First Look: Specialized Kenevo SL 2 with SL 1.2 Motor

 www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

 They are pretty rad. Was on first gen one for a while. Felt like a lightly powered version of my Enduro. Would trust it the same way I do my regular bike. Now on a big full powered alloy bike, and it takes a lot more getting used to the weight in all sorts of situations.

 Should i wait till next year when i can buy the 10k bike for 4k

 Fighting this battle myself. But I have a feeling my next bike in a few years might be a light ebike.

 Why fight the future of ebikes. Even a fit rider can benefit, getting in more laps in less time. Hence, the rider is getting more practice and more ride time while still getting the same amount of exercise for a ride done in the same amount of time.

 It isn’t a „real“ e-bike anyways

 @motdrawde: I'm surprised you aren't flying an African flag as you seem to be in de Nile

 @Allen82: hahaha, please tell me this a joke??

 @Allen82: which ebike did you have? I've a fuel exe and when sitting at 32kmph you are getting a workout, at 20 not so much.
@rzicc: When I'm on my non e steel hardtail and pushing it hard my heartrate and breathing are under much more stress than when riding my ebike.
You're both right under different circumstances but a non ebike ridden at the same intensity will always be more of a workout. The important thing though is you're not sitting on your ass watching tv.
Sidenote who watches tv any more?

 @ivanpk1: because added complexity (reduced reliability), inevitable battery degredation, planned obsolescence…

 @p0rtal00: Where are you riding where you sit at a constant 32KMPH?
On the road I assume...
I've Ridden the same Exmoor loop which is about 26 miles on a real MTB and an ebike.
On a real MTB you're exhausted by the end.
On an ebike you feel you could go round again.

 @Tmntnshit: Sorry you hate nice bikes.

 If giant can put this spec onto an alloy frame I'll buy it, I don't need the carbon carbon price tag but like the travel/motor power ratio. Shimano drivetrain/braking too

 Everyone shroud want an eMTB

 I tried an e-cruiser and that was moderate fun and I can see the benefits for doing groceries and hauling stuff around town. I tried a powerplay instinct on the north shore and did actually not like it. Sure, it volts to the top of the trail in no time on the road, but in the tech it was a chunk more to work on for it's weight, it was really hard to time the pedals with the obstables and whenever the chunk was too much or the line unreadable it was a monster to carry up sections in the jank. Prefer a normal mtb!

 @motdrawde: it's not about fitness, it's about time. At least for me

 @militantmandy: Fair, I hear you dude

 @TheLongMan: This is a very valid point. In Arizona there are quite a few hike-a-bike situations as most trails are dual-purpose trails. There has been countless situations where I'm pushing, lugging, or carrying my bike up unrideable sections, typically over huge rocks. E-bikes would be a nightmare in these situations. Maybe this is why I mainly see ebikes on easier, smoother trails where you can really stretch the legs and go fast.

 @Allen82: My usual ride is 10ks road to the track, 22ks singletrack then 10ks home so yes the 32 is on the road but it's still constant gasping.
the second point to rzicc did point out that you get way more of a workout when on a mtb rather than an e.
again though which e do you have, mine's only 50nm max and I'm sure if I had a bosch or shimano with almost double the power I'd be fine to go again, plus I'm 63 so I'm also a tad decrepit oh and that's on eco as well.

 @p0rtal00: I appreciate your diplomatic reply and not being an arse...

From memory I believe it was 75nm?

I get Ebikes. They have there place.
I occasionally ride with my father in law who's 68. He has both types of bike and begrudgingly is excepting it's time to hang up his Stumpjumper and only ride the Ebike to keep up.

Also, a park with no uplift. Great. You get loads more laps in.

For me personally. The Ebike ruined any sense of accomplishment after a long ride. Which I loved. So much so it actually put me off and I actually stopped riding for a while.

Just sharing my experience of owning one.
That's what this place is for right?

 @Allen82: to be able to “go around again” is one of the benefits but if time is your enemy you can lower the power to get more of a workout .

 @Matt115lamb: Not enough battery.

