Poll: Does Your Trail Bike Have a Weight Problem?
BTR Fabrications' Pinner: The Brits (who coined the phrase "winch and plummet") seem to be embracing steel-framed suspension bikes that set new records for acceptable weight. The Pinner comes in at 35.56 pounds (16.13 kg)
"Long, low and slack" may have become a metaphor for "overweight" as the influence of enduro and winch-and-plummet riders has pushed the heft of many trail bikes well beyond the once sacrosanct 30-pound barrier. After a decade of incredible improvement,
you'd be right to expect bikes would be lighter and stronger, but high-end trail bikes have since gained almost five pounds.
It's doubtful that the average rider has evolved into a much stronger beast who has no issue pedaling a porky bike uphill. Maybe the reason that trail bikes are fatter than ever is simply because the mountain bike is 40 years old, so a pot belly is acceptable. The most probable theory to explain the girth is that mountain biking may be evolving into a gravity-powered summer snow-sport and thrill seekers are happily trading pedaling performance for raw speed to maximize their experience.
It's doubtful that the average rider has evolved into a much stronger beast who has no issue pedaling a porky bike uphill. Maybe the reason that trail bikes are fatter than ever is simply because the mountain bike is 40 years old, so a pot belly is acceptable. The most probable theory to explain the girth is that mountain biking may be evolving into a gravity-powered summer snow-sport and thrill seekers are happily trading pedaling performance for raw speed to maximize their experience.
Raaw's Madonna aluminum-framed enduro racing bike hits the scales at 37 pounds (16.79kg) as reviewed - comparable to many downhill sleds.
A lightweight: The carbon version of Specialized's new Stumpjumper Evo weighs only 31 pounds. With inserts and DH tires, however, it would be closer to 33.
What is certain, though, is that bikes are more capable and descending skills have improved. Both have forced designers to build correspondingly stronger frames and components. Strength usually comes with a weight penalty, but there's more to the equation than a three kilogram frame. Double-thickness tire casings, 350-gram inserts and gravity-certified suspension components are go-to's for many trail riders.
Intense Sniper Elite: Trending on the flip side are gravity-inspired cross-country bikes with slack geometry, capable handling, and weights in the 23-pound range. "Downcountry" bikes, as some call them, strike a balance between XC racers like the Sniper, and dedicated enduro machines. They offer an alternative for those who don't want drag around the whole tool box for the six minutes they may need the speed wrench.
Arguably, some ride at speeds and intensities that justify those choices, but I'd wager that most riders who are huffing around on "enduro certified" trail bikes would be faster (and happier) without the flab. Today's poll asks (in a perfect world) what you think the maximum weight of an all-purpose trail bike intended for an aggressive rider should be.
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However, most of the weight is due to the increase in wheel size. a 26" tyre is much lighter than an equivilent 29" tyre.
In size L/XL weight should be around 14-15 kg to get a stable and reliable setup! With today's Suspension Layouts like VPP and steeper seat angles you can pedal some 15+ kg bikes better up the hill than some direct sales lightweight 13 kg bikes!
My Trail/Enduro 'do it all bike' weights 15.8 kg's with Super Gravity tires but it's XL and super long so lots of material surely weights even with Carbon handlebar and cranks.
Yes, it breaks more and doesn't track even close as well as a proper trail bike.
I still have more fun riding the pig, but she stays home on race day.
Bro I found you a sponsor get more bro
We've all fallen into the trap of assuming oldtech is a man!
If he is a man there really is nothing to brag about looking emaciated. That's for road bikers.
Taking a long bathroom break reduces weight for free.
Overall, the average rider on identical 30 lb trail bikes would benefit from the one with a much lighter weight wheel assembly (all unsprung parts included). They’re more responsive with handling and accelerate quickly, both of which are immediately noticeable from the first pedal stroke.
For women, a heavy enduro bike can equal a third of their body weight and among Italians can be above 20% easily.
Super light bikes aren't just more expensive, they're arguably less stable and more fragile.
33lbs seems to be roughly the sweet spot.
Modern bike's pedaling characteristics are also much better, so weight is slightly less of a burden
My full alu DH bike with 27.5 Magic Marries in Large is 15.9kg (Solid Strike EVO).
