Podcast: Adam Brayton's Coach is Back With More Off-Season Workouts

122 Comments

109 4

nickkk (Jan 12, 2019 at 3:40)

FFS. CANT I JUST DRINK BEER AND UNDERACHIEVE ON MY BIKE THIS YEAR?!!

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Kramz (Jan 12, 2019 at 4:08) (Below Threshold)

That's what I'm doing. I gave it 110%; and it wasn't worth it. Like I have a choice between riding my bike, or getting beer, and beer is always the winner. Even if you give it 110% you won't end up like Adam Brayton.

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Boardlife69 (Jan 12, 2019 at 5:59)

@Kramz: I give it 110% to get to the after ride drinks, last place pays the first round so theres that motivation.

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Kramz (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:10) (Below Threshold)

@Boardlife69: Yeah, I did that with work, the boss would give us a beer after work. He was a HARD ass, like he acted like the one beer after work was the freaking holy grail of boss/employee relations. I don't know if he was religious or what.

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toad321 (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:58)

@Kramz: I enjoy working out for biking, stops me wasting my life watching tele or playing games, always enjoyed working out but doing it for looks or being stronger wasn’t strong motivation, now being fitter stronger and faster for biking is great motivation

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 9:55) (Below Threshold)

@toad321: I stop riding in the woods for 3-5months, just exercise in the gym and practice skills. When the summer comes I am hungry and enthusiastic, and ever since I started doing off trail work, ai got on a steep learning curve. The worst thing one can do is just ride the bike on same trails, over and over again.

leviatanouroboro (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:10)

@WAKIdesigns: Well unless they are the trails that are open on race day..

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:39) (Below Threshold)

@leviatanouroboro: Well, go to Val Di Sole and ride just tracks around Val Di Sole for 2 years, we'll see how much you learn, compared to a bloke who rides BMX, Dirt, pumptrack, does regular riding in the woods but also builds own tracks and travels. All best riders have huge depth of skill acquired by doing different stuff and getting the core skills down to science on "simple stuff" like BMX. Folks who just ride their bikes cluelessly get nowhere. And if you need proof of that, go to a bike park and talk to Joeys who build majority of population. "oh I need to learn to jump" - why don't buy a DJ bike and hit dirt jumps? "oh I need to learn to corner" - why don't you go to a gravel parking lot and practice? "oh I need to get stronger" - why don't you go to the gym? - the answer is one and the same: "I have so little time for it, so I'd rather be riding my bike in the woods".

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nickkk (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:48)

@WAKIdesigns: waki, can you do us all a favour here and just upload a video of you shredding your local trails better than everyone and crushing the most enormous workout known to man? All this humble bragging is just wasting time. Just give us what we want: evidence of you being god's gift to mountain biking. Please it's killing me not seeing it.

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nrpuk (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:55)

@WAKIdesigns: personally, I love how the seasons change my local trails, and personally, I’d rather spend my precious time on my bike than in the gym. I much prefer riding in the slop than being a fitness expert. Seems like my bike handling is getting better every year still.

20 0

dj100procentenduro (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:58)

@WAKIdesigns: you seem to forget that some guys really just love riding in the woods. And they don’t want/have to be at Sam Hill level to be cool with themselves.

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 12:05) (Below Threshold)

@nickkk: I just said off trail work pays big dividents on the trail. Like the founder of fit4r - I guess he talks bollocks. Anyways if you ever want to try gym + cones on parking lot you’ll be amazed how good you get at offcamber corners in wet. For the sake of your ego driven reply, I guess it is enough if I am faster than you, which I am so I must be doing something better than you. Want my program to get as good?

leviatanouroboro (Jan 12, 2019 at 12:41)

@WAKIdesigns: pretty sure if a person mastered Val Di Sole after 2 years they would be double digits faster on all the other WCDH tracks than a dirt jumping cone rider who lifts weights 2x/week... In DH I've had better results developing skills: chainless training more than anything.

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nickkk (Jan 12, 2019 at 13:08)

@WAKIdesigns: I'm just yanking your chain. You can set a clock by the frequency of your posts on training though, it's hillarous. It's like you can smell the words One Rep Max in a million parts of internet. It's unnerving.

bohns (Jan 12, 2019 at 13:55)

@Kramz: you've already sold yourself short then.. If you were still having beers while thinking you were giving 110% then you weren't giving it that!

bohns (Jan 12, 2019 at 14:01)

@nrpuk: you'll change ur tune I'm sure as you age and the little niggles creep in as well as injury.. I used to be the same.. But honestly... The gym has been huge... Injuries and little pains are gone.. My bike is lighter, more maneuverable... Arm pump is gone. Motivation amplified.. Can ride much longer.. Tech climbing is much easier.. And I'm way older... It pays dividends man! No one is saying u need to be a fitness freak living in a gym.. 45min to an hour 3 days a week is huge.

