In some corners of the mountain bike world there seems to be an electronic arms race, a quest to stick as many batteries on a bike as possible. The recently released
Trek Rail is a prime example. It’s an eMTB, so the big battery in the downtube is to be expected – that’s not the issue here. It’s the addition of the AXS battery in the derailleur and dropper post, the battery on each wheel to monitor tire pressure, plus the battery in the fork and shock (also to monitor pressure) that has me scratching my head. Does a bike really need eight batteries, not including the one that actually powers it? Are the performance gains really worth the extra complication and cost? So far I’m not convinced.
To me, it feels like electronic bits, especially wireless ones, are being launched in a haphazard, almost gimmicky way. From where I’m sitting, it’s hard to envision what the end result will be, other than a bike with enough blinking lights and display panels to make an air traffic controller jealous. Before I go any further, I should stress that, despite harboring some Luddite-ish tendencies, I’m not totally opposed to
some electronic inventions making their way into mountain biking. It's part of my job to test and evaluate the latest products, and these days it seems like many of them require an app and a wall outlet. The addition of electronics does have the potential to improve the mountain biking experience, at least in some cases, it just needs to be done for a valid reason, rather than just trying to add another line to the list of features.
My favorite rides are the ones where the bike fades into the background, allowing me to concentrate on the trail ahead and to enjoy the sensation of the world turning into a blur on either side. I've said it before, but there’s something magical about those moments of flow, the times when the countless daily distractions are pushed aside, replaced by a state of sustained bliss that’s the ultimate goal of nearly every athletic endeavor.
The thing is, I find it a lot harder to achieve that flow when my ears are being bombarded by the ‘
bzzzt bzzzt’ of servos moving a derailleur or switching shock modes, or when there’s a bright screen and a bunch of blinking lights flashing at me during the ride. Now, if a bike has a motor I can cut it a little more slack in the decibel distraction department, but I still want it as quiet and unobtrusive as possible.
With the flood gates open, there’s no turning back the wave of electronic gadgetry that's on the way from SRAM, Shimano, Fox, and others, but there are a few tenets I’d like to see adhered to before things get even more out of control.
No blinking lights unless absolutely necessary. If a component has a battery or air pressure indicator, that little LED shouldn’t light up unless a button is pushed - there should be a way to totally deactivate the lights that announce to the world that you have fancy electronics on your bike. I want to be able to focus on the trail, rather than having some LED flashing intermittently to let me know that yes, my fork still has air in it, or that my fork has switched modes. To be fair, many electronic components do have 'Dark Mode' options or the ability to dim the screen, but enough of them don't that this is worth a mention.
Wires should be well protected. Wireless everything is all the rage, but I actually don't mind wires when they make sense. Wires can mean that there are fewer batteries to charge or replace, which I fully support. What I do mind is when those wires are barely protected, the equivalent of dangling strands of overcooked angel hair pasta from various parts of a bike and hoping they survive a ride. The wire itself can be thin, it's the sheath protecting it that should be more robust and able to survive a crash or two.
App free is the way to be. The less time I need to spend staring at my phone the better, especially if I'm out on a ride. Using an app to change settings on an electronic component should be an option rather than a requirement whenever possible – nobody likes to waste precious ride time waiting for Bluetooth components to pair on the side of the trail. RockShox's new Flight Attendant system does a pretty good job of not needing the app once it's set up, which is a good thing because the AXS app can be very frustrating when all of the components don't want to show up and play nicely together.
My rant isn’t aimed at any one company in particular, either. Yes, SRAM is currently rolling out the most battery powered components, but it’s only a matter of time before Shimano releases their newest drivetrain, and I’m willing to bet it’s got a battery and a blinking light or two, and probably some really skinny wires.
Will there be a day when drivetrain and suspension components that don't need batteries are only available for the lowest-end components? Possibly, but I don't think that's going to be any time soon – the simplicity and low cost of traditional cable-actuated components is really, really hard to beat. When it comes to suspension, I'm sure that more electronically controlled options are going to emerge. However, given how good modern suspension and bike kinematics have gotten it's going to need to be something really special to convince riders that adding batteries and buttons is worth the extra cash.
There are places where I can see the benefits of adding electronics, as long as they're seamlessly integrated and don't add much weight or complication. For instance, the concept of a simple, wireless, electronic lockout makes a lot of sense. A tiny blip button that firmed up the suspension in an instant, and then unlocked it with another touch could come in handy on a long travel enduro bike, especially one with a fairly active suspension design. There were hints that something like this was being tested on the World Cup DH circuit this year, and it's a concept that appeals to me more than relying on sensors and algorithms to try and pick the right settings.
I can also see integrated telemetry, something like what Mondraker is doing with their MIND system, catching on with riders who want to be sure that their suspension is set up perfectly, at least according to a computer. That's not really something that would make me pick one bike over another, as it goes against the whole 'as few batteries as possible' theme I've got going on here, although I understand the appeal. At the same time, setting up suspension properly isn't exactly rocket science, and it's far from the dark art that it's all too often made out to be.
