French Government Introduces €30k Fine for eMTB Tuning
The French government has announced that rider who tune their ebikes above the legislated speeds can face a €30k fine. For eMTBs, that means that speeds must be kept at a 25km/h limit.
The law came in as Highway Code provision L317-1 was adjusted last week to include ebikes. On top of the hefty fine, the perpetrator will receive 3 points on their license, the vehicle will be confiscated until it has been returned to normal working order and they could even face a year in jail.
There are also new regulations for professionals working in the eMTB industry too. L317-5 covers manufacturers, importers and those who rent or sell ebikes and threatens punishment of €30,000 or 2 years in prison for anyone found to be breaking the EU limits.
eMTB tuning has become a hot issue in Europe recently after a man in London hit and killed a woman crossing the road on an ebike that was capable of going 30mph (48km/h) but was cleared of all charges. Industry associations in Spain and Germany have also called for stronger action to be taken on users of tuned ebikes.
Previously it was seen as pretty easy to tune an ebike with kits available for sale just a quick Google search away. However, Bosch have begun to take action and introduced an anti-tuning system to its 2020 models. Claus Fleischer, Bosch CEO told Bike.eu: "The new system developed by Bosch engineers is using a sensor to detect whether the e-bike’s drive has been tuned. In that case, the e-bike’s computer will turn in an emergency mode. An error code will show on the display indicating the manipulation and the electric support will be reduced.” If the error state is reached 3 times, riders will have to take their bike to a Bosch dealership to be diagnosed.
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As someone that works in a shop, I'm so tired of eebers coming in with issues that have been created because of chipping/tuning. And because there's no concrete way of proving it, more often than not we have to suck it up.
Most riders of proper bikes understand that sometimes the bike will go wrong and it's almost always down to wear and tear of just the way they're riding. The vast majority of eebers are folk getting back into riding and generally have no mechanical sympathy, do no basic maintenance (cleaning/lubing), so when the bike goes wrong they come in screaming bloody murder and demanding everything under warranty.
And after the shitty weather we've had all winter my local loop is destroyed because they can keep lugging their way through it. Earn your turns you C-units
People breaking their equipment because of these modifications isn't good for your business nor is it good for the motor manufacturers. It is never good for your reputation when your stuff breaks. Mechanics and their own service centers are wasting time figuring out what's wrong when the customer plainly refused to admit they messed with the equipment. So for Bosch to be able to simply read that out from the software saves them a huge amount of time and hassle. And they attract the good customers and repel the bad ones.
As for the different mentality, I honestly don't know because I don't really know anyone riding an eMTB. However I can imagine it to be true. Back in the days you were prepared that stuff would break. And you knew how to maintain and fix stuff. The beauty of a bike is that it is all quite transparent. You can see what's going on and improvise a solution. So that may have attracted an audience with a DIY mentality. And also an audience that accepts "ok, I had fun, messed up, I'm going to deal with it". With electronics, we now have more black boxes. At least I wouldn't know how to work on a motor, AXS, Di2 etc if it doesn't perform. So at least for now that's keeping me away from such systems. It is probably great when it works and I'd feel stupid when it doesn't. I think to adopt such systems requires a different mindset. To rely on that it works and when it doesn't, rely on others to fix that for you. So yeah, I suppose that attracts an audience with a certain mindset that might clash with the "DIY" audience. I wouldn't say this goes for all of them. I can imagine those who don't mess with the electronics of their e-bike and follow your recommendations about cleaning and lubing simply keep riding and you just end up seeing them less. So that may of course colour the image you got from your emtb audience.
@WAKIdesigns: You are no longer qualified to say anything about Scandinavia, sorry. What's the situation like in Fiji?
I have no issues working on ebikes... My objection is with a minority of owners who chip/tune them and then come into the shop with issues directly caused by mods they have done. They always bullshit that they haven't just like the classic JRA warranty claims. We're not stupid, just be honest with us and then its much easier to help 'you' out.
The big difference is cars also have insurance to pay for their stupid mistakes. Bicycles and with them speed limited ebikes do not and are not required to.
So if you want to go over 32 kph here in BC you are considered a motorcycle and must have insurance/turnsignals etc...just like other road users.