 @Allen82: with a range extender battery and tuning your assists you’ll get a full day

 @Allen82: No worries man, civil discourse is always preferable to trolling no matter how entertaining the latter can be.
My main regret is that I've an amazing Soma B-Side steel hardtail that doesn't get ridden enough which is mainly my fault. Stuff happened which I won't bore you with that meant I was only riding once a fortnight rather than three times a week, it's amazing when you get to 60 how much more work it is to regain what was lost.
to that end the e-bike's been great but it certainly doesn't return me to the fitness level I had in my mid 50's.
I will also admit that I'm a tad bone-idle these days.

 @ivanpk1: You'll NEVER get the same exercise on an eBike. People are always saying "You'll get the same workout, but you'll go farther." Nope. Not true. You'd have to push SO HARD to get your heart rate up on a climb and sustain it like you would on a regular bike.

 @Evo6: Indeed.
Maybe not everyone. But for me this is true.

 100%. The SL e-bikes are exactly what I would want. They will handle and feel very similar to the regular bike while allowing me to double my laps for a given ride and/or take the sting out of some of the more brutal climbs in my area.

These bikes are way more appealing to me than a full powered, full weight e-bike for a.) where I live, b.) the amount of time I have available to ride in a given week.

 I have the Kenevo SL and it's the perfect balance of still feeling like I'm getting a workout while getting 3x the amount of tech DH laps in and not feeling like I'm dragging a bowling ball around my BB when I'm cornering.

 @braap299: Me too, and I agree 100%

 I just test rode a Levo Comp Alloy ... loved it... I am a PNW rider too & getting up the 5 mile slog to the summit at Alsea Falls would be heaven on that bike.

 Where do you ride in the PNW?

 @Tigergoosebumps: Portland area mostly with VERY occasional 3-4 hr road trip destinations. Work/life/kids are the reason ebikes have consumed me. Was riding ~50 miles a week in Colorado (GJ/Fruita area), never even thinking about ebikes, now lucky to get 25 miles a month and very thankful for ebikes. Hoping to ride in your area (Port A) one day

 @rzicc: Man I see your point ... your picture is epically bigger than anyone else's ... jeez, sorry man, my bad ~ what was I thinking??? mother of god was I ever wrong ... I mean clearly I'm clueless and unaware how biglier your ascents must be than my fat 61 year old broken up veterans ass ... AND the downhill ~ ((face palm)) ~ the down hill I have no words for the technical steep that is your descent, it's so past vertical that it sucks matter from black holes like you evacuating Boston cream from a doughnut ... epic!

Can I please have your autograph for my collection?

 @jeffreylj: Have you been out to Silverfalls? SATA has been doing a ton of work since the fires.

 @tipsword: haven’t been there to ride only waterfall hikes but planning to since it’s only about 45 miles from us. Thinking it would be a great place to take the family (they don’t ride) as they can stay entertained with the various falls while I ride

 I see sl ebike differently, but i'll try at least another one before judging. So far with the Orbea Rise, i feel they suck on the uphill compared to full power ebikes, even tho they feel more natural, but they suck on the way down, you have the extra weight and lost agility, but not the power of a real ebike, at that point i'll stick to my Mountainbike

 @nicoenduro: No dice. SL like the Kenevo SL feels way better and more natural than a full power ebike.

 @lwkwafi: I’ll see if I can try one somewhere

 @rzicc: if you're insecure, there are solutions. Flexing on what other people consider climbs isn't one of them.

 @ultimatist: see above...

 Yeah huge miss if it’s not comparable with the older bikes. When not if your old motor goes out you could at least upgrade to the new motor.

 These bikes were never flying off shelves, they probably just repurposed the back stock by throwing the new motors on and calling it KSL 2. Major BS if there is no way to upgrade the motor for gen 1 owners that spent a lot of money on the first iteration.

 @braap299: It is literally a drop in. So yes, BS calling it a KSL 2, its a KSL with Male 1.2. Anyway, call Specialized out about it.

