Push's New ElevenSix Coil Shock Has Hydraulic Bottom Out Control

Mar 12, 2020
by Mike Kazimer  
Push ElevenSix


Push first unveiled their ElevenSix coil shock back in 2015, and in the years since it's become a common sight on all sorts of high-end builds. For 2020, the shock has received a significant update, including the addition of a hydaulic bottom out control feature, revised valving, and spherical eyelet bearings.

There's also a new pint-sized version, the ElevenSix Micro, which was designed specifically for the Evil Following and its trunnion mount, 165 x 45mm shock dimensions.

Along with all the updates, the features that put the ElevenSix on the map in the first place remain, including the two separate compression circuits that can be selected with the flip of a lever, each with their own externally adjustable high- and low-speed compression adjustments. There are 25 clicks of high- and low-speed compression adjustment for each circuit, along with 18 clicks of low speed rebound adjustment.
ElevenSix Details
• Independent hydraulic bottom out piston
• Dual Overhead Compression Valve system with increased range
• Motorsport grade spherical bearing eyelet mounts
• Metric sizes only
• Available in standard and trunnion mount
• Manufactured and assembled in Colorado
• MSRP: $1200 USD
• pushindustries.com

As always, the ElevenSix is still designed, manufactured, and assembled in Colorado. Each shock is tuned specifically for the bike it will be installed on – Push has a constantly growing list of compatible bikes. Want to move a Push shock from one bike model to another? Push offers a reconfiguration service where they'll re-tune the shock and adjust the length and stroke to make that possible.

Push ElevenSix

Better Bottom Out Control

Coil shocks have a well deserved reputation for delivering enhanced small bump sensitivity and traction compared to air shocks, but they're typically not able to offer as much end-stroke progression due to the linear nature of a coil spring. That's not as big of a deal on bikes with a more progressive leverage curve, but on more linear bikes that can mean running a higher spring rate is necessary to avoid harsh bottom outs.

To help prevent that, Push has added a hydraulic bottom out control to the ElevenSix that comes into play during the last 15% of the shock's stroke. A secondary piston passes through a smaller tube, which increases the hydraulic pressure and creates a more progressive end stroke. Push aren't the first company to go this route - EXT's Storia shock comes to mind - but it's a welcome feature that should increase the number of bikes able to use an ElevenSix. In addition, the ElevenSix's open cell rod bumpers are designed to add another layer of bottom out prevention. The bottom part of the bumper sits in a cup, which helps it keeps its shape and provide support during big impacts, rather than getting completely flattened like a pancake.

Push ElevenSix
The port shape has been updated for more consistent oil flow.
Push ElevenSix
The ElevenSix uses an internal floating piston design and a large oil reservoir. The pressure in the reservoir is set at 90psi.


Refined Piston Design

Push even revised the ElevenSix's damping piston shape, altering the compression and rebound ports to allow for a smoother flow of oil, and more consistency during fast, repeated impacts. The progressive compression and rebound valve stacks were tweaked as well, with the goal of delivering less damping on small and high frequency bumps, and more damping during big imacts and g-outs.


Push ElevenSix


Spherical Bearings

Shock eyelet bearings have become more common over the last few years, part of the ongoing battle against friction that can decrease a shock's sensitivity. Push came up with their own spherical bearing design that's said to help reduce rotational friction from linkages and the shaft binding friction that can occur when a shock flexes, especially under side loads.


Push ElevenSix
The ElevenSix Micro is designed for the 120mm Evil Following.


E-Bike and Yoke-Mount Specific Shocks

Push have added a new Melonite QPQ steel shaft as an option in order to allow the shock to handle the higher shaft loads that can accompany yoke-mounted shock designs. What's Melonite QPQ? It's a case hardening process that's intended to increase wear and corrosion resistance, along with increasing the fatigue strength. If you want to add an obscure acronym to your repertoire, QPQ stands for Quench-Polish-Quench. The ElevenSix HD model uses the Melonite steel shaft, and it will also be used on Push's new e-MTB specific models.

Posted In:
Reviews and Tech First Looks Shocks Push Push Elevensix


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280 Comments
  • 59 3
 Please tell me you have it ready for the new wreckoning that’s about to drop.
  • 14 0
 I'm sure they do given their close relationship with Evil!
  • 9 4
 they do
  • 3 3
 The list of frames they have tunes ready for is on their site. Currently the wreckoning is not listed.
  • 11 2
 Doesn't this support the argument that its a new Following we're about to see tomorrow? And confirms it'll have 120mm rear suspension travel?
They wouldn't likely develop a shock specifically for an Evil Following that is currently sold out.
  • 4 1
 @ColdwaterCuda: Y'all are gonna hate the new Evils. Sort of like them but also hate them. That's the new standard response, cough!
  • 5 1
 Probably for evils new bike, the virus.
  • 4 0
 @slimjimihendrix: To bad they went 157 on the rear.
  • 4 5
 @jrocksdh: Nahh... you mean the "Sickness!"

Winning the internet today with this one. I'm sure of it!
  • 61 22
 The EXT Storia V3 has had bottomed out control, non propriety coil, weighs about 100 grams less and about $300 cheaper. Push is just fiddling their finger in people's mouth at these point
  • 80 42
 The Honda Fit has 4 wheels, an engine, weighs 300 lbs less and is $300K cheaper. Ferrari is just fiddling their finger in people's mouth at this point
  • 20 22
 @iliketurtles37: yeah and a Ferrari does. 0-60 in 2.5 secs while a tesla roadster does it in 2.1 secs and about 220k cheaper
  • 9 21
flag skerby (Mar 12, 2020 at 11:36) (Below Threshold)
 This one is custom tuned to your ride by a team of dedicated professionals.
  • 16 12
 This is also 2 shocks in one. That’s the main advantage to a Push shock. Does the EXT have that?
  • 13 0
 @iliketurtles37: Makes very much sense comparing a car with a shock.
  • 10 5
 @Jcolis1904: Ya, but Ferrari's sound better. Arguably, you could also play some formula engine sounds on your stereo in a Tesla while driving around.
  • 6 12
flag IllestT (Mar 12, 2020 at 12:12) (Below Threshold)
 @thejake: EXT has effectively 2 compression circuits, yes.
So does Fox DPS and DPX shocks. That's what "Dual Piston" (DP) means
  • 12 1
 @IllestT: But there aren't two valve systems that are tuned independently of each other. The Eleven six has two circuits each with their own LSC and HSC control.
  • 16 2
 @thejake: most people done need two shocks. Everyone I know with an 11.6 have an uphill and downhill tune. Sonthatbsecond circuit is only being used as a climb switch. Waste of money in that case, may as well get a lighter EXT and save the money
  • 64 2
 @IllestT: Pretty sure (DP) stands for Double Penetration
  • 2 1
 @swillett116: mmm yeah you can tune them independently, you just can't adjust them with dials independently

