First Look: DT Swiss' New Ratchet EXP Hub Design

May 3, 2019
by Mike Kazimer  
photo

It's easy to take mountain bike hubs for granted – they're one of those 'out of sight, out of mind' components that you probably don't think much about until absolutely necessary. It's also not uncommon for a design to stick around for decades or even longer, which means there aren't nearly as many attention-grabbing headlines about hubs as there are for new forks, shocks, and drivetrains.

DT Swiss' star ratchet design is no exception, but there's now a new version of their time-tested internal configuration that's called Ratchet EXP. The basic concept is still the same, except that rather than using two springs with two ratchet rings positioned in between them, the new design has one spring that pushes a single ratchet ring against a ring of teeth that's threaded into the hub shell.
180 Ratchet EXP Hub Details
• SINC Ceramic bearings
• Aluminum hub shell
• 28 spoke holes
• Centerlock rotor mount
• 36 and 54-tooth options
• 15x110mm / 12x148mm spacing
• Weight: 94g (front) / 185g (rear)
• Price: $394.30 (front) / $749.50 (rear)
• www.dtswiss.com

Why change up such a proven design? Well, the new system is lighter than before, due to the fact that one rather than two springs are required, and DT also claim that it's 15% stiffer. That extra stiffness comes from the increased distance between the bearings, which was made possible by threading one of the ratchet rings into the hub shell. There's also a little notch on each end cap that should make it easier to remove them for maintenance or freehub swaps. On that note, the new design is compatible with the freehub bodies used on current DT hubs, and there are SRAM and Shimano options, including MicroSpline.

photo
The new Ratchet EXP design (top) is lighter than the previous version (bottom) thanks to the one-spring design.

For the time being this iteration will only be available on DT's top tier 180 hubs, although it wouldn't be surprising to see it implemented on other models in the future. As the highest end option in the lineup, the 180 hubs have had as many grams as possible shaved off, and come stock with ceramic bearings. The weight for the front hub is a claimed 94 grams, and the rear is only 185 grams. I've been spending time on the new hubs laced to a set of DT's EX 511 rims and the total weight is only 1830 grams, which is impressive for an enduro-ready aluminum wheelset. A 36 tooth ratchet ring is the stock configuration, which creates 10-degrees between engagement points, but there's also a 54-tooth option.

Of course, fancy things like ceramic bearings come at a price, in this case you're looking at $394.30 USD for the front hub, and $749.50 for the rear. The hubs are also only available in a straight pull, centerlock rotor mount configuration in Boost spacing; fans of J-bend spokes and six bolt rotor mounting will need to stick with other models, as least for now.


photo
According to DT, moving the bearing to a more outward position created a 15% increase in stiffness.
photo
A spring pushes the ratchet ring into the teeth that are fixed into the hubshell.


DT Swiss Ratchet EXP

by mikekazimer
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Reviews and Tech First Looks Hubs DT Swiss


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310 Comments
  • 154 51
 Jesus! Please stop whining about the prices. Nobody is forcing you to buy it.
Those hubs are certainly not intended for the typical PB members. Yes they are expensiv and they cost more than my entire DT wheelset with 240er Hubs and XM alu rims. So what?
  • 35 22
 Exactly!!! People who bitch about expensive high end parts are clearly not the target consumer so move on!!
  • 27 13
 @MitchThompson89: Those parts are not really for "consumers". They are for racers. Of course there are a lot of rich people out there who can afford anything. But let's not pretend it makes any sense.
  • 247 36
 You're really missing the point of astronomical pricing.

You might have noticed that overall, everything in cycling is becoming more expensive. And yet people are buying it. Have you wondered why this is?

Every time a manufacturer releases a product like this, with some sort of insane or unattainable price tag, it subtly alters pereceptions. Then, when they bring in their 'average rider' tier product, and look, it's only a 15-20% increase on the previous model, it looks like good value. And no one complains. Look up 'aspirational pricing'.

So yes, it does matter, and yes, we should be complaining about it. It's normalising an increasingly elite-priced sport.
  • 33 37
flag cvoc (May 3, 2019 at 2:40) (Below Threshold)
 @dominic54:
You don't have to buy DT Swiss hubs. You can also go for one of the more budget friendly brands.
  • 40 11
 People are also missing the point that when brands debut a new technology, it is done at the top end first and then brought to lower pricepoints in the years to come. It makes no sense (from both the brand's perspective and the end user's perspective) to bring a new technology to low end and try to bring it to the top end the year after. If that happened, end users would complain since the high end group now uses low end technology, rather than a low end group that uses high end technology. Not only is this how business generally works, it's also how you as end user would perceive it.

And I have to disagree with your last point, @dominic54 , you only need to complain if they take away their lower price point options. But this isn't happening. In fact, lower price point options are leagues better than they were 10 years ago. And it's because these brands evolve the top end technology first and then bringing it down in the following years.
  • 16 24
flag headshot FL (May 3, 2019 at 3:38) (Below Threshold)
 You and the DT troll army have been downvoting anyone who thinks these abominations are over priced? Bwahahahaha
  • 26 4
 @ka-brap: This isn't new technology tho, its the same star ratchet they have had for years just refined a little to save weight, if anything with less parts it should cost less.

To me it seems like more of a refinement and the kind of thing they should be implementing across the board as an improvement over the old one and not trying to sell it as a new fancy technology only the rich can have, i understand bringing in new tech and trickling it down but that only makes sense with new things that are expensive to do with current manufacturing techniques or use expansive materials and the trickle down happens when it becomes cheaper or more efficient to do but this is not that, its no more fancy than the old system, just a bit better thought out.
  • 11 1
 @cvoc: I think you completely missed his point.
  • 14 9
 @dominic54: totally agreed. Every year we get ripped off more and more and then you get these dweebs hurting the community by standing up for it. They’d have a point if mid range stuff wasn’t more expensive than the high end stuff of five years ago. They just keep creeping those prices up and what do we get in return? Not much.
  • 45 4
 Pornhub is free. Just saying.
  • 1 2
 @maglor: It costs around the same (given the price differnece of 240s in Europe and US). In Europe it should go for around 600€ if they don't change their way of pricing.
  • 13 7
 @headshot: I only complain about all those who once they see a product that they can not afford to immediately come out with the dentist's club. As far as I know, there is no human right that guarantees that you can afford all the parts available on the market. Hey guys, this is capitalism and we all wanted it that way!
DT Swiss introduced a product improvement and logically they did it in the high-end line. Exactly the same is what VW does. All new gadgets are available first at Porsche, then at Audi, later at Volkswagen and finally at Skoda and Seat. Those who can pay a lot get the latest s#!t. I repeat myself, this is capitalism and we all wanted it that way!

Why don't you go to a yacht forum and complain that you can't even pay the diesel for one nautical mile or the harbour place for one day? They will surely have a lot of understanding.
  • 10 7
 @danlovesbikes:
I don't think I missed his point. He mentions aspirational pricing. DT Swiss is a so called 'aspirational brand', which can charge a premium price, because people want to own DT Swiss products. However, if you can't afford DT Swiss or don't want to pay the premium price, there are plenty of other producers that offer similar products for a lot less.

And yes, everything gets more expensive, it's called inflation...
  • 38 1
 $500 for a front hub! Hahahaha! It's a tube with two bearings in it that does exactly the same thing as every other hub on the market! It's ridiculous!
  • 3 1
 @dominic54: finally articulated appropriately !
  • 11 1
 @cvoc: The problem with this price point is the existence of Chris King and Hadley, which are really aspirational, and now the cheaper option.
  • 29 1
 @dominic54: Its exactly this practice that has now brought us to $7-8k bikes with mid-tier suspension, house-brand components, and cheap wheels.
  • 4 4
 @jaame: yes, they are expensive, but the bulk of the price isn't the new star ratchet, it's the ceramic bearings and the fact that is more machined

having said that, i couldn't justify the price diference between dt 240 hubs over the hope pro 4, so i agree with you on the price
  • 5 1
 1300 for just hubs!
  • 3 1
 @dominic54: You make a true statement. Respectfully, the bottom line is regarless of price, we all have to make a choice. I ride an old $1500 bike and am still happy with it. Just because the industry pushes, doesn't mean we have to react.
  • 6 11
flag ka-brap (May 3, 2019 at 6:10) (Below Threshold)
 @SlodownU: So you'd prefer to go back the good ol' days of 1994 when you could spend $6,000 USD on a rigid hardtail, or a hardtail with an elastomer shock? The notion that bikes are getting more and more expensive is generally a fallacy. Adjusted for inflation, we are paying about the same as the mid-90s for a top level bike but getting way more bike than we ever could.

@maglor While the internal freehub has less parts, there is also more machining involved there and in their general construction, which increases their cost. But the lion's share of the hubs' hefty price tag are the ceramic bearings. Get rid of those, use standard cartridge bearings and the price will probably be cut in half. I'm sure if you added ceramic bearings to an I9 Hydra hub, the prices would be quite similar.
  • 21 3
 @ka-brap: as someone who rode in 1994, that's just pure BS. There were not $6k hardtails in 1994 (maybe you can find an example on the internet, but they were essentially prototypes no one actually bought). A decent off-road worthy steel rigid with STX (SLX equivalent) cost $500, a very nice race-worthy hardtail with suspension fork was $1500, and top-end blinged-out hardtails or the few fs bikes available from major manufacturers were $2-2.5k.
  • 4 0
 Not many people here seems to be aware of how companies use early adopters. This is well know in the high end computer market with CPU and video cards being lauched in their highest performance package at a premium price. After that, you see the lower end spec parts being release at a lower cost. This is a way for companies to get their engineering and marketing money back fast while using the hype for the new product.

Those 180 hubs are the highest priced parts and you will see the 240 get updated and at last the 350. DT will try to make as much money as possible from all those upcomming releases.

