Pinkbike Poll: Where Do You Shop for Bike Parts?

 Maybe if you bought from there they'd keep it in stock but as everyone buys online shops don't bother stocking it. The shop is vastly responsible for a lot of its issues but at the end of the day if people don't buy a certain product from the shop then they won't stock it. It's business to a degree.

 This.

Two days ago, I spent an entire afternoon riding around the three LBS in my town (that deal primarily with town bikes) looking for a Shimano 10s HG chain.

I came home disappointed, turned on the PC and had one on my doorstep less than 24 hours later.

This is my experience for nearly everything. I am not their demographic. It is what it is, but I’d like to be able to support them, so will still continue to go every time I need consumables.

I have to go back today because the chain breaker I bought from one of them was made of cheese and broke when I tried to use it....

Gotta love our lbs round here!!

 Agreed. I buy it wherever I want to because...FREEDOM

 Also, the shop HAS to say that. They know you have the capability. But customers don’t like being shut down without an option. On top of that, some people actually do want them to order it. They don’t want the hassle. They would rather the shop orders it, gets the right thing, and to help support the shop.

So, keep that in mind. They are just tryna still offer service, even though they don’t have what you are looking for.

 Oh, you need a new wheel, lets see, is it 26, 27.5, or 29? Regular, plus, or fat bike? Non-boost, boost, or super-boost? XD, microspline, or standard? Right there is 3x3x3x3=81 options and we havent even decide on brand, color, spoke type, or material. Stocking the shelves in our store is pointless when we can have it delivered in 1 business day.

 Items I've been told "we dont stock it, but we can order it" in the last year.
1. Shimano 180mm 6 bolt rotor
2. Maxxis DHR2 Exo 29"
3. Shimano XT 2 pot brake pads
4. I9 Torch hub bearings (okay kind of get it)
5. Fox Transfer post 31.6 150mm
6. Sram boost 32 tooth chain ring

 There are so many different parts and standards that no shop will carry everything needed. Its not feasible to carry thousands of pieces of equipment hoping a couple people will buy it. This is why we have multiple suppliers with numerous warehouses all over the U.S. which are also experiencing unprecedented shortages. Amazon has destroyed peoples' expectations and expect everything to arrive within a few business days. That's not reality, get with the program. If you're disappointed by the wait, you are part of the problem and you need to reevaluate what's important in your life.

 @scott-townes: How is it not reality????? If I can order it and get it within a couple of days--so can you. It is you, who still coddle to bike suppliers and trying to save on shipping. 2 weeks to get a part---GTFO. How about you just order the part from Amazon and charge me what you were going to charge anyways....or is that to hard of a concept to grab. Your argument is with the supply chain---not us....You all just say--"hey, I know you shred nearly daily, but put that on hold while I order that part from KHS-JBI-etc...it'll be here in about 2 weeks--plus a day or 2 to install it if we're not backed up" again--GTFO

 @Scotj009: lbs can't keep everything in stock. The internet has everything in stock.

 Some of my requests in the largest bike shop we have:
- Shimano 180mm XT center lock rotor? - No, only 160.
- Do you have maxxis dhf 27.5? - We don't have them at the moment and don't know when will. Probably somewhere in August.
- Do you have Shimano brake pads? - No, we have these shiny orange pads from our "own" brand.
- I need the concentrate from MucOff, it's listed on your site. - We don't have it, we only have the pre-mixed one.
- You're authorized Manitou spare parts supplier (they are not anymore), do you have the wiper seals for Mattoc? - We can order them, it would be 2 weeks.

At least I was able to get tubeless tape, which should come with 4 stickers according to the box, but someone just got them out, I guess. And a ceramic chain lube.

I do all the service and repairs on my own now. Working on the rims is the only thing I delegate to a local service, but not really satisfied with the quality, so I will try another service next time. It probably takes me 2-3 times more time to finish a job, but I think the result is better than what the LBS does.

 The shop I’ve been purchasing from for the last 20 years is now dead to me, recently they tried to charge me to install pedals that I just bought there (for well over online prices), my last suspension service they installed the damper bladder incorrectly and there was no damping, and the final straw was that on my first ride after a wheel true I had several spokes come un-done and they said it wasn’t their fault and charged me for another wheel true.

 @Scotj009:

The day that I was told that I needed to order headset spacers (by two(!) local shops) was the day that I realized it was pointless to even try the shop unless it was something completely trivial.

I personally think the current bike shop model is flawed. Pricing isn't competitive, the service I've received has been hit-or-miss, and stock usually sucks. Bike industry workers seem to be vastly underpaid compared to similar jobs in other markets and I think that is where the issue lies.

Reading through these comments, there seems to be a theme. Yet, everyone continues to spout off about supporting your LBS. I get that, but what exactly am I supporting?

I also realize there are some very good shops out there and some very good mechanics. My hat is off to you and I really hope you can keep doing what you do. The world needs more people like you so please don't take what I say as an insult.

 @scott-townes: ”If you're disappointed by the wait, you are part of the problem".

Could you define the 'problem'? I am having trouble understanding.

 @orientdave: I believe he's saying that the 'gotta have it now' culture is perpetuating the issue. For example, if you want a part, even a commonplace one, and the LBS doesn't have it you go online and order it. Now if you didn't 'need to have it now' you'd likely purchase from the LBS. Which means more business or them, more money to carry inventory for you, and much more likely that they have the items you're looking for in stock.

 Went to the LBS yesterday to get a 20mm, 160 to 180 adapter for Shimano brakes. Came home disappointed. So I got online and purchased the adapter and new saddle (gotta get that free shipping!) It will be here on Monday.
Seems like the LBS part of the industry is ready for a new business model. If you find yourself shaking a fist at Amazon in 2020, you've already lost.

 @Shinkers: as a guy who worked in a shop for 6 years I can attest that pay isn’t great. But they only way pay could be better is if margined were higher and unfortunately because of online sales undercutting the margines have never been lower and they are honestly approaching a level that is unsustainable for the brick and mortar bike shops to survive

 The one point missing here especially with the ‘got to have it now’ bit is hassle and time. I am a busy person. I dont want to drive into town, queuing, sitting at lights, etc. Drive round. Find a space. Walk to the meter. Find the pay app has deleted itself off my phone. Walk to the shop. Queue in shop. Be told it will be ordered. Wait three days. Chase up. Miss ride. Miss another ride. Call from shop whilst taking a crap. Repeat all above.
Or. Order from toilet. Arrives in 48 hrs.
No brainer. Its not a ‘have it now culture’. Its ‘i have a life’ culture.

 True that.

My primary beef with my ex-LBS (I switched shops) was that they wouldn't shop around for faster delivery time or better prices on parts they had to order.