@anderd23: it's a fair point
  • 1 0
 @MattInNZ: totally agree
  • 4 5
 @IllestT: ha, you actually can't tune one circuit without affecting the other either
  • 5 3
 @swillett116: err yeah you can, the 2 compression circuits are entirely separate, engaged with a switch lever. They are completely independent
  • 6 0
 @thejake: the less weight is more benefit that the two circuits imo but the storia has a climb switch that if you forget has a "blowoff valve" best I could come up with that will let the shock take a big hit in climb mode like it was in open mode
  • 11 2
 @yabbaDABdo: if you're worried about the weight difference between one coil shock and another coil shock, you're probably reading the wrong website
  • 16 3
 As someone who has anecdotal experience riding an EXT Storia V3 for the last 9 months and a Push eleven-six for 36 months before that... I prefer the Push (by a very small margin). Mostly because I feel like their custom valving was better based on my inputs & frame kinematics. Also, the push shock took two days to arrive and 5 days for service (CO to GA) and their email & phone support has been phenomenal & informative. The EXT took 5 weeks to arrive and I'll be sending to CA for service soon and phone support was not a clear during my first few inquiries (language barrier maybe).

Both are incredible shocks. Custom valving on a low-stiction coil shock built for your frame/weigth/riding style is a huge improvement over what is offered from most of the big brands. Not always true, as there are some frames that get along well with coil shocks from the big companies, but this is not the norm. There are just too many variables to make a shock with useable adjustments to fit all frame kinematics/weights/styles even if you get the correct spring rate.

In summary, If you have the $.. just do it!
  • 4 0
 @MattInNZ: calling them uphill and downhill modes is one thing, but being able to tune them Independently means in practise they are often quite different to the arbitrarily set “climb” mode you get on most shocks with a compression switch. That makes the climb modeled tuneable and depending on how you ride or where you live that’s a good thing.

It also means you can run a really good trail mode so you don’t need a climb mode on many bikes that pedal well, and still have a full blown DH mode that is completely different. That’s how I run mine and it’s made the bike vastly better.
  • 8 0
 @DMoneyBike: you don't have to send it to CA. The Suspension Syndicate in Salt lake is an official EXT service center.
  • 9 13
flag G1EXTStoria (Mar 12, 2020 at 14:31) (Below Threshold)
 @DMoneyBike: There is an ongoing discussion about what is best EXT or Push? Just want to refer to the EXT Storia V3 test and the comments there. Some who had ridden both, was liking the EXT better because of the way the shock feels. Push mutes the feel against the ground and there is less feedback from the terrain. Some riders like that, other likes to feel more from ground to adjust their speed accordingly.

When it comes to the new Push, it is obvious what they have been copying. The HBC feature invented by EXT. If you take the EXT Storia V3 from the Nicolai G1/Geometron G1 it is also having spherical bearings. Still Push do not have the negative spring/top out spring though.

When it comes to delivery time, I will find it strange to wait for 5 weeks before receiving a shock. US customer should be receiving almost as fast as European customer. I ordered one Storia V3 for my Sentinel last year and it took 1 week. My 3 friends waited from 1 to 1,5 weeks.

For the 300 USD less for the EXT, I would spend it for a cartridge update from Avalanche Racing. Or just save the money until the EXT Era fork reach the market.
  • 9 7
 @G1EXTStoria: copying?!? hahahahahaha no. EXT did not invent the concept of hydraulic bottom out! Push also is not claiming to have invented it, just engineered their own take on it! Also, not all spherical bearings are created equally. I've fondled the EXT balls and they're nice but, not as nice (or as big!) as Push's balls!
  • 3 7
flag no1000 (Mar 12, 2020 at 16:02) (Below Threshold)
 but EXT's break into pieces. Wink
  • 2 1
 double tapped.
  • 5 0
 @MattInNZ: agreed that is a waste of money. I have mine set up for “flow” and “DH”. I use both modes frequently and not just for climbing. It is absolutely different than a climb switch with a blow off. And if you think a firmer compression tune that is set up for a different type of riding is a waste this isn’t the shock for you.
  • 5 2
 @iliketurtles37: The EXT is custom tuned to each bike and rider preference. No difference than Push. I have owned both.
  • 1 2
 @NoriDori: thats cause you're simple AF and cant comprehend what he is saying...
  • 9 1
 @Jcolis1904: Yeah, but with a Ferrari, you're taking home a pornstar... With a Tesla you're taking home a vegan

Each to his own I suppose
  • 4 0
 @DMoneyBike: suspension syndicate in SLC has been incredible to deal with as far as EXT is concerned. Thanks for the honest comparison!
  • 1 0
 @Spark24: comment of the day
  • 2 1
 @Jcolis1904: Until Tesla hits the roads and shows it can do all of the claimed numbers is irrelevant what anybody says about it.
  • 5 8
 @swillett116: Yes EXT invented the HBC. EXT has decades of experience with suspension and has gone a long way with supplying Formula 1 racing, WRC cars and so on. As far as I know Push has not the same background. Correct me if I have not heard wrong, Push started with modifying Van shocks, with more or less success? EXT is made with sophisticated materials like titanium to keep weight low and is developed from ground up.

Do not misunderstand, I am pretty sure Push are great shocks, but I do not see they are doing something radical that can be so highly overrated price wise.

