Descending Have you ever pushed a real cross-country bike hard on the descents? I'm not talking about a light trail bike here, but an actual race rig with pinner rubber, steep angles, and probably no party post. It's a frightening feeling at best, but the thing to remember is that these guys are often trying to recover on the descent, not set a new PR or take a wild line that saves them a second or two during a three-minute run like in a downhill race. Instead, these are two and three-hour races were pacing can play a big part, so a full-on cross-country bike is far from being optimized, and far from being fun, on the downhills. In fact, the opposite is often the case.
But this thing is different. This thing is fun. And fast.
Of course, I didn't need a crystal ball to know that the SB100 is going to be more capable than many other bikes of similar travel, but it was still a surprise to feel how solid and stable the little SB100 is. It holds a line infinitely better than a lighter, quicker handling bike, no doubt due to the relatively meaty rubber that Yeti chose to spec, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the frame is also much more resilient to flex than something that weighs a pound or two less.
You want to stay on the inside even though it's littered with roots and loose rock? You'll be much more likely to do it on the SB100 than you will on a more run of the mill 100mm-travel bike, and that opens up lines for riders who might not usually choose them when on a normal cross-country machine.
The Blur (on the left) and the Scalpel (on the right) are both competitors to the SB100, but neither are quite as capable on the descents.
That same confidence can be applied to other parts of the trail, too, and I have no doubt that anyone is going to be quicker and more at ease on a scary descent on the SB100 than they would be if they were on a steeper bike with a longer stem. If you're not, you should work on your skills before considering a new bike.
But where are the SB100's limits? Well, Yeti has done something really special with their short-travel bike's suspension, but at a certain point, 100mm is always going to be 100mm no matter what you do with it. I've spent time on all sorts of 100mm bikes, and because I tend to ride a cross-country rig like I don't have much to live for besides my cat, I'm usually forced to run around 20-percent sag if I don't want to clang off the end of the stroke and then walk around with a cane after the ride. As you'd expect, that makes a bike less than amazing on the small stuff where traction comes into play, which is then aggravated by tires that probably belong on a cyclocross bike.
Like going fast on a short-travel bike? Me too, and the SB100 feels the same.
The SB100, at the recommended 32-percent number, is more forgiving and no doubt delivers more grip, too, but that's not a surprise. I mean, look at the tires, and it has a load more sag. But the surprise is at the other end of the travel: The damn thing doesn't want to bottom-out. I'm sure all you guys on 150mm bikes are thinking "So what? Neither does my bike," but you need to understand how shitty a 100mm-travel bike usually feels when you're at ten-tenths because the whole thing is a compromise; pick traction or bottom-out control, Mr. Bib Shorts, because ya can't have both. Only, you can with the SB100.
Relatively speaking - after all, it's still just 100mm - the back of the SB100 is supremely supple and delivers traction while not bobbing, but it also has enough ramp-up to make 32-percent sag on a cross-country-ish bike a real option. Actually, not just an option, it's the best way to run the little Yeti.
This is quite the bike, but its limits are more obvious on long, rough descents that test your hands and feet as much as the suspension and traction. You'll tire quicker than on something more forgiving, and while the SB100 is far more merciful than other bikes of similar travel, your margin for error is still smaller than it would be on a slacker, squishier rig. I guess that's not exactly the bike's fault, however, as that's really just inherent in the type of bike that it is, and it'd be like me talking trash about a downhill rig for being a handful on technical climbs. Yeah, no shit, Sherlock.
First Evil, now Randy, wtf guys!
Chances of spotting that Yeti in the mountains are an order of magnitude lower than seeing the hairy one.
Yeti SB-100 X01 Turq with wheel upgrade $8899, but you get Kashima!
Oh, you mean ridiculous and unattainable for mere mortals?
(grabs helmet and rides away on his YT)
It's not fair that you've aquired more money working hard and saving than I did jerking off in my mom's basement and spending my bike shop salary on weed and 50to1 stickers.
I'm too much of a coward to say any of this to your face, but I feel empowered by the anonymity of the internet. Also, I really like getting "+" props from other unmotivated and bitter people.
See? That was simple.
Seems like reviewers sometimes forget what they rode/wrote in the past.
I’ll rephrase it just for you though: I’m such a hack rider that it likely wouldn’t make any difference if I was on this frame anymore than several others.
Feel better now?