Not happy with that? Just buy something else for cheaper of wait for the old 240s/350s to be on sale everywhere when the new design will tumble down.
  • 1 0
 @ka-brap: and @vid1998 i wasn't talking about the crazy price of the 180s, i was pointing out that the cost of the new ratchet over the old one that is used in all their hubs is minimal so why cant they put it in all their hubs at all price points instead of reserving it for the fancy hubs.
  • 12 2
 @ka-brap: Dude, you have no clue. I was riding in 1994, and as dthomp325 says, there were no $6k hardtails, not even the titanium Fat Cities or Voodoos. Maybe if you were persistent, you could have gotten Ben Serotta to custom make you one out of Ti and come close. If you think that paying $7-8k for a bike with mid-tier components and an imported carbon frame is a good value, then by all means go right ahead pay it.
  • 7 1
 @@dominic54: that is not a fact based opinion. There are plenty of high quality options that are very inexpensive. Margins for bike companies are low and they compete with many other industries for materials and talent. We are experiencing across the board inflation that is impacting most goods and products (lot’s if reasons for this). Perhaps the more significant question is why worker wages are stagnate and not keeping up.
  • 5 0
 @maglor: the MSRP on the current 180 is US $829 so this is, in fact, less money.
  • 1 0
 @Bliss503: please see my comment replying to this, it seems a few have misinterpreted me.
  • 2 0
 @MitchThompson89: For sure, it will start out expensive and the natural progression with trickle down to consumer options in a few years. Progress is good!
  • 8 0
 but...you can get onyx for that price. and still have money left over for beer. and rims.
  • 3 1
 @SlodownU: Unfortunately people are doing just that. Long gone are the days when $2500 got you the best of the best. Now $2500 is 'entry level'.
  • 4 1
 @cvoc: But also, DT has the 350... which is the best 'budget' hub you can buy.. and below that is the 370 and probably other offerings. DT doesn't need to be an aspirational brand
  • 1 1
 @maglor: But it's not just a refinement, it's a new hub.
  • 7 0
 @Mathullah: People moaning about people moaning ...
  • 3 0
 @ka-brap: 1994 my hard tail - yes it had a suspension fork, cost less than $700.00.
  • 6 2
 @ka-brap: few years ago 4K would get you a World Cup level downhill bike. Now that mountain biking has gone middle class 6k gets you a mid range Santa Cruz with code R’s and GX build that’s worth next to nothing as soon as the new colour comes out not even the next model because they sell things for what people a willing to spend. You’ve taught the bike industry that we’re happy to be ripped off and it’s totally fine for them to charge whatever they won’t because we’ll just get on with it and pay it.
  • 20 1
 Years ago Wendy's introduced the triple-burger. Why? Nobody bought it, it was not a seller. But it made the double-burger which had previously seemed excessive, suddenly seem modest by comparison.

Introducing the triple-burger dramatically increased sales of the double-burger.
  • 10 0
 @thenotoriousmic: 4000 what? Pounds, maybe... what do you mean by "a few years ago?" In 2007 I was still working at Norco and built up a Shore with custom parts at a great price. In a shop it would have cost about $4800 CDN, and that wasn't even with the best parts.

2011 V10, 8 years ago, which I think qualifies as "a few"; $7000 USD: www.pinkbike.com/news/Santa-Cruz-Carbon-V10-review-2011.html

The last bike I bought when working in a shop (2011 Trek Scratch Air 9) had a sticker price of $5780 USD.

My latest bike cost me 3000€. It rides much, much better than any of my previous bikes (probably due to the fact that bikes now are actually engineered and designed to look and ride well), has a quality spec and is the lightest full suspension bike I've ever owned.

With your example of an SC you're referring to a boutique brand that charges boutique prices.

I'll try not to go off on too much of a tangent here, but aside from the obvious and glaring fact that prices inherently go up, you have to factor in that talent (read: the people that make the bikes good) is more expensive now than it's ever been. I personally don't know many engineers that would be willing to take a pay cut just to "be cool about pricing." Hell even sales people and tech/warranty guys have to be experts in every facet of the business, and they all have (more expensive than a few years ago) bills to pay. That's not to mention that the cost of operating a business (keeping the lights on) is also up.

To the topic at hand... I won't buy these, because I don't require that kind of performance (pretty sure my fat ass isn't going to notice a couple of watts in my bearings or a few grams shaved). And beyond that, since I don't work in the industry any more, I'm on a 5 year plan with my bikes (new one every 5 years). On top of that I try to buy second hand if I'm upgrading. The point is the only thing forcing you to buy the gucci stuff is either that you have too much money and don't know what to do with your fat stacks, or you're succumbing to pressure created by society, your friends or advertising.

Edit: And after reading the specs of these hubs, they're clearly focused at a very small segment of the market. The guy that has the carbon xc hardtail with all the top end bits, probably has some pseudo-sponsors or is semi pro and races every weekend. I'll wait for it to trickle down...
  • 7 0
 @dominic54: No everything in MTB industry is not becoming more expensive. Yes there are lots of new very high end high price parts. But at the same time, there have never been more affordable bombproof capable complete FS bikes, wheel sets, hubs, drivetrain components, brakes, droppers, suspensions etc, etc, etc. Lots of brands and new small companies popping up providing a shit ton of value. For every new DT EXP rear hub at $750 there's a Shimano Deore or even XT rear hub available for $50 or less.

And you know what, it's generally the high end, high priced products that generate significant profits for a company that allow them to offer high value lower cost entry level versions. So every-time you see a new crazyily priced product you should be happy about the the lower end cheap products it's profits are likely subsidizing.
  • 8 1
 Contrary to popular belief, cycling's not a charity. Yeah, it is is expensive, but its all relative. Just be thankful it's not golf, or hockey, or even fishing. Activities like those cost a lot in relative to their barrier of entry and cost of sustained usage. And If it bothers people so much, Vote with your dollars, not your mouth. They're louder than whining...or at least thats what for-profit businesses actually listen to. At the end of the day, the cost of goods in a RECREATIONAL industry is only a first world problem. Don't loose sleep pal.
  • 6 0
 @islandforlife: agreed- mtb is finally getting cheaper. look at the nukeproof bikes and Brand-X stuff that CRC is selling. such good value for the money. yes, you can spend $150 for a carbon bar, or you can get a nice aluminum one for under $30 these days. droppers are getting cheaper and more reliable. deore groupsets work nearly as well as XT. heck I bought a hardtail frame for $130 new. mtb geometry changes have finally slowed down, so even cheap/catalog frames are coming out with "modern" geometry

you don't have to go all out to ride a nice bike.
  • 9 1
 @SlodownU: The 1994 Specialized Epic Ultimate retailed for $6,000 USD (frame only $3,800), featuring a fully rigid frame & fork, rim brakes, and 24-speed drivetrain (8-speed cassette). In today’s currency, that equates to over $10,000 USD. Was this a super bike at the time? Absolutely yes. But so are today's $10,000 USD wonder bikes. Are there more of these types of super bikes now than back then? Absolutely yes. Am I going to sit here and tell you that's what I ride or what I can afford? Hell no. But before you go on and talk about bikes getting more expensive, they aren't. There's just more of them and you get more for your money now than you did then (the bikes do more for you now than they did 15+ years ago). That's true if you want to spend $10,000 or $5,000 or $2,500 or $1,000.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I agree. I believe a professional should be able to buy what they need to succeed. Also, say they're 5 seconds faster in a race, and they place better, that's good, and say I'm slower diddling around in my neighborhood trying to get exercise, that's also perfectly acceptable. I don't think the diddlers need to complain, or would even know they're not going fast.
  • 4 1
 @ka-brap: Ugh, no. The shop that I worked in back then sold specialized, and the street price on those bikes, which was basically a works XC race bike, was more along the lines of $4500. It sold $3k that because Trek had just come out with the OCLV, and that was the new hot ticket that every racer wanted, and even the OCLV didn't cost more than $2500 fully pimped out. That Specialized sat there burning a hole in the floor for over a year till we gave it away for $3k.
  • 2 0
 @ssteve: X0 / saint, fox 40 session was £4500 full retail here in the uk and you could get them much cheaper. It’s now a £7500 bike for the same spec or even slightly worse spec. That’s just one example but they’re all marching forward togethe. Asking for slightly more each year and giving slightly less and they’re laughing at us and you’re making excuses. But what we going to do not ride?
  • 4 0
 @SlodownU: If Hadley spent $10 on marketing they could sell twice as many hubs. It surprises me I don't see more on the trails, but it keeps my hubs kinda special.
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: I remember $2400 cannondale back in 91 what would that be inflated today?
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: $2400 1991= $4500 2019.
  • 1 2
 The only thing worse than price whiners are whiny people whiners.
  • 2 0
 @SlodownU: Also as Specialized dealer in my former life, and I'm looking at information from Specialized that frame retailed for $3,800. Could your shop build it up for less and sell it for less, of course. I'm not saying the bike was wildly successful, far from it. But it was that expensive. And the fact that you get WAY more for your dollar now is factually true and you can still spend that kind of money on a bike, taking into consideration inflation.
  • 2 1
 @dobermon: I feel that Chris King hubs are heavy compared to most, but the bling factor is cool. Industry 9 have proven to be far less reliable compared to all of DT star ratchet models in my 15+ years of bike mechanics. That being said, I have owned king hubs, I9 hubs and plenty of DT. None being bad choices.
  • 2 0
 @Doogster: Hadley doesn't even have a website! My Hadleys have been absolutely bomb proof. The freehub body is titanium, so no scoring or gouging there, I couldn't be happier with them.
  • 1 0
 @ka-brap: The reality is that no one was spending that kind of money on a mountain bike back then except for hardcore roadies. People had more sense then than now apparently, its asinine to spend that much money on a bike when there are so many quality, cheaper options. That bike was a mistake for us that we paid for. We had a good relationship with the specialized rep, which is how we got it, but no one was going to buy a bike that expensive. It became a piece of floor art for a year and a half. Even our high-end customers bought OCLV's (till they got tired of breaking them) or C-Dale F2000's with the Magic Motorcycle cranks.
  • 4 6
 @dominic54: Amen my wise friend, pointless just for profit taking "innovation" is ruining grass roots everything and driving climate change (all industries that work on the planned obsolescence, endless progress model, not just cycling). Do people not see the real problem is our empty superficial values and the UNSOUND economic system that keeps pursuing them without recourse? They do the same with chocolate bars, the old bait and switch ; ). Isn't everyone tired of being treated as if they are stupid, oh wait most people sadly are brain eating zombies lately, : (