Another thing that brings hype to my mind, is that when their previous shock, the 11-6, it was their #1 product and state of the world? Now that model sits in the shadow from the new model? Yes I know EXT have had several models, V1, V2 and now V3, but all of them shares the same features from the beginning.
  • 5 0
 @G1EXTStoria: can we get comments from @G1Push ?
  • 2 0
 Damn, shots fired in this thread.
  • 4 0
 All I can say is that I love mine. I got my “old” push shock a month ago when they were on “sale”. So good, I didn’t have to twist a knob as it came set up spot on. Really happy with it, especially for $800 on sale. Plus I can put it on my next bike and the one after that.
  • 2 1
 @G1EXTStoria: Have you ridden both for your own direct comparison, or are you just living vicariously through the reviews that make you feel good inside?

I think maybe you should do some research on the background of PUSH before you make a statement that even you are unsure of. I see no point in trying to belittle a company based off of you personally not knowing what they have been involved in before the 11.6. Based on reviews of the 11.6 I think it’s safe to say they know what they are doing if that is what you were attempting to get at.

The article outlines some key points to the new 11.6 and you could reference the press release from 5 years ago when the shock first came out. Plenty of tech transferred over and the new generation looks to have several upgrades over the existing design to make it that much better. No need to list everything here when everyone can easily just go look up what the differences are.
  • 5 2
 @G1EXTStoria: the previous gen does not sit in any shadows, it is still an outstanding product. Sorry that those three model years of EXT didn't have any revolutionary changes big enough to really set them apart!
  • 3 0
 @iliketurtles37: Yes but the push shock has hydaulic bottom out control, spherical eyelet bearings and costs $16000 less than the Honda Fit. I don't know where Honda puts their finger.
  • 1 3
 @anderd23: I clearly believe Push make awesome products. But I do have the right to put out a question if it is some kind of hype going on? How much did the previous 11-6 cost? Compared to an Avalanche treated Marzocchi shock is twice the price? You get two shocks in one, because of the dual valve??? Just asking......??
  • 6 1
 @G1EXTStoria: The previous 11.6 cost $1200, same as this model. Yes it costs more than a modified Marzocchi, and it also offers several more features and is completely manufactured in the US.

Yes the dual valve, which is only available on the 11.6, gives you complete control over two completely independent circuits. With this feature you can set up your "DH" setting exactly how you like, and unlike a predetermined "climb" switch you can control exactly how your other valve works. If you climb a smooth fire road exclusively and only need the firmest mode possible you can have that. Or if you ride technical single track climbs or want to optimize the other mode for general trail riding you can do that as well. Some people might not care either way, but a ton of people would like to optimize their climb setting towards their type of riding, and no other shock gives you that level of adjustability in that mode.

The Storia is definitely lighter, but that is coming from the super lightweight spring that has a finite cycle life. The HyperCo spring offered with the 11.6 was designed to be as lightweight as possible while still keeping its rate for years and years. 100-200 grams for not having to purchase a new spring when it loses its rate each season seems like a fine trade off to me.

If you want to inform yourself more on PUSH here are a couple fun articles for you.

www.pinkbike.com/news/inside-push-industries-2017.html
www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-push-industrys-elevensix-shock.html
www.fanatikbike.com/blogs/engage/who-is-push-industries-the-elevensix
  • 2 4
 @anderd23: EXT springs were also designed to last for "years and years" or even a lifetime, this isn´t fox sls after all...
  • 4 0
 @Mondbiker: Please see link below. 500,000 cycles stated right on their website.

www.extremeshox.com/product/ext-super-alloy-spring

Might sound like a lot but think about how many times your suspension cycles on a single ride.

Cheers
  • 2 2
 @anderd23: Yes I see that Push started by Darren in 2003 and they started manufacturing shocks in 2013. EXT started in 1986. Depending on experience based on inventions and podium results with EXT equipped vehicles, including 4 and 2 wheels, you will know where I want to state.

For the price of the EXT including 2 coil you will have plenty of dollars to buy new springs if that should be an issue.
An Avalanche tuned Marzocchi Bomber C3 will cost 550USD that is under the half price of a Push.
  • 2 1
 The ETX is actually cheaper than the 116 by more than $300. It ships with two springs, which is a VERY good idea for a coil shock or fork, and Push industry hypercoils are $125 a pop!
  • 4 0
 @G1EXTStoria: Yea and Ohlins has been around since 76, and Fox has been around since 74, so according to that mentality there is no chance that EXT's technology could be up to or exceed their level of experience either. Would you say that is also true or that your statement is again misleading.

I was not comparing anything to price when talking about the springs, just wanted to state the main reason why the EXT is as light as it is, so that everyone on here has some factual context.

That tuned Bomber is also less than the EXT so I don't understand where you are trying to go with that statement.

