RockShox's New Super Deluxe Shock - First Ride
After last week's somewhat cryptic press release about metric shock sizing from RockShox that didn't do much other than stir up a storm of comments, we’re now finally able to talk about what the announcement means and why RockShox has decided to change things up. Tied to this news is the release of two new air-sprung shocks, the Super Deluxe and the Deluxe, that have been made possible by the shift in shock sizing.
The Super Deluxe and Deluxe names might sound familiar to anyone who's been around for more than a decade, but much like how the new Pike has basically nothing in common with its original namesake, both the Super Deluxe and Deluxe are entirely new from the ground up. They are also an evolution of several years worth of work that involved stripping away the current rear shock sizing constraints, a step the RockShox says was required in order to develop an entirely new product.
The major difference between older designs and the Super Deluxe and Deluxe is a new set of metric eye-to-eye lengths, new metric stroke lengths, and reformed metric hardware options. More than that, though, there’s the claim of improved performance, with RockShox saying that both new shocks have ''drastically reduced friction'' thanks to increased bushing overlap, bearing-equipped eyelets, and new seals. We were told that all that adds up to unparalleled traction, increased durability, and that the new metric sizing will make everyone's lives easier, from suspension companies to the frame designer, right down to the end user.
All that sounds promising, but is it true? We spent three days with RockShox in North Vancouver to find out what the new shocks are all about and, more importantly, to see if they are actually any better than what's currently out there.
Super Deluxe Details
• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Metric sizing
• New bushing design
• New scraper seal
• Three independently tunable compression settings
• Spring: DebonAir or SoloAir
• Mount: trunnion, bearing, Standard DU
• Weight: RC3: 403g / R: 388g
• Will be available on select 2017 bike models
• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Metric sizing
• New bushing design
• New scraper seal
• Three independently tunable compression settings
• Spring: DebonAir or SoloAir
• Mount: trunnion, bearing, Standard DU
• Weight: RC3: 403g / R: 388g
• Will be available on select 2017 bike models
Deluxe Details
• Intended use: XC / trail
• Metric sizing
• New bushing design
• News scraper seal
• Spring: DebonAir or SoloAir
• Mount: trunnion, bearing, Standard DU
• Weight: RT3: 317g / RL: 311g / RT: 311 / R: 294 /
• Will be available on select 2017 bike models
• Intended use: XC / trail
• Metric sizing
• New bushing design
• News scraper seal
• Spring: DebonAir or SoloAir
• Mount: trunnion, bearing, Standard DU
• Weight: RT3: 317g / RL: 311g / RT: 311 / R: 294 /
• Will be available on select 2017 bike models
So what's different between the Super Deluxe and the Deluxe shocks? Both feature increased bushing overlap, new scraper seals, metric sizing, and bearing eyelets, but the Super Deluxe also sports a piggyback for more oil volume, and it has new and independently tunable compression settings. The Deluxe, on the other hand, features the damping system from RockShox's Monarch and is an inline style shock. Both will be available in three mounting styles: bearing eyelet, trunnion, and a standard DU setup. Neither will be available as an aftermarket upgrade, at least not anytime soon.
 |
Metric Sizing and How They Ended Up There
RockShox explained that it all started with one question: ''How can we replicate the success of the Pike fork but in a shock?'' During the development of Pike, RockShox said that they chased every single detail and opportunity for improvement, even if it meant looking beyond what they were doing at the time. So, taking that philosophy, they looked at how they could change and enhance their shock technology.
The first couple of things they wanted to do were to increase the bushing overlap to improve rigidity (which reduces loaded friction), and introduce a bearing into the eyelet. To tackle these changes, they knew they were going to need more space - the sizing framework that currently exists isn’t going to support their wishlist. And if they were going to toy with the notion of no boundaries, what else is possible, they wondered. How can they improve things for the rider, the shops, the designers, and the manufacturers?
Design Engineer Tim Lynch spent a full year looking for patterns and trends in RockShox's Tune Tracker database that includes all details of all the different bikes that they’ve ever worked with. He then isolated the five key suspension parameters that frame designers work within; percent rise, curve shape, average leverage ratio, stroke options, and mounting systems before beginning to hash out the opportunities for integration, design, and performance improvements.