Cycling should be at the heart of how we change the way we move around and is a great social equalizer, so many health and stress and sleep and air quality problems, etc. are immediately solved by more people riding a basic but well built and MAINTAINABLE bicycle for most daily tasks and recreation, but the industry could really care less about this. This is not just a problem in cycling, it is everywhere, only the rich get to enjoy nice things anymore and not be worked to death for it. I keep my two 20 year old bikes going and got out of this madness around 2002, and I rode the shore before it became a global thing (I rode Ladies Only without any stunts on a XC bike with a 1 inch Judy and Cantis!!!), I have seen this in both tri's and cycling. I fear for the future of civilization. And before some troll responds I have a Science, Education, and Philosophy (master) degrees. If you don't state your credential and think you can attack me I will punish you. Time to wake up people. I am not a Lib-tard nor a Right wing conservative, both those poles are full of insane people. Emperor's New Clothes: time to reread that story, tick tock.
  • 1 1
 @SlodownU: it’s utterly ridiculous. Just bought a 7k Process 153. Had it for a month and I’m already pricing up how much a new wheel set is going to be... really don’t think the stock wheelset on a nearly top tier bike designed to ride aggressively should feel like it’s made of cheese.
  • 2 2
 @embp123: You correctly express genuine concerns about climate change and in the next paragraph you are calling liberals lib-tards?? It's probably too late to do anything to stop climate change but the "lib-tards" were the only people who attempted to defend the planet from suicide by the oil companies.
  • 1 1
 @jaame: Ah yes, but it does it lighter and better.
  • 1 1
 So , no more replacing them when worn or upgrading the ratchet count?
  • 2 4
 @embp123: I happen to think parts of climate change are pretty sweet. Look at it this way; we won’t EVER have another ice age! So what the polar bear doesn’t get to come along, I don’t see anyone complaining that pterodactyls aren’t flying around snatching their dogs and children up. Just a heads up, you know in case you weren’t aware, polar bears will not hesitate to ruin your day. I’m not saying let’s drive this planet into the ground. Let’s be honest, even if this whole planet went green there’s still enough of us here farting and taking up forest land that it won’t ever return. The circle of life and food chain works at every level, in our case the actual planet wants us gone. Not gone in the sense of dead, but gone in the sense of let’s spread this earth biosphere around the solar system. I for one am ready for dh parks on mars!
  • 2 2
 @Hardtailhooligan: that's not how it works. Climate change can bring on another ice age.
But I don't think that will be the end of us we are far too violent and now crazy people are starting to get nukes.

We won't last 50 years.
  • 3 1
 People can move to Siberia. It will become prime farming land. Scotland's west coast will be the new riviera. Northern Canada will be balmy all year round.
  • 2 3
 @dobermon: well I wrench for a living and all I can say is that the ratchet system from DT Swiss destroys both CK and i9 in terms of reliability. The ratchet system is simple design, less parts equal less issues. Why do you think companies such as Reynolds, Specialized or Trek are using it? And I'm not even talking about the drag, where the ratchet system annihilates CK and i9 ...

The only other brand I'll consider when it comes to hub is Onyx. Both Onyx and DT have the best design.
  • 1 2
 @Euskafreez: The Lamborghini Huracan has a much better design than my eight year old Ford Focus. Unfortunately it also has a price tag several times higher, and it also does the exact same job. You get in it, drive somewhere, and get out again. When it breaks, I can purchase another, and another, and another, and keep doing that until my driving licence expires, and it will still save me money over the lambo.
  • 4 4
 @jaame: there are no more than 4 Huracans in my town. I’ve seen 2 of them being towed. Huracan is awesome when you want to have good looking women staying over night at your place and you want to shoot loads into them. That’s a lot but at the same time not much. As a car it’s definitely dumber than a Focus.
  • 1 1
 @dthomp325: you profile stays you’re 30. Is this info from the memory when you were 5?
  • 1 1
 @dobermon: except weight
  • 1 1
 @ssteve: in 2004 the Giant team Dh was 4000 retail. It was decked out with high end everything: race face franks, mavis wheels, Ringle hubs, boxxer, Michelin tires, ti seat .....
  • 2 1
 Choosing beggars.
  • 1 0
 @SlodownU: They definitely sold those bikes because I personally sold at least a dozen at the shop I was at. Just because it sat at your shop doesn't represent the entire market. My first real mtb that I bought in 1991 was $1000 with a rigid fork and XT and it was a normal steel hardtail.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: Maybe a bad example. I haven't got a Ford Focus. Just trying to make a point. I can understand buying a new bike because the geometry is better, or it offers a markedly different ride to what you have in some other way. A dropper post over a normal post, for example. A hub is a different story in my view. Especially a front hub. I can kind of get it with a rear hub. The tech varies, the noise, the reliability etc. A front hub though? Not really. It's a metal tube, it has a bearing at each end, it holds the spokes and the brake disc. There is literally no difference in function from one to the next.
It's true that some people don't care about the price, and they will pay whatever for a matching pair of hubs. Still, I think the commenting on value is justified more here than perhaps any other part.
  • 2 0
 @dthomp325: I mean, inflation alone means you should expect almost a doubling of those prices to today (71%), which puts it in range of the current market. doesn't seem crazy to me.

these hubs are a bit crazy, but it's trying to be the tip top of the market.
  • 2 0
 @jaame: the article and its title talks about a new ratchet from DT. We were talking about the differences between the high end rear hubs. Plus in many ways, a Focus has a better design (I'm not talking about the way it looks) since its designer (Ford) spends hundred of millions of dollars more into it than Lambo does.

@dobermon Tell me why the i9 engagement system is so much better than the one from Onyx? It's funny because if you banter about the PoE why wouldn't you consider the best solution, as known as the Sprag clutch used by Onyx RP only?
When the i9 first became popular 4 or 5 years ago, reliability was their weak spot. Bearings were not lasting very long. And it took them a little while to figure it out.
CK well ain't that bad but they are not living up to their reputation. Their freehub has too many parts, requires adjustments at best from time to time and it's not user friendly for a Joe.
i9, Profile and CK don't roll that fast, on the contrary especially the i9s. Rolling fast on a truing stand is one thing, rolling fast under load is a different thing. Plus on a rear hub, the drag coming out of the freehub body is where it's really at. The ratchet system from DT Swiss is the best there is for drag, and by a long shot. Try to go down coasting with the exact same bike by only switching from a rear hub to the other. Then maybe you'll change your minds about the ratchet system.
Though, I give you that the Ratchet system is limited to 54 PoE. But to me and many others, it's more than enough. On the other hand, the ratchet system can handle way more torque than any other freehub.
  • 1 0
 Buy what you can afford and mostly importantly buy what you can afford to maintain.
  • 4 1
 @Euskafreez: above Hopes 44POE it’s all mental masturbation, few folks comparing their soft dicks to each other. The one Who has more POE wins the pussy of me lady! Where’s me lady? The fk would I know!

I have 36t DT on fully, 44t hope on dirt and 108 Superstar on commuter and honestly could not care less. Those POE stories are for wankers who can tell shifting quality of Dura Ace over Ultegra or buy Di2.
  • 3 0
 I think th argument about top tier bikes being cheaper in 2004 is moot because those bikes, when compared to modern bikes, are light years behind. For example, I think a $3000 CAD Trance 2 from this year is more capable than the Giant DH Rig from 2004. As technology steps down through the tiers- 5 year old top tech becomes standard or even low end tech. I think the cost of these hubs is a question of value. They do seem expensive. I think DT enter the equation for people that want easy servicing, low weight, durability, and reliability. If you want engagement or anodized colours these likely aren’t the hubs for you. The 54t ratchet brings the engagement down to 7 degrees or so bit compared to the I9 hydra or Onyx it’s not even in the ballpark. That said, I love a hub with good engagement but it is not the only factor. I actually swapped from an I9 to a DT 350 because of reliability issues with I9 (previous design though- haven’t tried the hydra- I9’s support service were awesome). The star ratchet is just a clever, simple and reliable design. Not sure I’ll pay that though it if someone else chooses to good on them and hope they have fun.
  • 2 0
 These are top tier 180 hubs. Still 240 and 350 hubs for people without trust funds. Have a bunch of DT240s wheelsets at home and could only see myself using 180s for an XC race bike equivalent or road bike.
  • 1 1
 People complain because if you compare it to other hubs with high engagement these are way expensive. My i9 Hydra were cheaper than this and it has more engagement. And then you have Onyx hub which are heavy but silent. Shimano has some hubs that directly engage as well. People don’t b***h and moan for no reason, some do though. Now if these hubs had a life time ADH warranty. The $1150 for true hub set is justifiable.
  • 1 1
 @Happypanda1337: any price for a set of hubs is justifiable. Every human action can be justifiable. All you need is ideology giving meaning to whatever the fk you want to do.

Like "I ain't ovepayin' " which led me tu buy a pair of Superstar hubs for 150€. Survived riding through mud, rain and snow. Bike parked outside the work in pouring rain, day after day. Salted roads what not. They haven't failed. I changed the bearings, paid for 50€ and no other problems. For my DJ I wanted reliable hubs. Bought Hopes. Used ones off course. 150€. Same for my AM bike. DT350, they were blue though... brand new got a pair with 36t ratchet for 150€. NOTHING is happening to any of my hubs, the only hubs that ever failed on me were a few Shimanos. Despite the care. So quite frankly, through 19years on mountain bikes I haven't spent more than 1000€ on all hubs combined... I know people who buy Chris Kings for loads of money and they are happy, sooo happy when they open the box. I am happy for them. Just please don't bring too much reasoning into it. You bought fricking hubs.
  • 1 1
 @reverend27: You’re absolutely right, we’re definitely going to kill ourselves off before the planet isn’t habitable anymore.