@duzzi Nothing wrong with 2 springs at all. PUSH did just lower the price of the springs to $95 so that should help if someone wants to try the next spring up or down.
  • 2 4
 @anderd23: Thought we were talking about comparing similar products here? I believe Push and EXT are among the best out there. Will not consider Ohlins or Fox in that league. You chose Push, other chose EXT. I bring the Avalanche tuned Bomber on the table, since I am sure it performs and feels almost similar to the Push 11-6, without the Dual Valve.
  • 4 0
 @thejake: I completely agree. I have my set up for trail mode and full DH and used both frequently. My 2018 nomad became such a better climbing bike, and an even more exceptional DH. Push customer service is phenomenal and the schock Is build for you not of the mill type of product. I consideres the EXT before I decided on PUSH, the deciding factor was the customer service and relatively fast turn over of PUSH. At the time EXT didn’t have US service centers. Both schocks are fantastic, is a matter of what you value and usage.
  • 2 0
 @anderd23: I have better link for you www.extremeshox.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/EXT-SPRING-2017.pdf To quote, "our spring reach life duration of 500000 cycles without losing any propriety".And "EXT springs last a lifetime".
  • 2 0
 You can run a non proprietary coil on an 11/6 too, I'm running an Ohlins spring on mine, inner diameter is the same on Ohlins as the Hypercoil, just because PUSH doesn't recommend it doesn't mean you can't. In fact due to the relatively slim damper body of the 11/6 an Ohlins spring works better on it than it does on Ohlins own shock as it's able to compress without rubbing the damper body and making it look like shite after a few months like Ohlins end up. So you are wrong on that point. Yea the EXT is nice aswell and a negligible amount lighter, also it doesn't have two seperate circuits, doesn't look as hood as thr 11/6 and has been tuned soley based on computer simulation rather than actual field testing PUSH does additionally. Both are great shocks and each has it's own little perks over the other.
  • 1 1
 @Danzzz88: push is literally just a drop menu shock that doesn't support every bike. EXT is tuned for every bike every time. But ok computer simulation
  • 1 0
 @Jcolis1904: you're right, and I didn't like the overly damped tune on my 11/6 it came with or the spring rate... I dunno where that ehole magic carpet ride and the 11/6 is like nothing else which I read in forums and articles came from because it isn't true. However I have since reduced spring rate by 40lbs and fully opened the damping and it is greatly improved for my taste. What I will say about the PUSH though is it controls the rebound to compression transition very well, it is extremely well made and when you do what I did and soften it up a lot to make it great on the downhills the second circuit finally becomes very useful as you cam firm things up a lit at the push if a lever without it being a full blown lockout, so for example I can have it set to dh for bikepark and gnar then firm it up for road or flow but still have enough give to absorb small chatter and the ocassii al bump/kerb ect I my hit. It is a good shock if you play around with it and it is reliable and the second circuit is useful but don't expect it feel like a hover craft anf make other coild feel like an air shock in comparison because in terms of pure comfort and bump absorption any coil will get the job done, it's all a matter of spring weivht and how much damping you run...forget any hocus pocus wizardry about special ports, pistons, tuned for your bike ect it's all bollocks..just play with the knobs and coils and you can get similar or the same feeling on almost any coil shock.
  • 41 14
 Copying the latest EXT Storia?
  • 7 2
 Or the old vector
  • 26 5
 This is not new tech lol, not sh*tting on the shock or anything. HBO has been available in shock absorbers since before MTB had suspension.
  • 2 1
 And previous Gen as well.. HBC
  • 39 1
 @skerby: I don't recall Push claiming anywhere this is 'new tech'. This is just the first time they have it on their shocks. It isn't 'copying' anymore than car manufacturers adding disc brakes over drum brakes once they realized they are better. Was/were a few companies quicker to adopt? Sure, but it's not like it's a proprietary concept.

In fact, the article itself actually acknowledges it: " Push aren't the first company to go this route - EXT's Storia shock comes to mind - but it's a welcome feature that ...." so there is that.
  • 4 0
 @bman33: I was just responding to DHhacks comment. I guess it still doesn't make sense. I meant that this is not a copy of EXT because that tech existed before EXT.
  • 8 1
 @skerby: EXT was first company in history to use hydraulic bumpstops in rally cars.
  • 1 0
 @kanasasa: what has vector in common with this?
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: is that true? Interesting.
  • 3 1
 @Mondbiker: That was Öhlins, actually.
  • 1 0
 @IllestT: yep, check the link www.extremeshox.com/history-2
  • 1 0
 @Broth-Ratchurch: nope.
  • 1 0
 @Mondbiker: haha no that means they first introduced HBO in 1984. Not they were the first to do it
  • 2 0
 @IllestT: www.extremeshox.com/product/ext-r5-dampers read description of these shocks, it´s possible someone else was using different solution, some Group B rally cars were running 2 shock per corner so they could have 2 different damping characteristics, but that is not possible with WRC regulations. Fit that bit of tech into single damper body is much harder task though and maybe even cooler for me lol.
  • 1 1
 first thing I thought as well.
  • 2 1
 You're right; this is old tech. What the people really need is something new, like a mosquito shaft that is repelled from bottom-out by DEET fluid.
  • 2 0
 EXT HBC Pioneer on Bottom Out Control!
  • 2 0
 I might pay just to go someplace and stare at this thing in a glass case with accentuated lighting and matte background & soft music accompaniment in the background over a glass of Merlot...
  • 1 0
 I’m curious, has anyone ridden the EXT Storia? What would servicing that shock be like? Would it be expensive to send back to Italy? It looks amazing, but that’s my hesitation m.
  • 1 0
 @Yetimike2019: service center was in CA, now UT. I wouldn’t hesitate because of that.
  • 2 0
 @Yetimike2019: you can also find the service manual from EXT websites. As easy as öhlins but no nitrogen needed
  • 2 1
 @Yetimike2019: I've ridden Storia and 11-6. Brennan Autosports does the tuning and service. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another Storia. Happy to discuss via PM
  • 1 0
 @downcountry: Nice. I’m doing some homework just to make sure what I’m getting in to. But that Storia looks incredible. I have had bad luck with ohlins, and cane creek for that matter because they are difficult to service and often take weeks at a time to get back once you send them in.
  • 1 0
 @Cura: I have not had a single problem with ohlins coil shock, but I had a nightmare of a time with their first air shock. I kept blowing seals, and doing services, finally sent the shock in to be rebuilt and it to 8 weeks. I would imagine the Storia being pretty low maintenance in general, but if there is good support if something goes wrong that’s all I need to know. Cane creek was another nightmare. Nice guys, but most shops don’t service their stuff and they don’t have great support.
  • 1 0
 @Yetimike2019: Strut mount application?
  • 1 0
 @downcountry: yep
  • 1 0
 @Yetimike2019: Service centres all over the world. i live in Australia and i have just sent mine off for a service in Australia. Definitely don't hesitate because of service issues. Amazing shock ! have owned fox dhx2 and it shits all over that. haven't owner a push but imagine its very similar
  • 7 0
 I had spherical bearings in my first ccdb, people would freak out when you could twist the entire shock a couple of degrees and try to tell you it was broken. And like they said in the article would have a lot of side loading especially now you have trunnion mounts making everything even stiffer
  • 1 0
 There are some bikes that would not sit well with being able to twist the shock, like those with shocks "in" the frame near the BB. I would imagine the reservoir may hit something.
  • 1 0
 fortunately even the trunnion Elevensix still has an eyelet bearing at the shaft end to help with this!
  • 6 0
 Always wondered why shocks seemed to move away from hydraulic bottom out/ ramp up control a few years back.
If there are any suspension shops out there that care to help me out - what would be more desirable from your point of view:
A more linear frame rate vs progressively tuned shock
A more progressive frame rate vs linearly tuned shock
Or a sensible (cop out answer) mix of the two?
I guess my question is really, if a customer walks in and says “hey can you tune this shock up for me” are you pleased to hear their bike is linear or progressive?
  • 3 0
 Thats what the whole cannondale dual shock design was about- apparently a linear frame rate coupled with a progressive spring rate (coil or air) seems to be the Golden Tune.