More then 25km/h assist on e-bike is bad.
Cam Zink driving a Porsche like a penis with ears is ok.
If it's €30K for derestricting a 40 lb e-bike to go over 25 km/h (when a weak roadie can easily average 30 km/h) why is it only a few hundred € (I'm assuming, I don't know what French speeding fines are like) to speed on a 4-500 lb motorbike or a several thousand lb car.
Also, what happens to the poor cyclist that puts 2.3 tires on their e-bike that was calibrated for 2.1 tires and gets radared going 26 or 27 by the Gendarmes?
It sounds like a fine that wouldn't pass a challenge in court.
I have absolutely no problem with ebikes on the road. But if they go over 32 km they should have insurance and licence as per current laws.
I get what you're saying, there has to be a line between bicycles and motorbikes but I feel like if an average cyclist can exceed the e-bike limit it's probably a bit low.
A thirty thousand Euro fine is excessive when you consider the fines for speeding in a motor vehicle in France are orders of magnitude less (looks like it's 135 Euros if this article is to be believed www.insurance4carhire.com/blog/driving-guides/what-you-need-to-know-about-speeding-fines-in-europe) and that's in a vehicle that has a much greater chance of killing someone if the operator makes a mistake.
I would disagree that an average cyclist can maintain a speed of 32 km. Enthusiasts yes but not average.
People have been getting fine for speeding on bikes for years. But since the advent of eebs speeding has been far for common and of those the majority will have been chipped/tuned.
Yes I agree.
If you're not gonna do your maintenance, you should be fined and thrown in jail.
One day you'll have REAL problems to worry about.
My whole point has been about eebers causing issues on their bikes directly related to chipping, which they try to claim as a warranty issue and demand the fix for free.
Some of our customers are totally upfront about it and understand the warranty consequences, but they're also the ones who are more likely to get their hands dirty when it comes to maintenance.
Depends on the tuning. I have a 2,300, but it's limited to Class C speed in Ohio. Ohio is only a speed limited state.
Even a 2,300w has issues in heavy winds and uphill. Bikes don't have VIN numbers, so specialized licenses will be an issue in every state if your suggestion were to be put in place.
Of course they won’t, what’s the point.
I think the 32 kph limit in the US makes a lot more sense.
On the road in Europe you've got two different limits. 25km/h for bikes allowed to go everywhere regular bikes are allowed to go. And 45km/h for faster e-bikes but these can't go everywhere (typically not places where mopeds can't go either). For commuting of course that's good enough. If you're in such a rush that you need to exceed 25km/h and don't want to do so under your own power, you could just as well stick to the bigger roads. As for pulling a trailer full of kids though, double check what it says in the trailer manual. I doubt the trailer is allowed to be pulled faster than 25km/h. So claiming the 25km/h limit is dumb seems to be pot and kettle matter.
I'd suggest you try and work with the motor a bit more. If you try to ride at its limit everywhere you'll experience much more annoying cut outs. Try riding according to the conditions... if you're in traffic I'd be more worried about that than trying to be a 25/32kph.
And if you're towing kids surely their safety is paramount, not your need to be going at top speed.... unless you're Danny Mac
Working into bicycle for years, I`ve often heard that EU would probably apply the 30kph limitation instead of the 25, but years have passed and nothing happened. It`s pityful.
What is pityful and stupid as well is the fact of banning 30/35/35/40/45kph e-bikes just because of a lethal accident once or twice sometimes. In this case, governments have to ban motorbikes, cars, mopeds, scooters, swimming-pools, planes, trains, skiing, paragliding..... and breathing as well, `cos breathing can be lethal, especially in this period!!!
Also: 25kph is too few. 45kph is too much: here these kinds of e-bikes are not allowed on cycling lanes but on normal roads, a moto helmet is compulsory, as well as an insurance and a registration plate.... but most byers and users of those bikes don`t respect the rules, and of course, when an accident happens, the whole community is stigmatized...
It's similar if you tune/modify your car without declaring it on your insurance.
Also any bike will go over 25kmh, even if you've never ridden a bike before - at least once anyway.
-> Who can do more can do less, question of modulation and ressources, and it helps. And it`s not because you get a Posche that you drive at 200kph.