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2018/04/yeti-cycles-sb100-2019.html
and immediately jumping to the level 10 rage descriptors and posting orders like you’re somebody’s internet daddy isn’t likely to add any validity in your attempt to make a credible point. I doubt you’re a fanboi just lashing out, but it kind of comes across that way by responding as such. Or maybe a Democrat.
There is a connection between work ethos and wealth, but it is no golden rule that always applies and making assumptions on individuals based on this rule seems simplistic, unwise, and frankly kind of arrogant.
But unless I win Powerball next week, it’d be awfully hard for me to justify spending $8,000 on a SB100 when the 120mm Intense Sniper Trail exists, and comes in at under 24lbs on their $6,500 build.
One thing I don’t care for on these new Yetis is the integrated headset. I much prefer choosing the headset angle I may prefer rather than the take it or leave it approach typically only seen on cheaper bikes than at the top tier level.
“ ... there is simply not another bike that pedals as well as a Switch Infinity equipped Yeti ...”
“ ... Levy made a mistake ...”
“ ... dont come on here telling people ...”
“ ... That is utterly false ...”
Having your own opinion is fine, but acting like it’s the only one that matters, can’t be wrong, and is the end of all discussion doesn’t do yourself any favor on the credibility scale. Maybe try opening your mind and seeing things differently from other perspectives?
Otherwise having gone to votech school in my teens to become a welder/metal fabricator before going back to school to instead become a Mech Eng in that industry at age 30 (now just a mid-age old fart) I have only the greatest respect for anyone who works and contributes positively to society regardless of their job, but for craftspeople in particular. The discussion doesn’t have anything to do with how we make our living though.
Peace out.
Yetis are sick bikes! I like em! Are they outrageously priced? Hard to say. Do I wish they were less expensive? Absolutely!
Am I going to ride an SB 150 next season? Yes
Does my wife know about it? Not yet.
Is she going to kill me when she finds out? Likely..
Its just moutain biking. No need to take it too seriously.
Every time I try and build up from a frame for anything close to a manufacturer's build kit price, I come up way over.
I don’t understand why people keep on complaining about how expensive Yeti bike. Their frames MSRP are $400 to $500 more expensive than an average carbon bike out there. But you should easily get 10% - 20% off even on a just released frame thru your LBS. Most of the people that ride Yeti bikes, they just build them from the frame cause they all know that it’s cheaper that way. And BTW Specialized currently selling their S-Work Epic Ultralight frame for $3,900, if we’re talking about pricey frames.
Cheers
Which leads me to believe that someone within Yeti itself really wanted this bike, regardless of what the marketing department says. Kudos to Yeti for having this kind of thinking within their organization.
I'm not sure but I think this kind of bike could help all the roadies and xc guys that constantly lock their rear wheel, skip tech sections, drops, and ride like kooks on their expensive light bikes with their 1.95 slick stupid tyres. Did I describe accurately your friends from lake guarda @WAKIdesigns ?
Now for reals, I do see place for 100mm bike. It makes sense to me as long as it has a fork no bigger than 120 and proper Xc tyres like XR2 or Ikon, maybe something slightly knobbier in the front. That's a loose shredder. Fine. I only whine on grey zone between that and SB150, the Down Country. My buddy just bought Trek Fuel EX and mounted Lyrik to it. I'll be poking him until he hates me.
I custom built a ti hardtail that has geo numbers VERY close to this with a 120mm fork, and its as perfect as you can get I feel. I'm 5'9", and with a reach of 480 and a 40mm stem its the most balanced I've ever felt on a bike.
@kiksy I know. That's why I just put 2 Rock razors on my 160 bike for local XC .
You are shorter than average but want the geo on an L/XL? Surely a medium should be dialled for the average size person?
The tomahawk can wear i suppose but it sheds mud really well, hooks up on off chamber better, and can be run in more conditions i've found here.
ill take a tire a season and be stable vs 2 years on an aggressor.
Have you tried air on your Swoop? I would think a good air can stuffed with tokens would do the trick.
The hei Hei are very similar to the SB100 in numbers and philosophy. It would be interesting to see a comparison.
www.ridegg.com/trailpistol
www.pinkbike.com/news/kona-hei-hei-dl-29-review-2016.html
It’s shame these new breed carbon 29er frame are so freaking heavy. I have a hei hei dl 29. It’s so light. Would love a similar version with a little more travel.
