Lee McCormack's Guide to Finding the Handlebar Width Sweet-Spot
Your ideal handlebar width will help you ride better and faster with less discomfort.
Recently Richard Cunningham posted Handlebar Width vs Handling - Are Your Bars Too Wide? The article started a great conversation about ideal handlebar width. I’ve been studying mountain bike setup for years; I figured this is a good time to share some thoughts about handlebar width.
Are your bars the correct width for you?
Unless you have a custom setup, the handlebar width that comes with your bike is probably determined by:
Fashion. What is cool right now?
The style of bike. Is it a cross country race bike or a trail bike or an enduro bike or a downhill bike?
What the bike company thinks it can sell. What width handlebar do people expect on a bike like this? What width looks cool? Yes, that really happens — and wider bars do look cool.
I sure thought I was cool with my 800mm handlebars, but they contributed to the demise of my shoulders.
None of those factors have anything to do with you, the rider. While most people can ride a variety of handlebar widths, the wrong handlebar width can mess up your riding and your body:
• You lose range of motion so you can’t ride down steep hills or make tight turns.
• You lose pushing strength so you can’t handle impacts at your best.
• You lose pulling strength so you can’t pump terrain at your best.
• You rely on the small muscles in your arms and shoulders, and they get tired.
• You can damage your shoulders. This I know.
If your handlebars don’t fit you:
At best, you’re not riding at your potential.
At worst, you’re damaging your body. If you’re young and healthy you might not feel this. Yet.
It's all about the elbows
When you pull the handlebars, your elbows tend to draw inward. This happens in the troughs between bumps and in the bellies of well-pumped turns. It doesn’t look very cool, so you rarely see photos of this position.
When you push the handlebars, your elbows tend to flare outward. Many sick action photos show a moment of pushing, for example going over a rock or off a ledge. Elbows tend to be wide in these moments; it’s easy to think they should always be wide.
Sam Hill is pushing across the top of this rock, and his elbows are out.
When you shred, your elbows cycle inward and outward. This movement is a natural part of many activities (consider rowing and punching), and it’s a natural part of pumping terrain.
Most of the time, your elbows should be directly behind your fists. For this reason, elbow width and handlebar width should be roughly the same.
Pumping through a turn, elbows and hands at the same width. Braaap!
Calculating your sweet spot handlebar width
While teaching thousands of riders over more than a decade, I’ve learned a lot about how bodies and bikes work together. I’ve also worked closely with the doctors at REVO Physiotherapy and Sports Performance in Boulder, CO to understand the biomechanical relationships between handlebar width, shoulder function and shredding.
From this work, I’ve developed the RideLogic sweet spot handlebar width calculation. Starting with your gender and height (and assuming average proportions) this calculation gives you a handlebar width that:
• Gives you the range of motion to shred downhills and carve tight turns.
• Supports huge pushing strength for aggressive riding.
• Empowers pulling strength for pumping bumps and turns.
• Uses the big muscles in your torso, rather than the small muscles in your arms and shoulders, so you ride longer and harder with less pain.
• Keeps your shoulders stronger and healthier.
Finding the right width will make you ride — and feel — so much better. And it’s so easy.
Are you ready?
To get your RideLogic sweet spot handlebar width in millimeters:
If you’re male, multiply your height in millimeters by 0.440.
If you’re female, multiply your height in millimeters by 0.426.
Simple.
Bonus: These numbers are almost identical to the median and average rider heights/bar widths in Richard Cunningham’s story. The bar widths are relatively wider for the female riders — but they are not ordinary people!
When you don't know what's coming, you want a neutral position. Proper handlebars help.
Dialing in your handlebar width
The RideLogic sweet spot handlebar width is your maximum biomechanically recommended handlebar width based on your height (assuming average proportions).
There are lots of advantages to making your bars narrower: more range of motion, more pulling strength and better shoulder health, to name a few. For most riders, the usable range is between sweet spot width and about 5 percent less than sweet spot width (for example, 750 to 710mm).
Making your bars wider is almost all disadvantages: less range of motion, less pulling strength and worse shoulder health. If you’re not a big person, there’s a good chance your bars are too wide.
If you’re very small, you might have trouble getting your bars narrow enough while fitting all of your controls. To make more space, feel free to cut your grips narrower. They’re probably twice as wide as your hands.
If you’re very tall, they don’t make handlebars “wide enough” for you. That’s OK: It’s better to err toward narrow than toward wide.
If you have shoulder injuries, I encourage you to try narrower bars. My sweet spot handlebar width is 760mm, but I ride at 750mm and often narrower, especially in pull-intensive situations like technical climbing, sprinting, pumping and jumping.