 @Dangerhill: 100% This! I paid $8500 for the frame alone just a year ago. Now I couldn’t even sell it for half of that. They better let me drop in the 1.2 motor in my $8500 frame.

 Just off the phone to Specialized. Frame isn't the same apparently and the new motor isn't compatible with the old frame due to firmware. Utter shit. And I'm waiting for a warranty frame so I asked to get the new frame but they said no. When I made the claim I asked them is there a new bike in the pipeline because I'd wait to get that and they said there was nothing planned, then release a bike 3 weeks later. Not happy!

 @Jordmackay: weird expectation to assume they'll upgrade you to something you didn't buy. Have you ever run a business?

 @ultimatist: they've released the exact same bike that's changed nothing of the problems from the previous gen. It's just a paint change and they've stuck the levo motor in it. I'm waiting 2 months for a new frame it's hardly much to ask to get the new motor put in

 This is why the light ebikes make no sense to me and I predict they will be gone in 5-8 years. If you put a smaller battery on the bike, it...weighs less. The weight difference between this motor and an EP8 is 1lb. Do we really think Bosch and Shimano aren't working day and night to close that gap?The current light ebikes are just a head fake to get the weight weenies (and pinkers) interested in eebs. A 40lb bike with thin tires and trail components for $10K sounds much less fun than 50lb full fat eeb (Decoy) with DH tires/components for half the price.

My prediction is that in the future the "light" and "full fat" ebikes will be the same frame, motor, everything, but the battery will be like Norco does it where you just pick how big you want to go. This covers the wide variety of use cases an eeb has, from people who want a 900wh to go out in the backcountry all day or someone like me who uses their eeb as a self shuttle and can run a smaller (lighter!) battery with a spare or two in the truck to swap in.

 @succulentsausage: Personally, lighter e-bikes are more appealing to me. I rarely have more than 2 hours for my actual ride time (lots of hobbies, 2 kids, job). Giving me a bike that handles quite similarly to my regular enduro bike (my current non e-bike rig is 36.5 lbs. with DD casing Maxxis) but allows me to double my miles and/or take the sting out of the more brutal climbs is exactly what I am interested in.

Even if I want to do a bit of a longer ride, I'm not unhappy using the eco modes as a pure supplement to my own power, and I also don't mind pedaling a 40 lb. bike for a bit if I run out of juice.

Case in point, I had the chance to demo the Trek Fuel EXe and I spent about 20 minutes purposefully pedaling it uphill with the motor fully off. There as maybe 1-2 watts of drag in the system, and the bike itself felt no heavier than my current rig. Riding without the motor was negligibly different than my normal bike.

 @succulentsausage: Meanwhile I ride my 'lightweight' Orbea and wonder why anyone would want more power or battery. I go on a few longer rides, but mostly I just want a little more help on some steep road climbs that I wouldn't be bothered with on my traditional bike - so it just keeps me out of the car and pedaling to the trail head or doing different rides that i would skip all together

I don't disagree with your point around the Norco and interchangeable batteries - though I do think there is some correlation between drag, noise and power that maybe the average 'lightweight' bike customer is interested in that the 'full fat' adopter cares less about.

 But the battery is big enough....

 @KJP1230: totally get your point of view.
Mine is different anyways.

I do ride my normal bike when I have time for it. = weekends (family, kid, many work hours, same thing that you describe)
On weekdays I ride my e-bike because I don’t have time. And that’s why I chose (and would choose again) a full powered one. I‘m doing around 800m of climbing (and descending) in my 1 hour lunch break. Full turbo only. Sweating like hell while trying to catch up to the 25km/h power cut off. But 800m plus a great alpine trail plus a quick shower and a super quick sandwich fit into one our without affecting familytime. Would not be doable on a light e-bike. That’s why I’ll stay with a full powered one.

To me, an SL would be a bad compromise.
I prefer having two dedicated bikes as a compromise instead
(And the Turbo Levo is not as shitty to descend as other e-bikes I’ve tried. Frankly, it feels different to a normal one, but is a bunch of fun! Up and down).

