RIP, Downhill BikesThe best of today's modern all-mountain and enduro race bikes are simply ridiculous. The kind of ridiculous that makes you question the laws of physics when talking about rigs like the Transition Patrol, Trek's Slash, Ibis' Mojo HD3, the Nomad, and a handful of others that climb and, more importantly for most of us, descend like someone turned gravity's power way up. Each of these bikes has their own strengths, of course, but the real advantage, so long as you're not troubling the likes of Graves, Rude, Jerome and company, is that they are far more versatile than a slacked-out downhill bike could ever dream of being. Relative to their travel and angles, many are far better climbers than they have any right being.
These all-mountain magic machines might not have the legs of something with 40mm less travel and a three-degree steeper head angle, but they can climb all day and then let you point yourself down things that don't even look rideable. I know you think you're hot shit on a DH bike, but 160mm is all you really need. Capable and fun, they've made it silly for the average rider to own anything with 200mm of travel. The modern all-mountain rig has finally killed the downhill bike.
Enduro ShmenduroHold up. Anyone who thinks that an all-mountain bike could ever make a 200mm travel monster redundant clearly hasn't had the chance to ride one on worthy terrain. We're talking about a specific tool for the job here, okay. You don't see surgeons digging into people with spoons, and you also don't see Josh Bryceland racing World Cups on a Nomad. Sure, the Nomad ain't no spoon, but it might as well be on a Sunday afternoon in Europe when those beeps go off in the start hut. Get some steam behind you when you're on a Session, V10, Demo, or a Wilson, and the thought of pedaling an all-mountain bike up anything might not seem like how you want to spend your weekend.
Yes, the only elevation a downhill bike usually gains is when you lift it up to put it in the back of your truck, but the feeling of near endless traction and suspension that practically encourages flat landings is something that can't be beaten. Simply put, riding a downhill bike on proper terrain makes you feel like a rockstar, and there's no way that a bike with a lot less travel and steeper angles is ever going to replicate that.
Speed: variable - DH faster
Skill level: constant
Experienced Fun: relative/personal
Tree hardness: constant
1) Pietermaritzburg is questionable to many as a DH course.
2) Jared said he rode his Enduro bike because he'd been riding it all year and didn't see a reason to change.
I'm willing to bet however that he would've ridden something else at Val di Sol or Andora.
If you're a bike company, how small is the number of DH bikes you sell now, especially in relation to your other bikes? At what point do you stop breaking even on R&D? I can think of a few brands that don't bother with offering a DH bike in their lineup.
For me, renting a bike make a whole lot more sense than owning one. but until 2012, all I had was DH bikes. Because you still needed something that big to have fun on the gnarlier local trails.
As less & less trails merit a DH bike, at what point does the whole thing collapse on itself? At what point do brands stop sponsoring race teams because DH bikes aren't even working as a halo product anymore?
I don't know. but it's interesting to think about.
Feel free to discuss and down vote
The 2" lost in rear travel is nowhere as big a deal as moving up from say a pike/36 to a Fox40.
@ninjatarian, I encourage you to do so. He will tell you what @Nobble just said
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68
XC or Trail 100-140mm
"Enduro" or Freeride 150-160mm
Downhill 180-220mm
Sure you could go for road bikes and in betweens, hardtail and CX bikes, for me having a bike in each of the categories settles my thirst and satisfies and trail in the continent.
the 29er on trail days is much more enjoyable to ride, and the DH bike is consistantly the one that puts a smile on my face every time i touch it. between the travel and the Minions, it lets me attack like i never did previously. as long as my knees and bones can handle it, i'll always have a DH bike and look to push those skills. its the best.
That's almost as stupid as saying DH bikes are dead. Good grief.
Now look at MTB. are people buying Enduros because of Demos? Not really. They're buying Enduros because enduros are good bikes. Spec can't keep the demo around as a halo product, it has to stand on it's own. considering how much R&D went into the latest one, how many do you think they have to sell to recoup those expenses? If they don't, when it comes time to develop a new one, do they put the money in, or do they pull a Lapierre & exit DH WC?
Dh bikes are not exactly "here" to stay, they are to stay and flourish as rental sleds at the bike parks. Off course they will also stay in hands of people who are very practical and truly riding the gnar (some connesseurs as well) As capable as Enduro bikes are, they are fragile. Unless you put DH tyres and DH worthy rims on them which in most cases negates the purpose. I ride in terrain that perfectly justifies use of trendy 125 bikes. But I got one In 2013 and just sold it because all I did through those 3 years was to bulk it up.
