DT Swiss Updates 350 Hub & Launches Ratchet Upgrade System - Pond Beaver 2021

Apr 12, 2021
by Alicia Leggett  
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DT Swiss has introduced a new version of the classic 350 Hub alongside a new ratchet upgrade system to convert their three-pawl hub systems to DT’s Ratchet LN design. That Ratchet LN design is now found on DT's 370 hubs, rather than the three pawl configuration that was used before.

DT Swiss also released a limited-edition Oil Slick 240 Hub last month, with 1,000 individual hubs distributed worldwide.

The New 350 Hubs

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The updated 350 Hubs use the mid-level Ratchet system, which sits between the Ratchet LN and the high-end Ratchet EXP. The hubs are available for all the major axle and freehub specs and come in 28h and 32h configurations. Although they come standard with 36t ratchets, DT Swiss offers ratchet options from 18t to 54t, with engagement angles ranging from 20 to 6.7 degrees.

One feature that stands out is the tool-free design for maintenance and part swapping. Each hub end cap has a notch that allows it to easily be removed to access the internals, whether for routine maintenance, swapping out the ratchets for a different number of engagement points, or changing freehub bodies between the available SRAM XD, standard Shimano, and Shimano MicroSpline options.

Pricing starts at $101.90 (front) and $272.90 (rear) USD.

Ratchet System Upgrade

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DT Swiss’ Ratchet system distributes force over a larger area than the traditional three-pawl system, making the hubs more reliable, DT says. Rather than engaging in just three points at the pawls, the ratchet teeth all engage simultaneously for even load distribution.

The conversion kit includes all the necessary parts: two 18t ratchets, a threaded ring, springs, a shim ring, a spacer, and a SRAM XD, standard Shimano, or Shimano MicroSpline freehub body.

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DT Swiss also offers 24t, 36t, and 54t upgrades for the conversion kit. Pricing ranges from $96.60 to $130.90 USD.

240 Oil Slick Limited

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For those who want bling with their ratchet system, DT Swiss has a shiny, lightweight option if folks can get their hands on it.

The top-of-the-line 240 Oil Slick Hubs sport all the ratchet features mentioned above, such as tool-free serviceability, with the lighter Ratchet EXP freehub system. Unlike the Ratchet LN and Ratchet designs, which use two conical springs to press the ratchets together, the Ratchet EXP saves weight by using only one spring and integrating the inner ratchet with a threaded ring that is typically a separate part. The streamlined system also hides the drive-side bearing inside that same threaded ring, allowing for a claimed 15% increase in axle stiffness, thanks to an increase in the distance between the bearings.

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Ratchet EXP: light and streamlined.

The hubs are available through DT Swiss dealers, starting at $235.90 (front) and $476.90 (rear) USD.



Pond Beaver 2021


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169 Comments
  • 67 2
 Haven't they been doing the ratchet upgrade system for a number of years already?
  • 72 2
 Sort of - you had to order the parts individually, and this new one has a seal on the freehub body that wasn't there on the previous option.
  • 16 0
 The parts were available individually, but not as a single, complete kit.
  • 26 1
 Conversion stories abound on the joy that is MTBR - how hard the drive ring is to remove on those 370 hubs. Tools split, things are frozen, guys using 2x4s for leverage... It's a good one.
  • 8 0
 @shredddr: Yep - I broke my vice actually. Rim stood true though, shockingly. 60 miles since and still strong.
  • 5 0
 @shredddr: I have found a little bit of heat works well... but yeah, be prepared to stress your spokes a bit, and lock the tool in a well mounted vise.
  • 5 2
 @mikekazimer: yeah, but this is conversion to 18t, and if you want more, you need to buy it separately. So what's the point?
  • 4 1
 @mikekazimer: You still have to purchase both star and ratchet tool separately though, correct? 18t the only option with kit? So if you want more engagement, another upgrade!
  • 5 0
 @IntenseYeti05: I also broke my vice but I was just removing the lockring to do a bearing switch
  • 3 0
 @mikekazimer: but then you still need the tools.
  • 5 0
 @shredddr: Yes, I'm another one! I heated the hub with a blower and cooled my ring nut with dry ice and it finally gave in.