 @succulentsausage: I have a Kenevo Expert model with the stock aluminium rims and bar, and a full powered EP8 ebike with carbon frame, bars, wheels and 170 travel front and rear. The full powered bike is 6-7 pounds heavier and feels significantly heavier on the trail. Stronger motor =much bigger battery=more weight. I prefer the SL type of bikes. If you want to spend the money on Carbon wheels, bars and top end components, you can make them 8-10 pounds lighter. If I ran a small battery in the EP8 the range would almost unusable.

 @succulentsausage: yes/no. the recent SL bikes are much more fun to ride than "full power".

my take is we'll end up with a 70nm universal motor and swappable batteries with 2 or 3 sizes.

i have a transition relay today and i would say its the best SL enduro *and* trail bike today and thats why:

- fazus ride 60 is 60nm and thats noticeably better than older SL motors and even the SL 1.2 from specialized. you can let the bike pull you up even at 180lbs if you want. could it be more? yes perhaps especially if you're 200lbs+ - but 85 is way more than needed so 70 probably.

- battery is 430wh. specialized 320 is just not enough for a proper half day on the bike and you need the extender, the 430 is, no extender needed

- swappable battery. come back to the car swap. great!

this with the ability to run 300mah to 700mah (rather than only 430) would basically give you everything

 @p1nkbike: then srams would be 69.88

 @succulentsausage: Its almost as if everybody is different and we all have different wants and personalities in how we ride our bikes. Everybody has a different background and I can see how one bike might work for some scenarios and the other works for other scenarios. I think it makes more sense to have both options that way people can have more of a choice in how they ride a bike. We have 4 (ish) main categories of non - Ebikes. (xc, trial, all-mountain, enduro) and they still exist. It hasn't happened that everybody just buys one bike because it's the best option for everyone. Everyone is different.

 @succulentsausage: personally I like the lighter e bikes. I’ve got a ‘23 carbon Levo (s4) that’s 51lbs. It’s a blast and I do love it. Haven’t ran out of battery once. However, it’s very rare for me to run it in full turbo. The exception is fire roads. But on the actual climb trails we have around the Sea to sky and north shore the full power is actually a downside and too much, for me personally. I’ve got it tuned to “trail” at 60nm. “Eco” at 35. That seems to be the sweet spots for the type of riding I do.
I demo’d a orbea rise last year and was thoroughly impressed. Loved how it was very poppy and easy to get around tight tech. The rattle of the shimano killed it for me though. Sounded and felt cheap.
That light ride feel is always on my mind though when I’m riding my bike. I find the Levo is a workout on the super slow and tighter tech trails. Particularly where there’s drops need to be rolled into slowly and it’s all upper body to get the bike to land clean.
For me I’m very much looking at the newer SL’s with 150mm+ travel and aren’t going to go dead after 2 runs. Was hoping the new kenevo was going to be an improvement over the new Levo so.
After reading the reviews of the new Santa Cruz SL it’s sounds like the 400wh battery at 60nm’s is where this category of ebbs should be standardized at.

 @succulentsausage: With respect I totally disagree. I'm fortunate enough to own both options and the handling is VERY different. My SL bike fells pretty much the same as my Enduro bike at trail speed where the Full Power is noticeably more difficult to slow down and move around on the trail. Especially when things get steep and loose or you have to bunny hop stuff.
The most interesting part is that both bikes have about the same range. I do work a bit harder on the SL. If I add the range extender then the SL wins by a large margin on range.

 Oh right, 320WH, not 320W. That's an important typo. I thought they had more motor power than the laws allow (250W max).

 The previous version was around 41 pounds - Specialized hasn't provided a claimed weight for the updated model yet, but I'd expect it's in the same ballpark.

 @mikekazimer The frame has not changed.

My KSL with EXT E-SToria, Fox 36 Grip 2 (non rhythm), WAO Fuse/Triad with CX Rays and Hope Pro 5 hubs, T2 pedals, Assguy Exo+ MaxxGrippers and Agressor DD, OneUP 210 Dropper, Oneup 35mm rise Carbon bars, and Trail 1 stem (the lighter one), X01 drivetrain non axs, Hope T4 V4 brakes weighs in at 43.5 lbs ready to ride.