Lynch saw that they could utilize the proposed extra space by developing consistent IFP (internal floating piston) volumes across the size range, a change that should provide a consistent feel between each shock size. The next area to address was to create a logical and evenly spaced size progression - hello, metric. Finally, they wanted to limit and focus the hardware options to make things simpler.
Lynch saw that they could utilize the proposed extra space by developing consistent IFP (internal floating piston) volumes across the size range, a change that should provide a consistent feel between each shock size. The next area to address was to create a logical and evenly spaced size progression - hello, metric. Finally, they wanted to limit and focus the hardware options to make things simpler.
RockShox had enough of a plan at that point that they could approach frame manufacturers to pitch the promise of performance improvements and standardization. It's a bit of a risk on their part, to be fair, as in order to accommodate the new sizing and mounting options, frame designers will have to make some adjustments to their design process. Many of the brands weighed up the options and, seeing the end advantages, agreed that although they will have to make accommodations, it won't impact their designs negatively.
With frame designers open to change, the final piece to this puzzle was going to be inviting the other suspension manufacturers to the party. RockShox says that they went door-knocking with the intention of bringing all of the players into the conversation and present the idea of developing a structured size range along with a hardware overhaul. The majority of the manufacturers saw the potential to make improvements in their own product lines, and together a new framework was built. Change is on its way and it is metric sizing.
 |
Tell Me About The New Sizes Already
Long story short, there is more length per stroke. For years, suspension manufacturers have been reactionary to the frame manufacturer's needs and no one had ever stopped to put a system in place. So now we have a set of shocks based on imperial sizing being converted to metric names that genuinely have no logical organizational structure. The whole bike industry is based in metric and now, with proper metric sizing, rear shocks are as well.
Everything the frame designer needs to develop a bike is still there, but now there is more logic to it. Frame designers will be able to choose shock stroke by 2.5mm increments so they can optimize the percent rise, curve and leverage ration of their frame designs.
 |
New, Simpler Hardware Sizing
Currently, there are eighty-two different hardware sizes to contend with, but the new metric standard uses only eighteen. Starting at 6 x 15mm and finishing at 10 x 40mm, the hardware changes in 5mm increments. This means that it will be more realistic for your local bike shop to stock the hardware sizes that you need, which means less time waiting on orders to come in, less rummaging through containers, filing down pieces, cutting parts with hack saws or wedging pieces in place.
The Tech Explained
Increased Bushing Overlap: So, imagine you are trying to install your thru-axle. It needs to be perfectly lined up otherwise it's going to require a lot of extra force to push it in because there is more friction. An increase in bushing overlap within the shock stiffens the junction between the damper body and the rest of the shock to keep it more in line with everything else, which prevents it from feeling like that misaligned thru-axle. The overlap on the air can bushings has been increased by 30%, and the piston / seal head bushing overlap has been increased by 90%. The theory being that when you’re riding your bike through a corner, and the bike is laid over while you’re hitting bumps and all the parts on your bike are twisting slightly, the extra rigidity will allow the shock to move freer to absorb the bumps and move through its travel.
Monarch Plus bushings overlap.
Super Deluxe bushings overlap.
Consistent IFP Across The Range: Current imperial sizing has inconsistent internal floating piston heights, and therefore varying amounts of room for a gas charge at full compression, which is something that affects spring force and makes it more difficult for a frame designer to predict the feel of the system. Certain size shocks dramatically changed force, so moving through sizes, designers have to change their kinematic or suspension design to accommodate this. However, RockShox says that with a consistent IFP height, there is now a baseline for designers to work within which can be further tuned to their needs.
Now, no matter what size shock you have, you will have the exact same force at bottom out. With the damper now creating a consistent feel, the amount of ramp (air volume) can be precisely controlled through a token system. For example, former Kona Product Manager (now RockShox Product Manager) Chris Mandell mentioned that when Kona was designing their line of Process bikes, there was a significant amount of design work to achieve a consistent feel. This new system would have alleviated some of those challenges.
 |
 On the left is the Monarch shock and on the right is the new Deluxe. Note the increased bushing overlap, and the additional IFP volume found within the Deluxe. |
Spring Systems - DebonAir and Solo Air: Instead of multiple air volume eyelets, air cans and volume spacer types, the Deluxe and Super Deluxe will come with either a built-in DebonAir or Solo Air can and riders can use a token system, just like with RockShox's forks, to tune how their shock's air spring ramps up through its stroke. The air cans feature a lighter and sleeker single walled sleeve as opposed to the double wall sleeve of the Monarch and Monarch Plus DebonAir systems.
 |
| The Super Deluxe from the inside, which now has individual and tunable pistons for open, climb and lockout. |
Super Deluxe's Improved Damper: RockShox's goal was to get that Vivid Air performance out of the Super Deluxe and still have all the necessary features. The patterns in the Tune Tracker showed that frame manufacturers wanted to independently tune a lot of this stuff, so they couldn’t have their firm and locked out settings interfere with the performance of the shock. Each setting now has its own piston that is independently tuneable so a company can set each setting exactly as they’d like for their product.
