Field Trip: Sub-$2,000 Trail Bike Round Table

 I wish I could up vote this a 1000 times because 1000 is generally the budget of anyone around here looking to get into the sport with a “nice bike”.

 They should write a how-to convince your Mom that you are NOT going to die mountain biking and it is worth spending her money on article, because I could really use one of those.

 At that price is all about the 2011-2012 used bikes

 @Supergirl56: Wait... Why aren't you spending your own money? Work to play.

Buying toys is easier while you're living at home because you don't have living costs. If you're not used to buying these things for yourself now, it's going to be a huge shock once you're paying $1500/mo on rent.

 @Maverick18T: And that's about the price point for a well maintained five year-old used bike with decent parts spec.

 Is a $1000 bike with modern geo possible? Even if it's just RC, or even R suspension, and a spec that works and won't break down in a few months. Dropper could be an upgrade option down the road. There are so many people interested in the sport but can't swallow the price tag.

 Just recently I had this conversation with my wife’s co-workers husband. I recommended the Norco Fluid HT 2 or 3 depending on which side of 1k they wanted to stay on. Dialed geo, decent (for the $$$) part spec, and defiantly not going to hold a brand new rider back.

 Someone on my local FB group just posted saying he wanted a full suspension for $500-$600.

 @chriskneeland: I don’t think beginners need modern geometry...what they need is to spend time on a bike learning how to navigate through rocks, both uphill and downhills...preferably on a hardtail, but still $1500 would be the minimum starting point for something durable and not terribly heavy.

 @Chilla8: It’s just a shame it’s a qr back end.

 @g-42:

lol not around here brother, people are still trying to get msrp value for used bike. 500$ is the going rate of a 15 year old dirt jumper around here. I did just find a 2012 SX trail for 750, believe it or not that’s a crazy good deal for around here.

 @Maverick18T: shouldn’t matter, we rode for years with qr hubs front and rear...maybe not the best choice for more advanced riders on more advanced terrain, but shouldn’t be an issue for new riders...until they need a new wheel...

 @Maverick18T: are those CAD or real dollars?

 @unrooted: this right here, I don’t think geo matters as much as trying to get new riders to stay off of the seat on descents, huge problem for the ladies around here. And then they wonder how they ended going OTB after that root section.

 Do you get the Voodo Bizango in the US? Gets great reviews, sub $1000. Sadly sold in Halfords (a car spares showroom) over here, so there's a good chance of people being put off by less knowledgeable staff (I'm sure there are some good ones).

 @unrooted: well, the market might be different here in Italy, but with 1400 euros i got a YT capra with still some warranty left, in excellent conditions... I scouted months for the best occasions, sure, but I got a great ride for less money than the vitus or even the giant!!!

 @Chilla8:

My apologies, they’ve been updated. Originally it was a qr backend and some stupid axle size that I’ve never seen before and can’t remember / Norco was smart enough to remove that spec from the archive.

 @unrooted:

That would be our Monopoly money I’m talking about.

 @unrooted: our trails are about 70-90% roots, qr axles get taken for a wobbly ride.

 @Maverick18T:
141 boost QR was likely the hub size. I remember when I predicted to the buyer at a store I worked at that there would be a 141 boost QR standard and just got an eye roll and a "no way, that's stupid". 6 months later they mentioned that I was right and should we stock replacement wheels.

 @DaneL: I do, but I don't have a summer job because coronavirus, so my money supply is very very finite and low.

 @Supergirl56: have you applied at the grocery store? The ones in my town are the only places hiring, and stocking shelves is dead easy...

 Easy. See that $800 bike. In a year you're going to want to flip that bike and put that money toward that $2,000 bike. You could maybe sell that $800 bike for $500 (not including the upgrades you did to it within that year), so you're going to essentially be spending $2300-$2400 on that $2000 bike next year.

That being said, used is definitely the way to go unless you're getting into the $3500 and up price range IMO. I got the lady on a 2015 Intense Tracer with an XT build for $1100. Ya, it needed some TLC but there's deals out there to be had if you're patient.