 @mikekazimer: the SL2 is up on the .ca site currently. 42lbs, $18,999CDN

 @xy9ine, ha, what a bargain. That's one loonie per gram.

 You’d be surprised, I had a go on the levo SL gen 2 and I was tearing up the hill, that 50NM makes a difference BUT it drains the little battery faster meaning less DH runs so your gen 1 is better for getting more shred done

 You nailed it. This is the best handling ebike I’ve ridden. You definitely cannot keep up with full powered ebikes, though. As an older rider it is perfect for riding with younger dudes, like my son in law. He hates Specialized bikes. We rode last week and I let him do a few runs on my Kenevo. He said he would absolutely buy this bike because the handling is so good.

 Yes, if anything it's even more important on an ebike, because the extra power encourages you to pedal up steeper climbs that you might normally walk or avoid on a normal bike.

 I still prefer a steeper seat angle on an e-bike, but it doesn't seem to be as critical as it is on a regular bike. On really steep climbs the saddle ends up lowered part way down anyways - the pedal and hover maneuver gets used a lot more often.

 I've said this elsewhere, and I haven't heard any reason why it doesn't stand: so long as a STA allows me to get my saddle (using the fore/aft rails) to my optimal pedaling position relative to the pedals/bottom bracket, I could care less about the STA.

I've had zero issue creating the exact same pedaling position between any of my enduro bikes going back to 2009.

If your femurs are shorter you'll prefer a steeper STA. If your femurs are longer, you may want a slacker STA. I haven't seen a bike today with angles between 75 and 78 that wouldn't work for me in a size L. My current bike has a 76 degree angle and I was easily able to get my preferred saddle (fizik) positioned with 2 cm to spare on the back of the rails.

 @KJP1230: my 2016 insurgent had something like a 72.7 STA. i slid the saddle as far forward as it would go. at the time, the position felt fine. now that my bikes have STAs that are many degrees steeper, i still find that i push the saddle all the way forward. the contrast between riding one bike one day and another bike with a 1.5 steeper STA is what prompts me to notice the difference. in isolation, they all feel pretty good

 @KJP1230: I somewhat agree, but if someone (me) has longer femurs, then that typically means a higher saddle. The angle may be the same, but the saddle starts to move farther over the rear wheel as the seat-post gets longer. I like what brands like Santa Cruz are doing, kitting bikes with size-dependent STA's.

 @twonsarelli: I would argue that your 2016 insurgent is an example of a bike that could not accommodate your optimal pedaling position. I'm not saying that there isn't a limit. Its pretty evident that my current bike would not work for me if the STA were about 74 degrees (I couldn't get the saddle in the right position).

My point is more that for most people, somewhere between 75 and 78 is going to allow you to achieve the exact same, perfectly optimal, pedaling position. Within that range, your saddle should end up in the exact same position relative to the BB, because there IS an optimal pedaling position for a given type of bike/biking. My optimal pedaling position does not change, assuming I don't change pedals or crank arm length between bikes.

Further, having a slightly slacker STA may allow you to get a longer dropper post installed if insertion depth is a limit (which it is on the current Kenevo and Enduro designs from Specialized). If having a 76 degree angle allows me to get an extra 10mm of dropper post drop installed, then I would argue its better than a 78 degree STA in the frame.

 @mahargetan: Your saddle is going to end up in the same position relative to the rear wheel regardless of STA. If the STA is steeper, you'll slide your saddle backwards on the rails to compensate. If your STA is slacker, you'll slide your saddle forward on the rails.

My whole point is that there is AN optimal pedaling position for the type of riding you are doing, and this will put your saddle in exactly the same position in space relative to the BB (again, assuming crank arm length,shoes, and pedals are kept constant).

If anything, you are arguing for size specific chainstay lengths. Making the chainstays longer for larger bikes will give taller riders a better and more centralized position relative to the rear wheel.