If you’re a reactive rider — the kind of rider who bashes into bumps and just tries to hang on, you might prefer wider bars. The more proactive your riding style, the more likely you’ll prefer bars at sweet spot width or narrower.
If you ride in trees, make sure your bars fit. Duh.
I hope you find this tip of the iceberg helpful. You can learn way more about mountain bike setup in my book Dialed or at the Lee Likes Bikes MTB School. The website includes online calculators that help you precisely determine handlebar width and other aspects of setup.
- - - - - - - -
I’m Lee, and I Like Bikes. Over the years I’ve written 10 mountain bike books, built a bunch of pump tracks, taught thousands of riders, invented RipRow and devised the RideLogic bike setup system. Thanks to the knowledge I’ve discovered for the mountain bike community, I’m riding better — and having more fun — than ever.
Learn more at
www.leelikesbikes.com
www.llbmtb.com
www.riprow.com
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I really appreciated his advice back in the day but this made me really confused.
Could we have him and Leo from Pole come on and debate bike fit and who is the true genius of bike fit?
Leo Kokkonen vs Lee McCormack vs Chris Porter vs ????
Leo's ideas about bike geometry and handling make perfect sense. My only counter-thought is: There comes a point where a bike might be more stable, but it no longer fits the rider.
As a bike sheep, I will respect the outcome of the Thunderdome match and will quickly adjust my setup per the winner's commands.
Let's make this an annual thing.
The smart ones will reap the benefits in the post Thunderdome annual buy/sell.
As a longtime rider who stands 6’2” (188cm) with an 80” (203cm) tip to tip wingspan I’m in line for a 826mm bar by your calculation, which exists nowhere, but at least there are a few options that get me close, which was not nearly the case just a decade ago. Likewise, I am elated that there are finally bike options available that actually almost fit, because previously we had no choice but to ride the biggest option available which was still way too small and the size of most modern mediums. And I’m not even THAT tall.
So, while I do agree that some folks out there are riding bikes too big, I think the fact there are viable options for guys north or 6’ is a worthy tradeoff. If there a few undersized knuckleheads trying to win the fashion show riding cadillacs, so be it, but we taller riders thanks bike makers for finally making some bikes that fit, even if it was inadvertent. I guess what I’m saying is I don’t really agree that bikes have gotten too long, I just think the range has finally expanded to the point where there is something on offer for everyone. Hallelujah!
Sure we can kind of get away with snacking cranks in a DH race run because you learn your sprint tactics for the tracks in advance of a race run.
Scared the hell out of to slap my outside pedal in a turn.
Also, I would surmise that Sam Hill runs such narrow bars because he rides flats pedals and super soft suspension and needs to ride off the back of the bike more to keeps his heels down and his feet from flying off the pedals.
Just saying..
Yeah, his equation above is assuming average proportions. Also, the end calculation is just the "sweet spot." Just gives you a base to work from. Feel free to add or take away length based on preference, or on some of the advice he gives here.
No, he's saying that because proportionally we are all roughly the same, even given small variances, it's easy to fairly accurately get yourself in the right ball park using data that's readily at hand.
I am 171 cm tall, use 710 mm bar, 45 mm stem, and 450 mm reach bike.
"For most riders, the usable range is between sweet spot width and about 5 percent less than sweet spot width (for example, 750 to 710mm)."
Strangely, a few weeks ago I fitted some 820mm bars and slid my lockons out a few mm.
Total bar width is now 850.
Looks like Lee is on the money!
But, my gf is 164cm according to his calculation she should be on a max of 698, which is laughable. She is more comfortable on her new 800s than she was on 730. They are coming down but below 700 is just absurd.
5'10: = 782
5'11" = 794
6' = 805
6'1" = 816
6'2" = 827
6'3" = 838 (where the f*ck are you even going to buy some shit like that and what treeless landscape are you going to ride it in...)
At 5,9", my calculation came to 771. Interestingly, I decided to position my hands on a pullup bar which felt most comfortable. My thought that the pullup hand position should be measured, not the pushup hand position. My sweet spot for the pullup was 760.
Not saying that either method is set in stone, but found it interesting that the two mentioned above were close.
Having timed with different bar widths I will stick with my current widths thanks. Shoulders are fine (1 collar bone plate and both separated in the past as I am not good at crashing).
Like others have pointed out, that just doesn't work. There isn't a linear change in bar widths based on height, rather it depends on many factors including, but not limited to: bike reach, stem length, arm length, hand size, shoulder width, saddle position, saddle height, torso length, riding style, and preference. An experienced bike fitter would take all of these things into account and there is no one universal formula.
The reason averaging doesn't work is because it ignores all those factors, but is also easily skewed. You could have outliers (e.g. a 5'6 person using 800mm bars) or it could even be skewed by the sample set, if they are all in that middle height range, fit using similar bikes and riding styles to a similar bar width, then that becomes your basis for the entire data set. There is also no linear growth in bar size, even counting other CORRECT fit factors into the formula (if there were possible), which height is not.