While I can understand (and generally agree with) the impulse not to help Jeff Bezos become a squillionaire, you owe it to your customers to do some leg work to get ordered product in either quickly or at a competitive price.

Case in point, one of my bikes needed a new bb and some thread cleanup work done on the bb shell. Not work I'm comfortable doing myself, but it didn't justify the shop ordering the replacement bb directly from the manufacturer and having it delivered by a turtle who stopped walking every 20 minutes to polish his shell with CBD oil.

 A lot of online retailers don't stock things either. Instead they order it from a warehouse, it arrives to their shop in 2-3 days, then they ship it to you. I got to say that I'm fortunate to have 2 great shops nearby that offer great customer service and have realistic prices on parts. Ordered a Pike air shaft that came in 2 days for the same price as online that would've taken 5 days to get to me. These are the guys that are going to survive. The other shop serviced my damper cartridge for 40 bucks. Not a bad deal for what would take me an hour's worth of work.

 The only plus about my shop is they will price match any online price and get me the part in a couple days. Vs waiting over a week from jenson

 @orientdave: Totally. I find if your just one product iteration behind my local shops in the north shore don't carry it. I guess part of the blame could also go to the industry that takes on an apple upgrade approach.

 @jj12jj: I got a new bike built up for my wife and the shop put on a 142 rear hub and wheel instead of the boost 148 that the frame required. Then said there was no way they did that. Ended up going to another shop and building up a brand new wheel.

 @chaynech1: How do they figure that? do they think that you went and switched the wheel with one that looked Exactly The Same but with a hub that was 6mm smaller just to piss them off? they need to accept that they made a mistake.

 Schadenfreude: bike shop employees taking joy in the online ordering of incorrect parts by customers who then try to get their shop to tell them what they actually should have ordered or even to trade them for what they need...

 That’s a shame. My local, Kinetic Cycles in Coquitlam, Canada is a candy store!

 BIKE SHOP OWNERS:

My bike shop gives me a QBP login, and anyone has access to BTI.

I pick what I want, know if it's in stock, send an e-mail, and it's at the shop the next week. A 30% member discount. I get to say hi and shop local.

 My local LBS actually sucks. Basically he only sells fat ebikes to old people and repairs shitty bikes that have been left outside all year. Don't bother going there if you need your suspension fork or shock serviced, he wouldn't know what to do.

He told me last year he wasn't up with these new 20mm and 150mm hubs. The look on his face when I told him those hub standards have been around for at least 20 years was priceless.

I literally go to the other side of town just to get that one small thing if I need it immediately. Otherwise internet 99% of the time. That includes buying from the across town bike shops online store.

 And you can return it, can’t do that with special orders from LBS. i order parts i know i want from my LBS though. Can’t beat having a good mechanic with mutual respect

 @InfraRed: To be fair, you’re in Bulgaria. If I wanted to get a singlet, hand chalk, 500 lbs of weight plates, and floor mats, I’d have to order them, whereas I assume those items are available in every corner store in Bulgaria.

 @scott-townes: "That's not reality, get with the program"

But that is the new reality. Maybe it's you that need to get with the program

 Precisely what I was going to say. Didn’t figure I was alone.

 Lived in an area with a lot of shitty shops, the kind that think its OK to bleed brakes and get DOT fluid on the new pads and rotors that they just sold you. Take the time to support local when they are worth it so the shops that are worth it can be there. They are the gateway to new riders, and new riders keep this past time growing, If your local shop sucks, I get it. I dealt with that for years. Happy to live somewhere where the local shops are actually knowledgeable. Happy to have the option to get parts, bikes, or service when I need it instead of having to spend all my days off doing it myself just because I want it done right.

 @MikeAzBS: who the f*ck asks for a exo?

 @n1ck: that's actually pretty cool that they do that. Good on them for doing so.

 Very few shops have a clue. Parts and bikes no one wants, with an attitude. When you do find a good shop, its pure gold.

 I have one good shop within 50mi. One. They follow trends, and understand cyclists. They have minions, disc brake pads, relevant bikes, gear based on the season and local tracks, and can solve repair issues I can’t. But most of all - no attitude.

 @scott-townes: Um, let's be F-ing realistic, ok? I work my ass off to earn money, yes just like the folks at LBS's (I get that). However, if you think I am going to spend extra coin, gas and what ever other mark up gets tossed in there, you're crazy. If I can cut out the middle man, get the product cheaper and sometimes quicker, then why not? Why not, why should I pay extra for no reason? Service, sure, i'll even drop a good tip for good service. Reality? Reality is Amazon, world wide cyclery or whatever other online retailer there is that they can offer free fast shipping and at a lower cost right to my door. Seriously, what internet-less reality world are some living in?

 @viatch: freedom seems to be a sensitive word here.

 @schulte1400: It's about having a great local shop. I don't mind that mine doesn't have some things in stock because I text, email or call and it's there or delivered to me the next day.

 @Scotj009: it was the same before internet

 @scott-townes: thank god some people have some respect for these timescales. I loved my time in the industry, and although I'm guilty of occasionally getting bits online, now, more than ever I'm driven to purchase locally if I can afford it, simply because a bit of forward thinking an preperation for a job, and the more you visit. You get the bits you want at a decent price. I'd rather my lbs MATCH an online price and make a few quid. Than give the online retailer my cash. You either love or hate the local, or imho are too impatient/stubborn to shop there. Support them where you CAN, and keep someone in a job and feeding their family and gaining a few friends along the way.

 @viatch: The Bike Shop?

 @leifgren: so i guess the reason so many fellow americans complain about stock is that all the different calibre ammunition the lbs stocks takes away room for bike parts?

 the only reason to pay premium prices (+100-200% for a chain) at the local shops today would be to get the parts in time. usually they don’t even know what part I am talking about if I am asking for eg. an xtr cassette spacer (you know, the little plastic ring eliminating the cracking which was not part of the early retail packages).

I would love to have a local shop / garage / cafe where I can chat with mechanics and insiders, drink coffee, drool over and at some point buy blink parts, learn from couriers and racers which parts last and maybe even arrange rides, like back in the 90ies. Today this place is the internet, except for a few raphaish shops who try to recreate a similar experience, maybe a bit too hipster/poser/fake though...

 I order things online but i also have it installed at my LBS if it’s above my skill level(Which is a lot of the time LOL). So they still get my business no matter what.