Yeti's switch Infinity is an incredible demonstration of unnecessary weight and complexity for marginal shifts to the leverage ratio curve which could (should) be simplified to a single pivot design.
Stop.
Pass on the weight saving and simplicity gains by replacing switch infinity for single pivot from a near-race-rig.
Jolanda Neff laughed her ass off at that one.
If Jolanda wouldn't go to the front of every damn race at the start she would probably be riding off the front at the end of every race too.
Going off the start hard is a tactic of hers as she knows it wastes the older riders who don't have have the zero to 100% that she has. Sometimes it doesn't work out but she's an all-out feeling based racer. Same as VdP. One of the reasons she's my favourite in any discipline.
XCO, Marathon, normal XC races w/e if you can't hang on the climbs, which is most of the race, you won't be in a position to attack. Its really that simple.
This is cut and pasted directly from Redbull.com.
"Breaking away from the chain Jolanda Neff, Annika Langvad and Kate Courtney accelerated ahead. With Neff dictating the pace, her noticeably faster descending saw her quickly make time on Specialized team-mates Langvad and Courtney."
All she has to do is match them on the climbs and she wins races on DESCENTS. And she does, often. Fact. Holy f*ck do we watch the same races?
You're right that after a certain point it gets maybe a bit out of its depth, but I guess you just have to know your own limits, and learn the bike's.
with short travel 29ers its different. at least on easy and medium level trails they carry momentum better than anything else and make you feel like some sort of demigod until suddenly the rockgarden you tried to double catches you out. with a hardtail i am always slower and aware that the margin of error is very small.
"I tend to ride a cross-country rig like I don't have much to live for besides my cat, I'm usually forced to run around 20-percent sag if I don't want to clang off the end of the stroke and then walk around with a cane after the ride."
Good one
*increasing the trail and/or decreasing the head angle will increase the wheel flop factor on a bicycle or motorcycle*
lowering offset increases trail.
but this is blogvertising soo
More fork offset equals sharper/quicker steering by decreasing trail, even as it increases wheelbase.
Less fork offset slows steering and increases wheel flop by increasing trail, even as it decreases wheelbase.
My impression with the current move to shorter offset is that it might result in bumps affecting the front wheel less.
It’s easy to think we’ve found the range of workable trail numbers in 43-51mm, and now the market is working out the optimum number. Also easy to think it makes little difference either way and it’s just marketing detail.
My mechanic told me he knew 4 people owning the same bike including 3 who had the same problem with the main pivot.
Over here in France I can see few used sb 5.5 being sold with brand new Switch Infinity systems, the system being under guarantee.
Despite the known issue I had it fixed and I keep enjoying the hell out of this machine. The bike seems to fit great to epic rides in the Alps ☺
I truly believe that for some of us that are going for a decent time and 12th place in our age class (that's after a meaningless sprint to the line with a 20 year old on a Cromag hardtail with freeride wheels) - these new bikes are a great idea. You have done a great job of explaining this in your article. It shows how cross country is having a bit of an identity crisis right now. There are so many options.
There is a very small number of us that actually complete at UCI type XC lap events compared to those of us that do epic point to point XC races/rides that its great to see manufacturers adjusting their bike spec's.
thanks for the great review and comparison.
Cheers
Your reading comprehension appears to be stellar.
Have a good day, "buddy". Good stuff
Bottom line, buddy, is that you came after me, my logic, and my intelligence in response to a simple post about Kate descending well. Maybe it would have pleased you more if I followed that up by saying Annika didn't but it appears you were out to call people out.
Take your ball and go home champ.
I don't know how it rides but I read a lot of reviews telling about a bottomless feel. Makes me curious.
As a engineer I really like the tech stuff hidden inside the frame. It is just a beauty.
@Yeti, props to the engineering and webdesigners!
For those webdesigners here around. Have you seen there website? Speechless. The bike sells, their story and website sells.
One word WOWW!!
If you have a DH or FR bike, getting a 130mm bike kinda makes sense. overlap is waste of money
* Seems like this is a short-travel bike that climbs like it has 150mm of travel... It's usually the other way around.
* How are you going to test a 100mm bike and not wear a lick of spandex?
Wheel flop f = sin ∂ cos ∂ t
Therefore, decrease in offset -> increase in trail -> increase in wheel flop.
