Nicolai's Electronically Shifted Gearbox Enduro Bike - Interbike 2018
Guys, here it is; the belt-driven, electronically shifting, gearbox equipped, coil-sprung, 160mm-travel enduro bike that should be the answer to, well, everything? Jokes and the Nicolai's Bosch CX motor aside, this German-made monster is pretty rad regardless of your feelings about e-bikes. It'll also cost you somewhere around $10,000 USD if you want your own, but at least no one can make that old ''It doesn't even come with a motor!" comment this time.
As with any Nicolai, there are some neat details to check out.
Nicolai used to be known for their wacky geometry, but it turned out that they were just ahead of the curve and the numbers they use now, while certainly still on the extreme end of things, are no longer viewed as being too wild. I'd say they're still a step further than what's common, though, especially the 160mm-travel bike's 63.5-degree head angle and 77-degree seat angle. There are a few rigs with the similar travel and angles, but very few are as adjustable as the big Ion.
You can run the rear-end from 461mm to 474mm, 27.5'' and 29'' wheels, up to a 2.8'' wide rear tire, and tinker with the bike's angles until the cows come home.
Nicolai used to be known for their wacky geometry, but it turned out that they were just ahead of the curve and the numbers they use now, while certainly still on the extreme end of things, are no longer viewed as being too wild. I'd say they're still a step further than what's common, though, especially the 160mm-travel bike's 63.5-degree head angle and 77-degree seat angle. There are a few rigs with the similar travel and angles, but very few are as adjustable as the big Ion.
You can run the rear-end from 461mm to 474mm, 27.5'' and 29'' wheels, up to a 2.8'' wide rear tire, and tinker with the bike's angles until the cows come home.
Ion G16 Eboxx E14
Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
Travel: 160mm
Wheel size: all of them
Frame material: aluminum
Motor: Bosch CX, 500 Wh Intube battery
Drivetrain: Gates belt,14-speed Rohloff hub, electronic shifting, 526% ratio
Head angle: 63.5-degrees
Reach: 520mm (large)
Price: approx. $10,000 USD
More info: www.nicolai-bicycles.com, www.cyclemonkey.com
Intended use: all-mountain / enduro
Travel: 160mm
Wheel size: all of them
Frame material: aluminum
Motor: Bosch CX, 500 Wh Intube battery
Drivetrain: Gates belt,14-speed Rohloff hub, electronic shifting, 526% ratio
Head angle: 63.5-degrees
Reach: 520mm (large)
Price: approx. $10,000 USD
More info: www.nicolai-bicycles.com, www.cyclemonkey.com
I wouldn't call it pretty, but it is distinctive.
Every time a gearbox bike pops up somewhere, you're pretty much guaranteed to get a few wishful sounding comments about electronic shifting. Well, that 14-speed Rohloff hub on the back of this Nicolai is a gearbox, and it's controlled by Rohloff's electronic E-14 push-button system. There are two parts to it; the electronic shifter on the handlebar, and the shift control unit down at the hub that it talks to.
You can shift one gear at a time, of course, or it'll run through all fourteen in a ''fast sequence'' of three. Don't forget that you can shift a Rohloff hub while you're coasting, pedaling backward, upsidedown, or not moving at all. This electronically controlled one probably won't shift underwater, though.
All the bolts and all the geometry options.
The E-14 shifter talks to the Bosch Intuvia Performance system that controls the motor, and it's actually able to limit torque applied to the drivetrain when you shift. That shift takes just 180ms, by the way. The motor and rider's power is delivered by a Gates belt drive, while a burly-looking spring-loaded tensioner on the side of the motor keeps it under enough tension.
I feel like there was probably a sleeker solution to belt tension, but this setup is distinctly Nicolai and looks clever in a weird steampunk-ish way.
I'm not sure how many pounds all that adds up to, but I don't think it'd be fair to judge a bike like this by its weight. But it was heavy AF, if I'm honest. With it being a porker, having a wheelbase not far off an Australian land train, giant tires, and a downhill bike-like head angle, this is one 160mm-travel bike that's probably not bothered by a bit of rough terrain.
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I must be ignorant or dumb to not understand how a company having an e bike in their range somehow makes all their bikes undesirable.
So do you go looking for a bike, find one that fits perfect, looks great, rides awesome and has a good price... but wait they make an ebike!
Oh guess I’m buying my second choice that costs $500 more looks like crap rides “ok” and the fits a bit off?
Let’s say you take a nicley priced trek out for a ride... but shit they make an e bike,
Kona nope they make an e bike too
Rocky Mountain.. ebike
Giant.. same
Devinci... shit!