There’s new data to suggest that we’ve actually entered into a new epoch, the Anthropocene. Along with that research biologists are thinking the amount of damage we’ve done cannot be undone or even stopped. Just people being here, civilization, and taking up about half of the Earth’s surface is going to f*ck with an environment. With their research they also believe we have absolutely changed the Earth’s biosphere to such an extent that another ice age is impossible. This is mostly theoretical, but the research seems logical to me.

In consensus; Daaaaaaaamn we f*cked this planet up
  • 2 1
 @Hardtailhooligan: If we didn't f*ck it up by overbreeding and everything else, who's to say humanity wouldn't be ended in the same way as the dinosaurs?

Change is the only constant, and the planet will continue with or without us.
  • 2 0
 @Euskafreez: I don't use circle clips that hold the seals in on my Kings that's what causes them to drag.
The tolerences are so tight and the rubber seals fit so tight you don't really need them.

I also inject 80wt gear oil into the rear hub so it's like a bath and my Kings are silent and roll like nobodies business.
  • 1 1
 @chyu: The most reliable hub there is. Never failed me once.
  • 1 0
 @jaame: I think our best bet would be to find ways to inhabit things like asteroids and Mars. Eventually moving out of our solar system. I think humans are born explorers and that’s what is the base drive for people like us to find hobbies. Whether it’s bikes or whatever. If you gave me a space ship, I’d probably only take a bike that on the off chance some other planet has gravity like ours and skate parks.
  • 1 1
 @Hardtailhooligan: humans will never leave solar system the way we know them (us). Time scales necessary to reach closest star system (which is highly likely non habitable anyways), the Alpha Centauri, reach way beyond what human psyche can endure. It would require a few generations living on a ship and it would require brain washing at incredible scales, and make for a rather miserable life. Mars won’t be habitable either. Idea that we can terraform Mars is ridiculous. If we had possibility to do it, then it would be much easier to keep Earth alive and blooming with Polar Bears holding hands with Pandas. Let’s make Sahara habitable first. Biological life is most likely to be bound to Earth. Intelligent machines seem more feasible. They have however many challenges ahead, mainly self replication and maintenance which is a huge filter. It is rather funny to hear doomsday scenarios from Climatologists because they seem as feasible as all other science fiction stories. We may not have Pewdie Pie, Bacon, carbon rims , but an idea that eco system will collapse and Earth will look like Venus is good for socially handicapped, unattractive, depressed folks with poor negotiation skills called recreational environmentalists. They never got anywhere in life, they blame everyone but themselves so they are sour and enjoy telling others that everyone will die and it is their fault. They found their niche

I know a few of these people and I can see how in case of a catastrophe and social chaos, leading to Mad Max kind of society, they will seek positions of power and will gladly serve torture and death sentences to people supposedly responsible for “climate crimes”.

We are not all f*cked. Some of us are. Or maybe most of us. That is what is most scary to many people. Especially recreational environmentalists. That they went vegan, sold the car, stopped flying, took so many sacrifices (which in fact they rarely take) they were in the face of so many people putting themselves on social line by accusing others of killimg the environment, and they and their offspring (their genes) will be gone forever, while Jeff Bezos or some Russian Oligarch aholes may become immortal. Maybe the dude with big truck and guns will survive, because he can hunt and has gathered lots of survival kit in his cellar?
  • 2 0
 @tigerteeuwen: You're damn right about that. The ratchet system from DT Swiss is the easiest to maintain. You don't even have to remove the cassette from its freehub lmao. I got few customers commuting with the same set of 240 with over 100.000km (62.000miles) on them with only basic maintenance. 350s are as realiable but cheaper and heavier Smile

@WAKIdesigns: I wouldn't say that over 44POE is mental masturbation. What I'm saying is that there is more to a rear hub than its PoE. It's just a part of the equation. And for your information, there is indeed a difference in shifting quality between mechanical DuraAce and Ultegra, if you don't notice it much maybe mentioning it was not very wise Wink . Yet, is the shifting quality worth the price tag is another subject. Let me tell you this, with a Shimano mechanical drive-train, the shifting quality comes from (in order of importance): the shifters, cassette, chain, the jockey wheels and the cables. XTR or DuraAce shifters shift better and are worth the difference, cassette well it's good enough with a 105/SLX and slightly better with a XT/Ultegra but DA/XTR are useless, better to use a chain from the same brand as the cassette and the jockey wheels. Take a 105 or a SLX rear mech, replace the jockey wheels with some DuraAce/XTR and your shifting quality will be as good as the DA/XTR mech. Di2 is great stuff, shifting quality is miles ahead of everything else and is of the same quality between the DA and the Ultegra. And I'm not sold on Hope's rear hub, especially their freehub body, ain't that reliable. I'm not saying it's crap either. Best bang for your buck is with the 350.

@gonecoastal: The 180 is for weight weenies, even on the road they go with the 240s. It's light enough and very strong and it's very reliable. Pros on the road don't like to loose races because of a mechanical issue.

@dobermon: I deal with high end bike parts for a living, and deal with all those top of the line hubs daily (yes most of our customers are wealthier than dentists ^^). If PoE is what you care about, Onyx hubs are just what you need. Don't even waste your money on something else. All I can complain with their hubs has to do with the weight.

@reverend27:
Well you can do that, but the circle clip is here for a reason. And when you spend that much money on a rear hub you expect it to work out of the box. But if drag and coasting is important to you, CK ain't the best option. I'm not saying it's a bad hub Wink .

@snl1200: i9 were smoking bearings so fast around 2014/15 that we stop selling them. They have improved their hubs over the years, but from an engineering point of view, the Ratchet system is so clever.
  • 1 2
 @Euskafreez: Ultegra vs Dura Ace or XT vs XTR is realy down to belief system, I do acknowledge that there is a difference to be experienced and that arrangement Word Championship in hair splitting is possible. For instance a tuned La Ferrari will be better than La Ferrari. Let’s not talk about wisdom here, that was my point.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: You’re right, if we try and go out of the solar system right now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see something completely different being possible in 30-40 years. On top of that I never said people should terraform Mars. You’re right, if we could terraform Mars why wouldn’t we just fix our problems here? I just mean that we ARE going to other planets and asteroids, we will probably have small habitable stations on them. We will mine and get every bit of resource out of them and move on. That’s what being an interplanetary species is all about yo!
  • 1 1
 @Hardtailhooligan: ah yes yes. Do you listen to Science and Futurism with Isac Arthur on Youtube? Full of subjects like this, highly recommended
  • 1 1
 @Euskafreez: Enve, Reynolds, Santa Cruz, Ibis, and Crank Bros all use I9 hubs for their OEM stock
  • 1 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: They don't use them as per say, they give you the choice to lace their hoops around them Wink . I9 hubs still have a lot to prove reliability wise!
  • 2 1
 @FindDigRideRepeat: exactly. Shitty overpriced rims laced to...
  • 1 1
 @Euskafreez: Fair enough. But looking at reliability, cost, and performance, DT is only good at 1 of those things.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I was replying to his original comment where he said rim companies using DT proved they were good hubs. So again, you’re talking out of your ass.
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: No I haven’t I will definitely check that out I love that sort of stuff. To me it’s just cool seeing sci fi come to reality. Most of my info is coming from Adam Frank. I’ve read a couple articles of his and started one of his books I’m in the middle of right now. I found out about him thanks to the Joe Rogan podcast lol.
  • 1 1
 @Hardtailhooligan: isaac Arthur is a bit hard to listen to but the cntesnt is fantastic. Like the idea that theoretically, according to all known laws of physics, we could harvest hydrogen from the sun, to turn it into a red dwarf and move Earth closer to it which would prolong the habitability of the planet for billions and billions of years. He just had a great lecture on “finding meaning in post scarcity economy”
  • 1 1
 @WAKIdesigns: I will definitely go check him out tonight after I get the kids to bed. I like things that take a while to digest and make you think of it for a while. I’m not the most well educated, I took some physics courses but that’s about it.

Just making it to post scarcity is going to be an issue. At least for those of us here in the states. The way the economy is set up, most of us are going to be in the streets once ai takes over manufacturing, retail and so many other jobs within the next 20 years. If the govt doesn’t do anything to prepare for that we’re screwed and I never even get to see awesome sci fi stuff become reality.
  • 1 0
 Bro these wheels cost more than my entire bike
  • 1 0
 @Hardtailhooligan: Isaac A is from the camp that is skeptical to an annihiliatory AI. Rather focusing on positive outcomes of it. Any job is better than no job but being a truck driver is a rather terrible job. You are breathing in cancer all day long, and you sit more than a dude with the desk job. And you are alone most of the time. Then you can die or kill someone any minute.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: I’m actually for ai replacing people at work. By all means it should make things less expensive because no one is getting paid per hour for their labor. I just think something along the lines of a universal basic income will be necessary. I mean there’s still going to be vocational jobs and there’s always going to be a place for artisans. But yeah truck drivers, manufacturers, major retail chains, fast food, call center workers and quite a few other jobs will easily and definitely be replaced by a more efficient ai.

