Field Test: Ghost Riot Trail Full Party - The Mixed Message Machine
PINKBIKE FIELD TEST
Ghost Riot Trail Full Party
Words by Mike Kazimer / photography by Tom Richards
Ghost Riot Trail Full Party
Words by Mike Kazimer / photography by Tom Richards
What exactly constitutes an 'aggressive trail bike'? There's obviously no exact definition, but the Ghost Riot Trail sure looks like it fits the bill. This aluminum-framed machine has 29” wheels, 140mm of coil-sprung rear travel, and plenty of purple highlights to go along with its 'Full Party' model name.
That 140mm of travel is delivered via Ghost's Traction Link suspension design, where a one-piece swingarm is connected to the front of the bike via two co-rotating links. Rearward axle paths may be all the rage, but Ghost went with a more vertical path that's claimed to help preserve the bike's geometry throughout the travel.
That 140mm of travel is delivered via Ghost's Traction Link suspension design, where a one-piece swingarm is connected to the front of the bike via two co-rotating links. Rearward axle paths may be all the rage, but Ghost went with a more vertical path that's claimed to help preserve the bike's geometry throughout the travel.
Ghost Riot Trail Details
• Travel: 140mm rear / 140mm fork
• Aluminum frame
• Wheel size: 29"
• Head angle: 66°
• Effective seat tube angle: 77°
• Reach: 467mm (size M)
• Chainstay length: 450mm (size M)
• Sizes: S, M (tested), L, XL
• Weight: 36 lb / 16.3 kg
• Price: 3,699 Euro (not available in USA)
• ghost-bikes.com
• Travel: 140mm rear / 140mm fork
• Aluminum frame
• Wheel size: 29"
• Head angle: 66°
• Effective seat tube angle: 77°
• Reach: 467mm (size M)
• Chainstay length: 450mm (size M)
• Sizes: S, M (tested), L, XL
• Weight: 36 lb / 16.3 kg
• Price: 3,699 Euro (not available in USA)
• ghost-bikes.com
There's plenty of room for a water bottle inside the front triangle, although our test bike showed up with with a magnetic Fidlok mounting system that ended up being more of a hassle rather than an actual improvement over a traditional cage. The cables are externally routed along the downtube, with a plastic cover that makes them appear to be internally routed at first glance.
When it came time to decide which size to request, we decided to go stick with what Ghost's 'Superfit' online calculator suggested. After all, Ghost says they “utilize a specially developed algorithm to holistically calculate our so-called 'from-rider-to-bike-geometries.' That meant we ended up with a size medium, which has a 467mm reach, 450mm chainstays, a 77-degree seat tube angle, and a 66-degree head angle. Those numbers give the Riot trail the longest chainstay length, the shortest reach, and the steepest head angle out of of the six bikes that were in for testing.
It's worth noting that the seat tube lengths are on the longer side of things, measuring 441mm for a size medium, and 465mm for a size large.
Built Kit
The Full Party build kits highlights include Formula's Selva S fork, Mod coil shock, and Cura brakes. RockShox and Fox tend to show up on the vast majority of complete bikes these days, so it was nice to see something a little less common added into the mix. Both the fork and the shock have compression circuits that can be easily swapped out, part of Formula's CTS (Compression Tuning System).
There's also a Shimano XT 12-speed drivetrain, Syntace V30 wheelset, and an Eightpins integrated dropper post. The concept of an integrated post makes a lot of sense, but it was a little frustrating to realize that the amount of travel was limited to 160mm, despite the fact that Eightpins offers options with more drop. In addition, the ergonomics of the remote lever were lacking compared the shifter-style options that have become the norm.
The Ghost Riot Trail isn't currently available in the US, but in parts of the world where it is available the price is 3699 Euro.
Climbing
With its chunky aluminum frame and coil shock I didn't expect the Ghost to be super light, but I also didn't think that it would weigh 36 pounds - that's a whole two pounds more than the steel Starling Murmur. Needless to say, that weight means the Riot Trail feels less energetic than the Propain Hugene or Scor 4060 ST, bikes that are almost five pounds lighter.
Weight aside, the Riot Trail is an active climber, with noticeable suspension movement, particularly during out of the saddle efforts. Yes, coil shocks typically bob a little more while pedaling compared to air shocks, but the Ghost had even more motion than expected. The Starling Murmur also had a coil shock, and it was a much more calm and composed than the Riot.
