With myriad prototype downhill bikes under his belt at this point, Neko Mulally has been hard at work dialing his designs, honing in on the construction methods and suspension kinematics that perform best on track. As either a byproduct or fellow intention to that effort, he focused some time on the shorter travel end of the spectrum, and the initial result is what you see here. Fittingly dubbed the Trail Bike, this 160mm machine is meant for a bit of everything, intended to pedal as well as it can while still maintaining descending prowess.
Frameworks Trail Bike Details
• Aluminum front triangle and chainstays
• Mixed wheel size
• 160mm suspension (170 w/ longer shock)
• 160mm or 170mm fork
• 64° head angle
• 480mm reach
• 455mm chainstay
• 80.8° seat angle
Pardon the crude screenshot, but it paints the picture well.
Sized to fit Neko, his outstanding junior racer Asa, and his mechanic Anxo, the Trail Bike has fairly neutral geometry numbers that are adaptable and suited to a wide variety of terrain. There are a couple extreme standout numbers, such as the 80.8° seat angle and the 455mm chainstays, but for the most part things aren't too out of the ordinary.
Construction-wise, the frame carries a lot of details over from the downhill bike, with the tubing spec, gussets, and carbon stays doing double duty between the two frames. Due to the clearances of a trail bike drivetrain, the carbon chainstays from the DH bike couldn't be used, but that's a change that will likely come with the next version of the Trail Bike, to reduce weight and play into the overall frame stiffness. Some of the most impressive details are the CNC-milled elements on the frame, such as the bottom bracket - main pivot - shock mount cluster, which makes for a more elegant look while also increasing the ease of manufacturing.
Ride ImpressionsI get the opportunity to ride a lot of bikes, and have grown pretty used to the learning curve and adaptation period that happens when you jump on a new bike. Typically, after a couple rides and some tweaking, you're in a pretty solid place to start pushing the bike. I took the Frameworks bike out for a first lap in the Whistler Bike Park and immediately started pushing the pace and checking off features, with a feeling of confidence I don't typically have on a first ride. Sounds like high praise, and it is, but I think a fair bit of this is due to the similarity between the Frameworks Trail Bike and the Santa Cruz Nomad, which I've been riding a ton this summer.
The geometry is well sorted, with modern yet reasonable angles and measures all around. The head angle can be slackened out by about half a degree by moving to a 170mm fork, which would also make the comfortable stack height even more elevated - this might be the move for people who like a more defensive position while riding steep terrain, though I never found the 160mm fork terribly lacking when things got vertical. The 480mm reach pairs very nicely with the 455mm chainstays, giving you a very planted and mobile feel within the bike. I like the pocket of space this gives you to move your weight around, without feeling like you're pulling the bike out of its happy place.
Unsurprisingly, the 80° seat tube angle puts you in an almost comically upright position, but it makes climbing the bike a breeze. Since you're sitting right in the middle of things, the suspension doesn't cycle very much, which was welcomed to me as the spring weight on the bike was definitely a bit light for me.
One very impressive attribute was just how active the suspension remained under braking, with the bike riding relatively high and maintaining excellent grip even when I was yanking on the brakes. This allows for the chassis to take hits when you're bearing down steeper sections of trail without packing in too deep. For folks who like to be back on their heels in steeps, this might feel a bit daunting, but I really enjoy the sensation.
The bike wasn't dead quiet, but a big part of that was just long cables tapping against the frame, which is fairly resonant given the large tube diameters. Overall the frame feels robust, stiff, and smooth, with truly excellent suspension performance. I'm looking forward to spending more time on this one, hopefully that can come soon.
Build DetailsThis is far from a production bike, so the parts kit is interesting and well considered for the needs of serious racing and riding.
At the moment, the Trail Bike isn't for sale, as development is still ongoing. However, Frameworks do have plans to sell downhill frames next year, so hopefully that means the Trail Bike will follow suit.
There are plenty more photos to check out here, should you be compelled.
That new FW bike has definite Burner DH DNA as well as 1998-99 Turner Afterburner DNA. The two versions of the RFX and the one version of the Six Pack came after the Afterburner and were sort of an All-Mountain / Enduro version of the Afterburner (BTW, I think “Enduro” was first used by Intense in 1998 on their Uzzi DH frame with Horst link rear end; the alternative to the beefy Team / DH single-pivot swingarm).
Below are some of the Burner DH variants, Burners w/DH links, Afterburners, etc. The silver Burner DH links made by Frank The Welder have a clear resemblance to the new FW links, 28 years on. So yeah, being that Dave Turner doesn’t make rocker link bikes nor MTB’s anymore, this new FW bike is the closest thing we have to a 2023 Turner mountain bike =)
www.pinkbike.com/u/WRCDH/album/Turners
In essence, a Horst link allows the designer to create an axle path that can be somewhat different than the rotation of the chainstay.
Good examples of a Horst would be a Norco Optic or Specialized Stumpjumper Evo. A good example of a single pivot with a four-bar arrangement to drive the shock would be any of the Commencals other than those new Tempo bikes they're making.
Lots of designs offer axle path differently from the single pivot, and are all four bar, with recently being launched more and more 6 bar designs.
5 Dev
Dave Turner should get way more credit. I owned a Hl 5 Spot and Flux, and a non- HL, 4 bar free ride bike (burner? RFX?) And they were fracking awesome
I Think this freedom will lead to a great design with significant advantages over the conventional competition
PS yes current bikes are mostly good but thats also based on comparing them to older designs. Lets see how we view the current design in 10 years and if we still think that they where good.