 @orientdave: 100% agree. Recently I went to three shops in a day to find one minor component and none of them had it despite 1 telling me they did over the phone.
A few months ago I got a pair of bike shorts as a gift from a local shop but then had to exchange sizes. It took them 3 months to get the size I wanted and I had to constantly call and check in on them.
Shops cannot compete with online shopping that's just a fact. Shops, especially the small ones, need to stop focusing on retail dollars and focus what they are good at and can make money on and that is service. Hire more mechanics, shorten their turn around time and tell that kid to ship his new Lyric to the shop he just bought off Jenson so they can install it on his YT.

 @MrNC: this is awesome but unfortunately I think a lot of people believe they will get shit from their lbs if they did this and that shouldn't be the case. Shops should welcome folks like you with open arms.

 @MikeAzBS: You’re right. Your LBS needs to work on their stock. I run a small shop and we keep all of those parts in stock, except for the Transfer, but we keep the OneUp 150 31.6 in stock, so we at least have a reasonable substitute on hand.

 @InfraRed: The minions are totally out of stock thanks to covid supply issues

 @jj12jj: We do stuff like that because everyone buys online, yet wants prices to be cheaper! Charging for all services is the only way we can make money!!!

 @steviestokes: When you put it like that, it is more palatable. If my LBS would match online pricing, I'd be more inclined to buy there. It is annoying when you head in to the shop to pick up a pretty standard part...i.e. SRAM or Shimano this or that and they tell you they can order it... At that point, I usually tell them I can do the same. Essentially they are doing my job with more hassle - leave my bike at the shop, wait 10 days for the part to come in, install it, wait for me to call them to find out when my bike will be ready, get told the part ordered was the wrong one. Repeat the process, finally get bike back and pay $$$ for parts+labor...

 Well ya, bot good biz to just sit on inventory

 Or LBS says: they can get it “in 3 days”, proceed to take your money....... and then 14-16 days later -they finally call you about your part arriving.

Too often making promises they can’t keep is a big problem really.

 @MrNC: but you surely are not on the priority list

 @jonlees: The deal is you buy I store install is included. If it was something complex (brakes with internal routing) or something cheap (a tube) I would be less pissed off. When I pay you $200 for pedals you can take the 30s to install. I would usually do it myself but was on the way to the trailhead and didn’t have an 8mm. Hell if the shop had offered to let me borrow an Allen key for 30s I would have been satisfied

 @chaynech1: I had them build a wheel with the wrong size rim, that one I was fine with though because the rebuilt it same day, no extra cost, and taped it for a tubeless setup. Overall an appropriate way to handle a mistake

 @tbubier: I’ve shown up with a box from Chain Reaction Cycles and asked them to install it and they don’t mind. They know what the game is like now in this day and age, might as well accept it and ride the wave. They’ll still get business regardless.

 @eyeslide: I’m never one of those “I need this installed yesterday” types I come in with what I need done and the LBS gives me a week at most and I get call saying it’s done, usually before the week is up. I ain’t tryna jump the line or anything, First in, first out.

 @jj12jj: We cant let people borrow tools in case someone hurts themselves (I know) and we get a lawsuit

 @orientdave: " I am not their demographic." is the biggest issue I have encountered as a mountain biker. If you go to a bike shop in the city or even a small town like mine, they are not Mountain bike oriented. If you go to a Bike Shop in a very popular MTB region or near a Down Hill park then I can find what I am looking for. As you say, I do try to purchase consumables and whatever my LBS has that I need ie my bike carrier, but sometimes I just wish it were more.

 @Thirty3: hahaha yeah well I'm not gonna argue with your mindset.

 @Shinkers: I think there is a vast scale of shops and some aren't with the program.

I would have no issue with supplying your headset spacers or competitive pricing or service. I am with the program. Some people just aren't.

The pay is down to the lack of business. You could blame the consumer but that's small minded and arrogant. The issue is with the industry.

You are right about the support thing.

No insult taken! I realise there's a vast world out there with varying degrees of consumer support.

 @scott-townes: “ That's not reality, get with the program. If you're disappointed by the wait, you are part of the problem and you need to reevaluate what's important in your life.”

Really? I’m not part of the problem, I’m the customer. A local bike shop, or an online retailer need to provide me something I cannot get anywhere else, whether that means personalized service, low price, expertise, quick delivery, etc. If they can’t provide that “something”, then they are their own problem. I am not responsible to provide anyone my business, they must earn it. You, my friend, are the problem; your position sounds like one of entitlement and arrogance. I know what is important in MY life and I don’t need you to tell me what it is!

FYI, I hate Amazon, but sometimes you have no choice, as the item you need cannot be purchased anywhere else.

 @orientdave: Shops not having such a common consumable is... weird. All the shops near where I live always have enough consumables in stock to overhaul dozens of bikes, unless you need something weird, like a 11-46 9spd cassette. But chains, tires, brake pads, chainrings, etc.... that stuff is good

 @MikeAzBS: We stock all of those things at our shop.

 There's lots of stuff that I find only has a marginal discount. Now that CRC is no longer less than wholesale their prices (except for blowout stuff) isn't much cheaper than retail. TBS can have some good deals but has a very limited selection.

In the last year I've bought a Bomber Z1 fork, Magura mt5 brakes, and a rear wheel built to the spec I want and I don't think I could have gotten any of those things cheaper online. I'm lucky to have an amazing shop that has amazing product knowledge and puts out perfect work. I

To your point, if people at a shop are rude or they mess up service work I'll just buy online and deal with it myself.

 "Also basically every single local shop I have gone to seems to have issues in quality of their mechanic's work."

This! Now I buy everything online (unless it's urgent) and pay a dedicated mechanic to do any work I can't.

 Mechanic works top notch at my local shop, guess thats because its Danny Harts mechanics shop

 @friendlyfoe: Try the German online shops. They often have great deals on parts, especially the ones that are "made in Germany" (Schwalbe, Magura, etc.). Before the embargo, they also sold Shimano and SRAM for -30-50% the amount you paid locally, but there's now a ban for selling outside their territory (Europe, in that case). Anyway, if you take the time to look around, there's always good deals to be made, even with LBS who sell online.