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 15:33) (Below Threshold)

@bohns1: I cannot believe how I wasted testosterone at 20-25... if I only knew I could DL 405 and bench 225 in a matter of 6 months... once you can DL 405 or RDL 225 15-20 times, arm pump and lower back pain becomes virtually non existent... I love it how people nod when Abi comes along with her Yoga, but lifting, sprinting? Nooo nooo! I am here for fun! You will not come here intimidating me, making me feel like I should go to the gym

Y12Sentinel (Jan 12, 2019 at 18:14)

acetaldehyde is not cool , drinking alcohol is old world recreation

Riwajc (Jan 12, 2019 at 20:14)

@nickkk: I know right?! This guy is apprently according to himself a world class bodybuilder, Mtb Slayer, engineer, material scientist, metallurgist, carbon expert, marketing expert, videographer, photographer, race organizer and good knows what else.

russthedog FL (Jan 12, 2019 at 20:22)

@WAKIdesigns: serious question, is dl deadlift? What is rdl?

adventuresbycole (Jan 12, 2019 at 20:50)

@russthedog: Romanian dead lift

nrpuk (Jan 12, 2019 at 22:56)

@bohns1: I am 45, so I am hardly a spring chicken.

skidmarkbro (Jan 12, 2019 at 22:59)

@WAKIdesigns: why you gotta bring Abi into this?? She is a nice girl! How much you bench?

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 23:58) (Below Threshold)

@skidmarkbro: what? I am just saying Gym is good for you, why are you folks getting into dick comparing contests?! Bench?! Of all things? Maybe curls?

@Riwajc I am Not a body builder their strength to muscle mass ratio sucks.

21 2

nickkk (Jan 13, 2019 at 0:52)

@WAKIdesigns: @WAKIdesigns: for the record, the only person here comparing their routine to all and sundry is.. you. Everyone here knows gym is good for you and MTB. You don't need to beat us all over the head with it time and time and time again. I've seen your social media, the deadlifts, and the mirror selfies, you undoubtedly know some good stuff and it's working for you as a busy father- I am even in the same boat as you as it happens with a young family. I think people are just a little tired of the holier than thou rhetoric. Ironically you come across as no better than the righteous CrossFiters you are fond of taking down a peg.

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 1:26) (Below Threshold)

@nickkk: that is interesting because I thought that this is s good place to chat about that since I like chatting about that. Unfortunately not... it’s not even a good place to talk about bike skills. The only thing good talking about here is whining on prices, standards, too short bikes, f*cking handlebar geometry (!) and licking balls of pro riders

russthedog FL (Jan 13, 2019 at 2:57)

@WAKIdesigns: I agree with you here, I think they're over sensititised

lek4130 (Jan 13, 2019 at 5:06)

@WAKIdesigns:

Have to agree with you here mate I started doing basic weight training at home cause of injuries + general lack of upper body strength and its made the bike feel better as much as all the upgrades i threw at it.

Know any good websites or youtube channels to follow for a beginner? all I got is some dumbells, pull up bar and no money

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 7:51)

@dovbvsh66: just go to Thenx.com

Other than that you can do lots with dumb bells and pull up bar but it is generally not that complicated. You have to arrange your sets so that each following exercise adresses different muscles than the previous one. The best example is this set of 3 exercises: 5x pull ups, 10x push ups and 10xsquats. Another set, a bit more resistance than speed training would be deadlift (yes dumb bells work as long as they are heavy), floor press, legs to bar. Finally plyometric: box jump (or high jump), plyo push ups (clap), swiss knife on bar.

Do each of these sets 3 times and you are done.

Another examples:
Arm push: all sorts of push ups, and floor press. Like Diamond pushups

Arm pull: 3 point row, upside down row, chin ups

Leg: single leg squat, lunge forward, lunge backward, pistol squat

Overall core stability: side leans, windmills, planche, side planche

For grip strength: just hang from the bar. Two hands, one hand. As long as you can. All exercises on the bar train your grip.

You can mix as many exercises as you want, just stick to one scheme for at least 3 weeks, just increase weight/reps so that your body adapts. Then change. Both too little and too much variation is bad. When doing sets never go 100% with intensity, or you won’t do 3 sets with same repxweight, especially with upper body. If 20x push ups is your max do 15 in the set. Also no point in going for more than 20 reps of anything. Add weight if it feels too easy. If you do bar exercises and you cannot do more than 3 of aomething, use stretch tape for assistance. It can take you 3 months to go from 3 to 4 pull ups, but it takes much less to go from 8 to 10. For strength 5-10reps is best.

Oh, and get some stretch tapes.

Good resources:
Thenx.com

When you get cash for gym or for barbell
Starting strength and barbell Medicine

lek4130 (Jan 13, 2019 at 8:08)

@WAKIdesigns:
nice one. cheers.

nickkk (Jan 13, 2019 at 8:40)

@WAKIdesigns: good advice there, credit where it's due. @dovbvsh66 when I started YouTube channels like BuffDudes and Scoobys Workshop were very helpful. Both have alot of straightforward drills and beginner walk throughs of the key compound moves. Both pages (amongst many others) have a focus on limited equipment. Waki rightly points out that a set of dumbells and pull up bar work really well and provide a lifetime of variation. I'm still learning all the time but those channels have been around years and have a ton of stuff to get into. Bands are also v helpful for warm ups. They have helped my shoulders alot when benching for instance. (Never been to a gym -only ever trained at home for the record)

WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:02)