 I think it is so much about personal preference. I’m long arms and legs with a short torso. I don’t love steep seat angles, especially on ebikes. I prefer pushing into the pedals rather than the more straight down feeling from steep seat angles.

 Pinion Ebikes exist. Have you purchased one already? Put your money where your mouth is!

 @sherbet: Aside from the Simplon are there any actual bikes designed for proper mountain biking? So far it doesn't really seem like they do exist. I'd like to see at least one big brand in north america make one.

 @hmstuna: I thought Rotwild did as well, but think I am mistaken. Bulls has one. I'm not going to say they're common, but I will absolutely be the first to point out the normal people who cry for gearboxes seem to also be the same crowd that isn't buying them. Why would specialized take this sort of risk when the numbers don't suggest it'll sell well?

 @sherbet: Which numbers? The ebike pinion gearbox hasn't been out very long and it's such a perfect fit for this application.

 @jayacheess: the number of gearbox vs traditional bikes already on the market?

What gearbox are you riding on? That's why spec doesnt see a point.

 @sherbet: Dude, the prospect of a gearbox on its own is VERY different from a gearbox attached to an ebike platform. The ebike component completely negates all of the downsides of the gearbox (weight, drag, etc), while enjoying all the benefits (removal of unsprung weight, lack of maintenance, etc).

If other mtb consumers are like me, the idea of an ebike actually sounds enticing for the first time because it is paired with a gearbox, which really makes an ebike something different enough from a standard mtb to consider.

 @jayacheess: You're still missing the point.

Nobody is going to go hard into gearbox options at this point as even the people shouting from their rooftops for it don't appear to be buying into said systems. If we don't see people adopting it, we won't see companies investing into it.

There are pinion ebike options on market, with more coming soon. Grab one of those over the Kenevo if that seems better to you. If we see enough adoption, we will likely see larger brands moving over.

 @sherbet: No, you're missing the point. GEARBOXES by themselves are not what is enticing. Gearboxes + ebike is the magic combination. We don't have data for that combination yet because it was JUST released, and the offerings are from a couple boutique euro brands that are harder to access in NA.

A bike brand with any sense or vision should be able to see how incredibly potent this combination is.

 @jayacheess: I hear your point loud and clear. An ebike with a gearbox does not equate to a normal bike with a gearbox. You want an ebike with a gearbox, you do not want a normal bike with a gearbox.

Companies are not buying into alternative drivetrains as the market has never really been very lucrative. This will continue as people continue to buy bikes with standard drivetrains; such as you have. This is a very simple supply and demand kind of scenario. The demand does not exist in the capacity needed.

So, given they're new to the market, how long before you buy one of the existing ones? Do you have plans to get one, or are you waiting for the Kenevo specifically to have a gearbox?

 @sherbet: Most of us will consider buying a bike if we can be sure we'll be able to access warranty services without shipping it back to europe.

 Agree

 The Rocky Mountains still look bette ad more like a normal MTB.

 @Maxipedia: The ones that the chains go inside the motor and it's a giant triangle above the bottom bracket?

 @stoweshred: yep those ones! For some reason people, even bike people, don't seem to clue in on they are an eeeb.

 Yes, it has been proven quite a while ago. Some were buying the kids bike with the Mahle 1.2, and swapping motors. HOWEVER, Specialized WILL NOT SELL THE MOTOR, NOR SWAP FOR NEWER once Mahle 1.1 dies/needs warranty. This is BS. Gotta be very vocal towards specialized and burn them over this.

 Its mixed wheel compatible though (run mine that way) so there is that.

 @nerds-on-dirt-mtb: with same geometry as the 29er?

 It’s not a redesigned frame it’s an updated motor…

They’ll release a new frame when they’ve redesigned and released the Enduro platform and or the Demo

Pretty likely that it’ll be mixed wheel or optional then ✌️

 @sb666: Cascade makes a DHX2 extended eyelet for MX that keeps the geo much closer, especially if you run the bike in the high setting.

 @sb666: Pretty close with the chain stay set to high and the BB chip set to steep.

 Da brat