The Formula Mod shock does have a lockout lever that saw plenty of use on fire road grinds, although it takes a fair bit of effort to actually move the lever, and when it's locked out it's really locked out, which meant that position didn't work well for more techy climbs.
As far as the overall climbing position goes, the steep seat tube angle and short top tube length create a very upright position that felt a little cramped at times. It felt like I was perched above the bike, rather than being comfortably centered between the two wheels. The front end handling is quick, but the long chainstays keep the overall level of nimbleness in check.
Descending
The feeling of being perched above the bike persisted when the trail pointed downhill, which meant that descending on the Riot Trail was, umm, interesting, to put it nicely. There was plenty of traction from the Mod coil shock, and the Selva S was smooth and supportive, but the purple Italian suspension wasn't enough to hide the fact that the Riot Trail's geometry holds it back, especially on steeper, higher speed trails. The relatively long chainstays do help bring some stability to the table, but the low front end and steeper head angle make it hard to confidently charge in rough terrain.
It should be clear by now that the size medium wasn't the exactly the ideal fit. Would a large have been better? That's obviously tough to say without riding one, but I think bumping up a size would have brought in another set of potential fit issues.
The feeling of being perched above the bike persisted when the trail pointed downhill, which meant that descending on the Riot Trail was, umm, interesting, to put it nicely. There was plenty of traction from the Mod coil shock, and the Selva S was smooth and supportive, but the purple Italian suspension wasn't enough to hide the fact that the Riot Trail's geometry holds it back, especially on steeper, higher speed trails. The relatively long chainstays do help bring some stability to the table, but the low front end and steeper head angle make it hard to confidently charge in rough terrain.
It should be clear by now that the size medium wasn't the exactly the ideal fit. Would a large have been better? That's obviously tough to say without riding one, but I think bumping up a size would have brought in another set of potential fit issues.
Timed Testing
Our timed lap for the trail bikes was about three minutes long and was a mix of choppy, rooty sections and some fast flow. It started with an optional rock roll, a little drop, some fast corners, and a small double. As it serpentined its way down the hill, it included some steeps, a few root hops, and a few slight uphills. While none of the track was overly technical, the bikes that excelled on the test lap had to be capable on both fast, rough sections and in quick corners.
Don't forget that timing is just one of many ways to judge a bike, and fast doesn't always mean it's the best for everyone.
Mike Kazimer: "My timed lap on the Riot Trail was the slowest out of the six bikes on test, coming in just behind the Starling Murmur."
The large has a very long 465mm seat tube length, which could make running a longer dropper post impossible for some riders. It also has a very tall 140mm head tube, 40mm more than the size medium. The 487mm reach isn't out of the ordinary, but when that's paired with those 450mm chainstays it does make for a pretty roomy bike, especially if you're looking for a more lively trail machine.
Excess weight aside, the bike's geometry just doesn't give it the level of goof-off-ability that I want from a bike like this. With a slacker head angle and shorter chainstays I think it would be a different story, but as it is the Full Party feels more like a blast from the past rather than a fully modern trail bike. I'm a huge fan of the concept behind the Riot Trail – the idea of a tough, shorter travel trail bike with a coil shock is good one, which made it all the more frustrating when it didn't live up to its promise out on the trail. It's like having someone burst into the room at a New Year's Eve party fully of energy and ready to rage like there's no tomorrow, only to fall asleep in the corner at 9pm.
Who's the ideal candidate? I'd say it's a rider whose trails are rough but not overly steep, someone who's looking for a bike to take the edge off of bigger hits rather than riding fully pinned at every opportunity. And they should also really like purple.
Pros
+ Formula suspension and brakes help it stand out from the crowd.
+ Reasonable price considering the parts kit
Cons
- Heavy, especially for a 140mm trail bike
- Geometry holds it back in steeper terrain
- Noticeable suspension bob while climbing
The 2021 Fall Field Test is presented by Rapha and Bontrager. Thank you also to Maxxis, Schwalbe, and Garmin for control tires and equipment.
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www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes/fully/bike/riot-en-full-party-2021
www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes/fully/bike/riot-am-full-party-2022
It's a turd however you look at it, sos
Formula brake, fork and coil shock (I have the same on my Titan), shimano xt, eightpins dropper.... that really looks like a custom bike a lot of people would dream of building, sold to you already build (and available lol) at a good price!! Kudos to Ghost!
Oh and don't forget the cable routing!! You have no idea how much I hate internal routing!
Needless to say, I have a Zeb on my bike now. It was half the price of the Selva… but is it half as good?