What the industry needs is someone who could make better progressive coil springs, that have more progressively and a smoother curve. From what I've heard current MTB progressive coils have an almost dual spring rate, without a smooth transition.
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez: yep I hear ya. From my own pov as a rider I want as little progression as possible without smashing into the bump stop too often. I guess that’s what we all want? As a rider that likes jumps a lot I tend to just increase the spring rate until it feels good but have owned frames that love to buck on lips when you push right into the end stroke and it sucks.
My own feeling is a more linear frame (within reason...straighter chart with less curve but possibly still a falling rate) and a well tuned shock is the dream but I’d love some more insight from tuners and other riders alike..
  • 10 0
 my opinion (working in R+D for a large motorcycle suspension company for several years):
the best for the rider: what ever works best for him. that can be eithor or a mix of both. since every rider feels different and demands different things from their suspension.
since you need to tune something to the riders liking the more you can adjust the more work it will be, but also the closer it can be to perfection.
the easiest to tune:
linear frame rate + adjustable progressive spring (air) + linear tune
the only reason this product exists is to get a certain progressivity into a system which has a linear spring and frame rate.
if you are interested in more details research the KTM PDS system. its the exact same technology
  • 1 0
 @ProperPushIrons: Linear frame with a falling rate. I think the OG Ripmo is pretty close to that. Shredders complain that it bottoms out to easily and coils don't work well with it due to the falling progressiveness at the end of the curve. Ripmo V2 and AF changed that.
  • 4 2
 @Svinyard: you can't have a linear frame with a falling rate though...
  • 2 0
 A "progressive" frame design can have so much variables that's tough to answer. If progression is wanted a straight graph would be desirable I think, but most bikes have some form of curve.
Extremely progressive frames (YT) are very difficult to tune because the forces at the beginning and ending stroke are very different.
  • 2 1
 @ProperPushIrons: if you want as little progression as possible without bottom outs you just need more travel.
  • 3 0
 I personally like working with a linear to slightly possessive linkage, but you can really tune around anything and make it work. Shocks these days are excellent and incredibly versatile in what they can be made to do. I try to tune more based on what the rider is feeling rather than from a formula. From a riding standpoint, I like my rear suspension softer with more compression to control the stroke, rather than relying on the solely on the spring to do the work.
  • 4 1
 Linear frame always. Thats been the key in motorcycles for traction and tuning, as most every dirt bike and sport bike has the linkage to set up the shock to behave in a linear matter so that damping adjustments can be made accurately. If I want more progressivity, I can run an air shock or some bottom out mechanism.
  • 3 3
 @phops: lol yeah no....
those are all rising rate linkages.
  • 3 2
 You want a progressive frame, that allows the wheel rate to increase, as would a linear frame with progressive spring. BUT the difference is that the damping also increases proportionally with the spring this is most important with the rebound. With the compression im not convinced it matters one way or another and i think its sort of what cannondale was experimenting with. Every major motorcycle brand implements a rising rate linkage on their performance bikes road and dirt except KTM with their stupid PDS system that doesn't really work right and is being phased out on their real race bikes. for the exact reason i described.
  • 5 1
 There's a time and place for both. What it comes down to is balancing bottom out resistance and small bump sensitivity. The energy in a given impact is equal to the energy absorbed by the spring (0.5*k*(x^2)) plus the energy absorbed by damping. For everyone there's a certain amount of maximum damping that's tolerable since past a certain point the bike will no longer respond well to high frequency impacts. So lets assume the shock is set to deliver that amount of damping regardless of linkage. Now, if we assume that shock stroke can't be changed, the only variable that can improve bottom out resistance is the spring rate (k). If you increase your spring rate with a more linear frame you end up decreasing the amount of sag. This makes the rear not track as well. The solution to this is a progressive leverage curve. This allows you to increase bottom out resistance by running a stiffer spring without harming the bike's small bump sensitivity or ability to track through the rough. This is what Transition has done with their new Scout. One thing that is very important is to avoid any rapid changes in leverage curve and keep it within a reasonable amount of course. This is what leads to bikes (like some YT models) feeling spiky.
  • 1 0
 @CascadeComponents: which yt bikes are you talking about? How's the Jeffsy 2019+? Are there solutions to these problems if so?
  • 2 0
 @gnarcissistictendency: they decreased the progression in newer models. A massive amount of progression essentially just makes the first cm of travel pretty useless for everything bigger than a pebble.
  • 3 0
 @englertracing: apples to oranges a bit. PDS has better ground clearance than linkage, which is exactly why KTM produced the same model bikes with both for a while and why some enduro riders favor it
  • 1 0
 @CascadeComponents: I still say better air shocks and progressive coil springs are the future. Someone will find a way to economically manufacture progressive coils for the relatively short strokes of mountain bike shocks.
  • 3 1
 @hamncheez: progressive coils were discareded 40 years ago in mx man let the linkage dictate the progression
  • 1 1
 @HaggeredShins: trialsy types like it sure, but even they will tell you its kind of bad when you get moving fast. The husky design team seems to understand......
  • 1 0
 Excellent question dude!
  • 2 0
 @Xfighter: PDS doesn't work right if you need small bump compliance AND big hit performance. PDS has a linear leverage ratio and since MX bikes have always run coil shocks (except for Dungey's brief experimentation with an air shock) which are also linear, the spring rate then has to be set soft for chatter compliance or hard for big hit absorption.
There is room in the KTM lineup for a PDS trail bike on an air shock imo. Just like on a MTB, this combo works as the air shock provides the needed progression. Maybe on their electric bikes which are highly weight sensitive?
  • 1 0
 @englertracing: two stage coils are all over the place in offroad moto sports today, but linkages have been all but abandoned.
  • 1 0
 @TheSlayer99: you can have a lightly progressive rate with a falling rate though. Tomato tomato.
  • 2 0
 @Yetimike2019: but then it’s not linear, it’s lightly progressive.
  • 1 2
 @hamncheez: they never really ran proper linkages.... just some ghetto cantilever shit, their shocks are externally adjustable position sensative, so combined with a dual rate spring they actually act more like a linkage with a straight rate than some jank ass linear shock actuator with a progressive coil.

you have to take into account how difficult it would be to build a linkage that would survive a 130mph pounding on a 5500lb trophy truck, they use 1" shock shafts.....