``If you want to ride 30-35, get a bloody road bike mate, OR stay on the road with cars.``
-> Everybody can`t or don`t ride road bikes for many reasons, and staying on the road with cars... well...
... sometimes I really think that your rectum is too close to your skull when I read such kind of ``thoughts``.
On the road with cars/buses/logging trucks is our reality here mate. Which is why slower is not necessarily safer.
So we are in the traffic with cars that are going quite fast. My experience is that going slower often is not safer (I'm a pathetic MTBer, but been commuting for 25 odd years).
But real issue for me is those cut outs, which occur at that speed I'm basically always riding at, trailer or not.
You could say ditch the motor, but I'm pretty glad it's there for those headwind days.
And again, there is no ban on riding faster than 25km/h at all. You just aren't getting assistance if you're on a bike designed to ride amidst unassisted cyclists. If you want to go faster, pedal faster. No one holding you back, only your own strength and fitness.
@WAKIdesigns : It definitely helps to see different perspectives. Obviously as kids before we had driver licences, we had no idea what motorists had to deal with so we just rode fast and squeezed our bikes in between wherever seemed fastest. Later I learned to drive a car and that opened my eyes to what cars can and can't do, what envelope they operate within. I actually got quite an elaborate driving lesson package because I felt learning to drive a car seemed to be the most scary thing. Because unlike everything I had done until then, it felt like it was the first thing where failure is not an option. Hitting a tree at 120km/h sure must feel different than hitting a tree on your bike at 30km/h. So I got a package that includes skidding, more technique and also a ride in a big truck, just to get a perspective of what it is like up there. So yeah, that helps. And obviously over here all motorists also understand what riding a bike is like, most understand what it is like to ride with a kid (on your own bike or guiding a little kid on a little bike through traffic). So they adapt. I feel that helps. Your description of Denmark surprises me. I thought the place was quite similar to what we have here (in The Netherlands). But even though cyclists also here will always be crossing red lights in general they ride such that they avoid affecting others. Now the new challenge actually happens to be that people seem to have trouble staying off their cellphones. Doesn't match well with me, who f*cking hates cellphones in pretty much all situations.
It`s probably not appliable to every cases, but a recent french study showed that the average speed for a car in a city is actually.... 11kph..... which is absolutely ridiculous and confirms that cars are the worst way of transport for urban purposes. Btw, bicycles are heading the study with an average speed of 19kph, better than everything else including buses and subways.
Nevertheless, when cars are in motion - sometimes they are, between 2 traffic lights, jams, and various incidents - the observed average speed is 32/33kph, even if cities are limited to whether 50kph, or 30kph in the city centers.
I`m not the scientist who made those studies but living in a little big city with lots of traffic and cars, I noticed that when you ride amongst cars, if you`re at 20/25kph, cars are tempted to overtake and they often do, risking many things for you, for them, for the others. I have no e-bike but a ``muscular``like they say now, and I mostly ride between 20 and 30kph. When I ride nearly 30kph, I actually noticed that cars stay behind be and are more patient let`s say. We are more in harmony, everything is more fluid and synchronized. Anxiety is lower, almost everybody finds it fine and reaches one`s goal in the best conditions, respectfully.
Then, once again, I`m not living in a perfect world, and probably things could be better with 70% less cars on the streets. But that`s a matter of mentalities... and politics, and we`re far from that paradise ;-)
@vinay: next time you are in Copenhagen stand near the edge of a bike path... or when in Gothenburg, try cross the main street, Allén on rush hour. Car won’t kill you, two lanes of trams won’t kill you, car lane again won’t, but then you’ll hear ding! Ding! And if you won’t move a bike will hit you at whatever speed it was going 20 km/h. And you know what folks say? You’re on bike path, it’s your fault. If some pedestrian bumps into you on the pavement they will say sorry, if a car will brake in front of you as you are passing the street on red light, they won’t horn. But a cyclist will always tell you to get the hell out of the way if you happen to cross a bike path in front of them. Maybe ride into you.