On the annihilation part of ai I don’t think there will be a terminator, also any idea of a computer thinking and feeling like a living creature would fall under agi, artificial general intelligence. Even then with agi I still am not worried thanks to Elon Musk. Have you heard of the brain computer interface that they’re working on at Neuralink? That’s some pretty cool stuff, I think with that we’ll most likely be able to live together with agi.
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: idle hands make fretful minds
  • 1 0
 @thenotoriousmic: i couldnt agree more
  • 1 0
 Anybody have any experience with Funn Fantom hubs? 102 poe, and 2 year warranty, on sale for $99.
www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B079NNV1YL?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image&th=1&psc=1
  • 1 0
 @Flowcheckers: I have one of their 142x12 Shimano free hub hubs. It's been great for over a year so far.
  • 1 0
 @headshot: Thanks, good to hear. I ordered a couple of them.
  • 36 3
 Me reading nearly $800 rear hub = let's go straight to the comment section
  • 2 6
flag WestwardHo (May 3, 2019 at 14:18) (Below Threshold)
 Me reading nearly $800 rear hub = bang my head against the desk as I prepare for another round of people who don't understand inflation arguing about pricing
  • 2 2
 @WestwardHo: Yes because there's nothing to talk about when two metal cylinders, two metal ratchets, a spring and four catalogue part bearings get sold for $800!
  • 13 0
 I have a set of 240s and 350s. I love DT Swiss hubs. They're the most reliable, easiest to work on, and parts are plentiful anywhere you go. I wouldn't run 180s on my MTB, but I can see the pros and weight weenies doing so. These are some crazy light hubs. When this tech trickles down to the 240s and 350s, the price will drop just the same. Relax people.
  • 2 17
flag maglor FL (May 3, 2019 at 6:50) (Below Threshold)
 Lets be honest 95% of hubs are basically the same, super simple (even the star ratchet is still a ratchet and spring just like pawls are.) and reliable so praising DT for being reliable is hardy worth a mention.

I am of course talking about quality hubs that are similarly priced and compete with DT, i know there's cheap crap around for pennies. i feel like alot of people ride DT because of availability and OEM deals not because of them being better or anything.
  • 3 3
 I agree that pretty much all high end hubs are reliable nowadays. I don't think they're better than other hubs. But they are lighter than their competition. And they're more or less silent which is a plus for me. And the 240 is the smoothest and fastest rolling hubs I've ever had. And they're incredibly easy to work on and maintain. You'd have to literally be trying to lose parts to actually lose them since there are only 4 large pieces inside. And the 240(and the 350 a slightly lesser extent) can be converted in to whatever axle setup you want with converstion kits. Want a 12mm front thru axle and a 135QR rear? You got it. Oh so next week, you want to run a 15x100 front and 142x12 rear? You got it. All in the same hub set. Oh so now you want to run single speed? No problem.

Never said DT was better than the competition. But they have a lot of characteristics that make them desirable besides availability and OEM deals as you mentioned.
  • 3 0
 @maglor: disagree.. I've had so many pawls break. Unless you go Chris King, DT, or I9, I think you're not getting all you can get for your money.
  • 5 0
 @maglor: DT swiss star ratchets are basically field serviceable/swappable. i don't know many other brands that can say that. that's a huge deal for people doing multi-day rides

95% of hubs are NOT basically the same
  • 3 0
 @goldencycle: Even with some of the expensive hubs like Chris King, if you don't maintain it there will be problems if you ride it in bad weather. DT is the best.
  • 2 0
 @Flowcheckers: The ratchet system is a simple design. Less parts and ... less problems. We have sold hundreds of 240s over the years, and in terms of reliability they are miles away from the others.
  • 2 0
 @maglor: ill know guys who do big multi day tours, and all they bring for emergency hub service is another set of ratchet rings. It's so easy to service, and it's rarely necssary
  • 15 4
 Probbly has something to do with their patent lapsing and it being fair game to make ratchet type hubs for any brand now....

Im trying to work out if the bearing actually presses into the threaded ring, if so that could be a tolerance nightmare.

Im sticking to pawls for now but watching this with interest. Personally i struggle to see the differences between DT hubs and how they can magic up the sales for the overpriced high end ones with minimal design changes

Neil (superstar components)
  • 1 0
 Yeah I was wondering how that bearing will be accessed for replacement. The old drive ring with spline tool was ridiculously tight on a lot of em. Is it the same removal to access that bearing?
  • 17 2
 Every pawl freehub I've owned in an mtb has failed within 2 years of purchase. Every, single, one. When they fail you have to hike out of the backcountry, and it sucks, especially if it fails while you're on a trip. DT ratchet is a far superior design to pawls with much improved durability. Would never willingly go back to pawls.
  • 11 0
 And the 350s have the durability, with a reasonable price for a couple extra grams.
  • 8 0
 @SuperstarComponents

DT Swiss ratchet hubs are a world apart in design and quality when compared to Superstars hopeless Pawls on the Tech hubs. That design is so obviously bad it’s painful with next to no support of the primary pawls, hardly needs any torque through them and the free hub collapses. At least you did replace mine under warrantee but sadly with the same design so it got eBay’d as I didn’t want my rear wheel seizing up when out in the woods again. I then bought a DT Swiss 350 and have never looked back.
  • 2 0
 I think that's why you see so few bikes with 180s on them. 240s and 350s are everywhere and it is hard to argue they aren't the best bang for their respective bucks.
  • 1 0
 @SuperstarComponents It looks like the bearing is pressed in to the ring. What do you mean exactly with "tolerance nightmare?"
  • 1 0
 @takeiteasyridehard Just by looking at the pics, it would seem the only way to remove that ring is with an opposing ratchet in tool form... sketchy.
  • 3 0
 @StevieJB: hello i presume you are talking about the Novatec hub from 4-5 years ago with the blue freehub? unfortunately that was a design choice by novatec. all our hubs now are designed and manufactured inhouse in our factory in Lincoln, so not really the same. As you say if you have a problem we sort it and we still do.
  • 2 0
 @ssteve: your relying on the threads to hold a bearing concentric with bearings either side. its not ideal shall we say but it will work. I might be wrong but thats what it looks like.

As you point out its going to be a hard job undoing that threaded ring which has been under load and corrosion etc for years. I know from experience on changing engagement rings on older taiwanese hubs its near impossible sometimes.

im sure they have got it in hand
  • 1 0
 @ssteve: it's splined. Probably fits a cassette tool inside. Which would be nice - a common standard tool. Not sketchy at all.
  • 3 2
 DT is being the times in terms of engagement. This new design with one fixer ratchet has been done by others and isn't anything new. 36 and even 54 is now on the lower end of the engagement spectrum. At this price, no thanks. I9 hydra all the way.
  • 1 0
 @privateer-wbc: Ah, missed that in the photos.
  • 1 0
 @SuperstarComponents: A coworker recently had a problem removing a ring from a lower end dt hub. Only had to do it once myself and it wasn't bad, but my colleague said it took two people to get it unthreaded.

I see what you mean about the concentricity (have a similar issue at work atm). I can only guess and say you meant the tolerance of the threads, along with the press fit of the bearing would be a balancing act which would lead to (much) higher machining costs and rejection rates. Seems to be reflected in the cost... ceramic bearings aren't THAT expensive.
  • 1 0
 @SuperstarComponents: No the black anodised ones fitted to your own hub would have been no more than 2 years ago. Sorry I got the name wrong Fuel hub not tech.

www.superstarcomponents.com/en/fuel-rear-hub.htm
  • 1 0
 @dthomp325: Agree 100%! I've never had one single problem with my DT 240 hub, and I broke every other pawl system I tried, including, but not limited to: Shimano and Sun/Ringlé. DT has my business for life. Their only problem is that their product is so good, it never needs to be replaced.
  • 1 0
 @ssteve: I'm hoping it has a spline on the inner section of it perpendicular to the ratchet teeth, similar to the old one. But it is sketchy usually on the old ones. Worst bearing access in the hub world, and it is the most loaded bearing in the system....
  • 1 0
 @SuperstarComponents: If you look at this photo www.pinkbike.com/photo/17160438 you can see a spline on the inside of the threaded ratchet ring.
  • 1 0
 @Demoguy: sweet thanks
  • 1 0
 The tool isn’t the problem but the seized threads which have had pedalling load tightened them for years before the service. Even when we had a custom made tool and a 1000mm breaker bar we struggled to get the threaded engagement ring loose. When we clamped the hub in a vice we sheared the brake mount off and the seized threads held! This wasn’t a Dt hub but I’m suspicious the same issue would come up. @Demoguy:
  • 2 0
 Ok the fuel hub was supplied to us by Aivee in France. Again not our design and you can still get spares from them directly when we run out.

All our current and future model range are all designed and manufactured in-house in the uk. @StevieJB:
  • 1 0
 @SuperstarComponents: on the worst one I have encountered. I filled the 6 bolt brake mount with bolts. Clamped it in a vice. Torched the hub shell. Then used a 3ft breaker bar and most my weight to get it loose....as I said, sketchy. A lot of them come loose with the tool in the vice, heating the shell, and rotating the wheel. But some are just nasty tight.
  • 8 0
 Compared to DT's existing 180 carbon & ceramic hubs, these weigh less and cost less. I'm not saying either product is a sensible purchase, but this appears to be a better product for less money.

The design will probably trickle down to the 350 level eventually and all will be well in the world.
  • 15 6
 180s are dick measuring tools for Italians and Germans at Garda. Nobody in their right mind would put ceramic bearings to MTB hubs. Correct me if I’m wrong but they didn’t shave off more than 10g of previous 180s. They removed one spring as heavy as one in your ball pen. It’s a joke. DT 240s is all you need, reliable and stupendously light, then they got cheaper lately and you can get them for only 10€ more than what Hope Pro 4 costs. 350s save you next to no money since the first thing you will do is buy 36 or 54 ratchet which outs you into 240s price territory

I am a huge fan of DT and it’s great that they are improving their product. Won’t upgrade my 350 though Smile
  • 11 0
 @WAKIdesigns: not for all italians, i go for joytech, price is divided by 10, just add 0.5€ for grease every 100 hours and i'm truly happy with my dick.
  • 5 6
 @flavio-san: I didn’t mean all Italians and all Germans.
  • 1 0
 @flavio-san: "...just add 0.5€ for grease every 100 hours and i'm truly happy with my dick."