Sealed Bearing Mounts: When you are riding, your shock will rotate by roughly 70 - 120 degrees on one end of its mount while the other end will only rotate by about 5 - 15 degrees, depending on the design of your bike, of course.
By replacing the DU bushing with a bearing in the mount that sees the most rotation, something that a few aftermarket companies offer for current shocks, friction is greatly reduced and the shock is better able to work. Manufacturers can choose for this to be on either the shaft end or the body end, depending on which sees the most rotation.
By replacing the DU bushing with a bearing in the mount that sees the most rotation, something that a few aftermarket companies offer for current shocks, friction is greatly reduced and the shock is better able to work. Manufacturers can choose for this to be on either the shaft end or the body end, depending on which sees the most rotation.
The Trunnion Mount: Horizontally mounted shocks can deal with a bit of extra length, but vertically mounted shocks cannot, especially in smaller bikes where designers don’t want to adjust the top tube or standover height. A trunnion attachment has a mounting point on either side of the shock, a tactic that reduces the overall eye-to-eye length and opens up some packaging options that wouldn't be possible otherwise.
Designers will mount the bearings into their linkages - picture some Trek full-suspension bikes - and will then thread the mounting bolts into each side of the shock.
Designers will mount the bearings into their linkages - picture some Trek full-suspension bikes - and will then thread the mounting bolts into each side of the shock.
New Scraper Seal: The new scraper seal is physically larger, and RockShox says that it is more durable and performs better in cold weather. And, despite its increased size, they also claim that there is less friction compared to the smaller seals used on previous shocks.
Counter Measure Spring: Initially developed for the Vivid and Vivid Air, the Counter Measure is a negative spring that opposes the back-pressure from the internal floating piston. RockShox says that it is designed to massively reduce the initial breakaway force, something that should make the shock feel more supple at the top of its travel and when the stroke changes direction.
Super Deluxe Damper Shaft: The damper shaft is now larger in diameter and is said to provide added compression control by moving more oil as the shock goes through its travel.
Counter Measure Spring: Initially developed for the Vivid and Vivid Air, the Counter Measure is a negative spring that opposes the back-pressure from the internal floating piston. RockShox says that it is designed to massively reduce the initial breakaway force, something that should make the shock feel more supple at the top of its travel and when the stroke changes direction.
Super Deluxe Damper Shaft: The damper shaft is now larger in diameter and is said to provide added compression control by moving more oil as the shock goes through its travel.
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| The rebound adjustment on the Super Deluxe is now a disc that sits on the top of the shock for easier on the fly adjustments. |
A Few Important Questions Answered
Can I buy a Super Deluxe or Deluxe shock on its own? Nope, not yet. To try out the new metric shocks, you'll have to buy a new rig, and 2017 will see a lot of bikes using one of the new shocks.
Can I still use my older shock in a new metric frame? Nope, you can't. Different shock lengths and mounting hardware mean that this isn't possible.
Will RockShox still sell original sized shocks? Yes, they will. RockShox will offer legacy rear shocks until demand decreases, which they forecast to be around four or five years. Basically, they do plan to support the market until the market is no longer there.
Will the rest of the RockShock line be available in metric sizing? At this stage, the answer is no, but you don't need a crystal ball to see where things are going.
I spent three days riding the Super Deluxe shock on the terminally damp and dewy trails of North Vancouver aboard a Transition Patrol. I first rode the bike with a normal, 216 x 63mm Monarch Plus, which was then swapped out for the new, 230 x 65mm Super Deluxe, a change made possible by the use of a custom machined linkage. After all, what's the point in talking about the new stuff if you aren't comparing it to what came before? It's also worth mentioning that RockShox shared next to no information about the new shock prior to me riding it, with the idea being that I'd be able to come to my own conclusion without "looking for" anything that I might expect to be feeling on the trail.