If I'd live close to the lifts I'd totaly have a dh frame with coils, beefy rims and 2 ply tyres with DH tube on the rear.
So big respect to those who can and dare to use them
Everybody needs to buy DH bikes based upon this logic!
Plus, to make the best bicycle, or close to it, you don't need to pour millions into the manufacturing process. Bikes are much simpler. Even at $20k, a handful of rich guys will still buy the sweetest bike. The difference between an f1 car and a street car, or even a race prepped track car (e.g. lotus elise) is monumental, as is the price increase. Not so much for bikes.
a) it's not worth much, and
b) it's a hell of a lot of fun at bike parks!
F1 cars and MotoGP bikes OTOH aren't for the faint of heart. Watching Richard Hammond (who is actually a pretty good driver) try to drive one and make a fool of himself really puts a point on how a noob isn't going to just get in one and start knocking off laps, however slow.
AND IT'S STILL FASTER THAN ME!
Just buy a new or newer used frame and put your existing crap on it! It's the geo of newer bikes that makes more of a diff than anything.
The choice of using a Troy was a good one. If all you have to worry about is scrubbing jumps and carrying speed through the berms than not having a DH suspension soaking up energy is a good thing!
We haven't factored in trail difficulty and rider comfort. A newb isn't going to hit something that's uncomfortable for him or her (we hope), but on a tech green or blue trail a big bike with all of that soft squish (unless you got on Aaron Gwins bike) can increase the comfort level big time. Enough for them to have faith in the bike doing what it can do.
That doesn't mean they couldn't do it on a 165mm or 140mm bike, but it's hard for a rider that hasn't accepted what the bike can do before he or she believes they can hit it on something less than a pillowy DH bike.
So I tried something smaller. It sucked. I bottomed out all the time, I dinged rims in rock gardens, I slid round corners I usually railed. I had to brake more. It was kinda fun, but it was also slow. I consider myself an ok rider, but I'm not fast by any means.
A mate of mine is far faster than me. He bought a 160 recently. Took it out to our local trails instead of his normal 200. Suddenly he's not faster than me on my 200 any more. My conclusion? That article about how only pro's benefit from DH rigs was a load of old bollocks.
Im improving with age tho. Or just getting worse slower than those around me, one of the two...:P
That day I came 40th and beat 51% of competitors. I couldn't believe it, I must be Mr. Average. All my planning and prep had put me bang in the middle of the bell curve. I had to laugh really. Again this surprised me. I had imagined I would go into a week long depression, set fire to my bike and vow never to ride again. But I didn't. I now realise however that I have completely changed the way I ride. I used to just hammer along. Try and go as high as possible off every jump, try and rail every berm as fast as I can and get my back end to step out on every flat corner. But now a few weeks before race day something changes. I think "If I go slower here, will I be faster there?" "Should I pedal this bit, or will my legs be tired for the gnarly root section?" "will going round that kicker and turning in earlier for the next corner be faster than hitting the jump and having to slam on the anchors?" I love it. I am a geek at heart and racing lets that side of me come out to play. And the best bit is when I see the results I get to see if all the geekery paid off rather than just thinking "well it felt faster that time so it must have worked". There arent many times in life when you can let the inner geek out AND have hot girls scream at you to go faster at the same time
I came 14th at my last race. I had been aiming for top 20 so I was over the moon with this. Although that didnt last long, now I want top 10
And what you say about not being beaten by some guy you don't like? Funnily enough I did happen to notice this guy I don't like was racing that day. Some meathead wanker, bodybuilder type with an ego who I remember had screamed blue murder at me about a year ago at a completely different trail center because I had stopped to look at a jump. The fact that I was stood at least ten foot from the track didnt matter to him. He had screwed up the jump and was looking for someone to blame, so I was that guy. He didnt like it when I refused to apologise and called him a twat, so he shouted for a bit. At the race I noticed him at the start line and took note of his race number. Couldn't resist checking out where he placed. 29th with consistent times for both runs so no crash. That made me smile.
Trail/XC - 120mm Spesh Camber
All Mtn/enduro/free ride - 160mm Spesh Enduro Evo
DH - 200mm Norco Aurum
No carbon, all PB Buy N Sell bargains. Total cost for all three bikes less than the cheapest Endo choice. Knolly is lovely, just a bit hard to reach.