100 hours between greasings? Impressive.
  • 2 1
 @WAKIdesigns: Yep i know, but generally speaking we are as you describe.
  • 3 1
 @flavio-san: At Garda Germans put more focus on bikes, Italians on clothing. Nothing better than a 60 year old chubby grand dad with team jersey and S-works shoes Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @WAKIdesigns: +driving bis Cayenne to appear so upper class. Lol
  • 3 0
 @WAKIdesigns: You mean the guys that do road biking on their mountain bikes?
  • 2 0
 @ssteve: I don't know. In most cases yes, but I've also seen a jigolo on a baby blue Nomad or Roger Federer look alike on Enve kitted Intense TRacer. Or a Sofia Loren look alike on 5yrs old Epic HT, with brand new white RS1 and Enve wheels. Not to mention all the folksproudly rolling on old ass bikes like Votecs, renovated to the state of perfection. Garda is the most bizarre MTB spot that I have ever been to. And Arco next to Garda is the same for climbing. I would never imagine that climbers of any sort can be snobs. Well, Arco is full of them.
  • 11 0
 Will these match my new sworks shoes?
  • 8 3
 I don't understand expensive wheels. A pair of Hope hubs on reasonable level Mavic rims is going to set you back maybe £300. Fit them and ignore them for the next 10 years, at which point they'll need a bearing change which is an hour or two's work. What more do you want?
  • 17 4
 I'm sort of sick of this hope fanboyism. I ran their ss hub through one nw winter and freehub bearings were shot: Brown gravel. Installed new bearings and same bearings shot a year later 400hours. I dont understand the disconnect because while its wet here i dont ride in mud and i ride like an old lady. England is home of the worst conditions so why did mine die so fast? Sold wheels, built new rear with friends 12 year old king - its been fine for almost 3 years now. I'm thinking the hope fanboys arent telling the truth.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: where are you from? I havent had any hub issues but it depends on where i ride in the uk.

Places you probably dont know like swinley forest and rogate are mega sandy and ruin hubs and drive trains whereas other places like fod are just mud and dont seem to kill bits off my bike.

It could be the type ground killing your stuff faster.
  • 3 0
 @Lorieng: Pacific northwest. I do ride in the wet, sometimes the trail is a stream, but water is clear, i avoid mud. The bearings rotted to brown nuggets - they arent stainless and the seals didnt hold in the grease.

The king hub was ridden many thousands of miles in its first 12 years, now its survived three full winters with me. I cleaned it last fall and it was slightly dirty. I was a skeptic but the king is delivering for me. I've had many cheap hubs last longer than the hope.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: Based on my experience, I think you may be talking about the Pro 2 Evo, the 1st Gen or 40t freehub design. I have 4 sets, Pro 2 (original), Pro 2 Evo, Pro 2 EVO 40t and Pro 4. I am a "fan boy", because the stuff is solid, including brakes. So here is my take, in your favor. My Pro 2 (orginal) and Pro 4 have 6000+ miles and zero issues. But, I too have blown out 4 freehub bearings, one in the EVO, 3 in the 40t. They went with a smaller bearing in that freehub. When they first went out, it broke the aluminum freehub body, so i went with a steel body in both. Just a burnt heap of mess. I get over a season out of a bearing, but they are easy to replace and are only $8. Coincidentally they went back to a larger bearing, the old Pro 2 and Pro 4 have a larger bearing installed. To be honest though, if you rode 400 hours and average say 12mph, thats about 5000 miles, which would be considered reliable. My 40t only lasts 700 miles, but I think the big cassette puts too much torque twist on that tiny cage bearing, it's a non boost hub, so that hub will be retired soon as I get a frame. As far as King go, if there wasn't Hope I would ride King. But I have 4 sets of Hopes, 3 of those sets were almost the price for one set of Kings. Again, just one issue with one freehub. Also, if you submerge your hubs, they will fill with water and need to be cared for. It's always a good idea to pull it apart every couple months to clean and inspect it, especially if you use a pressure washer.
  • 2 0
 @captaingrumpy: CK bearings are made in house and essentially (looks like it anyway) have double sealing and are held to much tighter tolerances. The hope bearings look to be standard SKF's or something, which under the conditions your describing (did a little math) would last about as long as you said they would.
  • 2 0
 @ssteve: you wrote "CK bearings are made in house and essentially (looks like it anyway) have double sealing and are held to much tighter tolerances." Any source ?
Because to me it sounds like pure BS. SKF has about 50 k employees and is one of the largest compagnies in Sweden. You think they are not enable to produce within the same precision as CK ? I doubt it.
I am sure CK has good bearing but others companies too.
AFAIK, the main difference between high quality bearings and premium bearings is the grease and thus the range of speed that is supported by the bearing. Nothing relevant for MTB use.
  • 1 0
 @labourde: Most important factor for the longevity for a bearing in mountain biking is the seal quality. SKf uses mediocre seals on most of their bearings. It's commonly known that CK makes their own bearings. Having said all that, I would still take Hope over CK because of cost and I've seen the CK's seize up when not maintained.
  • 2 0
 @labourde: CK started out by making bearings for the medical industry. Then his buddies headsets were all blowing up so he started making his own with this his bearings for fun basically and it took off from there. Do your research.
  • 2 0
 @oldschool43: Thanks for the considered reply. The 400 hours is lots of climbing, more like 3000 miles. I never submerge bearings but everything gets splashed. Never ever pressure wash. I also corroded out several bottom brackets: some generic thing and then a wheels mfg unit. Also corroded away a cane creek 40 headset. The balls rust and there was no grease left.

Now I have a king bb and a cane creek hellbender headset and they’ve both lasted well.

Ive disassembled all sorts of bearings, usually when trying in vain to regrease them. The kings are unique in two ways that I can see: the seal is a thin gasket behind a steel snap ring. Their seal doesn’t look nearly as good as a normal (skf) bearing seal, but it does have the advantage of being removable and reinstallable. I can clean the balls out and regrease and it’d be like new. But after 2 years I removed a seal and found the inside looked exactly like it did when I greased it when I got it. There were water drops on the grease. I used blue electric motor grease. Maybe their seals work? I dunno. The hubs last for sure.

The second delta is that the king bearings are made of hard stainless. It might be 440c. The stuff doesn’t rust and neither to the balls.

I’m not exaggerating my rear hub has now seen 15 years of single speeding and is still on its original bearings.

I’d get sick to my stomach to pay retail for a king hub but I think they’re a great value used.
  • 1 0
 @Tmackstab: Sure they make their own bearings. Does it make them better than the ones from a vast compagny with 77 billions revenue, that can invest millions in development ? That also works for medical and healthcare compagnies (www.skf.com/il/industry-solutions/medical-and-health-care/index.html
) ? I am sure CK bearings are great, but why should other bearings be worse ? According to Flowcheckers the seals of the SKF are worse. OK, that seems at least something concrete.
  • 1 0
 @labourde: I work on my truck. It’s bearings are designed by adults. Engineered. I have huge respect for the products engineered by skf and timkin. They last and last when applied properly. No problem repacking 35 year old wheel bearings that are big as marbles. Generally the sealed bearings used by bikes have a single seal and a single seal can’t stop water from sucking grease across the seal boundary. Underwater seals exist, there’s never a grease to water interface, always an air gap. I don’t think commercial bearing quality is to blame, it’s the misapplication that lets them fail.

Skf makes a bottom bracket, it’s got double seals with air gap and the spindle is machined as a race so they can use larger balls. The thing lasts forever. Probably even as long as the old Shimano cartridge bottom brackets. I suspect an skf hub would last forever too.

I don’t think anyone can reasonably claim that king makes better bearings than a huge bearing company, so must be how it’s exposed to the elements. I suspect they last so long because the seals can be reinstalled after cleaning and regreasing. Also the play can be adjusted out. But I’m still stumped about how they last so long in practice. Is pretty amazing to me.

I have two friends that wore out their dt bearings, one a 350, the other a 240. Took almost 3 years but they developed play. Had to replace the bearings and it wasn’t cheap. I think was 60 for the bearings and then had to pay a bike shop to do the free hub for the press. The dt bearings we’re not rotted like my hopes, but they’d worn to have play.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: Thank you for your comment. This is the kind of comments I want to read.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: Yeah, the Hope bearings aren't very serviceable, even the bigger ones. I was a bike mechanic for years and used to repack sealed bearings all the time. That version of the Hope is a terrible design. I have a few King parts and they are really nice. Always bought on sale though.

The corrosion issues, you may have oxidizing minerals in the soil. I have had some issues riding in the wet in Upper Michigan, high Iron content, even my rotors end up with a bit of rust. When I
assemble or service parts, especially the BB, I put a thin coat of grease on everything. Outer sleave, spindle, coat the BB shell, I've seen too many things.