Cannondale... fu$&!
Gt..mother f$&&!!
Mondraker.. son of a...
Cube ......shit balls!
Polygon ...????
Well I guess I’m going to have to get a boutique brand! ( nothing wrong with that but for the average biker $2000+ for a frame only and $6000+ for a basic build is out of the budget)
That being said... Santa Cruz plz plz plz don't do it
It’s not like they have 5 year old kids wiring the battery’s, exploiting women and children for their pleasure, selling drugs to mentaly ill people, over pricing everyday essential food items so even a person with a decent wage can’t afford to stay out of debt...
All I’m saying is there are bigger problems with this world than e bikes.
All I can say is they are starting to look good to me!
At 30 I’m by no means old but I am getting more and more joint pain due to medical conditions. Every day I want to get out for a ride but end up not after thinking of the pain and effort of climbing up the hill.
Honestly I would probably get a lot more use out of an e bike and be in a bettter state of mental and physical health just
Getting up in the hills and clearing my mind and moving my joints.
@brytar: SC seems to have those Kranked bikes.
oh, rumour has it SC have one in the works too!
YT!!
GG Smash
SC is corporate AF now, they'll do it. Count on it.
I don't discriminate. There may be a time in my life when an ebike makes sense, like in another couple decades when my knees are nice n creaky.
Also, SC HTLT 2.0 w/ revised layout is gonna be sick.
holy balls i bet they'd sell alot of ebikes tho..... gotta pay Gwinny somehow..... coming soon.
Pivot , e bike. ( shuttle$
Specialized. e bike
Even santa cruz bikes are owned by a “ Dutch conglomerate “ owners of other brands including “Focus” that makes e bikes.
So were to draw the line??.
$3500 for a 46.7 lb hardtail, Recon fork, incorrect wheel size...... but the "riders" are wearing knee pads so you know it's siiiiiiick.
pon.bike
I really don’t understand the hate for them, just allows you to go further. And that’s not even thinking about riders that have actual issues with knees hips heart conditions that just couldn’t ride without one.
Nope there not for everyone an I’m def not saying you should be on one but if it make someone happy to be out on there bike then isn’t that person the same as you? Just happy to be on there bike
Oh and my prediction is 90% of the ebike haters on this site will all own one in 6 years. The consensus here is it's okay to shuttle a park or in a truck but an ebike is forbidden. Please.
Hey, good points oldish. A lot of folks haven't ridden them (myself included), and i think they have their place. Despite the fun factor and usefulness for some people the main concerns I hear are related to trail access. Yeah it would be a pita if i was passed on the climb by 50 eriders each ride, but I ride early am so the trails are rarely crowded. I do, however hope they never become mainstream for the "average" cyclist, whatever that mean. Access will just have to be taken on a trail by trail basis through the local user community and/or landowners. Here in Utah there are trails in Park City and Moab with 'no ebike' signs, which I'm okay with, though not sure how that would be enforced, especially for the dawn patrolers. I'm waiting until i'm 60+ to get one.
OVERPRICED
UNDERPREFORMING
PATHIC
MOTORCYCLE
Regarding your commnets:
Overpriced: ask a non rider if just a $1,000 (let alone $3000 plus for a decent one)is a lot for a mtn bike?
Under-preforming: They climb the unclimabmable and make rolly terrian and gnarly climbs way more fun. the long slow grinding climbs are now super fun to ride up.
Pathic: did you mean pathetic, if not, at least my eriders friends are not the passive males of greek mythology you may seek.
Motorcycle: 50% moto / 50% bicycle ... but way more fun then the moto in my opinion
I can feel my neurones committing suicide one by one whenever I try to read it.
Your argument makes ZERO logical sense so far.
Maybe they will start the UCI uphill challenge for all you ebike loving lazy sloths that cannot carry your own weight.
Santa Cruz is just lazy at this point to not redesign the platform. Nothing like a dead, muted ride, with no character at all, but its marketed nicely with a great paint job.
Pinkbike is trying to normalize ebikes as mountain bikes in... one day?
"NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS JUST AN ELECTRICALLY SHIFTED GEARBOX."
Aggressive plan.
Better ask for the stock options stat!
Ebikes are AMAZING car replacements, in the form of cargo bikes. They're also fantastic for getting out on moto trails that are no fun on normal pedal bikes. There are many more miles of moto trails in the US than there are bike trails. I plan to add an e mtb to my quiver so I can climb more shit and do more vert in a day and spend more time on my bike instead of walking up unrideable shit. The fools who down voted you are probably just nervous that they would get on an ebike and not be able to do anything cool. I know plenty of dudes (ex pro mtbers, ex pro mxers, etc) who have ebikes and would smoke 99.9% of these internet on ANY two wheeled devices, up or down.