 @chriskneeland: I nabbed my wife a Marin Hawk Hill end of year for $1000. It was a demo from a shop in a more rural area so it had only been out about three times. Has similar spec as the Bossnut here, but Shimano 1x10 (which I prefer) instead of SX and also came with tubeless ready wheels and Hans Dampf rubber. It has modern geo and is a super fun bike. Will put a dropper on it at some point, but she has no complaints.

 @unrooted: Steep head angles and long stems equal OTB, especially if you lack skill...I respectfully disagree. Not saying you need Grim Donut angles, but 70 HA and 120 stem are not going to help. It's not like recommending flat pedals to learn technique either.

 @DaneL: I do, but I don't think I'm going to get a summer job at this rate, so it would be nice to get a little parental help.

 @unrooted: ... as is catching corona there.

 @unrooted: I agree that anyone starting out would benefit more from a riding hardtail with more trail/am oriented geo. But like myself and most others, beginners are attracted to the full squish. Friends of mine usually want to stay under $1000 for their first full kit. If the bike industry could make that a reality, with periodic upgrades over the years possible instead of changing standards on every other bike model, they'd have a much bigger consumer base on the hook.

 @mi-bike: I thought corona was a hoax...in Brazil???

 I remember buying my first hardtail for $800 and I thought it was ridiculously expensive and overpriced. Now I ride my $3000 full suspension and think my bike is too cheap.

 @unrooted: that’s right. It’s a “little influenza”, “only kills people who were near death anyway“, and ”you face it like a man, not a boy” according to the president and his supporters.

 @mi-bike: I’m glad we don’t have a president like that!!! ????????

 @Maverick18T:
I got a Nukeproof scout (hard tail) as a temporary bike while I save for my new fully, ended up loving the bike, don't think I'll part with it. Deore version is just over a 1000 and it can take a beating. It's a sweet bike!

 @unrooted: oh, hem... well.
;-)

 @fullendurbro: saw a bottle rocket on KSL classifieds for $600. More slopestyle than trail, even set up for tailwhips & barspins!

 @ichabodchain:

You realize 1000 of your moneys is like 2500 of my moneys right, welcome to the Canadian economy.

 @MeloBikeCO: scott spark 960 level comes with a 142 through-skewer! WTF? Synchros were the only ones making hubs that size before I saw Trek uses a "boost141" QR.

 Correction, it’s 1500; wait till later this year it will be 2500.

 You are right, these are more realistically the third bike or even fourth bike people will buy as they enter the sport as newer riders. The entire category of true beginner bikes - between these bikes and the $200 Walmart beater bike most people discover their local trails on when they first start riding, is where the biggest gains need to happen.

In 24 years of MTBing, I've had a lot of people ask me what bike to get into MTBing. The hardest part is not explaining they probably need to spend $500-1000 on a beginner bike just to even get them on the trails somewhat reliably...the hardest part is explaining that they would probably be spending at least double that on a new bike within just a year as their riding progresses quickly. The entire segment of beginner bikes is quite disposable and does not offer much in the way of long-term desirability.

 Didn't they just review every 33lbs boat anchor on this article.

 @Maverick18T: My wife has a 17 Stance. Yeah, the QR (front and back) are kind of lame, but it doesn't stop her from riding and she doesn't really care. That bike has seen Galbraith, Bend trails, and my local PNW trails. I takes it and has never let her down.

 @jorgeposada:

I wish my AM bike didn’t weigh 33lbs but saint brakes, T-Mac pedals, and Double Down front and back makes a chonky bike.

 @kookseverywhere: and 120mm stems on your enduro bike.... But yeah like, ride a $400 clunker for a year to decide if you like mtb and then buy something nice... so you don't look like the guy on Friday fails who instantly OTBs reaching the lip for no reason on his $6k hightower he has never ridden before

 @chriskneeland: Used Honzo. I always tell people this is the best place to start if you are interested in mountain biking and have a budget of about $1000.

 @Dogl0rd: Buuuaahroski! Klunkerz are fun AF! That's where it all started... BTW; bikerumor-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Airing-Transition-Klunker.jpg

PS: I know what you meant! But I do love me some Klunkerzz

 @Maverick18T: It must be fun going down.