As for these studies, I think it matters hugely where you're riding. The situations we have on bicycle lanes here (with most people, kids, elderly, heavy commuters etc riding unassisted), 25km/h is by no means to slow to be safe. Those conditions you're talking about where your amidst cars, if 25km/h is too slow then wouldn't it just be allowed to ride a fast e-bike there (limited to 45km/h)? Get one of those (if you can't reach the required speed unassisted) and you'd be fine. Having them capped at 45km/h doesn't necessarily imply people will ride 45km/h where 30km/h is the speed limit. Cars technically can go faster and they (mostly) contain themselves too.
Where it seems to go wrong in this discussion here is that some people view the e-bike as an alternative to a car. A fast e-bike is. But a regular e-bike (capped at 25km/h) is intended as an alternative to a regular bike. Intended to go the same places hence is designed to fit in. With all limitations that go with that. And yes, that also implies that for some, pedal assist doesn't bring any advantage. On my faster commuter (the one with the Nexus 8 speed hub) I easily exceed 25km/h under my own steam. Pedal assist does make sense of course would make sense if I want to arrive fresh. Also on the way back home if I immediately want to go out for an actual mountainbike session after work. Or if it is really windy and I can't go fast unassisted. Or if I'd live in a very hilly area where indeed some hills take me too long to climb.
So yeah basically there is a place for the fast e-bikes and there is a place for the regular ones. And of course there is enough room for riding unassisted. Choose wisely. Get the wrong category one and you may end up underwhelmed. Because you don't properly fit in your traffic or instead because you're not allowed to ride the beautiful mellow paths that you're allowed to ride on on your unassisted bike.
If we are talking emountain bikes they seem to mostly be expensive and well made.
E-bikes are zooming past the normal bike riders in the cycle lanes so we don't need them to go any faster.
Guess I'm failing to put my point across, but if you try one of these ebikes one day (do it!), you'll probably get where I'm coming from.
Worth mentioning too that in NZ the limit is on output power, not speed. Although arguably no bike brand will tailor specifically for our tiny market.
I am commuting every single day of the year (30km a day), on roads and bicycle paths. I ride my muscular bike at +/- 30km/h on roads and it's OK with the traffic.
But, on bicycle paths, I have to deal with slower people (canal du midi, Toulouse), so I slow down.
And here come the problems when a*sholes are driving at more than 25km/h. There are of course all the roadies who think they train for the tour de France. But you also have 2 kinds of e-commuter:
1/ the new one who drive like if they were on holiday, thinking they are the only ones and not checking what's going on around. I doubt they even know where the brakes are. Got hit by someone once.
2/ the f*cking ones who tune their bike and go 40-50km/h. They are basically bullets. Those ones deserve to go to jail.
Peloton of roadies on cycle paths at high speed are a danger. Conversion kit can't do anything against that, I agree. Laws can, but that's another story.
But, the fat ass that cross me regularly at 50 kmh couldn't do it without a conversion kit. There are at least 3 converted bikes that have appeared since last year on my daily commuting.
Kidding aside, that may be what caused the silly high fine. To keep chip tuning at bay they need to introduce a certain risk. Risk is defined as the product of likelihood and consequence. As likelihood of getting caught isn't too high, they just increased the consequence.
The law is very clear. Altering the function of a speed limiting device in ANY vehicle is forbidden and can lead to the 30K€ fine mentioned here. The vehicle can also be confiscated.
This law has existed for a while, and the only new thing is that ebikes are now included among the other vehicles.
So now you gotta ban all bikes going over 25kph. Just so we can protect everyone equally.
This is just incentive to ride and maintain my current bike for as long as possible, and spend my money on my car + track days. No speed/power limits with cars or motorcycles!
Not a blanket 2 years and thats it.
And its only that for shops or businesses that are selling/providing/fitting the mod.
What would a moped be, than?
Do you need a licence to ride a bicycle in France??
25 km/h is plenty for commuting in a congested city/in bike lanes, which is where most ebikes are being used. 32 is a little more reasonable imo, but in places like Amsterdam, Copenhagen or other cities with huge parts of the population commuting in crowded bike lanes, 25 is fine.
I think 25km/h is a bit low - I think our US limit for class 1 bikes of 32 km/h is more appropriate. That's still quite a bit faster than the other (non-assisted) bikes on the bike path, but it's pretty close to in-town traffic speeds (so it's not quite as suicidal getting onto a road). Pretty reasonable compromise.