For me, a trail/enduro Bike around 13.5kg is light, around 14kg is normal and above 14kg it is heavy.
I also carry a tiny shock pump (Topeak Microshock), spare derailleur hanger, chain links, zip-ties, a knife, a disinfection spray and a small medkit
I’m a bit of a minimalist myself but it’s the guys who ride w/o a tube or pump or multi-tool and then want/need my help that affect my riding; not the dudes with a 12 lb pack even though they are doing a 1-hour loop.
First of all, not everyone is overweight, second, I usually see the lighter, fitter riders on lighter bikes, while the heavy gravity bros and shuttle boys ride the heavy bikes. And third, being fit and having a light bike is obviously better than being fit and riding a heavy bike.
I had to give up a 26" tube to a guy on a 29er (and yes, it can be done) who'd gone thru his only spare; I suppose that he actually expected tubeless w/ sealant would really work, which it did not.
The 26" state of the art Ti softtail I first rode almost 20 years ago weighed a bit over 24 lb. Same bike today, still my main ride, with different Fox fork, front disc only (if a V brake will skid your rear wheel, you don't need a rear disc), beefier Mavic wheels and the widest tires I can fit into the frame and fork, say 2.6", is now more than 28 lb. but I am small and have not had a tube flat in over a year running just 17.5 psi, regardless of terrain. The ride is far more comfortable and stable than the original was, to where I indefinitely keep postponing a Full suspension, because I want to keep my triple crank thank you, and can ride most everything I want to risk trying at 68. Rode the Poison Spider on it a few years back (sensibly walking the death zones), and I found it generally a POS. The lower loose rubble had no appeal, and a long FS enduro bike would have made the ride barely less disgusting. I may just stay on enjoyably smoother terrain and let you macho thrashers beat your fillings out on unaesthetic but also treacherous new era testpieces.
Re: weight - loss is instantaneous, when the result of purchasing a lighter bike or component. I have never known a single rider whose weight has fluctuated more than five pounds in one or two decades, while conditioning and fitness has. Trouble is, few have the time to invest in either major fitness gain, or weight loss, over time. Year to year, we all inevitably seem to ride about the same as ever.
But is it more fun to ride now? Hell yes.
The fewest of hobby riders are super trained athletes with below 8% body fat, and I’d rather lose 2-3kg of body weight than spend several hundreds or thousands to make my bike one or two pounds lighter. The only point where I see a big advantage in weight is wheels because it’s rotating mass, but otherwise I’d rather have a sturdy low maintenance do it all bike than a lightweight race machine where I always have to worry about shit breaking.
Because at the end of the day, if something breaks and I have to replace it, I can’t ride my bike in the meantime. And riding my bike is what it’s all about.
And yes- you wont notice 2kgs in Suspension/ frame.
If the bike is too heavy go work out and get stronger.
There's a clear divide between people who like to ride their mtbs up and down for a big part of the year and the summer-gravity people. There's a lot to dive into here: What other kinds of riders are there? Would the summer-gravity people be better served by a DH bike? An e-bike? What are the demographics, is there an age gap? Wealth gap?
Personally, the "downcountry" bikes interest me the most (except that the name is awful), I'm pretty sure one of those bikes would be perfect for everything that I want to do on a mtb.
As far as all the smooth flow at resorts, given some time hopefully they will add more natural/tech trails.
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I am pretty old school and come from an era that most bad decisions ended up meaning breaking something on your bike......so we just got smooooth.
For enduro race bikes I'd argue that you almost need more tyre protection than a dh bikeYou are riding almost dh courses,nearly as fast,almost blind,with less travel and you've got to make them last 30+ minutes of racing.
Exo is still single ply and I'd say is more suitable for trail (120-140mm) bikes.
Granted, mine isn't as heavy as Astons was, but it's not a light bike still.
My trail bike, depending on which I choose, is 26-29lbs. I have also raced local enduro's on these. On the flatter stuff, they are the better bike. It's nice to have a choice.
Only the fork is heavier on the DH- the frame itself most often only some grams.
We may get to a point someday where a fully capable trail/Enduro bike can weigh 20lb but until then it makes sense that capability/durability win over weight.
