The initial Grim Donut had such lofty expectations of hydration heaven.
A few years ago we asked you whether you were for, or indeed against, water bottles in a
Pinkbike poll.
The poll was made of two parts. To the initial question, concerning your hydration method of choice, the majority of you said that you preferred carrying a pack. The second question was whether water bottle compatibility was something of a deal breaker when buying a new frame. To that, the significant minority of you said that you felt as if it was. Well, it's been nearly five years and the debate may well have shifted.
The 2021 Nukeproof Mega now comes with space for a bottle and sees a very different downtube shape.
Personally, I have the evolutionary quirk of needing hydration to survive and for me anything that inhibits that is a no-go. I like having a bottle for its ease of access, low cost and also the fact that maybe the water bottle is itself possibly the only true standard in mountain biking.
However, others would disagree. The argument prevails that why on earth are we fitting bikes to water bottles and not the other way around? Rear suspension on a bike is there for grip - anything that compromises that is clearly a bad thing. I suppose I would argue that it's just one of the many design challenges facing enduro and trail bikes and some will embrace it more than others.
But what do you think? In 2021 should all freshly released bikes be coming with space for a water bottle in the front triangle? Or is this something fuelled by thirsty Kirsty's, such as myself, who over emphasise the need for at hand hydration? Vote below, and we'll see how opinions have changed in the last five years.
Yep I use an MSR mini pump filter. It’s great peace of mind on a big pedal, and also lets ya pack less water if you know there’s a stream 3-4hrs into an epic.
Drink from the fast running water to reduce the chances of beaver fever.
Dont know if its true or not. Probably cursed myself now so fingers crossed.
Anyone know if this is a myth or true?
it's like murder island, but with better looking women.
If you want to make a design that can’t fit a bottle, simply make a custom bottle and include it with the bike.
Forgot to add that on a summer expedition my dad's crew ran out of water and it was drink from trickle of water or die. They made it out the next day but by second day all had beaver fever.
Note they did not drink from fast running water just a dripping moss spot in the forest.
I drink a lot and live in a hot climate so being able to bring a few litres in a hydration pack and supplement with a bottle with electrolytes is an awesome combo.
Sometimes when I finish the bottle, I will just refill it from my pack to move some of the weight on my back onto the frame as well.
Summer: pack. It gets hot and the streams dry up.
I'm in the PNW, and in the winter, on 1.5hr rides, I'll drink 1.5-2L. In the summer I've had to cut rides short/refill halfway at times.
Maybe I just sweat a lot.
That said, its because of my thirst for water, that I want to make sure that my bike at least fits a single bottle, to extend my range in the summer, and maybe play around with what riding with a single bottle is like.
Current bike won't fit one though :/.
(Flat)
Hey... so does anyone have a tube? Hehe forget about what I said before..
It makes a massive difference to how much you have to carry. I usually sip little and often on the way to the ride in my car, followed by 400-500ml just before setting off.
Biopace was clocked ***exactly*** wrong.
COG is the only argument here and it's largely trivial 99% of the time because it's such a small percentage of the system weight. If the load is secure on the back, the rider can adapt just fine. You don't see top gravity racers cutting upper body weight just to improve COG, so why would it matter for the rest of us?
We've accepted that tons of stuff doesn't matter enough to worry about it. Folks ride inserts because for them the benefits outweigh the cons. Plenty of other examples. It's a highly objective call given a rider's situation and what you're doing is implying that people who ride with packs are idiots who don't understand basic physics. Perhaps, they understand it well enough to realize having enough water, spares etc makes more sense than the largely intangible benefit of moving 8lbs down a couple feet.
You are correct, top gravity riders are not cutting upper body weight (which is a ridiculous argument for all sorts of reasons), but almost all top enduro racers are not using packs when they can get away with it.
If you like packs or can't fit everything on your frame, then that is a great reason to use a pack. But from a physics perspective, packs are whack.