As far as hubs, my longest lasting hub, which is now on my daughters bike, is the first version of the Shimano LX hub from like 92. It was 30 grams lighter than XTR and used the same cone and axle size. When the freehub went out after a year, I put in an 8/9 spd Shimano 600 road freehub (now Ultegra), XTR loose ball bearings and a Ti axle. I retired the bike with 30,000+ miles, only 1 hub rebuild. Since then, my daughter has put a 1000 miles on it. So glad disc brakes came out, but at the same time, would be nice to see how miles it could have gone. My daughter will never push those limits. Frown
  • 9 1
 Less complexity, more margin. Good work, DT!
  • 3 0
 DT Star Ratchet has always seemed so dialled to me. So simple and works perfectly. This seems like an even simpler system. Excited to see this reach the OEM bike world soon. Mechanics will appreciate it. Thanks DT Swiss!
  • 4 0
 Improved the product without making up a new "standard" that's incompatible with existing parts...Nice!
  • 1 0
 All of mavics newer mtb hubs use this exact same style of free hub engagement it's called id360. I bought a set of crossrides for my GT hard tail and I was pretty shocked when I received the wheels I heard the freehub and felt the engagement angle on it I tore apart the free hub to see what was inside. I'm a 260lb troll riding trails with 2-3 ft drops at times several times a month for the past 3 months and still have my teeth on 200$ wheels and tires. Let's see for how long.
  • 1 0
 The "new" ratchet EXP looks simpler, replacing one alloy ratchet disc and the most pricey part I suspect, the hardened steel threaded insert with the spline grooves, with a single threaded insert incorporating just the outer ratchet teeth. The initial expense will be offset by the sheep mentality of too many bike enthusiasts willing to pay the premium for the latest, greatest. Eventually, this improvement will trickle down to the more plebian models, and of course the practical reality of the finer ratchet teeth as standard will make the preposterously overpriced $100 upgrade for two 36 tooth alloy discs unnecessary. Sadly, the Overton Window theory seems to have insinuated itself into product design, whereby the most uber-technical and expensive concepts are bandied about, so that when only slightly less indulgently extravagant new items are released, they don't seem that preposterously unnecessary for the ordinary rider at all. "Wow, lookie at the 'concept bike' with voice-controlled shifting and braking, self-inflating tires and integrated gyroscopic crash prevention, weighing just 10 1/2 pounds, costing $27,995. Sigh, have to settle for forking out just a paltry 10 thou for my mundane carbon 12-speed job."
News flash: $10,000 bikes that depend on the latest, and non-reusable high-tech materials borne of aerospace and auto racing engineering spin-off technology, are not going to save the planet, especially if you are brainwashed into replacing them every three years.
Re: WTF does any of this have to do with fantasy space migration? The basic flaws of such thinking hinge on not just the monetary, but also social costs, of foisting a clearly classist plan that elevates a tiny minority of "adventurers" to re-create a viable planet, while abandoning the rest of humanity to remain on this, the planet we will be essentially writing off as a failed project; too bad the dreamers don't know that it is always cheaper to renovate a home, than scrape off and start over. It is reminiscent of the old joke, about looking for intelligent life in space because we obviously don't have it here. Entropy in the end is the destroyer of all such fantasy worlds.
  • 8 5
 Combined with some top notch carbon rims = around 2500-3000 $. Sure why not ........ makes sense - after all it will make me ride THAT much better
  • 3 0
 I've always removed the spring on left side on my DT hubs, more durable, more accurate and a bit more noisy. Glad this is stock now.
  • 6 1
 15% lighter, 35% stiffer, and it's red!
  • 2 0
 i would say it's black. Bruce Wayne kind of black.
  • 1 0
 Ahahah i thought exact the same thing!


this new ratchet is a nice cost reduction, same features, easy to produce, once the product is done sales people put the xx% stiffer YY% lighter and product is ready for sales.
  • 2 0
 I could be mistaken, but I believe you need to remove the threaded ratchet ring in order to remove the axle and replace bearings. Ceramic or not those will wear out and require a new tool for routine maintenance.
  • 2 0
 Yeah, you'll need to remove the threaded ratchet ring. From some of the pictures it looks like it uses a spline tool of some sort. I'm really hoping it's a freewheel tool (looks like it could be) rather than some custom tool. I feel like they've had hubs in the past where you needed to remove the threaded spline to get the inboard bearing out, but it's been over a decade since I was a shop rat and I don't remember for sure. Anyone want to chime in here on which if any of their hubs require special tools for a rebuild?
  • 3 0
 @SpokeGuy: Yes, to remove the bearing behind the FHB you have to remove the splined ring. It takes a special tool, and since pedaling tightens that ring they are notorious for breaking tools/mechanic hands/splined rings when you try to remove them.
  • 5 0
 No thanks, Onyx it´s my choice
  • 1 0
 Something I've been wanting to see for a long time is a (free)hub efficiency comparison. There are lots of (mostly ungrounded) opinions out there based on easy of service, bearing life, looks and even sound, but one thing that seems to be lost in the mountain bike world is the efficiency of hubs. I'm talking about drag both under power and while coasting. My older bikes all seem to be rolling smoother than my newer ones with fancy schmancy 1x12 drivetrains and 5 billion- engagement point hubs. Sure, tires are bigger too, but that doesn't explain why my wheel will coast for a shorter time in the stand when I'd expect the opposite (for a heavier wheel, more momentum at the same angular velocity). Admittedly, this would be very difficult to compare between hubs because it depends on grease amounts, load etcetera too, but I'm concerned we are losing efficiency when pedaling and coasting because manufacturers cater to other aspects of the hub rather than its most critical function.
  • 1 0
 Jesse man. You know the tire and rim weight, you can figure the rotational inertia.

Turn bike over, use a small weight on tire and let it fall to start wheel spinning. Count rotations and time. The energy in is what that weight imparted as it fell.

You’ll be able to work out drag pretty easily. Force over distance over time? And guess what? The number is small.

Do front and back wheel and compare the difference, that’s the cost of freehub.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: *cost of freehub plus usually 2 more bearings
  • 1 0
 @takeiteasyridehard: right! Ok I eyeballed the fall distance before the weights flew off. 3 bikes and 3 weights and I’m getting drag of about 0.4-0.5 watts for front, 0.7-0.8 for the back. That’s at really low speed though. At high speed the drag increases but will be dominated by the knobby air drag. Anyway. I’m feeling this shows that hub Bearing drag is small potatoes.
  • 1 0
 @captaingrumpy: I wonder how much of that is the surface tension to get the bearings spinning or the initial force to accelerate bearings. Would be interesting to figure out a way to exclude bearings altogether.
  • 1 0
 ... And yet this new design still results in the steel ring having to be removed to replace the bearings, & the ring tightens & sizes in the hub under load. This is such a major flaw in DT's design for anyone that does any of their own maintenance. It shouldn't be necessary to use blow torches to service hubs.
  • 1 0
 I just spun my old DT 240 ratchet ring. It looks like the 2020's shouldn't have this issue so that's great! Does anyone know if the Hope Pro 4s have a press fit/bonded ratchet ring or threaded style? In the market for a new wheel now. Thanks!
  • 6 4
 Old hubs were awesome, so is the average JOE going to notice a 15% increase in stiffness...hell no. You can make your bike a lot faster by spending a lot less money.
  • 12 0
 Straight Shot/ Knock Block frames, OverDrive 2 steer tubes, PressFit bbs, 35mm bar clamps and BO00oo0oOOOST spacing have all been part of a conspiracy to make our bikes so stiff that we must buy $500 handlebars

www.pinkbike.com/news/fasst-company-announces-flexx-handlebar.html
  • 4 0
 Is that now not really similar to the new mavic rachet system?
  • 1 0
 "the new design is compatible with the freehub bodies used on current DT hubs"

So, how much is the upgrade kit for 240s? I'd like to put a 54t on but its not a cheap upgrade.
  • 3 1
 I cannot see anything here to justify the extra cost. On the contrary this is a simplified mechanism with less parts, should be cheaper.
  • 7 7
 To cost almost $300 dollars more than an onyx hub and over $300 more than I9 for there are hub....what a joke. What makes these so special? The ceramic bearings? Doubt you'll feel the difference between those and stainless bearings...
  • 4 1
 Onyx hubs are amazing. You can buy a set for the same price as rear DT Swiss 180 hub. + the new Onyx Vesper Hubs are lighter then the Gen 1.
  • 5 1
 @cjs007: i’d spend my precious $$ on Onyx x2 for this price
  • 4 0
 I mean it depends what you’re going for. Onyx hubs are great, but they’re heavy. These are very light. That rarely comes without a penalty. I do wonder about durability though. I’m 200lbs and have managed to break teeth on the 54T ratchet in my 350 hubs. This design looks like it’d be even easier to do that.
  • 3 0
 @cjs007: I heard they were coming out with new lighter hubs but forgot to see them at the Sea Otter. I don't see them on the Onyx site......

I love their patented sprag clutch design.
  • 4 0
 Onyx hubs are pretty incredible. Built them into my 29er wheels, got totally hooked, and now the hardtail’s wheels are getting rebuilt.
  • 3 0
 @endlessblockades: The new hubs will be limited by Hub (Boost) / Colour(Color) choice in May (Per-order). I think main release is June/July. Some details on NOBL site: noblwheels.com/the-all-new-onyx-vesper
  • 1 0
 @cjs007: thanks - good stuff! The Vesper (great name I am a Vespertine myself) will rollout in all axle widths after early Boost release.
  • 2 3
 @BamaBiscuits: The Onyx design will actually wear over time and engagement gets worse. It’s not “instant” as people like to claim.
  • 2 0
 @FindDigRideRepeat: have you seen this? Sprag clutches aren’t exactly used for low-load applications.
  • 3 1
 This is a step backward in reliability. DT's current design allows the complete trailside swap of the ratchet mechanism, tool free.
  • 2 1
 And when have you ever had to swap the ratchet mechanism trailside? Unless you over-grease the rings, you will never have to open it up on the trail. I can guarantee that you don't have a spare ratchet mechanism in your pack.
  • 1 0
 cuts down on the cheap chinese knock offs
  • 1 0
 @bikelust: how would you have a clue what is in my riding pack? I have been running DT Swiss hubs for years. Recently I managed to strip the teeth on a star ratchet. First time it ever happened to me. I quickly stripped the freehub apart on the trail side and installed the spare ratchet from my pack. This required no tools whatsoever. Best hub ever in my opinion.
  • 1 0
 @bikelust: it's true I haven't had a problem but I've heard of it. I keep the 18t with me.
  • 2 2
 Daym! Crazy $$, oh well, another sweet part I won't buy and wont even notice the difference when I smoke those spoiled fools on the mountain cause all they can do to impress is always have the trick bikes with lowend riding attached to a tricked out Jeep that never touches the dirt!!! Haha!

This is a widely used marketing technique TBH. Companies have 3 price point targets High,/mid/low. Some will buy the high, the real target is the mid point. Folks will be blown away by the high and see the other two, not wanting to buy the low end shit, they splurge a small amount and invest in the mid level product, which 9/10 times is an awesome product also...

But let's keep bitchin'. I know I will. Once the the program is written and mold set, machining doesn't cost much, it's science...cause I said so...!
  • 2 2
 $750 for a single rear hub!

That has got to be a typo, there’s no way DT would be dumb enough to market a hub at that price, especially when the 240 costs less than half that price and the difference is one less drive gear and ceramic bearings.

Yeah, I’d stick with my 350’s, maybe get 240’s for the XC bike, but for that kind of cash I’d go back to an Onyx.