After this bike, I’m far less weight focused than I used to be, but I can see a 27-31lb 130-140mm 29er in my future for the long climby days.
As for climbing, the weight is pretty irrelevant compared to the geometry. The problem I had with shorter hardtails in the past was that on steep climbs, my kneepads would hit the bars (I stand up when I ride) so I had to lean back, causing the front wheel to lose grip and wander. The longer bike allows me to put my weight wherever I want it to be so now I can clear stuff easily which I was struggling with on my shorter hardtail. If the bike is heavier (or I'm carrying more water, tools, mud, whatever) I just need to pedal harder or I'll just climb slower. But if I can't get my body in the right position, I just can't get up these steep climbs.
When I started riding, most of my friends pedaled DH bikes because the XC ones kind of sucked.
*Get strength riding singlespeeds up a consistent hill.*
We all sessioned 36-40# rigs after taco-d wheels, too many pinch flats, and bent/cracked frames. Dh geometry doesn't climb well, which is part of reality. All our rides have climbs.
I rode plastic fantastic for 3-4 years, and that stuff is like a hard drug. Making you feel superhuman pedaling up climbs you always used to walk. I still dig the ride quality of carbon, but my tastes for trail dictate heavier parts. Absolutely loving CushCore! It feels like my suspension just got much better!?!
New carbon wheels, Surly Dirt Wizard 29x3 tires, air shocks, and it just topped the scales at #41! I know, most people cringe when thinking about riding that beast, but it is the best machine I have tried for the way I shred. #RideGG #trailpistol
#whiterimlap #bunnyhops #lovemywhip
Bike weight really matters if you care how fast you go up. Really fast guys beat average guys downhill by 10-30 sec. Really fast guys going up beat average guys by minutes. Among those fast guys going up, bike weight will matter. I'm 185-190 (sometimes!) when I'm as fit as I can be, and going up is never going to be my strong suit.
Bottom line - You are not a variable you can change much. Bikes you can.
Drop 5% of your body weight and you'll be faster. Ride a 25lb bike up a 1500 ft climb and you'll be faster than if its a 35 lb bike assuming the fit is the same. Service that suspension so the wheels stay on the ground when they should and you'll go faster. Get someone who's truly fast to teach you to lean your bike, and stay low, and stay in a proper position even when its gnarly and you'll be better at going fast and more likely to not wreck yourself.
Bike weight matters. Body weight matters. Bike set up matters. Knowing how to ride matters.
Not riding because you're reading posts on PB matters. My 26 lb bike is hanging in the garage and it needs a fork rebuild. Maybe I'll get out tomorrow . . .
Thus, the Bike itself weighs around 14kg which should be the goal for most trail/Enduro bikes IMO.
Add max. 600g for DH tires if you race Enduro.
The main issue I have with modern bikes is how stiff they are. They translate too much vibration to you and they knock you off line.
I'm nearly as quick now on my 27.5lbs Mondraker as I was on my older bike because it's more reliable (especially wheels/tyres), so I can hit harder lines and it pedals better/weighs less and I was much fitter then when I was racing.
I loved the acceleration of the 640gr Ardent Race on technical climbs, but it only lasted 200km before it got a 5cm tear. 850gr HR2 lasted more, but died the same way. Tough/Fast Trail Bosses since then and they just get replaced when the tread is gone.
There's a weight minimum that depends on terrain, rider style/weight etc. Judging from my riding mates, stronger and heavier riders put a lot more strain on their equipment. From tyres and rims to brakepads, their wear rate is way different than mine.
For trail riding the bike comes alive again on carbon wheels and lighter tyres, good for everything bar sending down rock gardens so I don't hit them when set up like that.
XC bike (Mach 429SL) 27lbs
AM/enduro bike (Deviate Guide) 36lbs
Bikes are built as they need to be, they weigh what they weigh
Im sure it could be lighter, if I went carbon, XTR, Carbon rims etc etc, but I don't know if it would be better to the value that that would cost to do that
Loose weight first, than ditch the backpack in favor of lighter options, get lighter gear, bring the essential and ditch the superflu (computer, big smartphone, electronics)...