Lee is right about everything else in this article, but this formula is complete nonsense.
It comes from biomechanics, anthropometry and geometry — all tested and re-tested with a wide variety of riders and bikes.
If you want to learn more, check out the book and site.
On a more personal level, your formula puts me at over 45mms of width greater than where I'm at now. I've tried that width and it suffers from every drawback you list of being too wide in the article and created considerable issues for me in my hands and arms. I'm not what you'd consider an outlier in height, either, being just under 6ft. I've had these things fit to me by bike fitters with considerable experience and that can actually justify how they reach the conclusion as to where it should be. I've had conversations with them, at length, about how bar width is fit and height was never once brought into the conversation.
The fact you fit others using this formula or that it is somehow reinforced by how they were fit doesn't mean anything, doing something wrong several times in a row doesn't make it right. I'm also not disputing that this figure could be right some of the time, but the idea that you can take one fit variable and apply it to something this dynamic is insane.
So even if I'm wrong about how you came to this figure, the figure is still not usable for what you claim and the numbers generated it are wrong for most.
How about this, we thank those people that take their personal time to try and offer us some helpful advise? Should we choose not to follow it, then that is at our personal discretion. But we should still be thankful that someone took the time to try and offer the help!
Thank you Lee for the insight and helpful advice!
Also, one way to test things out is to start with wide bars and lock-on grips, and gradually move the grips inwards to simulate shorter bars. Be careful not to impale yourselves though
Previously my mountain bike always had the seat about 2 cm lower to (partially) accommodate the demands of technical climbing and descending.
Thank you for your thoughts.
The multiplier in the above article is a great starting point for most riders.
When I fit people in person, I use a different method that accounts for all aspects of the rider's proportions. I won't open that can of worms in a free web post.
If you have unusual proportions, or you just want to learn more about bike setup, check out the Dialed book or www.llbmtb.com. The website includes a 'pro' calculator that lets you input your shoulder width and other measurements.
You're right: It's best not to impale oneself!
If you're (or anyone) is ever interested in developing a broader model, feel free to reach out to me. I do the science/math thing for a living, in order to pay for bike parts (and support my family, no necessarily in that order) and am always interested in new problems. I'll stop here, I think the post-ride beer is affecting my judgement.
Great point!
There's a relationship between rider height and shoulder/arm measurements — and there's a relationship between shoulder/arm measurements and ideal handlebar width. So, ultimately, there's a relationship between rider height and handlebar width.
I do the math so you don't have to!
But based on this and RC's article, that would mean 95% of pros are going to have serious shoulder problems. Would like to know how Lee concluded his shoulder issues were bike fit related.
My shoulder issues come from a combination of genetics, aggressive teenage bench pressing, hypermobility, years of riding improperly and simply not knowing how to operate a pair of shoulders. Oh also: My pathological willingness to work through pain.
Handlebar width has a huge effect on how your shoulders operate ... and the shift to wider bars made my shoulder issues worse. I'm feeling way better now, thanks to tons of PT and training ... and knowing how wide my bars should be.
This article and video were posted a bit over three years ago. It shows early explorations with Dr. Dane DeLozier from REVO between bar width and improper shoulder muscle recruitment. www.leelikesbikes.com/my-shoulders-hurt-are-my-bars-too-wide.html
I am way stronger now, thanks to all that PT. My favorite bar width is 750mm. When I RipRow hard, I'm even narrower, but on the machine it's all about making power, and bike handling isn't a factor.
Moto bars generally have more backsweep than current 'normal' mtb bars.
I believe wider bars do provide more "stability" when you're bashing through stuff.
I'm about to get hated on, but I'll offer this:
- The more engaged you are (the better rider you are), the more you'll likely enjoy the advantages of sweet spot or narrower bars.
- The less engaged you are (the worse rider you are), the more you'll likely enjoy the stability of a wider bar.
There are of course exceptions, but I see that in my work.
Yes.
I ride 16° SQlab 30X handlebars.
I talk about bar sweep extensively in the Dialed book (www.llbmtb.com/product/dialed-the-secret-math-of-a-perfect-mountain-bike-setup) and on the www.llbmtb.com site.
That's a cool idea for another article!
What style of riding were most of the women doing that you fit this formula to? Looks to me like they were probably more xc based (where at least in the past there has been a lot more female riders).
It would make sense to me that a rider with lower strength (most young riders and most females) would benefit from the stability of a wider bar and hence they are running them in the more aggressive end of mountain biking.
Your thoughts?
You have been warned!
I ride 750 and am quite comfortable with them.
Should I be erring on the larger end of the range?