What did I feel? The difference between the standard Monarch Plus and the Super Deluxe was immediately noticeable, both while climbing and descending.
Sitting in for a long ascent with the Super Deluxe under me, the first thing I noted was the increased stability compared to when the bike had the older shock mounted on it. Stability as in the bike was tracking smoothly over the terrain, with its suspension expanding and contracting as it reached for the uneven and rocky ground like a rock crawler would. I'd describe the sensation as the bike feeling more connected to the ground, and myself feeling more connected to both.
And what about the fun stuff? The first descent that I took the bike down consisted of a succession of perfectly sculpted berms that seemed to be made of hero dirt. Yes, I am talking about North Vancouver. Diving into each corner, something felt different compared to before. Rather than my pumping motions being wasted, every push I made into the bike's suspension was transferred into the trail without the back of the bike cramping up as I exited the corner. Instead, I was carving delicious turns into the dirt. Yes, the bike felt great with the Monarch Plus, but very different things were happening when the Super Deluxe was attached to the same machine.
Next up was some of the more typical trails that you might think of when someone says North Vancouver. Technical, twisting singletrack that seems to be equal parts dirt and roots; the kind of stuff that can cause some clenching anytime of the year, let alone when things are wet and soggy. And things were wet and soggy. The Super Deluxe, however, was anything but soggy as it continued to consent to my commands. The back of the bike tracked the ground immensely well, better than it did when the Monarch Plus was in play, which surely means that traction was improved. Over the next three days, it was all I could do to not shove my clipped-in feet into every bump, hole, and corner on the trail in order to feel the rear wheel track over everything.
Three days of riding does not make a test, and by no means was this a proper test, but it certainly was a thorough introduction on some serious terrain. Real terrain that allows one to know how their suspension is performing. The Transition Patrol felt like the total package once the Super Deluxe was bolted onto it, and this is a bike that is known to be a good performer right out of the box.
In the past, I had been focussed more on what the front of my bikes were doing, and largely letting the rear 'get by' as it was never fully going to respond how I wanted it to. But both ends of the Patrol felt like they were on the same program once the Super Deluxe was installed. The bike felt more complete.
In the past, I had been focussed more on what the front of my bikes were doing, and largely letting the rear 'get by' as it was never fully going to respond how I wanted it to. But both ends of the Patrol felt like they were on the same program once the Super Deluxe was installed. The bike felt more complete.
As mountain bikers, we tend to be a skeptical bunch that like to question the validity of every change, and rightfully so. Parting with our hard earned cash to keep up-to-date with the so-called latest and greatest can really leave a dent in the pocketbook, not to mention your trust. But, after three days on the Super Deluxe, I can tell you that there is a clear difference between it and its predecessor. Granted, it was only three days, and we have no gauge on long-term performance outcomes. But if this new metric sizing change means that all suspension and frame manufacturers can make a better product, then I am intrigued to see what unfolds.
Photos by Adrian Marcoux
MENTIONS: @SramMedia / @TransitionBikeCompany
Author Info:
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dv65 0.107188
That said. Bike doesnt make a rider. A rider makes a bike.
Not that I dont have the money, ill have imperial rebuild pics up soon. And ill admit, alot of parts are 2014 and up or new 2010.
A used bike is only as valuable as the owner sees fit. Somewhere theres a buyer who will agree. Ride you bike and love it, make it family and the value goes to an unsellable point. Offer me 20,000$ for my imperial, ill still say no. Say i shred the headtube off, offer me 30000, ill still say no.
28.3 grams in an Ounce
2.2 Pounds in a Kilo.
The funniest thing is we all made the metric upgrade before it even existed, turn the ruler overXD...
Bet you they'll make a new and improved 215.9MM shock size.Or wait 216mm, thats whats going to make a bike obsolete. .1mm
"Will RockShox still sell original sized shocks? Yes, they will. RockShox will offer legacy rear shocks until demand decreases, which they forecast to be around four or five years. Basically, they do plan to support the market until the market is no longer there."
www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/MapOfCountriesNotMetric-800px.jpg
"Long story short, there is more shock stroke per eye-to-eye length."