@dovbvsh66: just steer away from body building stuff. Unfortunately Thenx has a bit of that and I think only because most of their clients are more interested in looking ripped than being able to do planches, front levers, flags or hand stands. Body builders efforts are targeted at doing as much damage to the muscle as they can as long as they can hit the gym few days later. Damaged muscle needs repair and that repair makes them grow bigger just like a constantly irritated big wound gets bigger scar than a small one. But big muscles don’t mean lots of strength (not unless you are Ben Pollock deadlifting 400kg), Jared Graves is not that big and will outlift most big dudes in gyms around the world, if only for the fact that many body builders are dumb enough to steer away from squats and deadlifts because it makes their trunks grow too wide (check out Adams belly on lic from the previous poscast, he is wide due to heavy squats) and it makes their shoulders look smaller. So if you see sites with programs having things like arm day or leg day, be careful

Especially those with drop sets. Drop sets are good at increasing muscle size, not any better and increasing strength. And cycling is a sport of power to weight ratio

and girls appreciate athletic bodies regardless whether you look like Graves, Brayton or some insta body building star. So will your coworkers notice your improved figure. Better riding, lower chance of injury, looking good. Win win win

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:13)

@WAKIdesigns: The thing is.. The gym should not be intimidating.. Everyone starts at the bottom and everyone is on their own journey.. Who gives a shit what the guy next to you is lifting.. I don't even lift uber heavy and all my pains are gone plus I'm way leaner... Helps with the puss situation too! Ha

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:15)

@nrpuk: I'm not far behind.. Can't believe you haven't been hindered yet.. I'm in better shape now than I ever was in my twenties. Turning back the clock biologically feels great!

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:16)

@WAKIdesigns: Tell that to Ronnie Coleman.. Although he is pretty fked up now! 1000lb squats for reps will do that to Ya I guess!

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:18)

@dovbvsh66: look no further and subscribe to Jeff Cavaliere athleanx on you tube.. Smartest sports therapist you'll find anywhere hands down!

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:19)

@nickkk: checkout athleanx owned by Jeff Cavaliere and be done with it

nickkk (Jan 13, 2019 at 12:26)

@bohns1: cheers, yeah that guy has been recommended before to me recently actually. Will check him out.

lek4130 (Jan 13, 2019 at 13:23)

@WAKIdesigns:

Bodybuilding is tempting because of my love for poorly fitting death metal shirts but bike comes first ))). I jumped straight from XC to DH, so I have issues with reacting to fast steep corners and keeping the bike planted in wet rough stuff. Good advice going overall here, beats bitching about millimeters and standards

WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 15:20)

@bohns1: yeah Ronnie Coleman. When you jack up yourself so hard you can deadlift 1000lbs no probs. You also weigh 30% more than an Olympic lifter who isn’t slim by any standards. I am personally a fan of BMX racers physique. Any sport where weight to power ratio has to be good. Off course if you don’t juice, you won’t get too big, at least as a Mtn biker. # natural

WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 15:35)

@bohns1: no offense but I went on youtube to search for Jeff Cavaliere and he has “get yourself pretty stuff”. Beginning MTBer needs a plan like fit4racing or James W or Dee Tidwell to get a principle right. Not get your back nice, big bicep fast etc... Just my opinion...

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 16:01)

@WAKIdesigns: Then u haven't watched much.. He is a sports therapist.. Hes all about training like an athlete if u want to be an athlete.. Small muscles that never get used when u just do squats and deads.. He incorporates single leg training which is paramount.. I've improved a huge amount by utalizing his techniques.. He himself is buff and shredded but that's not what he's about.. Hes about making athletes better..

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 16:02)

@WAKIdesigns: search athleanx instead..

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 16:08)

@nickkk: Lots of good info from him.. Some if it's bber type stuff but most is train like an athlete if u want to be an athlete type info. The man knows his shit! I've improved a ton because of him.

bohns (Jan 13, 2019 at 16:13)

@WAKIdesigns: youtu.be/5DfCBBPgxE0

Hers an great example for ya..

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 1:55)

@bohns1: got it, now we are talking. I guess his youtube stuff is like some thenx workouts, for folks building for Tinder, while they should be coming up with idea for getting loads of cash for a sports car. Apparently they are the biggest clients group... how to lose weight and build muscle

My favorite channel is Juggernaut training systems. Dudes can their stuff, they can lift for reals, both resistance and power, but they look fat. No credibility then! This man can nothing, he has no abs!

If you want strength training comedy just google Ask Rip. Rippetoe is quite rigid in his training advice but he can dis snake oil sellers into oblivion

tom666 FL (Jan 14, 2019 at 5:46)

@leviatanouroboro: @WAKIdesigns: One thing the internet is good at doing is removing all nuance and individual differences from a situation. Let me hit this with some nuance.

Spending all your time in the gym won't make you a great bike rider. That's for sure.

Spending all your time on the bike and doing no strength work, stretching etc can feasibly hold you back too - particularly if you spend a lot of time riding the same trails and are just going through the motions a lot - riding trails you already know inside out.

The best way to improve is to work on your weaknesses - so if you're currently pretty shit on a bike (or even just pretty average) you're probably best off almost exclusively just riding your bike, enjoying it and doing skills practice now and then to improve your biggest weaknesses. Particularly if you're in season or riding conditions are good for you at the moment.