Cons: shit
Pros: cable routing, integrated dropper, purple
Cons: weight, says "full party" on the side
The integrated dropper is definitely a sweet concept.
I agree about exposed cables in that location - I know personally of two people who have flicked up rocks and cut their rear brake hose. Not mental DH either, just trail riding in rocky areas.
Weight = heavy-ish 170+mm bike
Geometry = 2008
I would actually be curious to see this bike ridden and compared directly to a "legacy" bike with similar weight, travel and geo numbers. This thing is basically a 2008 Specialized Enduro, with higher overall weight, longer chainstays, less travel and bigger wheels.
HTA = 65.5 - 66 (66)
Reach = 450 (467)
STA = ~77 deg (77)
CS = 450 (450)
ST Length = 430 (441)
Problem solved!
Aside from that, the Ghost has many significantly less modern numbers than the 2008: -10mm suspension travel, +5 lbs of extra weight (compared to a bike with 3x9 drivetrain and dual crown fork), +52mm of standover height, and +100mm of seat tube length.
I'm not saying its a 1:1 comparison. But I purposefully used a preposterous example to highlight how scary bad the Ghost is.
I have a prime, it’s ok, it’s not 36lbs even with dd tires and inserts. It also climbs amazingly, no pedal bob. About as capable as you’d expect for a 135 bike, but very playful despite the 450 chainstay. I wouldn’t compare it to this. This reminds me more of the the gen 1 hightower except it can’t pedal or an older Kona 134
For a M it actually has a very long Reach # of 467
Standover & seattube length may be sub-optimal since it has a straight TT, but well within workable dimensions.
Things like weight are meaningless between generations without looking at big pictures, tires, wheels (29 vs 26), coil shock vs air, etc....
It doesn't make sense to compare travel
This bike is likely better on the descents, at least on paper....
Saying you wouldn't "submit a request" to your engineering corp for a bike with this geometry is kind of a cop out, because @KJP1230 specifically said "engineered a better bike." Speccing a weight and HTA is not exactly "engineering a bike."
467 reach on a medium. 66° HTA. 29" wheels. While not exactly long and slack by today's standard its an absolutely normal geo for a trailbike.
The og YT jeffsy which was loved by absolutely everyone has 460 reach (in XL size!) and 67° hta and came out around 2015. Look at the canyon spectral from 2015 (review on this site) and it has a 420 reach and 67° hta in 2016. We are talking about times when mindraker numbers were considered fully absurd.
The ghost is a bit weird because the seemingly very heavy frame and long chainstay and I am not saying it's the perfect bike. But 2008 come on, that's just over the top.
Hightower = 610
SB130 = 615
Stumpy = ~620
Prime = 630 (Banshees have tall HT's for size M)
I actually thought this Ghost was cool and a bit less extreme is some areas (HTA) while being a bit more in others (Reach)....not sure what to make of it, just different I guess?
When you combine that with the long chainstays and steep seat tube angle, you're being pushed pretty far toward the front of the bike when seated. Then when you're descending, those things make it harder to get your weight back, and the long-ish seat tube makes it so you can't put on a big dropper to get the saddle further out of the way.
Not every bike needs to have a short CS, high stack, and short seat tube so you can buzz your backside on every single bump. But the geo of this one seems to be hellbent on making sure you are as far in front of the rear axle as possible.
Sj evo seems like one of the best all around nerd on the market at the moment.
Not sure what stem they are running but may be able to put a shorter one on or run some bars with more sweep putting you into a more std. position, somewhat akin to Lee McCormack's RAD.
This honestly is a bit Geometron'ish, minus HTA, the G13 in size S vs this in M (Ghost):
HTA = 64.2 - 65.2 (66)
Stack = 601 (615)
Reach = 460 (467)
STA = ~76 (77)
CS = 445 (450)
ST Length = 420 (441)
Wheelbase = 1237 (1230)
A few years back Kabush was on a SB130 with a 160 fork enduro-ized
We chose the Ghost because we haven't had them on before, it's got the potential for great value, and the build is pretty interesting.
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/Ghost%20Bikes?m=0
I am 188cm and choose the Riot Enduro Full Party in XL. It‘s heavy, for sure, but it pedals quite well and is a blast in the downhill. 196mm dropper, long reach and chainstays, outdtanding supsension and a uniqe (discutable) look. Best bike I ever had, came from propain spindrift cf wich was very unsensible.