 @SvenNorske: I am one of those mechanics and that may be the dumbest and rudest things I have seen here. Many mechanics are hourly but during rush season we are slammed. Just for today I had an 8 hour workday.. had 5 scheduled tunes (our tunes take between 45min to 1 hour). I had 37 phone calls (17 if we had bikes and why they can't find any), 9 flats, 2 customers who couldn't take their wheels off, 3 who need bikes taken out of their cars, one guy who demanded that i explain to him why his Promax brakes return slow, 2 not sealing tubeless tires, 1 custom build quote, 3 warranty follow-ups, my landlord asking me about Roof leaks, 1 garmin computer reset, 2 cleats adjustments, one Pelton customer needing to know why delta cleats are hard to find in shops and why our shoes are different than Pelotons and 1 kid that calls me every three days about how much is some bike repair if his mom buys the part on amazon....every three days its a different repair (he has been calling me for 4 weeks now). Do you know when I ate lunch? 8:30pm.
every ahole that walks through the door needs it by tommorow, everything happened just riding along and everything that is massively worn must have just worn because it was new last week. The industry is lacking mechanics and the pay is atrocious....some areas that are great for riding fare better. I have had tons of friends move because if they are going to work in a shop and get paid shit they may as well live somewhere where they can ride 24/7. Most places aren't that lucky. I have been doing this for 23 years and this may be my last.
As far as your comment on commission and mechanics speed, here is how a repair can spiral. Guy brings in his bike, needs shifting and frame creaks...gets written up as checkover and shift adjustment. I look at the ticket and expect 30 min of work. I adjust shifting...hanger is bent...takes 10 min longer. I then check frame, notice a slight rock in linkage, call the guy and ask when he replaced bearings and such. Figure out he never serviced his linkage, explain it may be more serious...cost more....he complains about cost. I hang up and take apart frame....turns out bearing is worn and wore a groove in linkage bolt....needs to be replaced. That 30 min job became 1.5 hours of calling/cleaning/fixing/chasing problems and I get to charge him a little bit more for three times my expected time. He is annoyed that it cost more but I know it will last and I won't see him after the weekend complaining the noise is back. Do you know how that would go down if I worked on commission.....i would just spray and soak everything in grease to shut it up and move on. More bikes out the door means more money....how do I know this? I worked with guys from places like performance where when the manager cracked the whip they shoveled shit. No pride, no interest...by the unit means money then I don't care. Dont believe me? Every Walmart pays bike assemblers by the unit.....how many of those leave with backwards forks? As it stands, I am 37....guys from 30 and older are the last large group of good mechanics. Many of us have a ba or masters but we remained in the industry because we loved it. What kid now is going to finish school with a shit ton of debt and work at a shop? That leaves people who work trades and the rest. Any trade pays better than the bike industry so you would have to be dumb to work on bikes instead of an actual trade. The rest boils down to dropouts/people that can't hold steady jobs and some that can afford to work for nothing (kid living at home/guy with dui/ etc..). Not a great pool of potential employees. I am done.

 @lukeproofman: lol he wasn't attacking you personally. Notice the "I'm guessing" and "I'm only speculating".

From a service delivery view that could apply to any industry, when you have huge swings in demand throughout the year it's impossible to employ enough people to accommodate peak demand through the entire year. You have to be somewhere in the middle and accept that there will be more work than your business can process during the peak, hence the 4 week backlog in the first few months of riding season.

Anyone who's a serious mountain biker gets all of their shit done in the spring before it gets busy. This is also why it's worth building a relationship with a good local shop if you think you might ever need help with anything. If you're a good customer and you trash something on your bike most shops will find a way to squeeze you in.

 I think the only real way for bike shops to survive is from charging high markups to the very few people willing/able to pay those prices. I don’t feel guilty about supporting more efficient businesses that provide what I need, especially after working at a shop and hearing how horribly the employees talk about how dumb the customers are because they don’t know much about bikes. Most bike shop employees are spoiled little bike-nerds who have dorked out about bikes since there early teen years and don’t know how to do, or talk about anything except bikes, then they HAVE TO work in a bike shop because they have no other skills...working on “crappy“ $1,000 new bikes and making repairs for the non-cyclists that bought them...

 @lukeproofman: I stopped reading after a complaint that starts with I had an 8 hour workday.

 @RonSauce: lol! Right. The real question is why did he leave work 3 hours early?

 @lukeproofman: I feel ya bud, and that's a normal goddamn day!

 @friendlyfoe: I had a 8 hour workday because I work 7 days a week and I can't come in super early and leave super late because even though the doors are locked and security gate is shut...someone is always banging on the door, so getting ahead on repairs is impossible....so instead I work 7 days a week 5 days we are open 8 hours, 2 5 hours and i am there everyday

 @lukeproofman: yaaaasss get em! Still love the job tho

 @unrooted: first I never spoke bad about customers, some people are easy to work, with some aren't, and some are terrible thats the nature of the beast. Like I said before, I have 2 degrees, been doing this 23 years since I was 14 working for cash cleaning repair bikes at my local schwinn shop. I have many skills and options for working elsewhere hence why I will probably close the shop at the end of this year. Working in the bike industry is hard, wages haven't increased at all in 20 years+ the market has changed dramatically and the internet has muddied the waters heavily. There are many aspects of the business that are great. I love seeing the transformation that riding a bike can create in people. I have worked with cancer survivors, amputees, recoveries you name it. But I am still a person and I have a family that I need to provide for. My frustration with the comment made was simple, because it basically was "hey shops are backed up because mechanics are lazy and pampered if we made them hustle like uber drivers that would teach them a lesson and shit would get done". How is that working for Uber? I will put in simpler terms...do you want to live in a society where you come.to my shop and I work to help you enjoy the thing I am passionate about and treat me with respect. Or a society where you come to my shop and my simple mechanic ass fixes your bike because what else am I going to do. After which you leave and I go what a as@#$ole I hope he eats shit. Which world do you prefer? Which world will spread the love of riding? Thats my dilemma....i have lived aspiring for the first but at the end of the day I feel like the second.

 @RonSauce: i took it to mean that he only had 8 hours to fit in all the following stuff eg not a huge amount of time to get all this done.

 @friendlyfoe: I understand your point but his comment specifically attacked bike shop mechanics as not working hard because they are hourly. If they changed to commision it would put a fire under their ass. Back logs happen during the summer. Most shops are short of mechanics and its only getting worse.

 @unrooted: actually that era of shop employees is over. Most shop employees now are high school or college kids that change every year once they age up or former bike mechanics trying to open their own shops. I work on everything from 20k pinarellos for hedge fund managers doing 4 Ironmans to 50 year old dance studio employees who ride a garbage find bike everyday to save on owning a car so they can buy a house. Cycling isn't just strava segments and Instagram. Some people its life and others how they measure their lives. I am not going to defend every lbs out there...lots of them suck, owners only care about the bottom line, the beast employees leave because of better opportunities, markets change, brands change, costs change (some as simple as a rent increase can make a cool shop that stocks everything become barren because only things that sell in volume can sit on the shelf). For guys like me it sucks because I hear f#$$ bike shops I buy everything online more than I hear thanks for taking care of me. That's what depresses you in the end.

 @Ironmonsoon602: some days you laugh, some days you sit in back and have a beer before riding home, some you rush home so the dog locks your face and you smile.