If you're already a pretty good mountain biker, have been riding a fair while and haven't improved very much recently then maybe improving your strength and flexibility is something you should look at.

There's also injury prevention and general health benefits to be being strong and flexible, so it's probably good for everybody in some capacity.

Most of our local trails aren't anything like the quality of Val Di Sole either - and most of us have a winter or off season where the quality of riding is compromised and the amount of effort needed to go on a ride is a lot higher. Taking some time during that winter to work on strength and conditioning is probably a good idea. But doing strength and conditioning rather than riding during summer is a pretty questionable move and I don't think anybody would recommend that.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 6:11)

@tom666: gym treaining is not equal to gym training. And doing a well rounded work out is not as good as well rounded periodized work out. Yes, there is no good way to get into nuances. And i'd rather do quality work in the gym and inside a parking building (skill drills) than bang myself around on same trails in the dark and on snow over and over again. Only to start developing bad habits.

At this moment I cannot ride in the weekdays. It gets dark an hour before I leave work. Also biking is not everything. Each one of us has a body to nurture until the rest of our lives. One could even go to extents to say that being a weekend warrior after sitting all week in the office can do more damage than good to your muscles, ligaments and bones. The only riders that I have seen to have excellent physique by just riding, are BMX racers and trails riders. It is hard to believe yet true, that guys like Ali Clarkson or Chris Akrigg didn't go to the gym. But they ride lots using whole body. The worst physique belongs to... roadies.

So for most of us mortals, strength training and whole body cardio (or crossfit) is a way to stay vigorous and healthy in all activities in life. I treat biking as something that wears me down, detrimental to my health and economy. A harmful delight. I know exactly what's in the contract. But that's just me.

Nagrom77 (Jan 14, 2019 at 8:57)

@bohns1: With you 100% on the Athleanx programs. For about four years I've been training around a bulging disc in my lower back. The Sports Therapy suggestions from Jeff have actually helped me not only be able to begin handling deadlifts and squats again, but have shown me how to actually self -manipulate (albeit very carefully) the disc in my lower back via stretching excercises. To pigeonhole his teaching as being only for body builders would be to not only sell Jeff's experience short, but would cause one to loose out on some excellent training. Copy paste link: www.youtube.com/channel/UCe0TLA0EsQbE-MjuHXevj2A

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 10:36)

@WAKIdesigns: well If training Antonio Brown is snake oil then I don't know what to believe.. Jeff trains the best of the best in every major sports field.. For me, personally I don't need to go looking for anything else.. The improvements I've made and translated to my riding through his knowledge has been huge.. Obviously not bike skill stuff but that's the other part of the equation.. For that I got Ryan Leech...

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 10:39)

@WAKIdesigns: as soon as the guy on the channel looks fat, I'm out.. I don't care what he has to offer after that and don't care how much he lifts.. Keep that shit lean year round people!

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 10:43)

@Nagrom77: Exactly 100% bud... I think people that put him into that category haven't really delved into what he is about.. Hes the full package physically and knowledge wise.. Good to hear you've sorted your discs man! He's helped me a ton as well... My mobility has gone way up as well as Injury prevention.. My 30lb bike feels like my old 24lb hardtail at this point.. Tech climbing has improved immensely

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 10:47)

@bohns1: well it is kind of a consensus in weight/ powerlifting world that a serious caloric surplus is necessary for strength gains. Even a big portion of body builders know and apply this. Read on bulking up period.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 11:08)

@WAKIdesigns: There's another cavaliere vid that dispels all of that bs.. Its about eating nutrient dense foods that build muscle.. I'm witnessing it now.. I keep my protein higher and carbs are usually yams or veggies.. More veg towards the end of the day mind you.. I'm burning fat and gaining muscle... Its about quality.. That's also one of the reasons jeff is usually always shirtless.. He is showcasing that u can be lean year round and still be strong as hell.. That bulking cutting is a myth.. Maybe if u want to be powerlifter or ridiculously huge or strong man competitor.. But that's a different world.. Athlean is athletic performance based for the most part.. I'll never do a bulk /cut ever again!

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 11:16)

@bohns1: Again I have no intention to criticize Jeff. I just expressed my initial I gravitate around 3-4 schools and look for common threads. From body building side I deeply enjoy Rob Riches, he has lots of focus on form. Barbell Medicine, Strength Untamed and Juggernaut have excellent if not best stuff on form for people who want to lift heavy and want their numbers to go up fast without hurting themselves. Austin Baraki and Jordan F are my only fitness gurus if I can call anyone like that. Rippetoes podcasts are funny but The Infinite Elgintensity /Exercise in Futility is best fitness comedy out there for me

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BWcGrHqGug

Make sure you don't hear ZERO! in the back of your head after your reps

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 11:32)

@WAKIdesigns: I hear Ya man.. Hears another good one for ya. youtu.be/ykMNii9vQDs

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 11:34)

@bohns1: I won't be risking it. I was training lean with lots of protein and creatine for two years with half the improvement after going on +1000 surplus. 10kg a month on 5x squat does me well and since I can easily drop 10-15 pounds in a month, 20 in 2 months, it's not a problem to me to go up and down. When I'll start riding more as the days get longer, loosing weight will be a breeze. I will tell you more, I have no freaking clue how people get fat, I tried. Lord I tried for last few months. When you drop sweets and don't pound in fats, bulking up becomes a challenge.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 12:01)