That said, I put more trust into how it feels than any calculation will tell me.
"There are lots of advantages to making your bars narrower: more range of motion, more pulling strength and better shoulder health, to name a few."
We all have individual differences (flexibility, riding style, range of motion, "ape factor", muscle strength, previous injuries, etc.) that make a formulaic approach based only on height a bit suspect to me.
Great point. I find that, when people do "proper" pushups, their hand width is very close to the with produced by the multiplier.
In the end, it has to feel good.
System being: Find bike that looks "right" visually and from experience gained riding other bikes, sit on bike, ride bike, send message to brain asking "does this bike feel right?" brain asks body same question, once body answers, brain either confirms bike feels fine, or not. brain helpfully assess for me, what may or may not need changing/fettling with in order to improve bike for my body, bike is either purchased, or not on this info.
The power of "feel" that your average simple human like me has, is a wonderful thing, personally anything else is just noise that leads to confusion.
It's better to err narrower than wider. I'm guessing some standard 800s would feel good.
And you're right: Rhere are other parameters that go beyond the scope of this web post. You can learn about them in the Dialed book or on the www.llbmtb.com.
5ft8 = 1727mm
Giving me a bar width of 759.88mm.
.12mm of what I've always consider my 'sweet spot for bar width!
There’s no doubt that feel is important... but I came up in the days of bar ends and sub-600 mm bars, so everything feels wide compared to that. For sure at times I still think 720-750 for some conditions still beats 787 for me. I regularly move my setup around a bit with lock on grips.
Thanks got the advice!
@leelikesbikes keep doing your thing.
AT_Pink_Pals: stop reacting like someone just told you that the earth is flat...
FELIZ NAVIDAD
Quit yer whinin'
If you have unusual proportions, you can use the pro calculator at www.llbmtb.com — or check out the Dialed book.
#gaslighting
Absolutely no way it makes sense. I have gone from 740mm to 780mm over the last 7 years. I think I am around 765mm.
You see, my torso is not in proportion to my legs. I tried a small Altitude and it was so scary and uncomfortable.
I am sure there’s a lot more at play than your height. Other biomechanics factors as well as bike choice / size, terrain.
If there was a clear science to it, everyone would adopt it.
My saddle at full pedaling height is level to the top if my stem whereas my shredding partners have their seat 4-5” higher for the same frame size (the right frame size too).
Experimenting is the way to go.
6 footer here.. arms are slightly longer than spec for a 6 footer.
hate narrow bars for whatever reason. I feel sorta claustrophobic like my chest isn't open to air enough. no shoulder issues with the 810's I have been using. ride in some pretty tight tree heavy trails, never even so much grazed a tree, let alone crash because of it. I feel like I climb the piss outta my bike because of the wider bar, giving me more leverage. actually, Ive been able to climb some pretty steep hills lately after making only one change to the bike set up (the wider bar).
back in the day-- I used to cut bars. now, I just slap N go, don't geek out about certain things like is my handle bar an inch too wide
Are my bikes too long? i have broad shoulders and i do find steering a bit tetchy
For example:
The outside shoulder of a grip can be up to 5mm inboard of the handlebar width, cutting a bar to 760mm then adding grips will give you an effective 750mm.
Did you just cut your bar too short?
Thanks
As a matter of fact, it can be beneficial to move your hands on the grips depending on what you're doing.
Descending: Hands at full width.
Pumping, jumping, technical climbing: Hands a bit narrower.
But that's another post.
And then of course you have reach and stem lengths to consider. The more you need to stretch the narrow your bars should become.
I think the real gauge is this: "your elbows should be directly behind your fists." And this is going to depend on how your bike is set up, the calculation above really just provides you with a starting point.
"Bonus: These numbers are almost identical to the median and average rider heights/bar widths in Richard Cunningham’s story."
On hindsight, when I posted this article I should have included this chart:
www.llbmtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/McCormackProBarWidths.png
The chart lists rider heights and handlebar widths for the riders cited in Richard Cunningham's story, then it shows the ratios between height and width. It also shows the median and average ratios.
The median and average are 0.42 and 0.43, compared to my recommendation of 0.44 as the widest healthy handlebar for most people.
If you omit narrow-outliers Semenuk and Schurter (the only non-EWS and DH riders in the list), the median and average are 0.43 and 0.44.
Of course there are exceptions! But I've set up more than 1,000 people, and this approach works very well most of the time. If you need more specific help (say, for unusual proportions), check out the Dialed book or www.llbmtb.com site. Or take one of my classes.
I hope this helps!
After this little bit of advice, I have my doubts. I haven’t rode 726mm bars in iver 15 years...
Excuse me, but what the actual what?
I feel fine with 720 though....
Is this dude telling me to ride 830's?????? LMFAO