Then below is a chart that completely contradicts it. #whoslying
Heck, I've had several complete metric tool sets for 20+ years, as even fricken HD uses metric(mixed with standard mind you), and every car/truck I've owned for the last 15+ years-even American made- has had all metric fasteners.
Lastly, if you were ever in the military(U.S.), you learned not only the metric system-real fast- but also the 24h clock as well.
But I submit this isn't the issue.
EVERY bike I've owned in the past 3-4 years(and I've had a bit of a problem buying 2-3/year) has had fricken METRIC SUSPENSION.
I mentioned this in another post, but I'll do it again: My Enduros-all four of them-1- 26", 1- 27.5", 2- 29", HAVE HAD METRIC SUSPENSION!! Shocks-216x63mm, or 216x57.2mm. Forks-160mm.
Heck, the Fox forks on my '15 951 are 'sized' by their 40mm STANCHIONS, and have been for what, 7 years? How in the heck is that not metric?>!>?>!>!>?>?>!
SO, AGAIN, WTF!>?>!>?
The thing here is that it's metric based and is 'rounded' to 5 or 10 mm, not some argle bargle of 1/8th of a king's thumb or something.
Also, too many people get hung up on the metric part, this is just a part of the whole novelty, which gives us sensible lengths, not some arbitrary king's thumb measurements, that are about 200, about 216 and about 222 mm. And the strokes about 51 mm, about 57 and about 63 mm.
The idea of metric sizes is cool. The idea of better damping due to more space, supposedly better endurance and, mainly, bearings in the eyelets, is the most awesome part of this new system.
We'd probably be a little less skeptical when these changes come by.
Jules: They don't call it a quarter inch shock?
Vincent: No man, they got the metric system. They wouldn't know what the f*ck a quarter inch shock is.
Jules: Then what do they call it?
Vincent: They call it a Super Deluxe.
Jules: A Super Deluxe. What do they call a DBair?
Vincent: Well, a DBair is a DBair, but they call it le DBair.
Jules: Le DBair. Ha ha ha ha. What do they call a Float?
Vincent: I dunno, I didn't go into Fox.
Can I ALSO contact marketing and claim said prize?
Basically, todays bikes are obsolete.
"Will RockShox still sell original sized shocks? Yes, they will. RockShox will offer legacy rear shocks until demand decreases, which they forecast to be around four or five years. Basically, they do plan to support the market until the market is no longer there."
"Currently, there are eighty-two different (imperial) hardware sizes to contend with, but the new metric standard uses only eighteen. ... This means that it will be more realistic for your local bike shop to stock the hardware sizes that you need, which means less time waiting on orders to come in, less rummaging through containers, filing down pieces, cutting parts with hack saws or wedging pieces in place."
82 options vs.18. Math it up.
xkcd.com/927
For the next 4-5 years, yes, and then there will be 18 after that. It would be almost suicide for RS to just stop servicing imperial models in 2017.
And since Fox hasn't joined the group, if you have a Fox shock after 2016 you won't be able to switch it out for another brand without an aftermarket custom adapter.
Said SRAM.
Err, well, from RS' production perspective maybe, however to me and my need to service my old legacy DHX4, Vivid Coil, CCDB and their corresponding hardware bits and pieces, it seems more like this;
"Currently, there are eighty-two different hardware sizes to contend with, but with the eighteen new hardware sizes of the metric standard, this will increase to one hundred"
Since they're already making shocks that won't work with some old sizes, why not convert to using standard metric increments at the same time, since this is one of the last bastions of imperial measurement in bikes?
Because only 3 countries in the world use the Imperial measurement system. Come on USA, catch up to the rest of the planet.
www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/postages/MapOfCountriesNotMetric-800px.jpg
Sounds like they wanted to do a complete overhaul of their shock line, so they used "We're going to metric!" as an excuse.
The truth is they needed to make the shock longer for every stroke- in other words, nothing will properly fit anyways, regardless of using metric or imperial. The bonus is at least its metric- that will make everyone's lives easier.
Also there is so much new stuff, you may as well ride what you have into the ground. All my parts are practically worthless- 135QR, 26, hardtail. There really isn't anything wrong with the old stuff, and most bikes are aluminum and practically designed to break apart after 5 or 6 yrs of hard use. I would not call this the straw that broke the camel's back- rather, it is on a long list of reasons not to spend money upgrading. Complete or bust.
Not without units it isn't.