@WAKIdesigns: Ya I gain a thin layer and that's it.. I've just ramped up quality then quantity and consistency and I'm putting on while getting leaner.. Then again I have no desire to one rep max huge weights... Its a ton of food I find to gain and get lean at the same time. Some days 8 meals. Feeling great tho.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 14:34)

@bohns1: I don’t rep max huge weights on regular basis, I use it only to measure progress, I don’t go to meets. 5 reps are beat for strength building, can be broken with 3s or 8s when you start plateauing. Only to get back to fives. It is hard an risky enough at my age to get to base level. And 1000lbs DL+squat+bench 1RM is the base level for vast majority of sports. I am not planning to get to 200lbs of body mas (which would stand for around 20%fat in my case), but I won’t try to get to squat double the body weight with 10% body fat on me. Graves was 72kg for XC 80kg for Enduro, 90kg for BMX/ 4X. It says a lot. According to my sources, the max weights (either 1x or 5x) will go down, with increase in riding volume and decrease in fat tissue. Also what Jeff says is nothing new. It’s been a few years since I’ve heard about precise timing of meals and increasing protein along with quality carb intake during deficit in order to preserve as much muscle as possible. Add time restricted eating, cold exposure, mixed with heat exposure and you. The issue is that according to my sources, quality carbs like fruit and veggies simply mean that you have less cravings. If you want even less cravings and reach fitness world zen, get into low carb, high fat, or even... KETO+IF!!!

fast626 (Jan 14, 2019 at 14:46)

@dovbvsh66: I follow AthleanX on YouTube. He's probably one of the smartest and most knowledgeable people to follow when it comes to training smarter in the gym while avoiding injuries. I had a partially torn labrum in my left shoulder from this past summer and he even has workouts tailored for working around injuries. So I even got stronger while recovering from an injury which I never thought could happen. Shoulder should be fully healed and ready for shredding hard this summer.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 15:05)

@WAKIdesigns: I've done keto.. It simply doesn't agree with me.. It zaps my energy even tho I get lean af on it... I'm all about keeping it simple now.. Just quality everything.. I actually don't get cravings for sweets or potatoes chips ever.. Worst case would be wings /pizza cravings and beer.. That's as junky as I get.. For the most part I'm stoked on chicken /veg and a ton of hot sauce... Different types of hot sauce keep it Interesting for me and I'm happy .. Over 40 now so all I chase is a better me bud.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 15:06)

@fast626: There Ya go man! Dude really is a genius in what he does!

tom666 FL (Jan 14, 2019 at 15:45)

@bohns1: Claim that bulking and cutting is a myth is pretty preposterous. Don't spread misinformation like that.

Big bulking and cutting cycles aren't a great idea for mountain biking though, I agree, and most mountain bikers are either beginners or detrained so will probably be able to recomposition quite successfully for a while. Again, it all depends on individual differences. What people should do to get better on their bike depends almost entirely on where they're at now.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 19:17)

@tom666: it is a myth in that its not required.. Sure it works if you're trying to be a bodybuilder but u can gain muscle while burning fat and its proven... Personally I agree with Jeff Cavaliere on that topic in that its a complete waste of time for the vast majority.. Especially athletes..

WAKIdesigns (Jan 14, 2019 at 23:18)

@bohns1: with all due respect, I am on weight/ powerlifting program and I listen to what power lifters say is the fasest and most efficient ways to make the numbers on the bar go up. I’d need to see Jeffs own numbers to know if he can put the money where his mouth is. He operates with terms which origin is not understandable to me and 99% of his followers, just like folks who tell others to bulk up. We both need to trust what they are saying is right just like he would have to trust us if he required our expertize. I am an architect not biologist, chemist or nutritionist whatever the last one really means.

If you gave me 10k$ and told me: look and lift like Jeff Cavaliere in a year, I’d say Easy peasy. I’ll control my food intake and pump out hypertrophy targeted supersets. If you told me to lift like Dr Jordan Figenbaum in a year, I wouldn’t be able to do that with best steroids. So until he can DL 3,5 times his body weight, trains many folks who do that, I will not take his advice on strength/power focused regime. In fact I am quite sure he does’t lift more than 3xBW. Finally, Olympic athletes taking part in rather developed sports like weight lifting are always a prime example of how to train and eat, ehat to do to win a medal. If there was some secret formula going around what they do, if they were all so wrong, you’d see Jeff come out of nowhere and grab all the medals. But it just doesn’t happen and for the most part weight lifters are fat.