 @wolfsberg: 1. Landlord is cool and he is bike guy and he loves to hang out but that takes time out of the day.
2. I agree about explaining the work but here is a big problem with modern mtbs. Lots of guys who got into this sport did it when bikes were cheaper and simpler. It gets difficult because that guy bought that frame being sold on the fact that it has sealed bearing so its maintenance free, so when you tell him his 1 year bike has worn bearing he doesn't believe you, then you have to show him and explain and etc... nowadays just telling him his bearing are worn it will cost more is like telling him I offer an undercoating for an extra charge. Look at this comment section its filled with guys who have been or have felt ripped off by shops...making him understand means he doesn't think I am pulling the wool over his eyes. That is a must nowadays.....but it takes.....time.

 @wolfsberg: sorry 3. I can't check the hanger and do flats and answer calls and take repairs in. On slammed days, stuff comes in an alarming rate, its just two of us at the shop, repairs getting dropped off are quickly examined, labeled, tagged and next thing gets done. Slow days, i have time for that.

 @rabidmonkfish: bingo, i am usually there hour early and leave 30-90 min late...8 hours is shop open time

 @lukeproofman: PREACH! Right there with you bro.

 @SvenNorske: as someone who was a contracted, 1099, "paid by commission" mechanic... that is not who you want working on your bike.

 @lukeproofman: Yes we definitely need a change. It is really hard trying to make it work though. I used to work for CycleSurgery for 3 years before they went bankrupt. We were one of the few ones that price matched. but the result was every item was sold at a loss. Literally everything from brake pads to helmets. That meant the only way they can make money is to sell bike so naturally we had less and less parts in stock. They tried pushing clothing but they did not sell full price so again had to sell clothing at a loss. It got so bad that I was taken out of the workshop only to sell bikes pdi on the shopfloor and say no to services. Clearly not a good business model.

That being said the customer base changed in the past 10 years. Customer service and lead time is the most important obviously, but nowdays people want a shopping experience as well since they took their own time to drive to you (you see sofas and coffee machines popping up in a few bike shops now). Also If it is not ready next day it is no good... Most bike shops cannot manage this yet.

Sometimes customers dont understand how many different bikes and people are out there. I assume most commenters are really in to their riding and know a lot about bikes. You check your chain regularly for wear, you take the shock out and check to see if there is play in the frame, you check your brake pads and headset every 2-3 months..etc.....Most people who go to your lbs are not like that. they have 2-5 year old bikes which have never seen a mechanic or gotten any attention at home. They are not familiar with concepts like 50 hour lower service, yearly suspension service, annual (in the UK you need it) pivot bearing replacement and so on. They just bought a bike online because it was on sale and had good review. There are so many bikes out there nowdays which means there is always something new and different on every frame. eg. SC frames are so easy to work on bearings are in the links, you pop them out and full bearing replacement done in 30min. YT capra different story. Cube stereo, transition patrol different again. I had a 3 year old cube in a few weeks ago with double 688 bearings on the seatstays, never replaced before, extremely stuck. puller did not work. managed to remove it with punch and some heat at the end, but just these 4 bearings took 45 minutes of fiddling. standards, bearing sizes, types change every year on a lot of brands, hard to keep track All I am saying is customers should be a bit more patient with us and there should be straightforward communication from both sides.

I can only speak for myself, but I think one of the most important aspect of my job is to help customers understand what went down during their repair, educate them about maintenance they can do at home so they can avoid issues in the future...So what I started doing for example is to send them pictures during service or asked them if I can post before and after pictures on insta, send them links about maintenance videos, whatever. The goal is to get people engaged with the shop and educate each other learn from each other.

I have worked in several bike shops before and even at the very best shop which made profit regularly, service has been the only part of the business where profit was almost always zero or a loss. there are 3-4 sales people for every bike mechanic. Price matching means loosing money....Your lbs has to sell bikes to stay afloat especially if it is an mtb only shop. That is a fact and that is why most of them hate on DC brands. I am open to ideas on how to change that. Service only will never work, unless customers are willing to pay more.

any of you customers have any suggestions, please post a reply!

 @lukeproofman: I'm an owner/operator of small service based shop in a popular mtn bike town. This sounds just like my day. Do you ever hear this?... "A week to bleed brakes? It looked really easy and fast in the youtube video."
People love to complain about there LBS on the internet but the reality is that bikes are becoming more and more complex and someone is going to have to fix them. My business philosophy is charge a fair price for parts and full price for labor. Never discount labor. If you are a professional and competent mechanic there will always be broken bikes coming through the door.
Just like in the automotive world, you can buy all the parts online and do the work yourself but most people have other things they would rather do than pull apart their fork in their garage on their day off. Same reason I go to the Jiffy Lube to get my oil changed. It's just easier to pay someone than use up my free time doing it.
I believe the future of the bike shop is small, owner based businesses, specializing in repair and service.

 @mosierman: we need a poll so we can finally learn whether it’s bike shop employees who hates customers more, or the reverse???

 @wolfsberg: man clearly you ain't in this line of work. Everything Luke is saying is dead accurate and then some. And I'm sure whatever line of work you're in, there are commensurate gripes. This just happens to be Pinkbike, the repository of bike related shit-talking and griping and you're getting top notch gripes from a dude obviously on the front line. Now cue your response telling me I don't know the half of it, and all the things us miserable bastards at shops are getting wrong, how the internet rebuilt your damper, yadda yadda.

 @friendlyfoe: what shop are you going to?

 @alpha-bio: this and Luke's comment is so accurate. I loved, LOVED my 7 years in the shop full time (2 years before that as Saturday boy) and that's why I still tinker with people's bikes when I can now. I've built up a range of specialist tools and can now do more and more. But the sheer way that a job can run away with time is so understated. You really MUST invest your time in telling the customer the truth and trying to show them that you arnt pulling the wool over their eyes, just so that this now new, or old customer knows they arnt being taken for a ride. I used to love being a jack of all trades in the shop, but it can get so personal when you sell a bike (a full sus MTB for instance, or a 2-3K road bike) and remind them to keep it clean and lubricated and pop in for checks.. And then you don't see that persons bike (they may well pop in for bits and a socialise, depending on the individual) for a good year of hard riding. Then you see that they haven't changed the pads, so pistons are damaged, they've crashed (inevitably) and given the mech a twang, bending hanger or mech or both, or not checked or brought in to check the linkage and bits are loose or worn, and on the roadbike, the only thing they've done is keep tyres pumped (if you are lucky) and oil the chain for 3,000miles and the groupset is so black with tar-like oil and grease that the rings, chain, cassette and jockey wheels all need replacing.. That, hurts personal, because SOME, and only some, customers will not believe you when you tell them that all that's happened in a year and its going to cost X amount to clean it, service it, replace this, straighten this, test that... And because YOU sold the bike, they sometimes aim the guilt at you like the bike should be able to withstand this 'use'. It's horrible to see the lack of respect for the boys on the spanners. I used to work so, so hard to have great customer service and to be able to back it up with honest knowledge and fair advice and be able to fix anything.. But the money for these skills just isn't reflected in the monthly pay.. Unless you do have a tidy boss who values your time (I managed to negotiate a fair pay towards the end of my time at the shop) but by then, it was time to move on and try to earn better. Big respect to the shop owners and mechanics who slave at it.. But there are some feckless idiots who work at/own shops too though.