Nice to have a kit but why not offer it with 54T directly and the 2 nuts for the star and pawl ring are still extra. Ordering from China is another adventure- I waited 4 weeks just to find that I got the star nut twice.
  • 2 0
 This is the upgrade of the ratchet upgrade system.
  • 8 0
 @shredddr: dts star ratchet tool is garbage. I've made my own using solid center 18t star ratchet welded to the tip of a deep 1/2" drive socket of appropriate diameter. It's phenomenal. Those lock rings come out like nothing with an 18" flex handle amd the wheel braced against the ground.
  • 9 0
 I know they're not inexpensive, but a mini-ductor is one of the single best tool investments I've made in a long time. I used to struggle with either a heat gun (small parts) propane/MAPP gas torch (slightly larger) or Oxy/Acetylene (get out of my way bolts) to remove stuck parts. I got a Mini-ductor and what a difference. I can directly heat parts without the risk of burning my garage to the ground. You can use it to heat bearings without worrying about damaging them, remove a stuck seat post without cooking the paint off the frame or get all mid-evil on a stuck bolt. It's quiet, uses about 10A of 120Vac and doesn't require expensive consumables. Also, you can make your own heating coils with some litz wire and a bit of fiberglass sleeve. My brother used it to remove some hail damage from his car without any paint removal. I removed a 38 year old air fitting the other day in about 30sec. the guy had been struggling with it for an hour, I hit it with the mini-ductor until it started to smoke a little bit, threw a wrench on it and it backed out without any struggle..
  • 1 4
 @chrsei: I ordered from Amazon and then returned it 4 days and got the 150 bucks back. So total cost for upgrade from 18T to 54T was 180 in change. Much more cost efficient VS upgrading hub and wheel build on a brand new bike. And now service you don't need the lock ring tool because you shouldn't have to remove it. Just remove and inspect bearings, grease, and go.
  • 1 0
 @mgrantorser: to get out the pawl ring drive you need a different tool, and perhaps those are particularly low quality...? curious about the mini-ductor that @BikesBoatsNJeeps mentions, but I think I need to wait until my kids are in school fulltime before i could make use of that type of thing.
  • 2 3
 ALL DT SWISS Hubs should come standard with the 54tooth... change my mind.
  • 1 0
 @shredddr: yeah I looked up the mini ductor... seems pretty legit, but also commands a pretty hefty price tag...If I was restoring an old tractor, it would probably pay itself off in time saved, but for bike stuff I doubt it.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: they’re on my list of stuff I would find handy but can still live without at this point in time. I’ll get one eventually.
  • 1 0
 @Afterschoolsports: It's a sweet tool I got it since I was tired of breaking out the torch all the time. As my name implies, I work on a lot more than just bikes, and since I'm always taking apart rusty old stuff, it was worth the investment. I wouldn't go so far as to say it has paid for itself, but if you've ever struggled with ball joints on a junk yard Dana 44, the mini-ductor loosened them up without any fuss, and without igniting the grease and baking the rubber dust cover, it's nice to heat a stuck bolt without setting everything around it on fire. My brother was an auto mechanic for 13 years and I got him one too, every time he uses it he sends me a picture he appreciates it so much. Since he shifted his focus and left the shop full time, he became reluctant to use torches since all his work is in his personal garage now. The mini-ductor gave him the utility of an oxy torch for removing stuck stuff, with out the risk of igniting an adjacent fuel line. The dent removal from his GTI's roof was the frosting on the cake though.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: I'd say it's paid for itself in the joy,laughs and entertainment it's brought you. we spend money on our hobbies for fun - not just financial return or savings. sounds like you're winning on this one.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: oh yeah. I live on a farm, and work at an engineering firm, I know all about the joys of stuck stuff and impossible to install/remove bearings. I just bought a new lathe though so I need to curtail spending until after tax time.
  • 1 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Random tips like this! Good stuff and def not cheap
  • 38 1
 Does the upgrade kit come with the Hulk to remove the old drive ring?
  • 36 4
 That's so ratchet.
  • 15 1
 Stop trying to make ratchet happen.
  • 29 0
 The tool free feature alone makes them the best hubs I ever had, but their smooth and quick operation is superb.
  • 3 5
 You should check out Erase Hubs. Similar to DT, just better.
  • 6 2
 Unless you fix a flat on the trail, the cassette falls off and then you have to collect the parts and plug away the dirt from the grease on the star ratchet ... after that I remember to never have the cassette pointing downwards.
  • 3 0
 @z-man: Not sure why you are catching the down votes.

Erase hubs work on a similar style of ratchet engagement, but come with larger 60T ratchets from stock. Made of titanium. They also have angular contact bearings, and are extremely light, partly due to the titanium freehub. Cost is also very reasonable.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/20447862
  • 22 1
 Gotta have that special grease!
  • 80 1
 You know somewhere at DT there has to be a guy whose sole job is to take a large tub of 'regular grease' and repackage it into 'special grease' tubes so you feel that much better about your purchase.
  • 5 0
 @n00bmtbr: He (or she) must have an interesting job title.
  • 4 0
 Redline engine assembly lube works perfect in these hubs. I have two DT350 hubs going on 6 years now.
  • 7 0
 @Lemke: Jesus, it looks EXACTLY the same! www.redlineoil.com/assembly-lube
  • 2 0
 @todd96srv: Yep. The Redline CV joint grease matches the consistency almost exactly. The engine assembly lube is a little lighter, and "frees" up the hub just a bit.
  • 4 0
 @noapathy: the lubinator? VP of Lube repackaging? Senior director of lubrication logistics?
  • 6 0
 @todd96srv: lol. trust me, the DT shit IS 100% just some off the shelf grease. all lubricants are. shock/fork oil? yeah you can go get it for 80% less from Mobil or Shell. literally just find the material data sheets for the oils and match them up.