 @TW80: nice pic!! Rigid fork hell yeah

 Well put ! I was like wait what ? M’m And dad ? @DaneL:

 @Maverick18T: I hear you there. Mine's 34.5lbs with carbon wheels and bars... DD tires and T-Macs add some weight

 @mi-bike: Sooo, you basically have Trump for president!?

 Get a hardtail 1000 bucks new I’m going to get a San Quentin any day now and you can up grade as you go @chriskneeland:

 @Alvey72:

Carbon frame, carbon bars, X01 groupset, and pro4 hubs laced to ex511’s with super comps.. I’m looking into another wheel set but it’s not gonna drop much weight. I took my frame under the knife this winter though, removed all paint, it’s a 32lbs bike now haha.

 Careful. He might kick you ath.

 or bite your ear off!

 In a radio show with a 50 Cent (the rapper) and other, they kept making fun of Mike Tyson. The group on the radio show kept going on until they noticed that 50 Cent was not saying a word or laughing. He was asked by the show host what was up with him. 50 Cent was said to have slowly leaned forward to the mic and said "You know Mike Tyson is still knocking Mother F###ers out right?" The show then went quickly to commercial and moved on from the subject completely when they came back on.

Just saying. LOL

 @dexterfawkes: In Mike Tyson talk, it's you*.

 @dexterfawkes: You suck at trolling.

 A 60' years old Mike Tyson would kill me. No doubt !

 Everytime I see this joke, I can't help but not laugh

 @Germanmike: oth mate, oth.

 @QuebecPoulin: Yeah, I think people think of him as an old dude because it seems he's been around so long... but he's only 53...he was the heavy weight champion at 20 years old...he's been famous for over 30 years..and yeah even when he's 60 I wouldn't make fun of his speech to his face.

 @greener1: Making fun of anyone for a speech impediment isn't cool, whether they can knock you on your ass or not.

 All the people who downvoted you own $8k bikes. Just cuz it doesn't have a high price tag, doesn't mean it lacks performance. Downvoting isn't gonna make that hole in your wallet go away!

 67.3% of all numbers ...

 @Skinnyman: Have you ever owned a Vitus? Hard to speak on a bike you've never owned.

 @stumphumper92: wait. You just claimed - without any evidence - that all OP’s downvoters own 8k rigs, and that their wallets now have a hole in them. And now you accuse @skinnyman of talking about something w/o first-hand knowledge? That’s rich.

 @Skinnyman: Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. My Vitus has been holding up great going into its fourth season. Bearings directly ordered from CRC, came quick as hell. Has been holding up superbly while the Giants, and YT that my mates ride need constant repairs. And why is that ? Because I look after my bike, and clean and lubricate it regularly. If you really rode a Vitus for a whole season and it didnt last, it wasn't on the bike, it was an you.

 @Skinnyman: I've had a Vitus for 6 years, first as a xc bike, then as it got older as a do it all full suspension living off old parts. The bike was a tank. Easy to replace and standard bearings, fun to ride, and never had any issues!

Just the geometry was suicidal, but the bike was from 2010, so that's ok.

 @Caiokv: I am genuinely happy for you. The experience I have witnessed is that the dude had creaking bearings, wanted to replace them, but they were out of stock on CRC, so he went through some hurdles. Again, there are bikes for 8k that are on a different level for me personally when it comes to the quality, availability of spares, customer service, durability etc.

 I blame marketing and stagnation for why we spend so much. Yes, marketing has convinced us we need this or that, we can feel a difference, who cares if it's placebo, it's what the pros run, etc, and we spend the extra money with little hesitation. But when's the last time most of us have actually ridden a much less expensive bike? Many of us have spent some duration on higher end equipment, we've willfully neglected to actually try a less expensive modern bike that have benefited from trickle down technology. I think just getting riders who've stagnated to try cheaper bikes would be an eye opener... but probably bad for business.

 @Skinnyman:
Bearings are bearings. I have never ran across a bike that has special bearings that you can't source from a regular bearing supply store. I have run across bikes with proprietary bushings, but most bikes just run bearings that you can get from a lot of places. Of course it is nice to get ones made for pivots, but others will work if you are in a pinch.

