest fires last year which definitely didn't help an already bad situation.

 We are handing out cards/letting customers know that if they buy a new bike from us there's a chance we can't get parts if something breaks (drivetrain, wheels, suspension, etc) or if they need a warranty claim they might not get anything this year. It's rough being a bike shop this year lol. We haven't received any of our orders yet and have dozens of customers wanting bikes every day. Literally have like 8 bikes in the showroom.

 @leon-forfar: It's a matter of optics. Royalty eating cake while the peasants starve and whatnot... and I'm an SC fanboy...

 @leon-forfar: there’s a difference between not having bikes to sell, and not having frames for warranty purposes. There’s no excuse for the latter, pandemic or not.

 @stevemokan: have you ever ran a global bike brand or any global company that produces consumer products? Get bs k to SC and ALL others once you have all the answers and sure they will be appreciative. Not having a bike sucks, no doubt. However, it's isn't as black and white as it seems.

 @leon-forfar: everyone thought the economy was imploding so they cut back. Then when it turned out there was a bike boom it was hard to make the super tanker do a 180. I get all that. I also appreciate people like Shimano who (rightly) think this bubble won’t last and won’t make massive investments that will be coming online right as everyone is moving to the new flavor of the moment.

But the fact there are no products for warranty means all these companies have prioritized making money in the moment from people swept up in then boom instead of taking care of existing customers.

 @leon-forfar: greed is the problem. They all produce in the far east to make more money, but still they increase their prices whenever they have an excuse, and they never go down (the prices). Want to be a premium bike brand, selling frames for a stupid amount of money? Produce them locally and stop whining about shipping costs and factories that aren't even yours.
- SC has its own factory, so they are definitely to blame for letting their existing customers down.

 @thefoxisdead:

The prices increases when the manufacturing process or shipping prices increases. That's not an excuse, that's just how you run a successful business. If they weren't selling bikes at their current market value, then we would see the price drop, supply and demand.

Bike companies aren't whining about additional costs, they are letting customers know why the price has increased.

I don't think majority of the cycling community has a problem with premium frames getting produced over seas. Cycling is a worldwide sport, if a frame is made locally in USA, they would still need to ship it overseas to buyers elsewhere. Frames made in Asia I'm sure are directly shipped to distributors around the world.

Also, Can you explain the correlation between SC owning their own factory and them letting their customers down? I hope you consider all factors outside of SC's control when explaining.

I feel for everyone with warranty claims that have been left unfulfilled. But I think there's a lot of individuals here who don't know enough to form an educated opinion.

 @Wincobankchef: To be fair, a lot of the new scs you’re seeing out in the woods were probably ordered by a shop months ago. It’s not like they are still taking new orders.

 @thefoxisdead: SC's factory in California is for assembly. The frames are still all made over seas. And again, their factory in Santa Cruz almost burnt down, and a good chunk of their employees were forced out of their homes, and some lost their homes due to those fires. They were already running at 50% capacity due to COVID restrictions, and then that happened. There just isn't anything they could have done. By the time they realized they needed more frames to fulfill sales and warranty, it was already too late, and the massive spike in demand was already causing incredibly long lead times. The point I am making is that this is not just a Santa Cruz problem. Every bike brand is facing this problem. Even Specialized, being as large as they are, does not have warranty frames for certain models, and people are waiting up to 6 months for a replacement.

 @korev: No, just no. If Santa Cruz can't supply the shop or distributor with the warranty frame, being angry with the bike shop employees isn't going to do anything. The shop employees can't snap their fingers and make a new frame appear. At the end of the day, the shop more or less has no power over the situation, and threatening them is just going to put you on their bad side. They definitely won't go above and beyond to help you get sorted out in this case (or any future issues) if that is how you are going to treat them. You get what you give.

 @leon-forfar: I get it now... you have to wipe THEIR ass to get service....gotcha.

 @korev: this is pretty accurate dont know why you're downvoted

 @leon-forfar: what he means is that its Jungle UK distribution who should be sorting it out. For the bike shop to then replace the frame. Not directly SC from USA.

 @Wincobankchef: You are right! They should have seen the pandemic and the resultant shutdowns coming down the road and ramped up production of new products. Then, they should have also had the factories produce some extra, older frames to sit in stock, just in case this unforseen increase in ridership leads to an increase of warranty claims! What utter jack asses for not considering all of that?