If SRAM is going to throw away all the old shock lengths and strokes, then it makes perfect sense that the new ones be aligned with easily divisible unites like 10s in the metric system.
So instead of 82 different sizes there are now 100?
The fact these shocks are measured in metric vs imperial measurements really has nothing at all to do with what has changed.
What has changed is the design philosophy. Previously, shocks were built to fit into existing frame designs, with sizes haphazardly created based on existing frame designs. Now, shocks are built in a more standardized way such that the shock is designed as a single system first, and then bike manufacturers will design their frames based on these new shocks, which have consistent differences in sizing. This allows the shocks to be optimized for performance first, instead of being restricted by what can be done within existing frame design constraints. Yes, frame designs will have to be changed, but, to put it bluntly, suck it up. Things change. That's how humans/nature/technology evolves, instead of just stagnating.
TL;DR: Frames will be designed around shocks, instead of shocks being designed around frames. This allows for less restrictions on the shock research/design/build procedure, and thus better overall shock design.
Part of me applauds the theory / engineering behind it, the other part of me wants to kick someone in the nuts.
New stuff is cool, new stuff with marginal and intangible improvements that is incompatible with everything else is not.
How new bike tech seems to go for like, 90% of the population:
Step 1: Anger
"WTF is this new SHIT that those EVIL f*ckING BIKE COMPANIES are trying to SHOVE DOWN MY THROAT NOW?!"
Step 2: Denial
"I'll NEVER switch to suspension forks/rear suspension/20mm forks/disc brakes/hydraulic brakes/29er/1.5/tapered/dropper posts/15mm axles/650b/boost"
Step 3: Bargaining
"Man, I found a great deal on this new frame... guess I'll give 29ers a chance"
Step 4: Depression
"Wow, my new bike goes through rough trail depressions way faster than my old one!" (I know that one is reaching, gimme a break.)
Step 5: Acceptance
"I can't imagine riding the bike I had 10 years ago! No dropper?! PBBBTTTTTT"
You have to understand that some people bought a brand new bike 2016 bike that they haven't even received and yet have already been pushed aside by RS when it comes to any product upgrade that might be released down the line. These people are understandably angry and I'm sure you can understand how senseless things have become and why people have come to resent any new standard.
Yea, because SRAM only makes press fit BBs now! Actually wait, no, they still make all kinds. In fact, they have a better selection of 24mm cranks than most brands do.
Let's see, can you get brand new SRAM hubs in non-boosted sizes? yep. Heck, you can even get those fancy new Hope Pro 4s, too.
Lets see, can you still get straight steerered forks from SRAM? yep, & let's be serious, it's been more than 5 years since Tapered became the defacto new standard, even more if you count how many bikes had 1.5" headtubes that work fine with tapered.
Yea, I'm just not seeing "SRAM will never make any improvements to shocks in imperial sizes after this." Sounds like baseless speculation.
The Space Shuttle and the Horse's Rear End
www.astrodigital.org/space/stshorse.html
"So a major design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was originally determined by the width of a horse's ass."
...hang on, when was the last time I bought something new and @ retail? When is the world going to run out of good used bikes and parts? When was the last time rockshox made a dime out of me? And when will I ever be riding along wishing my shock stroke was still measured in inches rather than mm, or vice versa? (Relaxes somewhat)
- Bearings ? BOS is offering it already, many aftermarket companies too, no need for changing the standards for it.
- Consistent IFP through the range ? Yes you can do it on current sizes too, you just didn't bothered so far.
- Simplifying hardware sizing ? Could have been done ages ago too, no need for new standard here.
- Trunnion mount ? I had a call for GT and they told me to let their STS and LTS bikes in the past, they were nice but leave the there.
So only kind of advantage of "metric" is the possibility to put more bushings in the shock, problem that is not one if your frame is rigid enough where it needs to be ...
Thanks Sram/RS for more shit to come on the market and make our current shocks worthless in few year. From 1 or 2 years from now you will change Forks pivots sizes as the 650b replacement will have been done and you want to kill the 2nd hand market once more ?
Also, if it won't retrofit, how were you able to bolt it on to the Patrol in place of the standard 216 Monarch?
Confused.
i also wonder what this change did to any leverage ratios or travel path/forces on the bike... shock stanchion travel with a few extra mm's there and so on...