What trails did you find too hard for your AM and made you regret selling the DH?
I often ride Aston Hill and Surrey Hills and think a DH is an overkill. But I grew up in the Alps so maybe "gnarly" means something different to me
- Mike Levy?
- Richard Cunningham?
If you have the chance to regularly ride shuttle/lift service trails and bike parks, and are lucky enough to be able to afford
one, your likely going to want a DH bike.
coubsecure-a.akamaihd.net/get/b22/p/coub/simple/cw_timeline_pic/6ce928e8c2a/862c3d4725c9f9a9ec1e1/big_1415312860_image.jpg
-Jesse Pinkman
Anyone who says an Enduro bike is just as capable as a full on DH bike at a bike park is full of shit..
Like Chris Rock said "you can drive a car with your feet but that don't make it a good idea". Saw a dude on a CX bike on a rocky trail the other day. He proved it was possible but nothing about it looked fun.
People are taking this super literal, but I don't think that's the intention. I think the point is more: if 160mm bikes have truly tamed everything outside of race courses (& heck, I'm riding a Spartan, which was designed for a WC course) then where does that leave DH bikes? Is park riding & racing enough to keep companies spending R&D dollars on them? At what point is something "metaphorically" dead? For instance, you can still buy a Freeride bike from a few companies, but not many. Freeride bikes may not literally be dead, but between slopestyle, DH bikes, & Enduro bikes, effectively, they're pretty done.
The mtb industry is being driven by sales, middle class weekend warriors drive the sales and trust their lbs implicitly when it comes to advice on their new years bike purchase, lbs are loving it and the spare parts industry is dying down as people just buy new bikes now instead of upgrading due to the constant standards changes.
Dh bikes and 26" wheels will never die though as dh and slopestyle are the best thing in mtb media right now, xc and enduro are boring to watch
Does this seem reasonable and fiscally responsible to everyone else as well?
Sure, a lot of parks are building more green and blue trails, but that makes sense as it keeps people coming back after a first visit as opposed to feeling like their soul has been crushed. But most of those (those that I've been to at least) still have a bevy of single and double diamond trails.
So many more intermediate trails or buffed out flow trails. I have seen people on 120 mm slope bikes there (checkmate mike levy the enduro bike is obviously dead).
So does that speak to the park, or the people going too the park?
There is still some black diamond stuff there. They aren't getting rid of it are they?
Of course, she ignored peoples suggestion that she lower the seat.
@luckynugget : Forget about that one.
I pity everyone who loves riding aggressively down hills and doesn't live near a mountain they can use a downhill bike on.
That being said; you need a trail bike, too. Your trail bike will forever be stuck trying balance the climbs and the descents and I have found that more travel doesn't automatically equal a better riding experience on a trail bike.
I have a DH bike for lift access bike parks and shuttling. Otherwise I pedal a 150mm bike. Why does it have to be either/or? Why not both?
The question asked is impossible to answer unless every user submits theirs as an option.
So the DH bike is not dead, it's just becoming more niche.
However if money was not an issue, I would have a DH rig, a 140mm bike and a hardtail. I just can't justify owning a DH rig for the 6 - 10 rides a year.
*Knock knock*
>Who's that?
Its Free Ride.
>I didn't recognize you!
Its because I learned to pedal and descend.
>Oh man I've missed you so much!
Then how come you never called?
>Because... everyone made fun of me because DH racing got huge.
Its okay, I understand.
>You really are such a good segment of Mountain Biking. ....
Let have some beers.
>Yes, lets.
Freeride aint dead!
i quit the MTB riding thru the late 90's and the 2000's simply because mountain bike sucked as far as performance/durability, i got back to ride 2years ago when i discovered the DH bike since then my life completely changed
Evidence? I rode my trail bike at Bromont once, due to not having a DH bike at the time. Was it doable? Sure. Would I do it again? No. Was anyone else there stupid enough to do that? No, every one else that rides at Bromont also has a DH bike......unless you're one of the fruitloops going the wrong was up the hill.
Currently, i run one bike but that might get to change this summer. Also worth noting i have SEVERAL bike parks within weekend driving distance of me
But i wont own only one bike that CANT be pedaled to the top.
If I were buying new bikes, I would probably be looking hard at something like the YT Jeffsy for trail and then a DH bike. It seems that 29" bikes have come alive in the trail market and the geometry is finally there to make them fun and snappy.