$750? (Shaking head, wondering why I even read this stuff)
  • 3 1
 They already do, that's the current price of the 180's
  • 2 0
 $250 more than their 240's for removing a spring and adding ceramic bearings? Does anyone know how much a ceramic bearing upgrade kit is for the 240's?
  • 2 0
 So itˋs build up simpler than the previous model but is double the price...
Together its 1000USD, the price of a complete wheelset.
Nothing more to say about it
  • 1 1
 Just minutes ago I finished setting up a new pair of 2018 FR1950’s. $625 from Pinkbike buy sell. They are super nice, light and cheap. Just wait a year if you need these. Problem solved. Not that there is a problem here but I solved it anyway.
  • 1 0
 Just found that in Europe they start selling these hubs by the end of June www.reaction.lv/produkts/dt-swiss-180-ratchet-exp-cl-sram-xd-boost at $559
  • 4 1
 "15% increase in stiffness" Enough said
  • 8 0
 Yep, Always thought my Hopes felt a bit floppy.
  • 2 1
 @BenPea: Exactly. What do Hope know about making quality hubs that are affordable and durable ?
  • 3 4
 DT Swiss hubs are greta...but not that great. Newmen got around the patented two-spring loaded ratchet in developing a one-spring ratchet which works great. Now DT is trying to sell this as the new big innovation....

Just buy a complete newmen wheelset for 600$, enjoy the nice sound, and spend the remaining money on a trip to the alps or whistler...
  • 1 0
 Thought about this. I was looking at a set of Newmen A.30 which are cheaper and i think lighter than XM1501s in 30 mm, but having had good experience witht he DTs and having them in the bike configurator i bought for only like a 200 € upgrade (over a 1700 series wheelset), it was a nobrainer. Compared to buying another set of wheels, selling the old one, the price difference, etc.

Newmen is nice, but still, i tend to think it's hard to beat the support and parts availability of a big brand and i prefer those because of that. So, for now, Sram and DT for me almost exclusively. But damn do those PI.Rope wheels look nice! Smile
  • 2 2
 About time they made a single spring hub for 750 USD.....I just got a Rocky Mountain Team Comp for free at the recycling place all it needed was lube and air. It must be worth 10000 grand.
  • 1 0
 @mikekazimer have you had any issues with ceramixc bearings and wet/mud/grit conditions? I thought thats why we should avoid ceramics on MTB’s?
  • 1 0
 I don't think I've actually ever used a mountain bike hub with ceramic bearings... We'll see how these ones hold up to the mud and grit here in the Pacific Northwest.
  • 2 0
 I could fly to Germany and pick up a set of 350s from starbike for the price of these hubs
  • 1 0
 starbike really needs to fix their shipping costs. it's the same $28 to ship a rim as it is to ship a replacement star ratchet. ridiculous.
  • 1 0
 You lost me at straight-pull. Also I don't know why DT didn't do this years ago, the second star ratchet has always been superfluous.
  • 1 0
 If I'm gonna spend that much on hubs I want better engagement. Suddenly Onyx look cheap! That said, these are stupid light...
  • 3 0
 I'll wait for it in Wallmart!
  • 1 0
 so the drive ring is now a wear item, and it will take a bench vise to change the tooth count.

there's one less spring on the pawls - this will INCREASE drag will it not?
  • 2 1
 Profile, Industry Nine, Chris King - the 1 thing we still do better than the rest of the world, bicycle hubs. Well, our porn might be better too
  • 1 0
 Anyone else notice that in the diagram above the new in-hub ratchet design shows the bearings more inboard? I guess everyone is too busy whining about the price.
  • 4 3
 Not enough POE !!!! 36 and 54 is awful compared to what the competition offer lol
  • 2 1
 Still DT didn't up the engagement yawn...……………………………………………….
  • 6 0
 54t is still very acceptable
  • 3 0
 That would require increasing the diameter of the ratchet ring, which increases weight.
  • 1 0
 @qreative-bicycle: for a road bike or DH bike
  • 1 0
 @MrDiamondDave: You can swap ratchets, so basically both of them.
  • 1 3
 1) Aren't 180s meant for road bikes?

2) Are these guys smoking crack? $1150USD for a pair of hubs. That aren't Kings LoL

3) In 2017 I could buy a brand new set of DT 240s for right around $400.

$8k bikes, $3k carbon rims, $1100 hubs, $300 tires, $400 clipless shoes. Is this cycling or what?
  • 1 0
 This is the new golf for "with-so-touch-in-nature" 40+ year olds....
  • 1 0
 @NotNamed: Touched, for sure.

Even a set of King hubs would of set you back 'only' about $650 in 2017...
  • 1 0
 Front and rear, looking at about 279 grams or just one Big Mac! Hubba Hubba, that's pretty light.
  • 1 0
 I'll save money and instead take another mtb trip somewhere with my cheap hubs.
  • 1 1
 Not thrilled to see the same pain in the ass threaded drive ring. Ever replace rear DT bearings? Its fun enough to never want DT again.
  • 1 0
 This design, should have been the design from day one. 20 years ago. Simpler using less parts while remaining functional.
  • 2 0
 Nobl hubs don’t need teeth and springs
  • 1 0
 I like my hope pro 4s they cost less them $500 for the set and they are badass
  • 7 6
 That pricing makes it easier than ever to buy Chris King hubs!
  • 3 5
 Nice weights but the points of engagement are way too low to be considered high end these days. Seriously disappointed they didn't at least double these! IMO the points of engagement are far more noticeable than a few grams!
  • 1 0
 Good point. I just bought my first Onyx I can honestly say that I am a fan of the 0 (or near that range) degrees of engagement. Less weight is great also but my $$$ go to more engagement (I love my other DT 54 tooth ratchet for the same reason)
  • 2 0
 36t I always felt was the sweet spot between good engagement and reliability.
  • 1 0
 @lance-h: yep I’ve got 36T and I find it a good balance between engagement and noise level, I hate loud hubs.
  • 1 1
 I already thought about it, by reducing only 1 spring, I just haven't changed it with DT SWISS 340.
  • 1 0
 Looks like my Absolute Black Hub, only one ratchet.
  • 1 4
 Just got back a DT370 from warranty. Ratchet ring inside of hub spinning, had to walk out and make phone call. Only about 100 hours on a new 5K bike, that shouldn’t happen. Thanks DT Swiss for the new wheel but It’s Chris King or Industry 9 if I’m going to spend that kind of money.
  • 3 0
 I thought the DT370 was a pawl design, not ratchet.
  • 5 0
 Uh the 370 is a 3 pawl garbage OEM wheelset. Don't blame them for the company speccing trash bargain brand versions
  • 2 0
 @kmg0: This.

A friend of mine has successfully destroyed over 10 hubs in the past 2 or 3 years by breaking pawls. He's finally had enough and is getting a 350 hub to be done with the ratchets dying.
  • 1 0
 I’m gonna try these out
  • 1 0
 32h option would have been great.
  • 2 1
 Lighter, by the weight of one spring. Hell yes, so worth it.
  • 1 0
 ENVE has a new hub in the mix and it'll be better than this hub.
  • 1 0
 I can't wait to never buy these.
  • 1 0
 New design... remove redundant spring and sliding spline.
  • 2 0
 That price is so ratchet
  • 1 1
 This is why I love mountain bikes ♡
  • 2 1
 beautiful
  • 1 1
 Shut Up And Take My Money.
  • 1 1
 is it loud? that's all I care about
  • 1 0
 Still to noisy. Pass.
  • 1 0
 wowzers
  • 9 12
 Honestly, what is the market for a straight pull, centre-lock, boost only, $750 rear hub? There can't that many dentists that are into mountain biking, surely?
  • 4 1
 Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!
  • 6 0
 Recently a road cyclist showed me his carbon wheelset. Price: More than 6000$ of course without Ti cassette. He's not a dentist, by the way...
  • 11 4
 £460 which is equivalent to ChrisKing... I'd chose DT Swiss over King everyday. Everyday Smile
  • 1 0
 @Mathullah: Yeah.. but he is a Swiss I assume!
  • 2 1
 @bikegreece: Right guess! But that every Swiss is rich is an implicit assumption. Of course, compared to the world average, our purchasing power is certainly in the top third.
  • 3 0
 @timbud: good to who’s who.

When the hub wars come there will be no mercy. Even if you choose to lace them with 32 spokes to dependable alloy rims - even then. No mercy.
  • 3 6
 I think Hunt wheels and hubs embarrass the established brands everyday of the week ????
  • 5 0
 Hunt wheels are s**t. Overpriced Chinese stuff in a nicer package. Carbon rims broke after arrival and were completely out of true. Sent them back, they fitted a new rim and again when received they were out of true. Worst aerodynamics for a 50mm rim ever used. Hubs are loud and nowhere near as smooth while coasting as cheaper alternatives.
Never buying from them again, overpriced garbage. Wished I would have spent that money into better wheels since day 1, which I had to do anyways.
  • 1 0
 Nuh uh, Novatec and Koozer are way better than Hunt. Create your beautiful life!
  • 1 3
 Where is 135mm width option ? that size is your basic mtb market.
  • 1 0
 Exactly, and these hubs cannot be afforded by people who have the basic stuff.
  • 1 0
 @thesharkman: new things start out at the top end of product lines. This hub isn’t meant for people who buy basic stuff. Or even high-end stuff. This is early adopter stuff.
  • 6 9
 Excuse me, how much for that $1143,80 pair of hubs??
  • 2 1
 Only after your comment I went up, and checked prices. WTF!!!!!!!
So cheap...
at this moment, i can justify the bargain to my wife >>>> "Look at this BICYCLE hubs.... the Talon/Excel supermotard wheels were less than 2000€!!!"
  • 1 0
 @TDMAN: does your wife make you buy the most expensive hubs?
  • 1 1
 @xeren:
yes! she says i deserve... if I buy her similar Wink
  • 3 6
 Is that the price for one rear hub or for the entire wheel?
  • 2 4
 dt swiss sucks!
  • 1 4
 Get a better job and stop bitching, they are what they are.
  • 3 6
 Bwahahahahaha
  • 3 1
 Bwahahahahaha
  • 2 1
 @bikegreece: Ho Ho Ho
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