I also want to say that I think moving to metric sizing is a good idea, especially if it changes the design philosophy like others have mentioned down below. I have more of a problem with the new shocks than with the change to metric.
Metric offerings are 190x45 and 210x50.
In the first case (swaping for 190x45 shock) you lost something like 15.7 mm travel at rear wheel assuming constant ratio so basically your bike gets 118 mm rear wheel travel instead of 134 and as the eye to eye length is the same your bike will become steeper since less sag at rear wheel for the same sag at shock.
In the second case, well, there is not second case since the shock just won't fit even is the yoke is redisigned.
I would like to hear from rock shox that the monarch lineup will still benefit from update and developpement for users stuck with their 2016 "legacy" frame.
These tests crack me up! This one is majestic: it is telling us that you would be able to tell the difference between a 2.0 inches eye to eye shock and a 508 millimeters one!!!!!
Blind tests, please, you will never be able to find any difference due to "increased bushing overlap" or triviality such that if you tried.
Yeah right
Am I getting this right? SRAM if you claim to have wanted to build a rear shock that was the equivalent to the pike in what it did for the industry you may have wanted to f*cking acknowledge how many people "upgraded" to the Pike. If you are unsure what what means; it means people bought one for their sometimes later model and current model bikes to increas their performance. Who builds an OEM part that's better than the current after market one they offer? Why don't you just start eliminating charger dampers from your top of the line forks and install it just in your XC 32s and call it a day. Don't forget to make sure that XC 32 has a new steer tube standard to better f*ck us with.
What a bunch of shit.
Also, I'd like to correct myself from before. The reign is a 57mm shock not a 63mm. The reign SHOULD have a 63mm+ shock.
I'm on a process 111 and though my monarch which I upgraded with a debonair bandaid kit is doing a pretty good job i was pretty pumped when I heard the new stuff was going to be a whole lot better. Flash forward to today and now I'm seeing that it doesn't even matter anymore.... I'm aloud to be not happy. Down right grumpy! Lol
In your example of the reign surely the issue is that the rebound tune is to low for the heavier riders and a change to H tune rather than mid is all thats required? (im not sure what tune giant went for btw this is just an example). youd get the reverse for the lighter rider. but no manufacturer is going to spec their bikes with shock tunes based on rider weight theyd go for the middle ground any one outside of that will always need some form of custom tuning.
I get what theyre trying do ie make manufacturers build a frame around a specific shock size which has specific characteristics/tuning but they could achieve the same with the existing sizes and just phase out the sizes that dont work. changing to metric is just a money making exercise surely.
thanks for a new product even when your "older" did not last one summer. Still waiting for my reverb to return (yes, it did not work anymore) and also for my boxxer (where I as a medium aggressive rider blew the charger).
My Pike did not last one summer and I had it in use for two years now. I also think my Monarch Debon Air is losing air and so overall I am not impressed at all.
Future plan - avoid any SRAM or ROCK SHOX products ;-)
I don't care
I don't care
I don't care
About this news
I don't care
About that shock
I don't care
I don't care
I don't care
About these standards
I don't care
-Ramones
@rachellefrazer: Thanks for the fun read! Hey, it would be fun to do an article written in different styles. There was one for internet trolls, so why not?
I'm not saying there's not plenty of improvement here and consistency standardization but metric has nothing to do with it. An inch is 2.54 cm no matter how it's specified. That said, I understand the desire to move toward metric sizing as all other specs and dimensions will typically be called out in SI units.
"the first thing I noted was the increased stability compared to when the bike had the older shock mounted on it"
Statements like that make me immediately call BULL and become a skeptic.
Put her on the Transition 5 times and switch the shock back and forth without her knowing and then tell me her average guessing which is which.
The true test would be on demo day at the local trail/park...when we ride them ourselves.
I guess BUST148 was morer importanter ;/
Super Delux RC3 190x45 403g---Monarch Plus RC3 216x63 335g
Super Deluxe R 190x45 388g-----Monarch Plus R 216x63 335g
Deluxe RT3 190x45 317g-----------Monarch RT3 165x38 215
Deluxe RL 190x45 311g-------------Monarch RL 165x38 215
Or in some cases, bike companies may supply the parts if the model remains unchanged in 2017.
I could see Santa Cruz making a running change to the V2 Bronson / 5010 to accommodate the new shocks.
It had this feature known as "SPRITZ MODE".
My god man. Are they insane????