Or to give an example:
A Pinarello Dogma 65.2 has a head tube angle of 70.5° and offset of 43 mm has flop of 23 mm
A Cervelo R5 has the same head tube angle of 70.5° and offset of 53 mm and had less wheel flop 20 mm.
Source (article refers to offset as "rake"): rolobikes.com/pdf/rolo-wheel-flop.pdf
Hate to be wrong!
For rough, rocky, technical backcountry climbing I'd want a bash. I get that XC bikes don'e come with one, but bikes built to go into the mountains and climb trails not made for bikes are going to be dragging the chainring (and frame) over rocks - which I realize is unheard of in the era of smooth flow trails. Any bike with aspirations to act like a trail bike needs one IMO.
Maybe I should "ride more tech" or you guys should learn to ride the tech... Pretty sure it's the latter
there are several ski resorts right by me. people fly from all over the world to ski and ride them. they are not the best skiing, not even in the area.
Of course we all can ride without one. I rode triple for years everywhere. Bent many rings. So what. Bash is better.
To answer your other question/implication, could I work on my skills? Yes, I do all the time. Yet another reason I need a bash.
At the end of the day, if you don't want to run a bash, you prefer to walk the tough sections, or are good enough to never need one, then you don't have to run one. It sure would be nice to have the option for those of us who do want or need one. Since I know my abilities and current limitations, I wouldn't get a bike for technical climbing that didn't have one.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/IHsunday.jpg
What Yeti did (is instead of using two linkages) they put one rotation point on a vertical rail. You could compare this to an extreeeeemm long lower linkage (infitity long, I think there is the name coming from).
This tiny change has big effects.
its just that I cant commit anymore... with the rate standards are changing/have changed, I have absolutely no confidence that i'll still be able to get parts in 5 years time.. and considering how long it would take to afford this bike (or even a bike worth 3k) it needs to last me 10 years+
so Im forced to stick with my 26" hardtail and 26" dh bike and I can live with that
You congrats on your bike too.
@tacklingdummy: This isn't a 900 gram full susser in the article, is it? A hardtail frame the same weight as this full suspension frame can be built just as strong. But I didn't mean to bring strength to the discussion as this wasn't what your initial comment was about. Actually I didn't argue with your comment at all. I just merely meant to say that the steering geometry and low top tube (either with dropper or just with the saddle set low) is going to allow for more technically demanding riding. Geometry determines most, suspension travel comes after that. I just think it is odd that even though we've come to accept a hardtail can be ridden hard, there is this perception that 100mm travel full suspension bikes are very delicate machines. Marathon racers and WC XC racers aren't particularly easy on their gear. And no bike manufacturer wants to see their bike fail when ridden on top level. So no I wouldn't say these XC full suspension bikes are supposed to accept more than a 2.5kg steel hardtail frame, I do think you can do more on then than on a generic 2kg aluminium XC frame.
@ceecee: Yeah, we could argue about that one 'till the cows come home. There are two ways to look at that. If you think casing that much is part of it then yes you're going to need the rear suspension. The other approach would be to step back and practice easier jumps until you're not casing that much anymore. Now in the context of this article, I doubt this bike is built to endure consistent casing that, when ridden on a hardtail, would lead to sore knees and feet.
-Oh hell yeah! Why not?
"Well it looks like an xc bike?"
-Only while climbing
(1 hour later)
"Hey how the hell are you done already you did the long lap and I did the short? !"
-Less is more...
""Huh what?"
-Nevermind. I'll see you next time!
I'm pretty much done with gravity racing which includes enduros, ride more flattish stuff, and have a good time doing it. If BC natives say it performs going downhill in fkn Squamish, I would imagine it's going to be completely capable for most terrain near me.
Is it to much to ask for a geometry table that reads with legible resolution in your/pinkbikes releases.
Also you are being served a cited for libel, regarding the “90 degree head angle” hot air.
No one ever made 90* head angle, not only is it useless and dramatic, its misguiding misinformation, like fox news.
71* is probably the steepest HA on any mtb since the end lf elastomeric spring/damper. So saying 90 when honesty would suggest 71 in your comparison to 67.8 is intentionally misleading.
Theres enough bullshit in the world without yor help.
Let's try this, instead:
Hyperbole -- hy.per.bol.e The use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. Uses extreme exaggeration to make a point or show emphasis.
Also, 90° is only 19° steeper than 71° and that's, like, barely different at all. You might never even notice a 19° difference in your head angle!