There is no “downtime” on a crosser!!! Same can’t be said for an ebike!!
www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/study-shows-e-bike-riders-sweat-three-times-less-normal-bike-riders-392699/amp
@makripper:
I have a kx450, and the opportunity to ride around here is minimal as there is nowhere to legally ride it and you can't be sneaky on it because it is loud af. Plus compared to loading the mtb onto the vehicle the kx450 is a pain in the ass.
Ebikes an alternative to motos rather than an alternative to mtb??
What matters more, not just for staying alive past 60 but living the longest possible life, is consistent cardio exercise over many years—right up until the moment of your death. It doesn't have to be at the insane level that most cyclists train and ride at. That's overkill. We do it for other reasons. Hell, I still ride a hardtail *because I like it.*
So, e-bikes can be fantastic for people who want to be optimally healthy (longest possible lifespan, etc), but not necessarily have the greatest athletic performance, which, again, is different.
FWIW even though I've never ridden an e-bike I would think it's a how much you put in thing, you could work hard on a regular bike or take it easy, ditto an e-bike?
Not to mention...I am seeing a lot of signs now banning e-bikes like this from trails. Soon...people may only be able to ride e-bikes on dirt bike trails anyway so...just buy a dirt bike.
Man I wish these things would just go away already. Either you want a dirt bike or you want a bicycle. This in between thing, to me, is for someone too soft to ride a dirt bike and/ or to soft to pedal a mountain bike. E-Bikes are the product of the "everyone gets a trophy" generation.
But KTM messed up big time by building the e-motos off the Freeride platform; 67.5˚ HTA. What is this 1990s? Alta gets it right by building an electric dirt bike from the start.
e-bikes are the cable actuated disc brake equivalent.
This dude isn't riding an e-bike...maybe your grandfather should man up!
I get your argument about allowing a 75 yo person to ride with their grand kids. However, I would argue that, people riding e-bikes puts trail access to non-e-bike riders in jeopardy.
E-bikes are a gray area and as a result, land owners/ state governments are quick to remove access from all 2 wheel traffic...because bikes now blur the line between motorized and human powered. This is land access that NON E-Bike cycling advocates likely fought for over the course of decades! Now E-Bike riders show up on the scene and ride on trails ACTUAL cycling advocates fought for...and risk getting them closed for everyone.
If you ask me...people riding e-bikes are leaches not advocates. Maybe what should happen is, all trails should be closed down to E-Bikes and e-bike riders can fight for access rights like the non E-Bike riders did for decades before them.
Lets see, this.... OR a KTM 450... let me think...
It's just an ebike. No judgment, no hate. It's an ebike.
Not having gripshift on a gearbox has to be a step forward right?
On the other end of the spectrum are people, who are much younger, purchasing these things, and in some cases modifying them to ride like a$$holes. If you google "Deregulated E-Bike" there are countless web pages/ videos not only showing examples of deregulated e-bikes but showing one how to deregulate an e-bike.
Now the problem is, both the a$$holes and your grandfather fall into the same e-bike category whether you agree or not. Not because your grandfather is an a$$hole but because there are no formal ground rules policing these things so the sky is the limit.
There are deregulated E-mtb's out there capable of going over 30 mph! On most singletrack trail, that gives average Joe A-hole the ability to override the trail. On the types of singletrack we ride, a dirtbike would be capable of going that speed not a mountain bike. The trails we ride on are shared use too BTW...so some inexperienced dick going 30+ on a deregulated E-mtb hits a hiker...that is how every mountain biker looses trail access.
We obviously have two different opinions on this. I'm not going to see it your way and you aren't going to see it my way. Time will tell what ultimately happens but...I would like to see these things BANNED from all shared use trails until someone figures out how they can be regulated. Perhaps one solution would be...have each state inspect them to ensure they are properly regulated to 15 mph max? That way...they can truly just help assist you on climbs.
You want to talk about having a positive impact...advocate for e-bike regulation before all e-bikes are banned OR WORSE...everyone is banned. Thankfully, some of the bigger trail networks in my area already have signage posted banning e-bikes. I hope it continues until someone figures out how to police these things in the mtb realm.