Hit a 40 or 50 foot gap or jump on a 160 travel enduro bike and see how they holds up over time. A weaker bike doing downhill will wear out quicker witch works out well for bike shops and bike manufacturers. Who do u really work for pinkbike?
New Enduro/AM bikes are amazing but will NEVER keep up to a DH bike and competent rider in terrain a DH bike is made for. If you've got the nuts to ride it the new DH bikes will get you down faster than ever before.
Buy a bike that suits your riding area. Since I have bike parks and lots of trails to climb, it's and Enduro and a DH bike for me. If I could only have 1, yeah the Enduro is the way to go.
DH = DH bike
Dirt Jumps = DJ bike
Trail = Trail bike
Road = Road bike
That being said. I truly. Feel the type of rider that gravitates to full on DH is NOT the average rider that many if not most trail/endure guys are. All bikers are not the same that's just all there is to it. Much the same as the average Harley rider in not a Moto MX rider. But in my book if your riding dirt it's all good.
And yet despite this I'll never sell my dh rig. The very few chances I do get to ride dh trails its an absolute blast.
I got a new DH bike this year , only used it once but will get its proper use in the Alps this summer,
Bikes are fun , own as many as you can and ride as
Many different types you can
1- Enduro Bikes are expensive
2- They are more finnicky and dare i to say, pricier to service
3- The used market for "modern" enduro bikes ain't that great (yet)
4- 160mm of travel may be enough for experienced riders but that doesn't mean the bike won't bottom out clearing big gaps
5- Spec Big Hits and Kona Stinkys go for as little as 500€ these days widthstanding far more abuse
6- Downhill bikes are plusher and give you greater confidence
7- Steeze
Now don't get me wrong, i have nothing against enduro bikes and one day i may buy one. All in all this reminds me of the long debate of Fixed vs. Mobile technology.
It just ain't gonna happen.
I hear a lot about how hard DH bikes are to pedal, and I don't get it. I live near a bike park and a hill with some gnarly rock gardens. I like riding the big bike because it just calms everything down, and I feel like the bike isn't getting pummeled to death. When I get to the bottom of our local hill, I ride it back to the top.
AM is AM, and an AM bike is an AM bike.
DH is DH, and a DH bike is a DH bike.
What is an Enduro bike though?
Enduro was originally racing on an AM bike, but seems to be morphing into DH-lite. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The bikes seem to be in rapid evolution, moving away from being trail capable.
That said, I dig running my AM bike at buffed out DH parks.
At some point, as parks get less old school, and more buffed, I'll likely drop the full DH rig, and just mod my AM bike for lift assist days.
The DH bike is definitely not dead. Didn't a lot of pinkbikers here celebrated Loic Bruni's recent win? The way I see it, it seems the development of bikes is actually heading towards DH. Heck, even videos have DH themes. Which means we will have more riders getting into DH in the future.
I Love my DH and wouldn't think of using anything else for racing on a real DH track... but that said... there are plenty of tracks out there that only warrant an eduro bike...
How about we all just say we would ride the appropriate bike on the appropriate tracks...
but i love her to bits. and she'll probably outlast me
This past weekend was Enduro challenge Madeira , and in 2 categories, a DH bike came first and in another category was second only shows that the bike dh is versatile to.
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1022809757767515&set=a.551417004906795.1073741827.100001155026891&type=3&theater
www.facebook.com/Challengeenduro/photos/a.1497459910525688.1073741832.1490995071172172/1734615456810131/?type=3&theater
Simple answer.. NO
Are world cup DH'ers, he'll. Even national level riders winning on 160bikes? No
I think for the (average....) rider that wants one bike for every thing then yeah, fine but. When they take that bike to a proper DH venue be it push, shuttle or chair. A full on DH rig will out perform
just think about the entrance to the "ATM secret trail".... DH? or AM bike?
I think I'll keep my DH bike for days like that.
But 20-25lbs with adequate toughness and a 180+ fork isn't yet available without selling my soul. I'd also like to see a 200mm fork with a linear type lockout/lock in. Being able to pull that fork in to a 120position for climbs and straights and keep it there, with an internal frame charge canister for the extra pressure needed for tyres, shocks, seatposts, whatever. But perhaps that will happen now electronics are finding they're way into the market and designs. Full bike presets onbar would be excellent. Hopefully before I hit 50yrs x)
But theirs no better feeling than getting a lift up to the top of a downhill run and blasting down on a downhill bike. Yes it's a very 1 function bike, but it's just the business.