I think overall weight is secondary to both tires and suspension design/ setup. If I can stand up and stomp on the pedals when climbing or sprinting, that matters way more than weight. And if you put XC tires on a heavier bike, it will roll almost just as fast as a lighter bike and if you aren’t XC racing the second or two you are slower doesn’t matter in the trail. But then again, I’m on the north side of 200lbs and the gram counting on the bike can seem silly to me.
I suspect that as these bikes get better and encourage most of us to push a little more they are building in a little more 'bracing' to keep things stiffer and not end up with a deluge of broken frames that need warrantying?
For evidence, I present this video of Tracy Moseley, who is no slouch on a bike, neither knowing what her EWS race bike weighs, nor caring when they tell her:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=279&v=k0ow1ZZBOzk
(Fitness+geo)>bike weight
I guess it really does come down to light, cheap, or durable; pick 2.
If you're riding for fun, IMO, I doubt that you're really worried about if the climb takes another 4% longer, or more effort. I'd rather have a bike that was reliable, and lower in maintenance. That 4% is likely hard for us that aren't finely attuned to our personal performance/skill level to notice. And things like tire choice, suspension setup likely have more impact than that.
I honestly have a hard time telling the difference in climbing my new ~35lb enduro bike (Kona Process 153 AL 29'er), and my old hardtail (dont have the weight, but probably ~30lbs ish?). That said, I don't want a 70lb bicycle. So I do try to keep the bike as light as I can, within reason (durablility/reliability/price).
everything else --- meh, who cares?
funny how you gotta pay more for less.
for just riding around, just reasonable is fine, just makes you a stronger rider for what it's worth
My 2009 Transition Dirt Bag sports around 34lbs.... jump on my road bike for a day, I'm passing guys on their mega-bling 15lbs carbon road bikes like they're standing still
Between
a) the higher bike-to-rider weight ratio for smaller riders,
b) climbing vs descending balance/priorities, and
c) snappy/flickable vs. planted/stable preference, it's nice to have choices on both ends.
Demo-ing that Intense Sniper after flying to altitude from sea level was a sweet deal.
Carbon hardtails are awesome at around 20 lbs easily available nowadays in size L. But those are hard on the back for rough terrain. I love the intense spider at about 28 lbs and YT Jeffsy at about 29 lbs in size L. Both are capable of most anything and really solid going up and down. No doubt if you just go downhill a bigger and heavier bike can actually help and the specs / weight matter much less.
To me while I love a light bike I’m happy to ride 28-29 lbs over 22 lbs to gain 4-6 inches of travel on a bike that’s still super efficient. Still, if you’ve got to peddle up and want some rear travel, I’ll trade just about anything to stay in the 27-30 lb range rather than going up to 32-33, much less 40. The guys riding those bikes are clueless or don’t ever ride uphill.
Anyway,dh bikes are so light right now so I would like to set the limit of a trail bike with dh tires at lets say 16kg-16.5kg t (that leaves the torque,for example, out and many others). What they should develope the most to reduce weight is tyres and tyre inserts. I find it also unnacceptable at this level of prices and developement we are, that even with 1.5 kg dh casing tyres, tyre pressure is determined in most cases by rim longevity or to aviod flats. I would love to test that vittoria tube insert inventionwith lighter tyres because i cant stand tubeless, heavy tyres and new dented rims...
Bike: 16.2kg super slack Enduro (79° SA) with DH casing (Nicolai/Geometron) Coil
conclusion: happiness
I would really like to see these categories of bikes somehow differentiated. Continue making enduro bikes fit for the application: longer, slacker, burlier, heavier. But keep trail bikes (or call them something else) designed with true all-around performance as a goal. Some people do still ride uphill.
Or, do as you suggest: time the uphill portion of enduro races too (this will be a very unpopular suggestion). Then people will be forced out of their illusion and realize that their steep seat angles aren't saving them.
fml
now they supposedly "climb like an XC bike".
bikes are too heavy, but i don't know what the answer is.
It doesn't matter if you aren't XC racing.
Geometry and component reliability is first 2 things I care.
Put on some lycra and throw a leg over the carbon if that is your thing.