I've seen a lot of very expensive bikes that blow through bearings incredibly fast. In this order, it comes down to cleaning habits, quality of sealing done around the bearings, the loads the frame puts on each location, and then frame alignment. I've only ever seen frame alignment effecting bearing life a few times, and it was never a low cost frame causing that wear issue.

 @stumphumper92: So is $2k not money or what? Hot take: Vitus Nucleus probably gives 85% of the performance of a $2k bike for 25% of the cost.

 @MeloBikeCO: I fully agree, just a note: 1) bearings: there are places where a regular bearing supply store is not in a reasonable vicinity and it is just a waste of time to look for a substitute, especially for someone who does it for the second time in a lifetime. 2) I am not generalizing all the "expensive" bikes as being created equal.

 @Skinnyman:
Perhaps, but bearings are pretty easy and it is a good thing to know in general. The mythique for instance uses 4x 6900, 2x 6901, 2x 6903. Some of the most common bearings used in bikes. Any decent bike shop should have a handful of each hanging around, and I have gone down to a industrial supply store and picked those up off the shelf as well. I think some of those are also often used in skateboard wheels... or maybe they use 6902's or 608's(both of which get used in bike suspension pretty often as well)...anyway, really common bearings.

The only issue taken here is that you are trying to claim that a Vitus bike has bearings that are hard to source, and perhaps that you have seen some wear out.

The following is something that people should just know if they own a bike. Most shops can fix nearly anything on nearly any bike. Almost all of the parts are universal so that you don't need to service it at a shop that sells that brand. There are exceptions, but they are limited to specific proprietary parts, like frame parts, shock yokes and hub parts for branded hubs, and I've run across proprietary derailleur hangers.

 For a college student who works part time, buying the vitus Mythique was the dream for me. It's blown away all my expectations and is a phenomenal bike. I really think it is somewhere about 80-90% just as good as an 8k bike. Absolutely an amazing bike.

 @Skinnyman: CRC sells bearings for all the vitus bikes on their website. And judging how fast they were able to ship a bike across the world, I'd assume they can get bearings out fast too. There's also a lot to be said for treating your bike well. Learned from a lot of my mistakes on my hardtail and now I baby my Mythique haha. Definitely not the right bike for everyone but if you want to ride hard on a budget, Vitus is on fire.

 @stumphumper92: Listen here humpstumper, I resent that remark. I don't own an $8,000 bike, I own two $4,000 bikes.

 @MeloBikeCO:
Here's the deal with buying brgs from an industrial supplier:

Consider the following general rules:

1) 69XX & 68XX (aka 619XX & 618XX by skf & fag) are much more expensive than 60XX brgs of a common bore size (XX - ie - 00 is 10mm, 01 is 12mm, 02 is 15mm, 03 is 17mm, all larger #'s multiply by 5 to get bore).

2) 60XX brgs are more expensive than 62XX brgs of a common bore.

3) 62XX bearings are generally the cheapest for any given bore. (63XX and 64XX also cost more respectively, but are not used on bikes)

Reason: the price reflects the number of brgs that are mfg'd. The more they make, the less they are. This is driven by demand in industry. 6203 or 6205 are about the most common brgs on earth - neither used in bikes (too large).

Where this breaks down:

1)Mfgs base distributor discounts on many factors, the main being overall sales. Usually distributors that sell high volume have better discounts. BUT some mfgs give additional rebates on specific product lines only, meaning some of their products are cheaper than others for the same distributor. This is almost always negotiated based on individual sales territories, meaning the same bearing from the same supplier may vary widely a few counties away. Change suppliers, the rebates change aswell. Also, depending on the supplier, you may be getting owned for being a "non account" or "cash sales" customer. This depends on the market in your area and how crusty the salesman is you speak with.

2) chineese mfg'd brgs (aka "off shore").