Ive often contemplated, a "suzuki full floater" type linkage may be suitable for use on a tt or class 1 car if built properly.

In the end the linkage is the most elegant design, see road race bikes, from honda cbr to ducati gp bikes, they all have a rising rate linkage..... if they didnt need them they would love to save the weight....

tons of road race cars feature linkages, most geared to provide some progression they usually refer to them as inboard shocks as, on open wheel cars moving the shocks inboard also serves to get them out of the air stream

in rally, well rally got its dick cut off in 1986 or else youd see them on rally cars.....

why bring up street stuff?
well, if progression is desired even on smooth surfaces it should be terribly obvious how beneficial it is off road.

back to two wheelers,
the operator has much more influence on the chassis that a 4 wheeled vehicle, meaning they can shift their weight fore and aft, hopefully intentionally, but sometimes by being bucked, combine that with the massive weight shifts caused by a higher center of gravity to wheel base ratio and the need for good amount of progression is more apparent

next, have you ridden pds? not having the rebound damping matching the springs as it wouldn't with a progressive spring or would with a linkage make it feel like someone randomly rearranged your rebound shim stack just totally inconsistent rebound aka garbage


PPS
Fox and king offroad car shocks are actually kind of behind,
notice how they don't feature a base valve or didn't until recently even feature a lsc adjuster between the shock and reservoir.
got a rebound adjuster? NOPE
only some because can am forced foxes hand

Curnutt built internal bypass shocks for motorcycles 40 years ago where did that end up? on vintage bikes thats where..... on one of my vintage bikes actually......
  • 3 0
 @englertracing: @englertracing: I have a KTM with PDS and a Husky with Link....both suspensions have been modded by a top notch shop for tight woods riding here in the PNW. While I agree that the link does feel a bit better at speed, the PDS works a bit better for the slow speed stuff.

The biggest performance advantage in my mind is....maintenance. The PDS is so much easier to maintain and keep running smooth. It's also 10x easier to remove and get re-valved.....PDS = two screws, Link = remove rear wheel, break chain and take off rear swingarm. The mere fact you can get that PDS off and over to your suspension guy quickly is a HUGE perk....for the amateur racer.

Lots of top pros ride and win on PDS:

dirtbikemagazine.com/ktm-suspension-shootout-pds-vs-linkage
  • 2 0
 I feel like I just need to say that the whole world of suspension ‘terminology’ is broken. Rising rate and falling rate are the same thing depending whether you’re talking about the shock or the linkage. If anyone cares I personally think it makes more sense to say ‘falling rate’ as the leverage rate of the linkage reduces over the travel but this seems to differ depending who you talk to, pro and joe alike.
Also the definition of progression is used to refer to the same thing as a falling/ rising rate. I.e a falling leverage rate of the frame is referred to as ‘progressive’ and while it serves a purpose for explanations it is incorrect and you can indeed have a linear falling/ rising rate.
Hope that didn’t make sense, cus that’s kinda my point.
Thanks everyone above for your input, good to hear what people think about this stuff as it’s not something I’m dealing with day to day. I am learnt. Ta, happy Friday.
  • 2 0
 I almost totally forgot the whole regressive, digressive thing. Once again they mean two different things and yet often used to refer to the same thing which may also in fact be a linear, rising and/ or falling rate.
Be safe out there peeps
  • 1 0
 @ProperPushIrons:
Wheel rate is whats important
Rising rate refers to the wheel rate
  • 1 1
 @RadBartTaylor:
I agree its easier to remove
linkages arent so bad unless your always bashing them and denting the

the fact that your ktm works better at low speed is probably not due to a benefit of the pds but most likely some aspect of setup.

argument,
even all the Effing trials bikes have linkages dude.
cough grahm jarvis is on the linked bike cough
  • 3 0
 @englertracing: I have a new Montesa 4rt and it does have a link and the suspension is absolute garbage Smile For trials bikes, I think it's more of a packaging issue....they don't have room for a PDS type system.

At the end of the day, the guys ride what they ride, do you think PDS would hold Jarvis back? Of course not..

My point is just that PDS indirectly benefits most am riders since they are more likely to get it tuned, can do so more often and have minimal maintenance requirements....but I don't disagree that a link can feel better.
  • 1 0
 @SunsPSD: you are right. thats why KTM only uses PDS with a progressive spring on enduros where you need the ground clearence and low speed control from the compression. because they dont hit things as fast and as hard as the MX guys.
the MX guys ride very progressive links with hard springs to get the high speed control and bottom out resistance.
  • 2 0
 @englertracing:

Nope. The traditional design for linkages is to have dogbone links at the bottom with a 3 pivot knuckle tying the swingarm, shock, and dogbone links together. This results in a linear motion of the shock.

Progressivity is done with progressive springs.
  • 3 0
 @phops: where are you getting this shit?
look at the difference in length between the pull rod length vs the swing arm pivot and the knuckle mount, that difference causes the kuckle to lag behind swing arm travel initially and kick up at the end. If it were designed to be linear it would need equal length arms and do f*ck all....
thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/839177-are-linkages-linear
looks like most mxers are 170%-200% Progressive
  • 1 0
 @englertracing:

End to end, there is going to be always some non-linearity, due to rotational motion, especially for higher travel amounts, but its not as significant of a ramp up percentage wise as it is in bicycles, and within the normal riding region, its sufficiently linear.

Here is some more info www.promecha.com.au/leverage_linkages.htm.
  • 1 0
 @phops:
Your link is about road racers and still supports my position....
@.@
170-200% progressive like a crf or kxf is pretty progressive, ceartainly progressive enough to be called progressive
  • 9 2
 How about frame manufacturers just do away with yoke mounted shocks? Shock makers have to engineer a solution around a frame designers lazy engineering. Pivot did away with yokes, it time Specialized and Ibis do the same.
  • 8 0
 All this nerding out over a shock is getting some people pretty wound up.
  • 7 1
 Like a Bugatti, I can’t afford one but it sure would be fun to take it for a spin.
  • 2 0
 more like ford's shelby tuning garage
  • 3 0
 "Want to move a Push shock from one bike model to another? Push offers a reconfiguration service where they'll re-tune the shock and adjust the length and stroke to make that possible."