When it comes to lean, huge body builders who lift lots, like Ben Pollock or Larry Wheels, well, they are juiced up their ears. That is a reason why actual natural dudes don’t get much bigger than Jeff.

nrpuk (Jan 15, 2019 at 0:41)

@bohns1: Spend a big part of my life training for rock climbing. Been biking about 6 years, so still on a learning curve where I am improving by just riding my bike. For sure everyone can benefit from strength and conditioning, but for me it’s not a big thing.

tom666 FL (Jan 15, 2019 at 2:41)

@bohns1: Even then that's not exactly true. If you had a WC downhill racer you could suggest that they bulk up 2-4 kilos during the winter/offseason - eating that good food and doing hard resistance training. They would be staying fit still, using that extra food to fuel winter rides, gym sessions, hard sessions on rowing machines and HIIT circuits etc. They would gain a tonne of muscle and strength in that time (it might be nearly all muscle for a lot of them) and then as spring comes around they could look to shed any extra fat they've gained that they don't want (maybe 1-2kg) once they're spending more time on the bike again. They'd then come into the next season stronger and leaner as the result of a bulk and cut.

Recompositioning works fine and is a good idea for beginners, the detrained and the obese (and those on performance enhancing drugs). It doesn't work for natural athletes season after season, particularly those who are lifting consistently and already pretty strong. If you're in your first year of training and getting on well for it that's great. Go for it. I recompositioned in my first year of training because I didn't want to commit to either a bulk or a cut - but in hindsight I wish I had just committed to a bulk and made the most of those noobie gains because you only get them once.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 15, 2019 at 2:52)

@tom666: I was doing 5-3-1 through last two years (three times a week squats on one day, DL on another,) , and I 've been maintaining/ cutting in that period. Each season I started at 110kg max DL and 80 squat with 80kg body weight and couldn't breach 140-145kg DL and 105 squat. on 1 rep max by June. This winter I changed to Linear progression with bulk up (same macros as before but with 1000-1500 caloric surplus), and before I plateaued I got from 130 to 175DL and 90squat to 135kg, bench 75 to 100kg in freaking 3 months. I call it not bad.

tom666 FL (Jan 15, 2019 at 3:43)

@WAKIdesigns: Makes perfect sense. You can put a certain amount on your squat, bench and deadlift (or any movement actually) by developing better technique and better CNS adaptations - you get better at directing the force into the bar in an efficient way by just practicing the movement hundreds/thousands of times - which is what you were doing before. But there comes a point when you HAVE to grow new muscle to get stronger, otherwise it's just marginal gains.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 15, 2019 at 7:07)

And you have to grow not whatever muscle, anyone can pump out drop sets, and build noodles. But I think here again it is about the goals. I absolutely totally see what Bohns is after, it is reasonable. But when your goal is building capital of strength to later convert it to whatever you want, you want to do it effectively, especially when you know, that as the season progresses, the riding volume and caloric intake adjustment will easily let you get lean again. Sprints suck the fat out of me within a month or two. Also, as I started with lifting and bulking up before winter, I got up 10lbs in 1,5 month, but(!) after that I plateaud without changing intake. So now I am only 13lbs from my before summer weight, and judging by the size of my thighs (I had to buy 2 new pairs of Jeans...) shoulders and chest, I got up at least 3lbs in muscle. Funny enough my upper line of abs and it’s outline (along with dick paths) don’t want to disappear.

bohns (Jan 15, 2019 at 9:55)

@WAKIdesigns: But that's just it.. Your following the realm of powerlifting.. That's not what I'm talking about. Jeff puts up crazy numbers but again.. Not one rep max power lifts.. Hes also not a bodybuilder or just about hypertrophy.. You would need to delve into him more to understand.. He trains athletes and their specific needs.. Take Antonio Brown one of his latest clients.. He ain't trying to make him bigger... He's making him stronger all while improving explosive mobility in athletic performance... If ur into power lifting then Ya, Jeff is probably not for you.. As for me.. I'm just sticking with what is working and that is Athleanx.. There is just simply too much valuable information for me to pass up... I don't find it hard to understand at all.. If I'm stumped on something I look it up.. Hes pretty straight forward I think.. Performing saggital plane movements such as deads, squats, cleans is leaving a huge void if ur after athletic performance.. They are staples sure but if ur not incorporating transverse movements then it's only a matter of time before injury comes knocking.

bohns (Jan 15, 2019 at 9:56)

@WAKIdesigns: I wouldn't want to be bigger than jeff.. Nor does he himself want to be any bigger..

bohns (Jan 15, 2019 at 10:03)

@tom666: are u saying it doesn't work for Jeff Cavaliere then?? That's all he does.. Year round.. I used to do bulk cuts a few years back and it was a pain.. Started adhering to his way of doing it and my strength and muscle went up as fat down.. Its all about quality, quantity and consistency of nutrient dense foods.. Will that get me power lifter strong? Of course not but it is a nicer way to maintain for athletic purpose.. Its working for me and I'm no newb been at this 15 yrs... Its more about body confusion and the constant Quality foods to make it work..

WAKIdesigns (Jan 15, 2019 at 10:35)

@bohns1: you miss a fundamental cue here. I don’t want to become a power lifter. I am quite sure that Jared Graves, Adam Brayton, Marcelo Gutierrez lift 1000lbs total (DL, Sq, BP) This is a Base level. Base. BMX racers lift that in fives. Liam Philips just posted a vid of him deadlifting 405 at bar speed of my 225. And he finished career some time ago. Check insta profiles of top BMXers, they post videos of their training from time to time. What MTBers do will seem like silly kids play to you. 2000-2500W on momentary test, Sagan and Nino can dream about it. And most of our thrill as amateur bikers depends on 2-5 pedal strokes after each corner, then ability to hold on to the bike and pound it into the ground. Meanwhile most of us work on climbing fireroad and then coast down.

bohns (Jan 15, 2019 at 12:04)

@WAKIdesigns: fair enough.. I'm sure Nino really cares however and pretty sure he doesn't dream about it.. He does what it takes to win.. Trains like an athlete.. For me personally climbing in the Rockies is fsr from fire roads.. It is a ton of tech climbing for hours on end.. This is one of the areas I've noticed most improvements from training..