Before you say "hey skf, ntn and many brg mfgs have plants in china" I am talking about the off brand china bearings (heck, Timken is still mfgd in the us but its all china steel - minus the large spherical stuff). These offshore brgs do not seem to follow the general rule. These seem to be priced more along the lines of; smaller brg, smaller price. In many cases, distributors will sell you one of these, so make sure you know what you are getting. What's the diff between chineese brg & skf brg? Depends which plant it came from, but it should be noted that the worst built brg and the best skf are equal if contamination enters the brg - they both WILL fail (main reason they do in most cases - 2rs seals are pretty limited). Note: I ran a good line of offshore stainless brgs in my pivots with good results for years - changed each season regardless.

"Other" bearings:

Many bikes use less common brgs, like max fill, double row, or extended inner race pivot brgs. Enduro brgs make alot of these that are not made (or off the damn charts expensive) by skf & the likes. In most cases it is better to go to your Lbs for these - although many brg distributors can buy enduro through abi in Oakland, ca, but beware of additional freight (or if you're in canada, the legal rape we call "brokerage" fees).

Well if you read this far I concede; there are many more exceptions that exist, so my advice if your buying from a bearing distributor is:
1) call all of them in your area to "shop" the price
2) make sure your comparing apples to apples ie - skf, fag, timken, ntn, nsk, versus offshore
3) make sure your not paying more than the lbs and double check if they're charging freight

Otherwise if u found cheap pivot brgs from a major mfg - DONT KEEP IT SECRET!!!! SHARE!!!!

Hope someone finds this useful.

 @respect-my-authorita: easy there hambini

 @j-t-g: imgn hw mch lnger it wld hv ben wo the abbrvtns!

 Just convert to bolt on, problem solved.

 But I’d wager that a Chromag would be with it’s original owner a lot longer than any of these bunch. You gotta love your bike, even if it cost a little more. You’ll end up taking better care of it and riding more.

 Well... Even Chromags Asian made frames aren't exactly budget.

 @j-t-g: I own a rootdown BA and a Monk, the build quality is insane and the geo is honed in like no other. I'm a huge fan and will ride these until they hang on my wall.

 I wasnt saying chromag isnt quality, on the other hand I don't think they make a single sub par product in any of their ranges. But they aren't budget (in any of their product ranges!). Look at the new growler if you wanna recommend someone a value hardtail with super modern geo.

 @j-t-g: Growler 50 is still 2500$

 @j-t-g: My point is how much are you going to pay in depreciation when you sell your bike after 2-3 years vs. 5-10 years (or longer). I'd argue that you save money in the long run buying quality. And if not, at least you're happier with better gear.

The only problem is it's hard to sell a bike that you've had for that long. It kind of becomes part of you.

 Great to hear - I have recently emigrated to New Zealand from the UK, bought the new version Bossnut just before leaving and shipped it in our container! The bike has been absolutely flawless here in NZ, riding all sorts of trails, brown pow to rock infested madness (Christchurch area) based on its performance - you'll definitely be getting more custom from me in NZ once you guys start the international shipping. Keep up the great work.

 Couldn't you just upgrade the shifter/derailleur eventually and stick with a 12sp cassette that takes that hub? Not sure what you mean exactly. That said, I've got SX Eagle and was convinced by online comments that I'd have to immediately swap it for something quality. Like I even factored that in the budget. Glad I gave it a chance because it's been working flawlessly so far, shifts fast and smooth, never skips or misses, way better than expected.

 @DylanH93: The problem with the NX/SX components isn't their functionality. They are wear items. And the only replacement options you have for them are more of the same (granted they are fairly cheap) or putting a SunRace cassette in its place. My experience with the sun race and Shimano XT derailleur combo hasn't been favorable on more than one bike (YMMV). You could go with Shimano, but nothing new (they designed a new hub for their wide range cassette). They don't make a wide range that fits the old spline design. So, if you get to the point where you want to upgrade that cassette to a new one, you are out of luck short of buying a new hub/wheel.

And it isn't just entry level bikes that are getting this treatment. It is really a shame that manufacturers are on board with it as well. Bikes that used to ship with SRAM GX Eagle or even just GX are now getting specc'd with the lower cost/quality NX/SX kit. Prices, strangely, haven't followed...

Here is a prime example
www.konaworld.com/process_134_dl_275.cfm
A $3,600 bike and they are putting that crap on it.