This is not actually a true statement. Both PUSH and mountain bike media should actually state the true situation which is
"Push offers a reconfiguration service if the bike you move to has an Eleven-six tune".

My Eleven-six Gen One ended up being the world's most expensive workshop paper weight for two years because they did not want to develop or estimate a tune for my 2018 Range when i moved from my Nomad Gen 3. I even offered to ship them the bike for testing/ fitting.

If you ride SCB, Transition or Evil you are pretty well set with PUSH as they are obviously fan-bois of each other, with other brands not so much interest or support in allowing you to use your $1200 shock with your new bike.
  • 6 7
 EXT will for sure suit a whole bunch of bike/frame models. It is also possible to almost reconfigure your Storia to any length. Of course it is not impossible technically to change to Trunnion from eyelet, but the price will.
  • 2 0
 @G1EXTStoria: EXT in the US offered to turn my 205x65 trunnion to a 230x65 eyelet for about $500 and change, but I ended up keeping my frame.
  • 3 1
 @G1EXTStoria: sad that a truthful, informative comment gets downvoted. Just makes the petulant downvoting PUSH fans look worse (certainly not the majority). And I have no issue with PUSH - they’re very nice! But sad to see the nail get hit on the head by @andrewbikeguide. I asked PUSH for fitment on a Geometron, they said no, and wouldn’t accept my new frame in order to develop a tune. A year later they changed their mind, but I was already happy with my Storia v2, which I got only a couple weeks after ordering from Brennan in CA.
  • 6 0
 Was hoping the revision was a cut in price by about 50%. Oh well...
  • 2 8
flag Jcolis1904 (Mar 12, 2020 at 10:10) (Below Threshold)
 They slashed their price to $780 last time. I wonder how much their overhead actually is or they just greedy.
  • 4 1
 @Jcolis1904: They we’re clearing stock to make room for these.
  • 1 0
 Dude I know, but to their credit they are sold out of shocks pretty frequently... People must be buying them.
  • 6 0
 Très Manitou of them
  • 1 3
 It's actually been around for a couple of decades!
  • 3 1
 Ok so wait, this new shock will be ebike compatible, but overall it's only available in metric sizes so many slightly older frames that are non metric will not be compatible?
  • 1 0
 @intensemack10. Just buy a brand new metric ebike to put on this shock manWink
  • 4 0
 1.2k$ Dear god.. Shamefully, I'd still buy it.
  • 4 0
 Curious if the Hydraulic Bottom Out is available as an upgrade for owners
  • 2 2
 Nope. I just talked to them and they said all of the new tech is proprietary to only the new version and can't be retrofitted to older versions. That sucks
  • 5 2
 @gnarcissistictendency: The previous generation is still supported 100% from a replacement parts and service perspective so that customers aren't left out in the cold!
  • 7 0
 @swillett116: now that's support I'd pay money for.
  • 4 0
 @gnarcissistictendency: welcome to the bike industry
  • 2 0
 Damn it looks like Evil gets a special one just for the new Following. Their site says Micro lightweight model is only for Following shipping end of March.
  • 5 1
 Ext can do a 165x45 storia for whatever bike you want that can fit it.
  • 1 0
 am I the only one who does not understand sh.t from these link and shock technical stuff? I am keen to understand how these are working, please suggest me the BEST pb article which will make me educate.
  • 12 0
 Just watch every episode of the “Tuesday Tune”, then when you get done watch them all over again.
  • 1 0
 @pacificnorthwet: LOL. Right?!
  • 5 1
 Already bought brand new ext for 500 cheaper and it weighs less.
  • 2 4
 the coil shock off a 24" Magna Gauntlet is cheaper and weighs less too! Not comparing the Storia to the Magna shock by any means, just pointing out that you can't really compare two products that do totally different things...
  • 6 1
 @swillett116: What does the 11-6 do that's completely different from the EXT Storia?
  • 3 0
 @swillett116: it is literally what everyone in the bike industry is directly comparing it to.
  • 3 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: I would reference @anderd23 's comment above... should clear things up for you
  • 4 1
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: has two tunes for stupid frames that pedal like shit, meanwhile the EXT has a nicer hsc circiut
  • 1 0
 How much different is it riding an uber highend coil on a 140- 155mm travel bike with one of these installed vs something like a DPX2? Curious as what the appeal is. They certainly look cool!
  • 4 5
 Awesome shock with a few nice extra touches. I've run the side stack on my ally nomad V4 and it's the absolute dogs bollocks. People want awesome performance but don't want to pay for it. I don't get that mentality. I run a DhX2 on my tr11 and it's definitely not as good. I'm a mechanic and rebuild suspension for a living. Haterz gonna Covid 19
  • 2 0
 I'm of the opinion that the DHX2 might be the most overrated shock on the market. Thoughts?
  • 1 0
 Avete inventato l'acqua calda , Bos e gia 10 anni che ha il bottom out sui loro ammortizzatori sia in compressione che ritorno
  • 2 0
 Not gonna lie, I would love to have one of those. Not sure I want to pay for it.
  • 3 0
 When are they making a standalone fork?
  • 2 0
 This is awesome tup This will definitely be my next shock on my next 29er bike
  • 4 3
 Fox dhx 5.0 and rc4 shocks have hydraulic bottom out. Funny how old tech is reintroduced like its groundbreaking every so often.
  • 4 0
 Just for a FYI, no they didn't, the bottom out control was done by reducing the air volume in the IFP not through a true hydraulic bottom out, the RC4 was the same. The early Fox 40's had hydraulic bottom out and it was adjustable internally.
  • 1 1
 Bomber 888's had HBO too. Not that it did much
  • 2 1
 Wow that switch is super stealth. I almost couldn't see it. Wink Such a sick shock. Not worth the money for a mere mortal rider such as myself...
  • 3 0
 I mean- its expensive but will be more noticeable than a 2000€ Carbon wheelset.
  • 3 0
 @NotNamed: THIS...is a good point. Plus that carbon wheelset (I ride one) does have some downside. I'm not sure there is much of a downside to this shock that is double the cost of an X2
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: Agreed on that point. You would notice this much more than a pair of carbon wheels. That's assuming your alloy wheels are good ones. My real point with this shock is that since I'm not a semi-pro or pro racer, I don't need to pay twice as much as my Fox just to squeeze out whatever performance gain there is. It's not that important at my level of riding.
  • 2 0
 @mybaben: but riding your bike with a baller coil makes every input that much rewarding.
  • 1 0
 Maybe the wrong place, but everytime i read about shocks i think about the "revolutionary" Nitro Shox - pretty much come to nothing...
  • 3 0
 I will stay with my EXT Storia V3! Love it Smile
  • 9 6
 EXTreme redesign
  • 1 0
 Fox had it in the podium rc3 moto shock for a while before discontinuing their dirt bike products
  • 2 0
 pulling out all my stocks for this bad boy!lol
  • 1 1
 nearly purchased a used push 11/6,£650 from the seller,and wait for it £400 to be set up again for my bike/riding style/weight etc.I passed on it.
  • 2 0
 Still no fitment for the Ransom, bummer.
  • 5 0
 EXT Storia Lok V3 is rad on the Ransom. Works amazingly
  • 2 0
 @Frontrange: And looks dope AF with it too! Really love that frame.
  • 1 0
 Progressive springs and HBO on coil shocks... is 2020 marking the end of an air-a? :-P
  • 5 0
 the Elevensix springs are linear, not progressive. It's the way the HBO works with the rod bumper alongside internal valving that makes it that way. Progressive springs themselves are still subpar from a performance perspective as there are extreme inconsistencies among spring rates. Due to the custom nature of the Elevensix, progressive springs are completely unnecessary.
  • 2 0
 @swillett116: Yup. I just noticed that a lot of brands are applying various things to make their coil shocks more progressive or adding bottom out. It was intended as a more general statement. Cheers!
  • 1 1
 @swillett116:

But EXT’s are not progressive springs...
  • 1 0
 @Frontrange: never said they were
  • 1 0
 @swillett116: Sorry confusing two posts.
  • 6 6
 everyone who no intention or the money to buy this, please hit the "back" button now and f*ck off... you negative little bitches!
  • 6 0
 I didn’t realize this article had a bouncer.
  • 4 0
 @PtDiddy: haha... sick of people complaining about every damn little thing!
  • 3 0
 @rzicc: I know how you feel. I like ebike articles. There is just a tad bit of bitching going on in those comments.

I just lost all credibility mentioning I like ebike articles. Crap
  • 3 2
 I ate Taco Bell last night. Now I understand the importance of bottom out control.
  • 2 1
 That thing is rad. I would put that on my XC bike.
  • 2 1
 soooooo will work on my firebird??
  • 4 1
 Pontiac?
  • 2 0
 @ReformedRoadie: yeah i need 4 of them!
  • 2 1
 Significant and needed upgrade for sure.
  • 1 0
 My guess is tomorrow, alot more push shicks in classifieds
  • 1 0
 Still not compatible with the V3 Bronny ????
  • 2 0
 Correct. Shock tunnel is just too small.
  • 7 5
 @swillett116: fist it... I'll see myself out.
  • 1 0
 @swillett116: shock tunnel is fine, piggyback is too big.
  • 2 0
 @Daxdagr8t: reservoir is completely out of the way it’s the spring OD.
  • 1 0
 @Daxdagr8t: Spring OD, clearance has nothing to do with the bridge
  • 3 6
 But does it weight less? Ran a Push Coil on my Yeti a year ago and swapped back for a weight savings. Granted it's not an incredible difference; still felt it after miles of climbing. Coil feeling at a air price/ weight; that will be a shocking upgrade.
  • 15 1
 You, I like you. Not afraid to admit the weight of a shock is holding you back.
  • 4 4
 Here is a pro tip: just get fitter. Its free.
  • 3 1
 @phops: i'd sooner ride an ebike than give up my sixer every night.
  • 1 0
 More brands por favor. *cough* Reeb.
  • 1 0
 Anybody want a lightly used 2019 11.6 for a SC Nomad?
  • 1 0
 Ugh Spherical bearings... Hope they're greasable. The rest looks great!
  • 3 0
 EVERYTHING is greasable!
  • 2 0
 since these are motorsport grade they are pretty damn near indestructible! been running them for testing since last summer without any extra attention and they're holding up just fine Wink
  • 1 0
 @swillett116: any idea if any of the other internal upgrades will become part of the previous 11-6 service upgrade?
  • 1 0
 @heinous: In time, a couple of smaller new parts will get phased into rebuilding the old shocks but you won't really see any performance gains from them. The way all of the new tech works together is what really sets this generation apart from the last!
  • 3 0
 @swillett116: I’m ok with the previous gen now being the second best shock on the market!
  • 1 0
 $600 for my eleven six evil offering.
  • 1 0
 and performs better.
  • 2 3
 Cool. But riding for the fun of it and not racing makes my bike just fine with its stock dhx2. Miles per smile, not miles per hour for me.
  • 4 1
 So dont buy one then. also, dont bitch about the price.
  • 4 0
 @rzicc: I don’t think he mentioned price at all. You are the only one that seems to be bitching at the moment.
  • 2 0
 have you ridden both? I went from dhx2 to ext and it made the dhx2 seem like hot garbage.
  • 2 1
 that's about what i originally paid for my entire bike lol
  • 1 0
 They should either call it TwelveZero or slash 40bucks from MSRP
  • 1 0
 Wish they could fit a trek
  • 2 1
 honestly surprised it's not $1500 now with the upgrades
  • 1 1
 Woah! The first DOHC shock in the world someone must be exhausted from thinking this
  • 1 1
 At the risk of getting flamed, that shock costs more than I've ever paid for an entire bike...
  • 1 0
 now make a micro version one that fits the hightower v2!
  • 1 0
 yep
  • 1 1
 Retails for eleven six ty.
  • 1 0
 $1200
  • 2 4
 As cool as this is .. buying new equipment for our bikes may be the least of our concerns in the coming year.
  • 1 0
 With this being said, it’s positive to see people wanting to drop 1200 on a shock..
  • 5 1
 Take a deep breath every morning and hold it for 10 seconds. If you have any trouble doing this, or have to cough you should probably get checked out.
  • 4 5
 Oh boy... @badbadleroybrown VS the EXT people again...
  • 4 7
 Shocking Technology!
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