I am not a fan of SC stuff but I bet they, in a normal year, would have been able to get you a replacement frame in a normal, reasonable amount of time had it been a normal, reasonable year or so. I am sorry that you have not gotten your replacement. That sucks. But be a bit reasonable. If stock runs low, you normally order more. Problem right now is...you cannot order more as factories in Asia are closed. Again, you spent a lot of money. We all do. Waiting for stuff when all you want to do is to ride really does suck. I am waiting on parts and have been for a bit now. I get it. I am also annoyed but I also understand that no one has anything right now because everyone had their factories shut down and, crucially more important, their supply chains frozen. You cannot just restart all of that overnight.

 @Molesdigmyjumps: Yes I realize that. The Distributor still has to work with SC directly. If SC can't supply frames to the distributor, then the shop is out of luck.

 @Molesdigmyjumps: Cheers, I thought I was just clarifying his rights under English and Welsh consumer law...

 I'd say it looks almost... EPIC?

 I don't know why but the first thing that came to mind was, "wow that looks just like an ebike"

 Hah, had the same thought. Glad to see wasnt the only one! @erg6k:

 Motor??? You can hide your lunch in that thing.

 Lunch?!? Y O U can hide in that thing

 you can hide 2 motors in yo momma

 My memory is blurry, what did the old one look like?

 They manufacture parts in China, where an entire ethnicity is being exterminated. Hypocrisy much?

 @hamncheez: taiwan isn't china. Unless they moved production into mainland china?

 @Huple: pretty sure only China themselves disagree

 @Huple: you created a profile today just to comment on this? I'm honored lol. Taiwan doesn't seem to want anything to do with china. I don't blame them honestly. Look what they are doing to hong kong.

 @makripper: I meant the raw carbon and other sub components

 @makripper: I created an account to see the new deleted waki comments, this was just a little bonus.

 @Huple: oh ok.

 @makripper: Santa Cruz is mainland China. They have spent the last two years trying to dodge tariffs so they can keep their margin high.

 According to cyclingtips, PEDs are bad, but free access to hormones at half of voting age is a virtue. Stop the planet please. I want off.

 @mm732: I love how vague it is. "where not all riders are welcome". "states makes basic human rights/care available to only certain humans."

Vague with the intent to be insidious. Not just outright lies, but gas lighting too. Not on board with a vague, non specific claim? You're against human rights.

 @hamncheez: there's evidence that it raises the suicide rate in teens but its not ok bc its transphobic

 @hamncheez: Yeah, could just as easily talk about “assuring women have access to fair competition against natural opponents.”

Neither confronts the reality of the situation. It’s just marketing BS by people with agendas.

What’s interesting is that the gaslighting is almost ALWAYS from people with no skin in the game. A trans or cis female athlete discussing the matter will usually confront the issue head on. Because it’s not a game to score internet points for them.

 @jspier - you are correct. I had a nice chat wit the SC folks at the booth today in Fayetteville, and thanked them for supporting the fight for equity in our state & supporting the LGBTQ community.

There’s no other way to say it- our state legislators are bullies and idiots, and I’m deeply saddened by the message they are sending with these laws. Fayetteville is a progressive college town, with a lot of passionate cyclists who have put a ton of work into bringing a world class event to town.

I got a nice up close look at the bike (and julianna counterpart) ... it’s very well executed and looks like a great option for XC racing and epic trail rides.

 @hamncheez: @hamncheez: yup. very well said. that's what the Cathedral does. next stop: chimeras and transhumanism. i'm serious. we are truly living in the last days.

 @vaedwards: thanks for the initial impression! anything else you can tell us about, suspension etc.?

 @vaedwards: Once again, super vague point, and anyone who is against this is somehow bigoted bullies. Then bullying and intimidating anyone against you. Astounding hypocrisy.

 @LAM: and the UN who recognise it as Chinese Taipai

 Full Story here - www.betamtb.com/news-issues/u-s-cup-racers-grapple-with-decision-to-line-up-in-arkansas

For those struggling with 'vagueness', please read past the headlines.

In my view, teens being refused the opportunity to participate in sport and anyone being refused non-emergency medical care are big problems - both should be basic rights for anyone. These rights are being denied because state law wishes to discriminate or allow discrimination against trans people.