 @Poulsbojohnny: I'll probably just replace it with the same system. If you say the functionality isn't the issue, then I don't see the real problem. Why upgrade if what you've already got works? I'm not into xc or anything, I just like fun enduro runs. All I need of my drive train is functional not premium. I'd be more focused on upgrading or changing everything else first. If it doesn't last though, I'd consider something else. But if it works, it works.

 @Poulsbojohnny: Now we have the new Deore groups that look like great replacements on a tight budget.

 Counterpoint to that would be that if you take someone to whom any reasonably modern bike is a revelation, they'll easily miss the nuance.

 On that note, I really wish they’d told us more about the differences between these bikes and ones that cost 2-4x as much. After reading these reviews, it sounds like these bikes are almost as good as much more expensive ones, but I’m sure that’s not the case.

 It's more the plants that want to get you - everything is super sharp and pointy in the desert. If you take an inside line you'll pay for it. There are coyotes, javelinas, scorpions, and snakes, but those aren't really anything to worry about.

 @mikekazimer: still sounds fraught with hazard, with teeth and stings and bites. #complacencyhurts

 @mikekazimer: I agree, the wildlife is not what you have to worry about while biking in Arizona. It's the sharp and pointy plants, and the sharp and pointy ground. The "dirt" is usually barely decomposed rock where all the edges are still sharp; there's no gravel or river stone that's been worn down by rivers or glaciers. If you hit the ground, you WILL hit something sharp. The joke about no inside lines is very true.
OTOH, perfect weather, day after day after day. Just bring water and a radio beacon.

 @mikekazimer: Don't forget about mountain lions, those are the only things that truly spook me when it comes to encountering wildlife solo.

 I think you think that bikes are not durable. The average rider doesn't break frames on a regular basis. The only thing separating these bikes from more expensive bikes is components.

 @Poulsbojohnny: so true. Even on my cheap ass starter hardtail, that thing took a beating and still lasts just fine. Components are the real wear items. I don't think any of the bikes in this test would have trouble lasting 5-10 years with proper care.

 @Poulsbojohnny: Yeah we agree, I meant components. Giant does a pretty good job of adding value to their builds, but at a certain build level things get pretty sloppy and wear out fast. SRAM SX for example, and some of the lower end suspension doesn't hold up as long and ain't cheap to replace.

 Dick Pound

 Not as bad as Bossnut IMO. :-)

 Only mildly?

 Yeah. What's with that? It's pronounced like vital right, or am I going mad?

 Yes, I do call them that.

 Live tomorrow!

 Grim-bit

 Glad you enjoyed them

 Bad idea

 No, please don't.

 indeed

 Soooooooooon

 @mikelevy: Riiiiiiight...

 Because people buying new bikes, for the first time, have no idea what they are buying.

 I always used to think the same but have found the second hand market to have just got more and more expensive over the years, to the point where, unless you get lucky, you're hardly saving any money once you've replaced all the bits that are wearing out or are not quite what you want. At the same time direct to consumer brands have taken off and brought brand new prices down, so there's even less of a difference. You also don't have to worry about hidden issues such as cracks or whatever

 So I do pretty much all my own mechanical work and am a college student on a budget, so perfect candidate for used. 3 problems with buying used, just my opinion. First is 75% of people are selling for a ridiculous price. I get that it's their special bike and they don't want to let it go cheap, but the used prices are just crazy. And if something does go for a decent price, it's immediately snagged. Second is when you can find a good price, it seems like there's always something you won't see that will end up costing a ton negating the price savings in the first place. I've had 2 friends buy good used deals on what seemed like quality bikes (and they tested them and looked them over). In both cases after about 2-3 weeks they found out something suspension related needed to be replaced, which knocked out all the savings. And probably the biggest point, you don't get a warranty on the frame and it's just nice starting out with totally fresh gear. Also let's you get familiar with how the bike should feel a lot more.

So personally I've been riding a hardtail the last 2.5 years, upgraded basically everything on it. Always wanted to go FS though. I got the Vitus Mystique VRS for $1500 and it's amazing. Better than any used deal I saw. So if you can find an awesome used deal, hell yeah! But for most people I'd recommend a similar route I went. Unless you've got tons of time to devote to online searching, it's just not worth it.