My issue with the comment was that folks had already, either consciously or not, weighed the cost/benefit of wearing a pack and decided that the performance difference was trivial enough to go ahead and wear a pack when needed.
Unless we’re talking suspension performance characteristics, all the other reasons you would seek to cut weight (faster acceleration, improved climbing efficiency, etc.) it doesn’t matter if it’s body weight or bike weight. Total system weight vs. available power is the critical measure.
Bigger picture, we fuss about a millimeter here or there in BB height for center of mass reasons, but freely add 6-8 lbs in water, pack, tools, and gear to chest height. Not saying there aren’t situations where that compromise makes sense, I wear a pack full of water and gear for long rides, but I don’t try to convince myself there isn’t a performance trade off in cornering and bike mechanics, there is. Simple physics.
Your body with more than 600 muscles and nearly 200 joints, is much more complex and capable than the bike frame at adjusting for forces from multiple angles.
When you add components and weight to a bike itself... you basically change the bikes behavior in many ways. The same weight can be easily absorbed and compensated for by your body without altering its behavior.
I used to use a hydration pack and used to be kind of a dick about it. Then I decided to actually test out using a water bottle and strapping stuff to my bike. It made 2 big differences for me:
1. Weight.. as I said before, getting rid of all that weight sloshing around high up on my back made a large noticeable difference. When controlling the bike at 10/10ths, moving my body around just felt easier and quicker. Fast weight shifts from one side of the bike to another like in a quick series of quick S turns or when you get knocked off line and need to very quickly adjust your body weight or you're hitting the deck was also just easier. During races I felt like I was able to more confidently go faster.
2. Comfort... again at high speeds, no matter what pack you have or how tightly you strap it down, when riding hard, the things just move and bounce around... it's annoying... and trying to find that fine line between comfort and tighly strapped was always a struggle. Then there's the heat and sweat... I don't think this needs much explanation other than going pack-less is night and day in comparison.
I've now got a great set-up where, for my usual 1.5 to 3 hour ride, one water bottle and all the tools/pump/spares I need fit on my bike. Riding longer or further away or for enduro races, I'll add a small (1.5L) hip back that can hold an extra water bottle (nice and low and tight on my hips) as well as a couple extra spares and snacks that I need to get through the day.
I did lots of research and testing... I'm a super anal guy about comfort and weight and I notice every small change about my bike... and I've found what I deem an almost perfect set-up. Yes, some people don't give a shit... I see people riding around with giant packs half open, loosely strapped to their back with straps almost hanging in their wheels, with their seat posts not in the proper position so they're climbing all bent up and hunched over... my point is, there are people on both the extremes of not caring at all/oblivious and those who care a lot about very small things. I happen to be on one side of the extreme, and this shit makes a big difference for me... and lots of other people. And even more people once they actually test it out and realize how much of a difference it does make.
EDIT---> The less contoured SB150 front triangle gave them space to do the new linkage. Bottle fit too (woot).
I strap a tube where the water bottle cage mount is. I need more than one bottle for real rides.
But as they say, different strokes for different folks. I'll keep using my pack, and y'all can keep on with your water bottles. Everybody wins.
Other benefits:
-Fill it up with ice completely before water and it cools your back for a couple hours.
-Damn near hands free drinking/Keeps your eyes on the trail/Dont have to reach awkwardly down somewhere.
-You cant knock it off your frame with your knee or extra rowdy impacts.
-spine protector (#1 reason for me)
I've literally heard people lamenting that the bike they bought doesn't ride as well as [Brand X] that they tested out, "but it has a water bottle mount, so..."
Like, what? You would sacrifice how well your bike rides to have a water bottle? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I hear those conversations.
Wallet is locked in the car. I hide my key on the car somewhere.
I've lost a key before on a ride when my pocket rubbed a hole through it from the key. It's also come in use if someone needs to bail back to the car.