It's like rebadging the Goodyear Blimp "The Hindenburg". Why in hell are they proud to bring back that name for the love of all that is right in this world. :0
I do like RS suspension a lot and a new damper design is fine and all, but why hype up that it's metric? Who the hell cares what ruler you use to build the thing, the only things i care about are: 1) does it fit my bike and 2) is it actually better than what i'm using now.
SRAM says this new way of 'sizing' their shocks was needed in order to create these better shocks?
WTF? EvERyBODY's existing shocks were ALREADY listed in metric sizes.
My 2013 26 Enduro came with a 216x63mm shock, my '15 29" Enduro came with a 216x57.2mm.
In case anybody isn't aware, the first number is the 'eye to eye measurement, and the second is the stroke, which in the above issued press release, we're told that these metric numbers allowed SRAM to create new shocks.
PB had a golden opportunity here to clear the fricken air, but as usual they dropped the ball.
Just have to make sure you have a reliable shock that will outlast your frame, when the switch will be made completely.
I´m going to fox, obiously
It's stated in the article that the trunion mounting allows for a longer shock body for a given e-2-e length.
Only the mounting style needed to change for these advantages in design!!
Rockshox could have just partnered with the bike companies to offer linkages that fit trunion style shocks, they just wanted this to be another giant/OD2 story. Now instead of just avoiding one brand you will have to avoid all mainstream brands to use any existing parts you might have.
Just another way to sell new bikes seeing your 26 wheels and forks, now shock won't fit
Of course when they reviewed the Monarch(RT3 Debonair yada yada) it was THE greatest thing since sliced bread, but magically now it packs in and sucks up dirt glods leaving berms, isn't 'stable', and we all need to now go out and buy not only new shocks, but NEW BIKES that house said new shocks, 'cuz SRAM colluded with bike manufacturers to make it so the only choice we'll have in a couple years is to toss the old and bend over for the un-lubed, high-hard-one for the new one.
Quote:
Can I still use my older shock in a new metric frame? Nope, you can't. Different shock lengths and mounting hardware mean that this isn't possible.
But they will still offer the older measurement shocks for a good few years yet, so youll be able to put a 2017 monarch plus debonair rct3 on your 2016 frame.
It's a good month for bike tech.
SHAME ON YOU, SRAM
Stop bleating about anything new as if it is destroying the 'soul' of riding a bike. Remeber the 80's bikes, don't try and say change is bad.
Either way when this metric thing is in full swing, you'll still be able to buy a used non-metric shock and send it for custom tuning (Push, Avalanche). Your custom non-metric shock will be wayyy better than any new shock out there.
BUT TRUNION MOUNTS! METRIC! IT'S HIP AND EURO!
can we have a "worst innovation of the year" award please? Because this started as a bad joke, and now it's turned into a nightmare.
When I read this article, that was the first thing that popped into my mind when the author was talking about the new shock and how it felt on the trail. I'm sure the new design is great and all, but those bearings replacing bushings are a huge part of making the shock work better, in my opinion. Cheers!
*rolls on with his 1995 Trek winter beater with a 2005 RS Duke SL*
AND, kinda pisses me off they did it the day before April 1st.
I don't understand how PB says the shocks are not compatible with current shock sizing, yet they used the different standards on the same Transition Patrol?
Could you clarify please guys?
"I first rode the bike with a normal, 216 x 63mm Monarch Plus, which was then swapped out for the new, 230 x 65mm Super Deluxe, a change made possible by the use of a custom machined linkage. "
as someone else mentions, they either had a linkage from the 2017 patrol, or rockshox / transition custom made a linkage for this demonstration.
Ah. So it is indeed possible, but Rockshox won't be making the adaptors. Loud and clear!
Makes me wonder how easily some manufactures could make specific geo chips to accommodate the size difference.
Surely this is easy to do and fits a huge number of bikes. Even if they shortened the stroke a little.
EVERYTHING is metric - it's just a measurement.
"rockshox is a mess"
"rockshox is a big mistake"
Why the f*ck not??
Ok, but on the other side, can I put a metric shock on an "old" frame ? It seems to be ok since Rachelle did it.
"aboard a Transition Patrol, but I first rode the bike with a normal, 216 x 63mm Monarch Plus before switching to the new, 230 x 65mm Super Deluxe. "
"...a change made possible by the use of a custom machined linkage"