 @friendlyfoe: I haven't visited TBS is some time as the new Calgary Cycle on Bow is very close to where I live. The service has been great there, super friendly and the mechanics did a great job on my Firebird build.
Pre-covid I found their selection to be great; since the outbreak BS it seems like they are having a hard time keeping up with all the new found bikers. As expected the prices are substantially higher than online

 Came here to say the same.

 Completely agree with this. A large proportion of my riding group have never wrenched their own rides. With the plethora of instructional videos or articles out there on the Web, you can pretty much learn any bike related repair or replace.

 especially with the cost some shops charge for certain jobs! Most times it’s cheaper to buy the tool needed to do whatever task yourself and at the end of it you got a tool free of charge basically! From there on, free!

 @Dropthedebt: apart from a custom suspension tune, then you probably need some training.

 Agreed, this is something I'm trying to learn myself - there's nothing more satisfying than successfully doing a certain repair or replacement for the first time. That being said, I have kids and don't always have the time to troubleshoot and do it myself. If I have free time, I want to spend it riding or doing house projects that are more expensive than bike work. I have more money than time so sometimes I'd rather just pay someone to do it right and not have to worry about it for a year.

 ????

 And most importantly, you learn how to fix stuff so you can do it out on the trail if needed instead of just staring at it. Ok maybe equally as important, you also can give it a once over as often as you'd like, reducing the chance of something going wrong on the trail. Kinda like a car. Do the maintenance and repair work yourself and you're better prepared for when the time comes that you HAVE to do it yourself.

 100% agree. However, there are still things I'd rather let the shop take care of, like damper service. I just don't want to faf around with fluid spilling everywhere bleeding my dampers.

Still, I completely redid my home shop to make my life easier for wrenching at home. For years I've been dealing my tools living in random places. Now I have a proper shop with bench tops and storage.

That's my idea of a man cave.

 Hell yeah. Self-reliance is learned. Certainly, working on some things you own may be a risk not worth taking, but your bike is not one of them. Working on bikes is therapeutic and brings you closer to the sport you love. There's nothing like getting your bike dialed, hitting the trails, and feeling like everything is feeling oh so good.

Repair Manifesto: scx2.b-cdn.net/gfx/news/2019/2-howarepairec.jpg

Edit: Welp, I don't know how to share a link here.

 I try to do my repairs by myself but I will get the parts through my LBS even if they have to order them in. In the end, the parts cost very similar to ordering online. Even if there is a good deal online I will often end up paying more after factoring in shipping.

 Obviously I’m not anywhere nearly as amazing as everyone else here, but usually anytime I try a repair for the first time myself, it ends up costing more, because I break something else, or need a specialty tool, that my absurdly large toolbox doesn’t seem to have.

I have learned to do most things on my own though.

 Plus when you work on your own bike you know it's done right. My buddies are mostly (rightfully) disappointed with the quality of lbs mechanic work.

 Do it yourself if you’re a competent mechanic, have the right tools and have the time. It’s absolutely rewarding just like anything else you do yourself. Just know that it may take way more time and cost way more on the front end due to inexperience and/or mistakes. It’s all about how you want to spend your time.

 ... yes pinkbike I tend to spend 45 hours or more a week at my lbs.

 Unfortunately it is a business model that Boris & Co. will not allow me to pursue.

 @Ooofff: lol wat? First neither person above your response has an American flag. Second, weed in states like CO where its legal is f*cking gas my man.

 @Ooofff: where in the world do they have better weed than California???

 @unrooted: New Zealand.

 @streetkvnt-kvlt: We do? Sweet as!

 @streetkvnt-kvlt: It's not California weed. Some of the best outdoor grown flower in the world.

 @vandall: apples and oranges as the saying goes. I stopped smoking years ago but like to know what's going on haha...

 i find that in general, i trust my own, highly average mechanic skills more than the average shop mechanic. there are a few i know and trust, but ill only go to them if im doing something im really not comfortable with or dont own the tools for.

 My main reason for doing my own work is that when I get to the shop and ask when they can work on my bike the anser is usually 2 weeks. I don't want to be dependent on someone when I want to ride 2-3 times a week. I agree with not doing the damper service but I will be tempted to try it when I need it done.

 @GumptionZA: Same here, a moderate investment in tools and learning how to wrench pays off when your household has seven bikes to maintain!

 When your LBS charges extra because of the “hassle” of removing/installing a Hope crankset to replace bearings, then proceeds to put the crankset back together so the crank arms aren’t aligned and you have to take it apart and fix it yourself.. lose faith pretty quick, and that’s just one of many of my bad experiences. There are a few mechanics I trust but like someone else stated here, I too trust my average skills (with my degree in Google) over the common bike mechanic at a shop.

 @GumptionZA: Agree, and even then, the tools have to be outrageously expensive for me to not buy it. Headset press $75-$150, cost of a headset install: $40. Do it twice and the tool is paid for, no brainer. Most tools seem to be the cost of just a few services. Needless to say, my personal tool stash is getting pretty sweet.

 @nateisgrate: sounds like a cyclepath issue. I'll never to return to them at their Kelowna shop.

 Or even derailed and higher ground. It's amazing how everything is price gouged.

 @skiboot1: yup haven’t been back to derailed since they reinstalled my shock using a bolt with a head way smaller than it should have been, essentially bending the shock sex bolt so bad that I had to use a punch and about 50 good whacks to get it out. Good thing I tried to take the shock off before I went for a real ride otherwise my frame would have been wrecked and I have little confidence derailled would have paid for a new one considering they blamed me for providing the wrong bolt! That was after they installed the bushings in the wrong eyelets THREE times in a row and then proceeded to blame me EACH TIME for providing the wrong information or not being clear enough. Not to mention the fact that they treat you like a shmuck unless you bought your bike from them. Higher ground all the way, Super friendly staff and great mechanics always willing to lend a hand.