Realistically, I'm just waiting for a 200mm dropper post that goes down by itself with the push of a button. I think that'll help me put some of my electronic skepticism to the side, at least until I forget to charge its battery.
The amount of laps at my local park I can do per hour on my eeb dwarfs the amount I can do on a non-ebike. With having limited ride opportunities due to work + family obligations, time is my limiting factor. More laps = more fun.
Others see it differently so if you could (and you definitely CAN - *Cough* aftermarket idea - someone take it and pay me royalties *Cough*) make a modular wire harness that runs from the battery connector(s) of an AXS derailleur/seatpost/shock and maybe fork to a central location where the battery was stored this could be achieved quite simply and not impact current product offerings. If the current output of the battery was sufficient to run multiple devices it could be all done with one AXS battery (shorter charge intervals obviously), giving you numerous spares. The battery in the handlebar buttons is likely unavoidable.
I might have just talked myself into a wiring/prototyping project - anyone want to send me some free AXS stuff to play with......?
Cant find the time to ride without a motor, cant find the time to dig trail, cant find the time to learn trail etiquite, cant find the time for family + passions, seems like maybe its just a different pursuit that ya should be looking for
I hear golf is tons of fun. Those par 3 courses are getting moar popular and you can knock a lap out in an hour
Be safe be well,
Incognito Robin
Short on time is true because most bust their ass and work more than anything and can actually afford to buy expensive ass e-bikes in addition to their expensive ass regular bikes.
Sure you shouldn't ask your mommy's permission first though?
Someone has no time? How can't that be?
Some of us have whatever reasons to have to less time, this should be non of your business.
Most can't ride more because of work eh?
Freaking short daylight is a reason why some switch to E-MTBs.
Funny or unbelievable not sure which, but E-bikers don't need to do anything extra to show "good will" to the community no more then anyone else. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard yet.
I think it also plays towards bikes being more like cars, i e. You upgrade a car as a unit rather than a collection of part that you slowly upgrade like triggers broom. More integration, harder to separate.
It's a personal choice and partially how you view the past time / hobby and equipment. I prefer a more core mindset where equipment should be less important and DIY ethos both in building features and maintenance of bikes and your scene is very important.
Do you consume the hobby or try to create it? I have to admit that although I am not into chasing the latest equipment I am consumer as I do next to zero trail building or maintenance, but do feel this is the more important side of the sport rather then what equipment is sold / bought. :/
It needed to be said but next time post under a ghost writer....we do not want NotOutsideCEO firing you!
No batteries for me I'm afraid. The net gain for a normal rider is non existent imo.
Shifter
Dropper
Fork
Shock
E Bike
Front light
Rear light
Front tyre wiz
Rear tyre wiz
Garmin
Phone
Watch
"I'm nearly charged guys, S%#t its the afternoon already"
Not even sure you can buy a usb hub with that many outlets..
And live valve suspension? 99% of riders done have any clue how to set up their regular suspension and probably don’t know that it’s even set up poorly. Are they really gonna notice live valve? I have a hard enough time keeping my fork and shock serviced and operating well, I ride a lot. Making them more complicated is not the answer.
I like riding bikes because they are simple. I can fix virtually anything in a pinch with a small toolkit and a box of old spare parts. That’s one of the best attributes compared my other toys like dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Adding unnecessary electronics like axs and live valve etc is f*cking stupid. And I bet pretty soon we won’t be able to get a high end bike without it.
But it's easy to "innovate" by duplicating existing things with a motor so brands will keep doing so.
This "make it electric"-wave has been seen in different industries already.
So...singlespeed hardtails only. I can get with that.
The only part I agree with is that single speed is way too hard for most people and I think that is okay! Everyone doesn’t have to like everything.
I understand many people can’t be bothered to try and muscle up a hill - I see them on all the time in life. They make Ebikes, ski lifts, and truck racks to assist people who want to go that route. That’s okay - have fun however you like as long as you don’t hurt others.
That’s why they sell so many ebikes. People are free to ride with as many batteries as they want.
I’m sorry to hear you have herniated discs and I hope you feel better, that sucks.
With that said you have to ride single speed bikes differently or you might get hurt. Same as any other hardtail.
I’m over 40!
My pedaling is pure awesomeness!
I know many other amazing riders who are over 40 on single speeds too!
“We” are doing great and having fun!
Lol
Yes it s not needed to ride.
Do you all use a cell phone? Do you charge it all day everyday? probably...is it needed to live?, NOT
Choices...
a lot of negative discussion and therefore traffic. This site's purpose is
to make money, not help the community come together.
Di2 on a curly bar bike was great for me, but take it from someone who paid full price for AXS….it’s expensive, over-hyped, and just doesn’t shift that great.
But a battery powered bike, battery controlled suspension, battery powered tire pressure monitoring? HARD NO.