Lastly, I've ridden one of these before...so I am not clueless to how they operate. I've demo'ed the first version of the Specialized Turbo. I get their place as a commuter bike. Less effort if commuting into the office, the ability to keep better pace with traffic, cleaner than a car/ moto, etc. But on the road, there are rules...posted rules...and law enforcement. On the trail there is not. So at least there is SOMETHING policing these things on the road. For now, my view is that these things have a place on the streets as commuters...NOT in the woods.
I guess just expanding on my post below...it isn't people like your grandfather who are the problem. It's how these bikes are being marketed and modified. They are being marketed as "Ride faster, longer, and further". The last 3 marketing vids I watched showed professional mountain bikers absolutely ripping on these things. They don't show someone being enabled to ride who otherwise would maybe struggle on a non-assist bike.
At the end of the day, maybe something else you and your grandpa could share in is advocating for regulation of these things, openly condemning people with modded e-bikes on shared access trails, and spreading knowledge of what these bikes are and aren't before they are all out and out banned.
As for me, I am not going to advocate for these things because I don't believe in them and I feel they have the potential to ruin it for the masses. Some people just weren't meant to go fast on 2 wheels ESPECIALLY if they didn't work for it...and e-bikes enable that...IMO.
If you're ever racing on the east coast, I'll keep my eye out for the dude on a hardtail passing me in stage. I'm not going to hold my breath though because, from the sounds of your post you are full of sh!t.
If you want a motorcycle, there is many options from 50cc to 450cc... with a lot of fun and gas response.
No, Nicolai was always ahead of the curve with geometry. I had my M-Pire at 62.5deg back in 2006 when most were still around 66. 67deg on their 4x hardtails when everyone was at 69-70 still with downsized XC frames or oversized BMX bikes. Also longer bikes than normal. Always ahead of the curve, not wacky.
No comment on the Ebike side of things......
......just sayin!!
... And it's cheaper
If it was electrically shifted it would have a high current from a battery to a shifter button which when pressed would complete a circuit and operate a small motor to shift the gears (Slow process and parts would burn out quickly due to the amps across the switch - ala pre-modern electronically controlled everything) electronically shifted means you can use smaller electrical currents to a switch pack which then signals your intension to shift the gear when a button is pressed and as long as the control ECU see's the correct parameters it would then electronically switch a higher current (Quickly and safely so as not to burn out contacts ) to shift the gears
*Well that's how I see it
Even with your description about high current across the shifterbutton your thinking about 1800’s electric circuits. Even so, there are switches that can switch very high currents for millions of cycles. In this case the currents aren’t high anyways. And no, even if it was pure electric, things wouldn’t burn out quickly????????. There are still plenty of things that operate this way in our world. Ever heard of a relay?!
Electronic control but electric actuation, got it? You can design a full electric circuit to make it shift (no electronics) but you cannot make an full electronic circuit to make it shift (you will not have the primary shifting device without the electric actuator). That’s the differentiator.
Obviously the actuator is powered 'Electrically' (I was keeping it high level for you) but the shifting control is done 'electronically' as per the headline. Modern switches are pretty much all low voltage/ low current signals from the 'switch' (which could be capacitive/ micro/ hall types) that the ECU then evaluates and 'electronically' switches a transistor/ relay within the control ECU (faster than you could press an 'electric' switch) to operate the actuator....as you say 'Electrically'
Yes I have heard of relays ...and have replaced many a relay when they burnt out the contactors or the switching circuit (Generally 80-100 Ohms resistance) failed due to age/ temperature (designed to last for millions of cycles but sometimes barely last the limited warranty) - check out modern cars, there are maybe a handful of relays at most (Windows, main relay, fuel pump if you're lucky) everything is electronic switched now because it's evolved that way to be packaged smaller/ made more reliable/ consume less power etc etc
I agree a switch can switch high loads for lots (maybe not millions) of cycles BUT not one designed for use on a bicycle....why would they??
*I work on both Low and High voltage electrical/ electronic automotive systems so no need to give me lesson in how electrical components/ circuits work (but thanks anyway I'm always open learning)
P.S leave another comment if you'd like but I wont be responding....gonna ride my bike instead
And you get a real motorcycle not this frankenbike abomination.
its gotta throw roosts coming out of the loose stuff!
(I assume you don't like them
Correct, for e-mtbs at least. A pedal assist or full blown electric motorcycle is a great idea for commuting, especially as more power generation comes from renewable/clean sources.
And where is the water bottle cage??
You are left with deep emptiness on your regular MTB. Your natural reward center that challenges you to climb to new heights goes away and your left with beer belly. Sadly future awaits us all - next we will have ABS, traction control and object avoidance. Human aspect will be washed away with a servo motor controller by a digital signals processssor tied to an algorithm that takes human element out of biking.