Fun little thing I've started incorporating is doing a leg workout and then immediately afterwords jumping on zwift to attempt an ftp test.. A test of fortitude ill tell ya. It is what some of the xc guys I know have started implementing for their winter training.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 15, 2019 at 13:24)

@bohns1: I heard about things like that. Like increase in vertical jumo just after lifting heavy. You think that after a maxed set of 3-5 squats you would have lower result than your normal one. On the contrary. Your max height will be momentarily increased. That is off course for people who do not train vertical jump on regular basis, like basketball players. Same with sprinting after work out. I haven’t checked that, but some literature says that non sprinters will get momentary improvements in sprinting ability after the work out. I noticed that my deadlift improves after a set of squats. I always do 5x max squat before 3x5 session of deadlifting. Sprinting is huge. I rarely do volume on road. I do it only Because it feels it “greases” all the gears in the machine. But it doesn’t make it stronger. When I do all day rides in the summer I feel how my strength goes away. Before the summer I reach 225 on squat. Then I work out no more than once a week. By September my lifts are around 20% lower. Rippetoe claims low intensity high volume decreases strength and power rather effectively.

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southshorepirate FL (Jan 12, 2019 at 5:20)

...cue the armchair physios and trainers in 3, 2, 1

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 5:56)

maybe they are having a day off @robwhynot

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freestyIAM (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:00)

@downtimepodcast: rest days are important

inverted180 (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:05)

I can be one of those but I found this guy to be pretty good. No voodoo....mostly just common sense movement and hard work.

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:24)

@freestyIAM: ha, love it!

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WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 10:27) (Below Threshold)

@robwhynot this workout features crossfit, heavy weight lifting and using a trainer/ road bike. The only people that could be offended by it is yoga teachers and functional movement leeches (I want to throw 50lbs kettlebells at them - streeetch your fasciaaaa! - hey catch this on your fascia, let's see how good you are at adressing imbalances in your body you prick!".

Anyhoo, It gets you tired as hell like pretty much every crossfity thing so 99% of users will swear by it since vast majority of people judge a work out by fatigue or if you are a gym bro: RPE. I read the Enduro program and it made me chuckle a bit. You will not be the most liked person in the gym. Kettlebells by the trainer bike and running to the chin up bar hahaha, only to find someone taking your bike hahahah

Make sure you rest, eat and hold your horses when riding in between sessions.

betsie (Jan 13, 2019 at 1:51)

@WAKIdesigns: haha.
I got the irony of your comment.

I guess the snowflakes on here just wanted to negative prop you.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 13, 2019 at 1:59)

@betsie: I have nothing against this program, it’s just that you will need a big portion of gym for yourself. Undoable in Peak hours. I did Ryan Hughes MX program few years back and I had to go either early in the morning or very late in the evening. Otherwise I had to literally put my towell and water bottle under cable station and a duffel bag by the rowing machine. Someone would eventually still take it.

betsie (Jan 13, 2019 at 4:49)

@WAKIdesigns: I know the feeling.
But then I invested in a home gym and now have a CFT and pull down machine at home as well as free weights and a turbo in the garage. I use badminton for my lunges. Big week this week with up to 8 hours court time due to a competition on Friday night and another one Tonight instead of a normal club night.
I don't have to worry about travelling to the gym. It's up in the garden. Facebook marketplace and patience pays off in the long run. I can't do squats as my knee is shot so have to do alternatives. A little like what a physio will give to a knee patient it's single leg Step up under complete control. Make it harder by trying it with eyes closed as this shows any core weakness straight away. (According to my physio pal anyway). Balance balls and step exercises work great too as well as loaded walking (sand filled inner tube from a trailer), much more like riding than single leg squats, box jumps or squats and best of all free and available.

bohns (Jan 14, 2019 at 11:17)

@betsie: Home gym is the best investment I've ever made.. Wife wasn't to happy at first but now she sees the light.. Training on your on time line is huge.. Simply walking upstairs when you're done to the vitamix to make your shake or zap ur meal is a huge time saver.. Best decision I've made even tho it cost a bit and I'm still not done

betsie (Jan 13, 2019 at 0:55)

I love training and gym content stuff. Hip mobility for us office people is so important. Personally I find athlene-x on youtube great if it's not just Enduro and Dh workouts you are looking for. His content about diet, mistakes he has made etc as well as compound movement exercises and working out muscles in the right way are great. JC is a physio and trainer.

Karve (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:50)

@downtimepodcast: To balance this i think you allow the interviewee to talk a lot more than other podcasts out there - I think Spoomner is maybe the best at it with his chilled style but your pretty good. Interviewing is way harder than people think.. that why there have been very few masters - parky / wogan etc.