Long story short, I do more trail riding, but I still prefer downhill
To the 'writer' of this article, I encourage him to take his 160mm 'enduro' bike and enter it in the next World Cup DH race, then post the video of his quali run, 'cuz he sure as heck ain't gonna make it past qualification(s).
I own a DH bike because I have two DH runs across the street from my house(yes, I know I'm fortunate for this) that require a DH bike to minimize your time.
One of 'em has a 4-5' drop which I'd bottom the piss outta my Enduro(as in Specialized) on taking full speed, and the other has a rock garden whose rocks are big enough to where at full speed(25mph or so) I use ALL 200mm of travel on my 951. Riding the Enduro, I couldn't do it, as the spacing between the rocks and their position is such that your front end smashes into damn near every single one.
LONG LIVE THE DH BIKE!
We are mountain bikers. Remember there are rules. Like you can never have too many bikes.
Ride the right tool for the job.
I once rode a santacruz vpfree with totwms for everything. Just change shock and wheels depending if it was an xc ride, a day in the mountains or a Dh race. Well before the 1 bike thing was popular. It was great but always a compromise. Now I have a bike for every occasion. Some hardly get ridden, but the pinkbike troll articles said you had to go 29 then 27.5... so 26 became cheap on the 2nd hand market. Thanks pinkbike, you gave me lots of bikes
I will always own a DH bike, even if its the only bike i have, currently looking to build up a nice long slack Hardtail to deal with the long trail rides/arsing about that isnt feasible on the big rig.
Different bikes for different likes.
If money is a factor i see the appeal of an allrounder, but wit money taken out of the equation there´s simply no reason to not own a dh-bike, cause if the trail gets reasonably steep a dh-bike is superior to everything else.
If i had the money for a new dh rig I would be jumping at it without much thought, however money and my interests are polar opposites so I gotta pick and choose wisely.
More interests take up more time, more riding+more surfing= less time for work
less time for work=less money
less money= smaller quivers
smaller quivers= yelling at my fiance
yelling at my fiance = even smaller quivers
I'm just going to quit everything and get into coin collecting
Oddly enough, my new bike (M16 Carbon) is so light (36.6 lbs) and pedals so well, that I swear that with a dropper post and wider gearing (currently running Zee with an Ultegra road cassette), it wouldn't be a half bad trail bike...
I am fortunate enough to be in a position where I can own many high-end bikes.
People go on and on about "fun" bikes...my Darkside is the bike that have given me more fun moments than any bike I've ever ridden
I own a knolly podium and I recently rode a buddies Devinchi Spartan.
It felt every bit as capable as my Podium going down steep and technical and I could pedal up hill easily.
Would the AM bike take the abuse from park riding and not break down sooner than a DH...probably not.
Would the AM bike handle some of the more extreme park features and terrain at speed as well as DH...probably not.
At the end of the day you can ride almost any terrain on either style bike, with each having its advantages in different areas.
It comes down to how you prefer to approach the given terrain and how much time you intend to ride park.
The ultimate solution is still multiple bikes, but If I had to chose just one I think the modern enduro/all mountain bikes is the way to go.
And the comments that suggest the poll is flawed are correct.
Loving my Rune @64HA
Could we spend quality time on brainstorming killer argumentation to explain to our wives why we all need at least 3 bikes (DH, trail/enduro, dirt)? That would help me, and wouldn t harm the bike /dh industry:-)
For me DH bikes is useful when u have really hard trails, if not enduro can make it
26" wheels ok.
I don't know how many half-baked edit I've seen of kids on massive DH rigs riding down stuff that could easily be done on a decent trail bike. Suspension and materials have come so far that we are able to make more manageable bikes that can do almost every thing you need.
Downhill has always been a niche market, but I believe it's only going to become more niche. The necessity for a true downhill bike isn't really a thing, unless you're a pro level racer who is able to push a bike that far. For most people, even "aggressive riders" 160mm is more than enough travel when tuned properly.
That is all.
{N = current number of bike(s)}
amirite?
Fact is that DH tracks (at least the few in my country) are less steep and more groomed and littered with park style obstacles ( jumps, drops, wallrides) than enduro trails ( at least in my country), which are way more technical, steep and challenging. I shit my pants more riding trails and it takes bigger bals riding them blind. Plus you ride downhill speed with limited protection.
I say with the trailbikes and enduro bikes of today, DH bikes are getting more and more redundant. Unless you want to look cool at the bikepark with fullfaces and neckbraces...