And just look at it - uninterrupted seat tube to eliminate dropper length headaches, super steep seat angle for civilized winching, Probably heavy AF too but you know how much that held him back? Nada.
I need this bike in my life.
Dms on his Instagram of people saying it was better. So idk what’s up with Paul Aston but he’s gone nuts. He gets mad when stock out of the box stuff isn’t as good as a 2k fork with 2k In upgrades works
I think it looks damn good actually.
If they were using a longer frame reach, as I do (as I'm taller than the average of the 3x people this bike is designed for, plus I ride a shorter stem + a more swept back bar for personal comfort) then I would like to see a proportionally longer CS - then the longer wheelbase I like is simply a result of those numbers.
Personally, I also like a slacker HA, but that is more related to the rider's height in my opinion: taller rider can benefit from a slacker HA due to reducing weight shift under braking/in steeps from their higher CoG.
My bikes are the funnest bikes I've ever rode. I love riding bikes and have made 3x similar ones in a row. Do you think I'm deliberately going out of my way to ride boring bikes and ruin my riding time?
Come over to ride them if you like: I'll accommodate you, feed you, and take you riding at the local park. As long as we can document it for a video?
The amount of stuff I have spent my own money on to test and it didn't work out of the box is silly. I believe all suspension sent to the media to test for free will have been checked/prepped beforehand and is often different to what comes out of a box, so I buy it and give a real customer's opinion.
I just try to help you guys to decide where to spend your money, and it is always better to go to a reputable tuner who will strip, check, and tune the product for you to maximize valuable riding time:
- NSR-tuned Boxxer will cost you a few hundred more than a stock Boxxer to get actual (from Stevie Smith's ex-wrench) WC performance tuned to your weight and speed.
-Dorado RRT is €2600 for a fully tuned and prepped forked, where it retails at €1970.
I think anybody spending that amount of money on a fork would be able to stump up the little extra to get something that works perfectly from Day 1.
My steel frame cost €1800
My Ti frame cost €3700
My Radical Replica cost €3000. Anybody can order a frame from Egerie, and looking at those prices are essentially cheaper than anything you can buy production-wise. Which is why I bought them and not any more production bikes that I have lost money on every time - if you want to stump up the cash for some production bikes for me to review I would not say no!
Modded suspension adds approx. 20-30% to the product price. So well worth the extra money if you have it. Or buy a used product and send it to a reputable tuner.
The initial Geometron and Pole Bikes I praised a lot, I got abused on here a lot, then look a the geometry of the average bikes now (7/8 years on) and they are extremely similar.
It's more the shitting on other products that irks me, But you seem to really break stuff so there is some truth to your words. Watching your latest vid on that track in the alps, you sure are riding hard/fast enough.
For what it's worth, I'm about your height, I'm on a bike with 1340mm WB, 63deg HA and 462mm Chainstay and life is good, I love the bike, the "out there" geometry works.
I don't try to trash stuff, I just say what I think and point out issues. Criticism might sound like moaning but it's sometimes the only way to improve things: for example, Norco send out packages of new parts to all existing Shore customers thanks to my review so I am happy I can help hard-working riders get better products and enjoy riding more!
Peace!
Keep up the good work
Longer front/rear centers, lower BB, steeper SA, way lower stack, vastly different anti-rise and anti-squat curves.
I think the reason @dariodigiulio was comfortable quickly on it, is simply because it's a well designed frame!
It has also been noted that the TRP hoses are 5mm while the Saints are 5.5mm.
- aluminum
- mullet
- external routing
- minimal branding
- reasonable reach
- reasonable head angle
would love to see a chainstay flip chip for a shorter option, and maybe a slightly slacker STA, but looks pretty great.
i have converted both dual 27.5 and dual 29 bikes into mullets, and it's always a compromise. with a 29 raaw converted to mullet, you would lose reach, get slacker, and most importantly have a ground scraping bb height.
I like the Yalla,it looks amazing.
Don't 9-12 speed chains all have the same internal dimensions? And in a 1x system without shift ramps, I can't imagine what else matters. Tooth profile patents, I guess.
Love to learn more on this if someone knows.
And that's why I'm so skeptical of brand claims like "we developed a new profile for Shimano 12 speed" -- nice, it works great with my 11 speed chain too.
I'd like to put a caliper in a Flat Top roller bearing. See just how much bigger it is. To date I have not read or seen an exact dimension difference given.
Maybe that information is out in the ether somewhere.
It could possibly work perfectly despite what SRAM says is incompatible.
Now, I've also mixed and matched a ton of components over the years. In my experience, just because some says it works just fine, doesn't necessarily mean it's desirable or seamless.
small note on chains, shimano 12 speed quick links are narrower (on the inside) than the rest of the chain so the wide teeth of a shimano compatible chainring have to be narrower than a sram compatible chainring.
On a side note: I'd be more interested to know how a Transmission rear derailleur would work with Eagle cassettes & chains. That's where you could save a ton of money "upgrading" if you have an existing Eagle drivetrain.
honestly I have no idea if you even could use the transmission derailleur with anything but the transmission cassette.
The way I understand it, reservoir down for less unsprung weight, and sideways to be able to make that happen.
Looks nice tho