I 3D printed a single key holder for a specific key when there was no good option to hide it. It worked great for that one key. I'm never really find of hiding them and still waiting for someone to make an armored key pouch.
Who are these people that can survive on one water bottle?
When looking at my next bike I would have a slight preference for it to take a water bottle, but it would only be a tiebreaker.
Also I found flexible bottles (water tubes) could be used as a solution to allocate some water with pocket;
SWAT ( Stumpjumper ) allow you to carry all essentials + water and look so 'enduro bro'
Long ride. Pack
Gnarly / tech / dangerous ride. Pack for the extra spine protection.
* not a fan of big packs though and prefer the super lightweight ones that ultra runners ( and Kirt Voreis) use.
1) how often do you empty/clean your water bottle?
2) how often do you empty/clean your hydration pack?
I clean my bottles every ride, maybe second ride if it wasn’t empty, but I don’t know the last time my osprey was empty... I figure as long as it tastes of a little iodine, it’s still clean
Sounds like foreshadowing for 2022 model year announcements that 10 bicycle makers are introducing proprietary water bottles for their 2022 bicycles. Maybe they will replace all their standard frames with their e-bike frames, putting built-in water bottles where the in-frame batteries go. Carry the water inside the frame the way batteries integrate into the frame.
The only problem is where to run the water line? Only solution is to double the price of dropper posts by running the water line through the post for direct hydration into the lower intestine. They can patent it "Intero-Rectohydration". Bike mags will rave about it saving .0003 seconds off 20 mile loop times, while 10,000 fps chuck-to-flat videos cause a massive collective shudder across the biking internet.
(caution, this post may contain sarcasm and pop cultural references)
Since I’ve paid more attention to this I have been finding my physical exertion has been more effective and my recovery a lot easier. It also means my 20km ride in the Australian summer this (and every) morning was effectively handled by a single water bottle.
for regular country/mountain rides, bottles are ok, I guess. but once it turns gnarlier or down the hill, bottles start flying around. (and not to mention a centre of gravity)
Just put in a fresh plastic bottle from the tray... Good to go.
Plus room for wallet, cell, keys, rain stuff if weather looks challanging.
I do appreciate bottle cages (my current bike has one) but the ability to fit one on a bike would never influence whether or not I buy a certain bike.
Having a super duper expensive light bike an the bolting
all the tings In random places all over the bike looks so fkd to me.
Even an enduuhhro fanny pack if you're in a super hot climate
Then to be, I'm not buying that frame/bike because water bottle Seems even more fkd
Also wearing a pack looks bad. I'd rather my bike look bad than me :-)
It's also not specific to the type of riding. I personally like my bike feel to be constant, and dislike launching waterbottles into the trees only to get to the bottom of a descent and realise I've got no water. So in certain cases, I want that weight off the bike. I.E.- more than one bottle.
I also find a hydration bladder easier to access when riding. As a taller individual where bottles are typically mounted low on MTB's, it can be a PITA to reach for a bottle while pedaling/climbing, and return it without some fobbles. A hose/mouthpiece is always at the ready.
Here's me...
If it's riding where I'm just getting out to have fun with little consequence, and only need a single-bottle's volume of water or less, it's the bottle. Pack is optional if I think I can walk out in the case of shit going south. But... depending on the style of riding (aggressive/enduro) or terrain, I'll probably still ride with a pack and no bladder, because I like the back/spine protection in-case of a spill, as well as the ability to carry spares, kit, beer, weed, etc.
If it's aggressive riding with more consequence I'm riding with a pack regardless for back/spine protection, and depending on temp/environment/length of ride, I'll lean towards a pack/hydration bladder over a bottle. The nice thing about a bladder is you can choose to fill it up with 1l, 2l, or more depending on your use-case, and it gets the weight off of the bike, which is important to me for ride/bike-feel.