If you personally don't see denial of human rights as a problem, that's a different issue.

And to Pinkbike - this seems like a pretty big story in the mountain bike world. One big enough that your employee felt a need to share it, and one that appears to be beneficial to your readers too - however they identify.

 @jspier: Teens are not being refused opportunity for sport. They are preventing cheating.

Teens are not being denied medical care. Amputation of someones healthy genitals, either physically or chemically, is not healthcare. Its child abuse. Trans-affirmation "treatments" do not decrease suicide, and have severe long term health problems, as any sane person knows. How it can be called bigoted to be against the sterilization of children is insanity.

 "SB 289, also known as the Medical Ethics and Diversity Act, is a bill that—if passed—would allow health care institutions and providers to refuse care based on religious, moral, or ethical objections, even when medically necessary, except in emergency situations."

Wow, at this rate they're going to be tossing certain sexual orientations off rooftops by 2022.

 @JohanG: Can you cite a single instance of healthcare being refused by a religious hospital? Most of the hospitals in this country were founded by religious institutions.

The only time this is invoked is for abortion, which regardless of your moral/legal position, is not healthcare.

 @wibblywobbly: I missed that memo. All up to speed now. Thanks man! Somehow I missed all the china cruz mentions. On their site they talk about how they use their own factories but I couldn't find where exactly they are. Alu used to be taiwan carbon used to be u.s

 @wibblywobbly: I missed that memo. All up to speed now. Thanks man! Somehow I missed all the china cruz mentions. On their site they talk about how they use their own factories but I couldn't find where exactly they are. Alu used to be taiwan carbon used to be u.s

 @makripper: Pinkbike needs some new developers. Double posts like this happen all the time, and their website hasn't updated in 10 years.

 @hamncheez: just great isn't it? I would hate to see the back end. Probably just a disaster

 @makripper: If the job postings are anything to go by, its pre 7.0 php. So no types, no imports, no security....

 @jspier: The only issue I have with trans people competing in sport is when they want to compete in women's events. As much as we all want them to feel included, they will have a competitive advantage whether they want to or not.

 @hamncheez: Their hospital, their rules.

 @JohanG: Can you cite an example?

 @jspier: Is it fair that women have to compete against people who are essentially men in terms of strength? If this race committee thinks so, they should put their money where their mouth is by eliminating the female heats and having everyone compete together.

 @hamncheez: if we assume no hospitals have/desire to deny treatment to individuals based on their gender, why would there be a bill allowing them to do so? Clearly someone, somewhere is pushing for it. If it isn’t a problem now, it may be because of the legality of it. We can’t assume that would remain the case if the bill passes.

 @Austink: Can you cite an example?

 "Can you cite an example?" is a misunderstood argument, that shows additional lack of understanding. This law has been proposed. It is not legal yet, so why should there be examples of people being refused medical service?

Of course, there are other examples of discrimination and refusal of service - even the supreme court has been involved in those cases, so those examples are everywhere.

The argument to pick a side on is whether or not discrimination is bad. If you believe that all people are created equal and should have freedom from persecution for beliefs and practices, then why would you want / need a bill that allows people to refuse service on their own discrimination? Isn't that against the point?

And beyond all that, the really big issue and the reason I made that first comment, is because Santa Cruz was going to launch this (presumably) awesome new bike and we didn't get to see it. The article doesn't say why, so I shared their reasoning - it was meant to be launched, but they held off on the launch because Santa Cruz don't support legalized discrimination either.

 @jspier: Which goes back to my main point- if that is true, Santa Cruz is a bunch of evil hypocrites. This Alabama law does not discriminate. It further codifies the illegality of child abuse. Secondly, their bikes are produced from/in China, where they literally have forced laborers (slaves) picking cotton, and are purging an entire ethnic minority using concentration camps.

And you three have yet to be able to cite an example of a religious-based hospital refusing medical care based on LGBT discrimination.

 Just making sure I have this right then - are you're arguing that because Santa Cruz have some production in China, they must support any other form of discrimination, lest they be evil hypocrites? Or is the argument that because you called out Santa Cruz for producing in China, you should be allowed to discriminate against any other group you feel isn't deserving of basic human services, like non-emergency medical care?

One thing I am clear on, no one is saying religious-based hospitals have definitely refused medical care based on LGBT discrimination (to do so would as yet be illegal) - we're just saying there shouldn't be a law to actually support anyone who wants to do that.