Next Week: Sam Pilgrim smashes double black tech and rides a full slopestyle course on new Ghost Riot.
- unefficient climber: that's why there is a climb switch ...
- unbalanced: they even admit that suspension isn't balanced and clearly they didn't bother trying to fix it despite how easy it is to setup Formula suspensions with their cartridge inserts.
- low front: play around with spacers and/or handlebar. Same was true for the starling.
Reviewing bikes without taking a little bit of time to have tue bike setup properly is such a scam. We all do it when getting new bikes since stock setups rarely match our needs, putting the bike down before proper setup is just not fair nor professional. I always though PB was offering trustworthy reviews but I am doubting this now.
It is so unusual for these guys to actually dislike a bike that I believe that there has to be something here.
We mention the things that could possibly be done to improve the bike in the review, since most riders would be in the same position as us at first as they tried to get accustomed to the bike. I genuinely wanted to like the bike, and I say as much in the video - the concept of a tough 140mm bike is sound, it's just that in this case the execution is lacking.
If you're considering buying this bike I'd highly recommend trying to arrange a test ride if that's at all possible - who knows, maybe you'll still disagree with our findings, and that's totally fine. However, because we were lucky enough to ride a half dozen bikes on the same track back-to-back, I'm confident that our impressions of the Ghost are accurate.
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/Ghost%20Bikes
In other words, it's not a nimble bike.
I suspect the long chainstays are a reflection of how the rear suspension functions, ie they needed more RC to have tire clearance, but to make the riding position upright and compact up front, then make the back end longer, yeah, kind of a fail.
Nice kit though.
I'm currently running this for on a Banshee and have been really impressed, which coming off a fox 38 elite says a lot, so I wanted find out how you think it compares. (AKA Please validate my feelings)
Increasing the head tube length makes this more sane so that a 25 mm riser bar may be appropriate for either of the bikes. The following link has some interesting pictures showing how tall seats can make the handlebars look really low.
m.pinkbike.com/news/importance-of-handlebar-height-mountain-bike.html
I don't think anyone expected much more from a review.
When you budget goes into online marketing and SEO optimization, they're little left for R & D
SOLD
www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes/fully/bike/riot-en-full-party-2021
www.ghost-bikes.com/bikes/fully/bike/riot-am-full-party-2022
What does this mean?
Too bad, because the alu frame, XT drivetrain, Formula fork, coil shock and brakes, and Eightpin dropper seem like great choices.
Propain
YT
Canyon
Cube
Focus
Ghost
Is Rose a thing? Anything else?
Also, I think the new Canyon Bikes (Spectral and Troque) beat everything YT and Propain has. At least thats what the geo charts suggest. The bikes with less travel in canyons Lineup are shit tho.
Care to reproduce my list? I'm biased to YT because I ride a Jeffsy and I think it kind of rules and I like the geo, but Canyons have really come up big in the last couple years. But yeah, it's really interesting how Germany has really become a force in MTB world and primarily through the DTC model.
Nicolai
Liteville
Actofive
Huhn Cycles
My „Hype“ list:
RAAW
Propain
YT
Nicolai
Radon
Rose
Canyon
Liteville
Cube, Focus, Ghost
The ones I actually rode/owned:
RAAW: for me the benchmark right now for my style of riding
Focus: I owned a JAM a few years back when the brand image was completely different. Can’t talk about the current bikes though…
Cube: Just shitty bikes…never owned one but worked with them for a few months and that was enough. They might look like a good deal at first glance and don’t ride bad (no bike does nowadays) but if you start looking at details it gets really bad
Actofive
Huhn Cycles
Nicolai
Last
Kavenz
Crossworkx
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/search/label/Ghost%20Bikes?m=0
Edit: Levy goes on to say that Ghost intended for the axle path to be vertical instead of having a forward arc. That would also lend itself to the lower link rotating down and away from the bike as it starts pointing up and needs to rotating to point toward the back of the bike to keep from pulling in the axle as the upper link pulls the rear triangle forward.
That direction change is partly responsible for the linearity of the rear axle path.
I am no proper armchair engineer, but something seems a little odd.
Cons: everything that is the frame
If MEC didn’t carry Ghost, nobody in Canada would know them.
I do agree though about air shocks. They're so good now and probably would help.
Is there a way to quantify “good” descending beyond a stopwatch?
The most “fun” descender I’ve tried was an Evil Wreckoning. The short chainstays made it a party descending (way fun to get in the air) but it was still fast.
Short chain stays = party