But if it's longer, all-day or multi-day adventures where ride-feel is less important and my bike has the capacity to run two bottles, (Gravel, HT, Touring, etc) than I'm going want that weight on the bike and off the shoulders, and go with two of the largest bottles I can fit- because they're easily refillable, and gets the weight off my back and shoulders which can lead to fatigue over long distances.
Also, I’ve been toying with buying an Evil Wreckoning for a while. For me, the difference between the first Wreckoning with no water bottle mounts, and the LB version that came second with water bottle mounts, is way more important than the difference between the LB and the newest v3 with updated geo
www.mtbr.com/threads/solution-to-wreckonings-lack-of-waterbottle-mounts.1008247/post-12562952
summer / spring / autumn / winter easygoing ride, maybe with kids , or maybe just a quick lunchtime ride of 1h -> water bottle for sure....
cleaning the hydration pack for 2 hours of spring ride with the kids or for a lunchtime ride for me is too much....
Personally I think it should be a requirement for all new bikes to have one. It just makes so much sense.
in Jamaica the hydro packs get stinky and moldy quickly. I use limes or lemons to sterilize but they turn colour quick. Water bottles are my go 2 I will store one in my backpack if I have to....even my Nomad has a zipp tied cage.
Frames have co-moulded rubber protectors nowadays. I reckon they should do a similar thing with water storage. Make the suspension and geo good, then fit a custom bottle into the available space, rather than mess up everything in order to fit a generic bottle in.
As if water bottles are the only actual "standard" the mtb industry has actually agreed on...
Bottle cage mount in case I wanna ride no pack just bottle.
Pack for carrying 3 liters + of water for a big ride.
Bottle cage mount on frame for bear spray on a big ride. Or a short ride.
Pack to carry all my things, Indiana Jones style.
Bottle cage mount also on my DH bike please, I mean cmon why not? For various reasons.
Two bottle cage mounts on frame, plus pack? Sure I’ll take that. Can mount spare tube to one, etc.
I’ll have it my way, thanks for playing.
-Everyone
In summer, my OCD kicks in and leaves me in utter rage every time I come home from a ride with a pack, and find I've been dragging an extra 2 kilos on my back for hours.
I already have a pack for tools, food and spares, so water in the pack it is...
most of my laps are about 1 hr long. and on those i literally just want a sip or two to wet my mouth with mid ride. otherwise i can replenish back at my vehicle.
Sincerely,
A small person who rides a small sized Evil
Majority of frames have modern enough geo, so those features became selling point's;
Went for the camel option though - here in dreich Scotland I can pretty easily ride for a couple hours without water, unless it's roasting hot - and by roasting I mean 20°C! (In my younger days I did a 30-mile ride on a Penguin bar and a few sips from a stream...)
PS that new bottle-friendly Nukeproof downtube is pretty hideous...
Can we stop whining and get back to the DJ/Freeride content, like oldschool PinkBike?
If that means weird swoopy tubes so that water bottles fit, then it’s a hard no.
I’d rather carry water on my back or hip than ride a swoopy tube ugly bike. Anytime.
I'm seriously asking, what if you needed the ugliest, swoopiest tube ever to get perfect geo and performance?
Fidlock: "hold my (water)"
(no complaints, I actually have the Fidlock bottle / mount system and it's great.)
Or maybe water bottles are performance enhancing due to weight distribution and such? Hmmm
The difference in performance between a bike that can't carry a water bottle to something that can is going to be negligible for me. I will 100% of the time choose the bike that can carry a water bottle. Hydration packs in the summer are the f*cking worst
Sweat: nature's cooling mechanism
Well I’d trade all my tomorrows for a single yesterday,
Holdin’ Bottle’s body close to mine
Me n Bottle McGee
Camelback on 5lts backpack for short.
Camelback on 20lts backpack for long.
Can't imagine having a bike without a single one
(Yes they added mounts to some frames for 2020 but still under the downtube).
But I'm fine with one under the downtube