It’s a bit of a process to unscrew your valves, check pressure (likely with a standalone gauge, not your pump) or just assume it’s low, connect pump, check final pressure, tighten valves, EVERY ride or two, and if the batteries die on the pressure gauge (which I assume takes a lot longer than AXS) you lose literally no functionality. Probably doesn’t weigh much either. That’s seems fine with me. It’s like the battery on a digital pressure gauge, it lasts a year+, is it really a “battery” in the same sense as derailleurs with a weeks worth of charge or a bike motor with 3 hours worth?
Even though I'm an old fat dude I refuse to buy a battery "assisted" bike as I can't imagine not hauling my fat ass up the hill to earn my turns down, even if it means fewer round trips.
If I want something with a motor I'll go hop on my son's CR450F and play.
Already in early 19th century electronic clock was a thing, but it took more than a century to make the quartz clock mainstream and cheaper to produce than a mechanical movement.
We need to get to the point when an electronic shifter/mech combo will be more precise AND cheaper to produce/install than an equally capable mechanical system.
Dads life, don’t get old kids!
I'm not going to refuse pedal-assist, electric shifting suspension, anti-theft, accident response, and other electric functions if it improves the ride quality, esp if it beats the value of other upgrades (carbon frame/wheels, airtag).
Figure I can then stash my smartphone in a safer spot (and feel like I can afford to own a fancy pricey one), and not have to plug in so many diff stand-alone gadgets when I get home, nor feel like I missed out on some opportunity by not bringing them.
We don't need any of this, so how many it needs isn't really a legitimate question. It's how many do you want.
I'm cool with my AXS and use bike lights a few times/ year. The Garmin I used for a few weeks was just too much to keep up with, for me.
However for an e-bike, clearly everything needs to be ran off 1 large battery as it just makes sense. You could have lights, your Garmin, your shifting (which really should be a proper transmission, your suspension, the dropper, etc.
1. Why not run everything that needs a cable off an e-bike battery and then for the techheads who really feel like they need all this stuff, it will be more integrated. Also better environmentally because of not having additional small, often non recyclable or disposable batteries.
2. Selling these features as performance enhancing is a joke, its just marketing. Most e-bike riders are of a level of competence where they will not feel the minute benefits of on trail shock tuning. Most are below average weekend warriors who often cant even tell if their tyres are pumped up to 60psi.
3. Ill be honest that I like the clean lines of cable free droppers and mechs but not the price.
4. Most of the 'ride enhancing stuff' can be replaced by cheaper (or free) alternatives. A digital tyre pressure gauge costs very little and lasts forever. I tried a shockwizz once and it simply told me my set up was already optimum. Why? Because the suggested factory settings from Fox with a few tweaks was pretty much spot on. Funny old thing that!
I see bicycles splitting into two distinct segments: the traditional "analog' bike, and an e-bike with more bells, lights, and whistles than anyone could ever want.
Also Pinkbike: you don't need this.
Also ofc 0 batteries required
This is what I want, and Need. That, and steps to the retraction.
Knees that bend barely to 90 degrees really make it difficult to get a post down, without further injury. Go too far down in one go, which all too often happens, and my knees 'cam out', on the synthetic ACLs I have, and the wear pockets in the joints. It's not fun at all.
Make it not an option and you can sell all the cars for £1500 more.
Welp, the newest generations of Dura-Ace and Ultegra (the top two road groupsets from Shimano) were announced a few months ago, and they are Di2-only (no mechanical shifting options). As foreshadowing, I don't like it one bit.
With the current trend to stick a battery in almost everything on a bike, when will we get a decent heated grip?
If they would absorve the MTB cult, there wouldn't even be E-Moped (aka ebikes)
In a perfect world - one.
In a binary world: 0, 1, and more.
(Oh, a battery pack for my phone because it's old and Strava DRAINS it lol)
but since I'm here, When you've got great trails getting absolutely destroyed by kooks compensating for lack of technique by flying into corners, skidding the entire thing and then pulling out of it in a higher gear than humanly possible, I beg to disagree.
Its not the ebikes, its the morons using them who have no business being in the sport. Sorry but if you couldn't manage to find the motivation to pedal a bicycle to the top of the hill without requiring any motor assistance, then you've probably found yourself in the wrong sport.
But fear not!! There are many great alternatives including a rather novel invention, colloquially known as a dirt bike. 50 hp and 1 battery!! Amazing huh. And of course as mentioned in previous posts, there's always golf......
I mean should everyone on the planet be able to get to to the top of Everest? We've seen how that once great mountain has become a joke in the world of alpinism thanks to this "by any means necessary" attitude. This is all eerily similar to the sport climbing revolution. Which I will concede did bring quite a few really cool things to the table, but also broke so many others along the way. You'd think we'd have learned a little bit.
But in general, I just dont see how encouraging a large influx of these morons is a win for the sport. To me thats the problem with ebikes, just makes it too damn easy for idiots to enter the sport. Agree to disagree though, you didn't escalate the post into an argument and I appreciate it. Cheers!
My synopsis is .. profit because
NEW sells
Its that simple
That’s how f*cking many.
External cable routing for life!