To be honest, this isn't at all where I thought that bit of extra news would take things, but I've always believed conversation is the way to counter division. This article is so old, I'm pretty sure it's just the two of us anyway now.

No question China's actions against Uighurs are horrific, so I 100% agree with you there. But why is that point included in an argument whether or not anyone should support further discrimination elsewhere in the world?

I realize the two options in my opening paragraph to this comment might seem like extremes, but if you remove all the nuance from your arguments, that's all that you're left with, so I hope you'll reconsider whether or not you can support a statement that "discrimination is bad" - without any qualifications. Thanks for the conversation.

 @jspier: You keep straw manning the position.

It is hypocritical to boycott Alabama (by not launching your new product there) but not boycott China, when Alabama is not acting in a purely evil way and the government of China is.

This law does not discriminate. It does not prevent people from getting access to healthcare. Removing a childs healthy genitals, either surgically or chemically, is not healthcare. Its child abuse and rightly should have criminal punishment. I accused all of you of being vague and non-specific because you keep referring to this law as discrimination, but not addressing what the law does- further codify the illegality of child abuse. Coward.

 letmegooglethat.com/?q=SB+289+the+Medical+Ethics+and+Diversity+Act

 @hamncheez: cite examples of doctors or medical organizations denying service to lgbtq individuals based on moral reasons?

www.aclunc.org/blog/catholic-hospitals-dont-have-license-discriminate

journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/bioethics/article/view/6630

There are countless examples all found on google. This isn’t a new problem at all. Just because you are unaware of it, doesn’t make it not an issue.

 @Austink: Your first link is for transgender surgery- that is not medical care that is cosmetic surgery. I'm reading more about your 2nd one.

 @hamncheez: a hysterectomy isn’t cosmetic surgery.... the problem is that the surgery was approved prior and then cancelled all due to “moral” reasons. The individual seeking surgery didn’t change, so if they approved a hysterectomy prior they must have felt it was warranted.

The courts in that case clearly said it was illegal to do such. The issue with all of this isn’t if hospitals are doing it (they are and have been) but if that should be legal.

 ahahaha.. gold!, judging by the downvotes, VPP fans have no sense of humor either, beside not knowing what makes a bike faster , as, for sure, having that SC sticker on the downtube makes it the fastest bike in the world, right? ))))

 @eugenux: chinese frame on sticker santa-cruz gets 25% faster

 The worst part was Joe Graney himself admitting the models with the shock driven by the upper link had inferior performance. The advent of the single chainring allowed them to finally tuck the rear shock low and driven by the lower link, which brought the VPP performance to the level of other dual link suspension systems.

 No problem. That's also the only thing in stock.

 @justwaki: I’ve never heard of Void. Does that make me more or less of a snob than yourself?

 @justwaki: Did Void go bust?

 @justwaki: aren't you polish?

 @makripper: I live in Sweden. Did you know that meat balls in Ikea are made of people who never found way out?

 @justwaki: Oh, so that's what SCP-3008 is for. Gosh those meatballs are great.

 High Pivot Virtual...

 @justwaki: HPV! New model name: "Papiloma"

 For these short travel bikes, the advantage of some heavier, more complex suspension layouts is not big enough to justify the weight gain.

 @JohanG: I often wonder... if those XC racers save weight everywhere, why not replace bearings with bushings and machine oversized axles to compensate for change in inner diameter

 The bushings in the SiD will self destruct first

 Massive complaints of lack of stiffness followed by different models that vary in stiffness so everyone can find the frame that's right for them.

 Full review tomorrow

 @CustardCountry: 4 days later...

 This would somewhat surprise me as given the recent XC racing foray it would be weird for their racers to not have a HT option for those courses where any potential penalty for no rear sus is outweighed by the benefit in the short track.

 They used to be all about single pivot. I guess old is new again? And maybe for xc courses vpp was overkill?

 The stem that looks like it's nose-diving into the ground would support your theory.

 Nino would love that negative stem angle.

 Anton during his cannondale days was the king of negative stems

 So much negativity here

 The optimum would be if SC fork would have integrated stem in its crown. Then it’s a rather short way to 32” wheels

 @jclnv, the headtube looks to be as short a they can possibly make it. What do you suggest?

The guy just likes a slammed stem.