 @nateisgrate: I too have felt feeling the shops staff does not care about you unless you've bought a bike from them. I would love to name 1 shop in particular here in Nelson but I still live here so I won't. Not to mention they love to tell you how a $5,000 bike and the components just aren't good enough. *Hint hint* Maybe my ride isn't as sacred as your $8,000 ride.

 @skiboot1: don’t get me wrong Derailed is still a good shop with very capable mechanics and everyone makes mistakes. But not owning up to it and blaming the customer instead definitely gets old fast.

 @rcrocha: the last straw for me was when I had their "suspension expert" try to rebuild my Totem (a while ago).

First he couldn't find the right rebuild kit (30 secs on SRAM's site), then it took 2 weeks to get the kit and rebuild it. Result? Still broken. That was the day I learned how to rebuild my own suspension.

Considering what an LBS charges, I expect them to be competent. That kind of thing is inexcusable and I cringe thinking of how many other bikes these guys have "fixed".

 Most of the shops I know are doing pretty well - thanks to average commuter bikes, ebikes and clients who have no clue that they are being ripped off.

 In my area, there are lots of bike shops. They aren't pro mountain bike shops so I don't go there.

 @Gamsjaga: it’s at least rad that you live in a country so stoked on bikes...ours is stoked on eating...

 @Gamsjaga: Are they being ripped off though? Having run several shops, even with very high sales and great service turn around and industry leading profitability, most people are scraping by around 40k. And that is one of the best shops I've ever seen, and had the good fortune of working for.

 @kmg0: From a customer perspective definitely yes.

Let’s hear what you think about
- 30 to 40€ for a final service which consists of turning the handlebar and tightening two screws. Same shop sees service as an unnecessary hassle. Customers are called a*holes behind their backs when they come with warranty issues because they keep employees from making money (incentives)
- 30€ for a tire change (tire goes extra, premium product bought in the shop - inner tube reused)
- unasked change of perfectly working, near new shifting cables (pay for cables + work)
- nearly 900€ for a service on a not even one year old 8k€ premium bike. (shop charged more for servicing than it would have cost buying new parts)
- ... I could carry on for hours

Btw. all examples from different shops.

But my favorite story, which illustrates the service quality around here perfectly is someone buying a shiny expensive carbon bike but is not allowed to take it home immediately even though he wrenches a lot and tells the shop that he plans to change most parts. The shop has to make 100% sure everything is working - due to „quality standards and a service protocol“. Customer returns three days later, gets his bike, wants to ride off and nearly eats shit in front the shop. Someone forgot to put „tighten stem“ in the protocol ...

 Beat me to it, cheers!

 It's a shame that is basically dead in Australia, I'd love to cut the rubbish out from gumtree or fb mp!!

 @freeriderayward: my bro uses NSW MTB trading post on Facebook, seems to have a fair bit of movement.

 @dicky1080: Thanks for the tip bro, I'll give it a try.

 That seems like a very high price for a bearing swap, but to be fair, the shop may have been quoting a higher price to be on the safe side - it's better to have a customer be surprised that a repair cost less than expected rather than more. But you're right, most bike repairs can be done at home at a much lower cost.

 @mikekazimer: „... it's better to have a customer be surprised that a repair cost less than expected ...“ Really, did that ever happen to you or someone you know?

 @mikekazimer: somewhat agree with your point there. Its a business game but i think in this case a lower price would have attracted the customer, instead of driving them away. PPl do want to use there bike store but if someone had quoted me that i would have found my friend whos a mechanic too and paid them in beer

 You can buy the machined, fitted bearing press and removal tools, plus the bearings half of the cost of having the shop swap your bearings a single time. And the tools make it so incredibly simple. And that's aside from the big turn-around times at shops during the summer season. Yeah, buy some tools and get at it yourself.

 @mikekazimer: We're not talking about working on an exotic italian sports car here man lol. Its a bike. If a bike shop doesn't know how long or how much it'll take to repair, maybe theres bigger problems in the LBS industry. And bearings....3 hours?! A bearing press and 30 minutes it's done.

 your buddy probably sent his bike to a dentist or a surgeon maybe?

 Jesus I can't imagine the audacity of charging $95 an hour flat rate. OR that job taking 3 damn hours. This is coming from a shop service manager in Arizona. Burn that shit to the ground!

 @ChrisNJ: haha, you are clueless. It is apparent that you have never done a bearing swap before. Not many atleast. With seized and blown apart bearings in a difficult to access frame, yes it could easily take three hours. Its not the repairs that go as planned that take the most time, it's the unexpected issues that can arise. I can tell a customer that I normally charge about an hours work for frame bearings ($65), but sometimes issues come up and it could easily triple the time. I just don't know until I get in there.

 Funny, they said the same thing about you

 @codypup: hahaha, got em!

 Not just a London thing sadly. I live in Wellington, New Zealand and one of my mates went into one of our LBSs and talked to one of the guys there about building a bike from the frame up and the dude basically called him mechanically retarded for five minutes (we're teenagers) so that was a bike rude (though other times we've been there some of the other people have been a lot nicer and helpful). A different bike shop told me that my Giant trance was shit (it's not) and that even a Maori (the New Zealand native people) wouldn't want to steal it. I felt that comment was unnecessary and a shitty, racist stereotype. Luckily a new shop opened and they're not racist or condescending

 Agreed. I'm lucky to have an LBS that usually beats or at least price matches on top of providing amazing customer service and repair quality. That last bit is why I buy from them the majority of the time. Some brands they just don't carry, ok online it is. But there have been occasions where I didn't have the time or it just wasn't worth the cost of tools/lack of knowledge ect...to do something myself and having them around got me back on the trail sooner rather than later. Also, super thankful to have quality LBS' around when traveling and need a part/repair asap. Shout out to Pro Bike Supply, Poison Spider, Absolute Bikes and Fanatik!

 you seem to be lucky to have a good lbs around. not everyone has that luxury, no matter their age.

 Good call - that's been updated.

 @mikekazimer: I'm surprised pink bike isn't an option... I get most of my bikes and parts from the buy sell pages

 @scottlink: Bikes, yes the past two have been from PB

 Hah, most of the things I get from my LBS are $5 or less: cable ends, misc bolts, the occasional widget...

 I prefer a shop because it feels like a real life Pinkbike where kids who’ve been on the planet for a shorter period of time than I’ve been Mtn biking can explain the difference between shraeder and presta valves to me...

 That seems like the way to do it. We talk about our dream shop setup in the Pinkbike podcast that's coming out next week - mine would sell pie and donuts.

 @mikekazimer: my dream shop is one with a crazy good selection, really competitive prices and the ability to check competitors pricing on the spot, zero interaction with other people...and a loaded bong at arms reach...