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:54)

Thanks @Karve, as with everything we do, it can always be better... plenty to learn and improve on. I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm excited to keep at it though and to keep trying to get better.

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subwaypanda FL (Jan 12, 2019 at 12:48)

I'm with you on this, downtime is superb and I'm really pleased to see that it is getting coverage on a platform like PB. Unfortunately I have given up on hkt podcast, while it is well intentioned the interviewer spends way too much time relating everything to himself, when you have his story 20 times but don't get to hear from the guest it is frustrating. Keep up the excellent work downtime!

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 13:44)

@Kickmehard: thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying listening.

HookitProducts (Jan 13, 2019 at 6:38)

@Kickmehard: Thanks for the feedback!

nickkk (Jan 13, 2019 at 8:55)

@HookitProducts: i have respectfully to agree, there have been some excellent episodes over the months but... I have found the long intros incl music and focus on the presenter a little too much so stepped away. Your Boris Beyer interview epic was brilliant. It really clicked on that one for me. I know there's a huge fan worship of Joe Rogan going on but too much rambling can be a little much.

heatproofgenie (Jan 12, 2019 at 11:56)

Can't wait to listen to it. I've watched some of his youtube content last year and got good workout ideas from him.

I looked at the Enduro workout, are the kettlebell swings for Day 1 one or two handed swings?

Keep up the good work Downtime!

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 13:43)

thank @heatproofgenie, glad you like it. If you check the video that's in the shownotes over on our website then you'll see all the movements there. From memory, I think the swings are 2 handed.

adventuresbycole (Jan 12, 2019 at 20:52)

Single hand swings are great for transitioning to lunge and press or any overhead movements in a "flow". Sing hand swings are definitely harder to keep good form but great benefits both 2 and 1 handed.

heatproofgenie (Jan 13, 2019 at 7:55)

@adventuresbycole: I'm a big fan of swings and definitely prefer single handed swings. As you say if you focus on good form they are an incredible movement.

I've been doing around 70-100 swings per side and then 5 Turkish get ups on each side with 24kg kettlebell most every day and I've been very impressed how effective just that alone has been for general fitness but also bike fitness. Also has translated very well to Nordic skiing fitness, specifically skate skiing which I find to be one of the most difficult of all endurance sports. Usually it takes me at least a few days to get in the grove but I was able to ski well on first day.

adventuresbycole (Jan 13, 2019 at 11:23)

@heatproofgenie: Right on! Swings were one of the harder KB moments for me to learn, still trying to master them! I use them as a finishing move after a squat set or lunges. You can really feel the burn!

Otago (Jan 12, 2019 at 15:35)

Or, flag the gym and go do something useful - build a retaining wall, dig a trail, chop firewood etc. You'll increase your core strength and have something to show for it afterwards...

caltife (Jan 12, 2019 at 23:45)

So in other words, I should keep playing Red Dead Redemption 2

thesharkman (Jan 13, 2019 at 1:55)

@caltife: that's probably the best solution for wrist pump

ThunderChunk (Jan 15, 2019 at 21:17)

I go to the gym at 4 am. Then I go to my labour intensive job. Today I demolished a cinder block wall with a sledge hammer. Then in my spare time, since I work out early morning, I ride my bike. You don't have to flag the gym to do other things.

brad-cycle-direct (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:37)

I started the programme this week, some solid workouts. You need to be 100% motivated though as some of them are disgusting, in a good way! And I found it through your podcast, great work!

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:56)

Good work @knightB27, they are demanding workouts for sure, and you've got to give it everything you've got. I'm sure the gains will be worth it!

brad-cycle-direct (Jan 12, 2019 at 8:48)

@downtimepodcast: found the podcast a couple of week ago keeping me sane while in Iraq, keep up the good work.

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 9:48)

@knightB27: I'm glad to hear it, sound like you've got a good few episodes to catch up on too if you've only just found us, enjoy!

tdog123 (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:55)

I always come in first place with the Sierra Nevada race …#supersets #brahh

InsaNeil024 (Jan 15, 2019 at 7:39)

12 oz. curls!

metareal (Jan 12, 2019 at 2:21)

Great content! I subscribed to fit4r

downtimepodcast (Jan 12, 2019 at 2:27)

Good stuff, thanks @metareal

theronsta FL (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:20)

I huck boxes at UPS for 5-9 hours straight mon-fri. Who needs a gym?

beanandcheeseburrito (Jan 14, 2019 at 14:50)

Uh, someone who doesn’t huck boxes all day?

InsaNeil024 (Jan 15, 2019 at 7:38)

Do you even lift, bro?!?!

forkguardian (Jan 12, 2019 at 7:22)

gains

mjcrawdad (Jan 12, 2019 at 6:48)

not sure what "off season" means. Too cold to ride? Move to socal....Rode yesterday and it was sunny and warm

Bob-Agg (Jan 12, 2019 at 8:59)

It's about racing. If you don't race there is no off season.

WAKIdesigns (Jan 12, 2019 at 10:37)

@Bob-Agg: #yearroundjerry

RyanAF (Jan 12, 2019 at 18:02)

Socal= brocal

TheJD (Jan 13, 2019 at 1:48)

Everyone cannot live in socal.

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