As for off-road use - the US, that's all up to the landowner/manager. But a lot of those will be looking at what's legal in traffic to have some sort of guidance to prevent the mayhem. The speed limit, btw, is not for the bike itself - it's for when the assist cuts out. Yes, you regularly go faster than 20mph on your non-assisted MTB, as do I and most people - but we do it with gravity assist. An eMTB will be just as fast on the downhill (if not faster, being heavier), it's just that the motor won't assist anymore. Given that most gravity trails have tons of braking bumps, I don't think anybody's going to miss that assist on the descents...
I'll just assume you're angry about your limp dick. No hard feelings.
Do you know if there's a way for riders to register their bikes as class 2(or whatever their classification would be) so that they can exceed that meager limit without fear of fines?
Class 1 is pedal assist up to 32km/h.
Class 2 Throttle only up to 32km/h.
Class 3 Throttle only up to 45km/h.
Class 3 only requires that you have a spedo and be over the age of 16, here. Love my Class 3.
Also, the people who do this should just step it up and get a real motorcycle!
She was ok but, pays to look and if one is to jay walk, then try to not do it from in front of a parked vehicle that obscures the traffics view of you.
It can happen, but here in Finland in the less populated parts, I think for commuting, 40kp/h assisted would be good. It is the speed limit they use for kids on mopeds / scooters and low capacity dirt bikes. Those bikes can use the road and they can use shared walking and cycling paths. Would be good to have an extra mode on the bike for street use. On the trail, not sure if it is such an issue but I think on flat transitions 32 kp/h like in the US, would be a little more sane.
I understand un-assisted cyclists in urban environments can be dicks to everything around them but that is mainly due to them not wanting the workout frequently getting up to their cruise speed. They prefer to accelerate once and not to have to do it again. Hence the f-you, get outta my way mentality. They are lazy. Putting them on assisted bikes might make them less assholish as the precious dears wouldn't have to sweat as much slowing to avoid pedestrians or other dangerous situations.
My personal rule of thumb is the smaller vehicle gets right of way and this is how I deal with pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists, cars and trucks. The larger you are the more damage you do at speed. Be curtious and respectful of all users but more so look out for the smaller ones. On the trail, if I come across hikers, I will yield for them and or ask politely for them to yield to me. So it is.
A second best outcome - motor drag will need to be eliminated at the cut out point.
it's not about eMTB, but about all electric devices, like e-scooters etc., driven by mindless unexperienced kids/people on pavements with speeds above >25km/h !!
bad it affects us as well ....
Once the government gets a taste of that money from fines they'll come to rely on it and lower the limits and increase enforcement all the while telling you it's to "keep you safe."
When I'm in Manhattan the majority of bike vs pedestrian conflicts I see is because of the phone zombies with their heads buried. It's either morons on their phones, or tourist morons staring up at the buildings.
What’s the fine for littering in CA, again?
To my experience, the U.S. do not have more “freedom” in any aspect whatsoever - with the exception of owning guns.
Nobody who chips a bike will ever do that. So they just ride around at the speed they deem ok, uninsured.
Cam Zink got a shitstorm on here for crossing a few double yellow lines in his Porsche, so obviously people on here care about sticking to the rules very much, but with e-bikes, breaking them is ok?
I don’t know about your area, but around here the trails most frequented by ebikers look like a motocross race just happened already, there’s absolutely no need for even more power.
Nope riden them. Power assist cuts off just as your get going and and the bike won't go any faster without riding of a cliff or having the legs off a Olympic roady. It's just a 25kg bike after that to pedal Zzzzz .
My descent times don’t seem to have suffered for running an ebike. Still around my the same as my dh times and I’m reasonably fast.
I actually hate running mine with the motor on whilst descending so always turn it off. It saves battery for the climbs too which is a bonus.
Honestly the real danger is the increase of people traveling up down trails at high rates of speed because climbing up down trails is fun now. And that's not really any different here. 15mph up a down is no safer than 20mph up a down. People just need to pay attention and start riding with bells more. Hikers need to take their freakin head phone off and riders need to look ahead.
If people use common sense the increase in danger really isn't much higher. Just don't be stupid.
Like 10 years in prison for possessing a plant.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_2LuhRQgQ