 You can bring in a bike and leave with your bike the same day?! Forget the beer and food, give me the turnaround.

 @mikekazimer: Me too. I take my bike to the local Timmy Hortons to have her fixed.

 Same. If you LBS is good (shout out to U bikes in Boulder and WheatRidge Cyclery) they carry the small parts you need that would cost 2x online bc shipping. I try to combine those little one offs with general consumables like tubeless sealant, chains, fork main seals etc, stuff you won't get much cheaper online than in store so why not give the LBS the $s instead of Bazos?

 Best bike shop around. Very helpful staff

 Bro we get paid minimum wage and we're expected to do everything yesterday and sell stuf for cheaper than it's made. We also have a stock limit so we cant have brake pads for every brake ever on hand. sorry.

 More like once or twice a year if I forgot to order a set of brake pads...

 how does removing tokens influence pricing, inventory, atmosphere or socializing?

 @nhp890: you kidding me???.it has to do with everything. This is what's wrong with pinkbike....a BIKE shop took out my bottomless tokens and did not replace them and I'm downvoted. Then you come off with some BS about inventory. Maybe if they had a little more attention to detail they'd have a better inventory--atmosphere--etc.... Go troll somewhere else guy.

 @kymtb0420, pretty sure @nhp890 wasn't trolling - his point was that your issue was directly related to the quality of the service you received, which is one of the poll options.

 @mikekazimer: That was only one problem I had with the bike shop....Try allowing to choose more than 1 answer on a poll. It shouldn't be hard to put a "Check all that apply" You all forced me into 1 decision and I voiced I have a problem with everything about my local bike shop. Trolling or not....conceptually it's not hard to follow. I should also add...that when I brought it to their attention...I was told--well you really shouldn't ride your fork that stiff anyways--Well guy--It's a hardtail and I'm a dirtjumper---I'm also not 150 pounds. Keep your opinion to myself and set my bike back up THE EXACT WAY I DROPPED IT OFF.

 @kymtb0420: That is a very good point, if they really think it's set up wrong they should ask you whether or not you would like it tweaked in a friendly and helpful manner, not treating you like you don't know how you like you suspension set up.

 Ha ha, you started a business to have more free time! Let me know how that is working out. On a serious note, direct-to-consumer is nice but surely you are missing out on sales by not being offered and prominently displayed in local shops. Having your tires offered at a LBS makes them tangable to the customer. When dropping coin on an expensive tire I find that most customers either want what they know and are comfortable with or they want to see and feel a new tire.

 No-one taller than 1.5m?

 @Dropthedebt: Haha, yeah Bavarians - we are basically the equivalent to the weiner dog.

 I live in a medium sized town on the outskirts of a medium sized city but i'll still travel to the border of the next county for the only bike shop I would recommend, let alone trust with my bike.

 @Dropthedebt: no one taller or shorter I believe

 It would probably be more accurate to say that “85% of the issues you see arise in the form of a customer coming in for help after an online purchase are ‘due to the consumer purchasing the wrong part.’” I for one am not purchasing the wrong part 85% of the time. If that were true, online bike shops wouldn’t be so popular.

 Which will result in a slew of abused bikes in need of service for sale in the classifieds (because they bought a new bike instead of repairing), with extravagant (dishonest) claims like “works great” and “barely used.” Made possible by cheaper prices and our increasingly disposable culture. Ultimately it will hurt the used market even though there are some (cough) who are actually honest about what they’re selling. This will push bike shops even more to just sell a new bike instead of repairing that “old” one. We are not heading in a good direction. Since not everyone will learn to work on bikes, those who don’t need to learn to be OK w/ paying higher prices to get the work done right by trained mechanics. For the little work I can’t do, I thoroughly vet who will touch my bike before committing to service. Too many people with not enough training and experience calling themselves “mechanics.” We need to be OK paying higher prices for quality, people. Biking is more expensive than just the initial investment, and these aren’t Toyotas - they require regular maintenance or bad things happen.
This will be hard for the majority of bike owners who come to find that real bikes meant for regular use cost more than a couple $hundred when they are told that the work they need done costs more than the initial sticker price.

 @erikkellison: I tell customers, "Expect to pay about 5-10% the cost of the bike annually for service and parts." I find that that is a good rule of thumb.

Tune-up, tires, brake pads, cables/housing, suspension service every year. Most bikes in my area are mtn bikes in the 3-6k range

 Good idea, and your name is my third favorite food in the whole world

 I'm purely curious here, do you order everything online out of "self sufficiency" if you can call it that. Or because of price. If you're not "supporting" your local shop so they can stay there for emergency visits then they may go under? I don't necessarily think support is the right word Its just the one used. I work in an area where many shops have closed and the comments are always I can't get my emergency bits or I can't get that advice. I get it's easy and sometimes cheaper to order online and I don't necessarily think you should pay more at a shop but just intrigued on your comments on this. There must be a balance that can be struck and it's down to the shops to find that and "advertise" that. Obviously it depends on your area and the shop employees as to your opinion/situation on this. As with everything people make shops bad to deal with or work with.

 @Scotj009: i’d use the shop for amazing mechanical service even if that means some extra costs to me.. and it should be “amazing”, like factory quality, because “good” i can do myself.. sadly most shops i’ve visited did the job at around “average”.. most of the time i needed to tighet up or readjust things after i get the bike back.. and i am always leaving with a sense that i kind of payed for 100% of the service, but got about 90-95% and its not the best feeling

 @Scotj009: I'm mechanically very proficient and I'd rather buy tools than pay someone to do work. I have time in my evenings to work on my bike and my wife will hang out in the shop and talk to me and help while I do it.

If I lost the ability to pick up quick parts locally, I wouldn't cry, it just wouldn't be as convenient.

As GZMS says, nearly every time I've had a shop do work I've had to adjust it at home.

 Have you seen "O Brother, where art thou"?

- sounds like this place is a geographical anomaly, it's about two weeks away from everything"

 My lbs still selling a 5-bolt MRP chainguide from 90s

 @antoniorcdj: Really? that's scary. Before too long someone will but it as a collectors piece.

 Probably why most shops don't stock much inventory. Who wants to get stuck with high dollar items for years?

 That means they, like many dinosaur shops, don’t know how to discount last season’s stuff correctly. Those should be damn near free by now.

 Or to buy or try on a new helmet.

 Is that a shop name?

 Is that the Hub in Roseville?

 @PtDiddy: Or the Hub in Bellingham, WA

 @rosemarywheel: Yeah, I am thinking there are a few Hubs out there.

 @PtDiddy: The Hub in the article in Pisgah National Forrest, NC. www.thehubpisgah.com