related, I have like a dozen or more of the little DT grease canisters from doing upgrades for people. theres about 45 years worth of grease in each one. LOL
  • 2 0
 @conoat: Not 100%, but pretty darn close. There are areas outside of bikes where specialty lubricants are formulated for specific needs. Bikes are very low stress on the lubricants that are used. The redline assembly lube makes sense, as it is a high moly lube, moly lubes being used for surfaces with sliding contact.
  • 5 0
 @carym: almost all fork and shock oils are slide oils. in fact, I just serviced my Ohlins fork with some Mobil Vactra #2 that is a dead match for the Ohlins oil. it was £7 for a liter, instead of £25 for 500ml. lol

furtherly, if your shock or fork manufacturer are still spec'ing non-slide oils, feel free to match up the viscosity with a top spec slide oil and use that. it will work better, gauranteed.
  • 2 0
 @conoat: The closest product that I could find by matching SDS / TDS documentation was a Molykote lube that is sold by the 5 gallon pail locally. At any rate, the Jenson sourced DT 54t upgrade that I bought years ago came with a little can that will last me long enough to lube my rats and then some...
  • 1 0
 @conoat: penrite rockslide 68 over here. Run on both my dirt bike and mtb’s. We buy 200L drums of it at work. It’s also great stuff to run in an ultrasonic cleaner to clean bearings that are pretty trashed.
  • 14 3
 My son and I both have the original onyx rear hubs. After quite a few years of hard use, never had to do shit to them. They have pretty much zero drag when they get broken in. Engagement is instant. After you buy the DT hub, the kit, and the tool, why not just buy a Hydra or Onyx and be done with it.
  • 12 0
 They are great hubs but the original rear Onyx is something like double the weight of a DT 240.
  • 4 1
 my rear classic freehub body bearing and main left blew after 5 months of riding. And no I don't wash my bike with a pressure hose. Replaced with non ceramic and it's now perfect.
  • 4 0
 I really like my Onyx in terms of how it feels - smooth, quiet and instant engagement.
I've had problems though - 1 sprag clutch lunched itself and I've had 2 through-axles snap, this is in 2 years of use. They've just changed the axle design to not be threaded so I (hopefully) won't get the problem again. Oh, and they weigh a lot. My classic rear weighs more than my friends I9 front and rear hubs combined.

Customer service from them is top notch though, cannot fault them on that front.
  • 2 0
 @Snowytrail: does hub weight matters much?
  • 3 1
 My classic Onyx hub had the steel HG freehub body. I rode on it for a couple of years and the freehub body cracked and needed replacement 5 times. Customer service was good. Dan sent me out a replacement part every time it broke. Apparently it was a heat treating issue in conjunction with a thin section in the part. Vesper now use DT freehub bodies, so it's a non issue now.
  • 5 1
 @Noeserd: Heavier hub = more unsprung weight, so yes.
  • 3 0
 @2d-cutout: but it is in the middle of the circle, rim weight matters a lot but does hub really matters that much ?(aside from complete bike weight) I'm sure there is a calculation for it
  • 5 0
 @Noeserd: It may not carry the rotational inertia of a rim/tire. but it's still unsprung weight.
  • 2 0
 @Noeserd: As Maxx said, yes unsprung weight matters - that is why gearbox bikes having no rear cassette or proper derailleur feel nicer (obviously 'feel' is a personal thing - less unsprung weight means the suspension can work more efficiently by having less inertia to start and stop moving).

Me running Cushcore affects the rotational weight of the wheel, which is what you're talking about.
  • 1 0
 @2d-cutout: thanks for explaining
  • 1 0
 @maxxx: it matters less than you think. there's a video posted here recently with Dakota Norton running setup tests and he tapes water bottles on the bike. At one point he had two 500ml bottles on his chainstays right at the axle. he noticed zero difference. if an entire Kg of water doesn't affect a pro, I highly doubt a few hundred grams would be noticeable to a mortal.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: I won't argue that it's perceptible, but in theory having the suspension deal with additional unsprung mass is always going to be detrimental, and this goes for all forms of motorsport too. I'm sure the vast majority us won't be able to notice an extra pound here or there, but that doesn't stop us from spending hundreds to save grams, and if you are, the best place to do it (again, in theory) is on the far end of the suspension.
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: It matters when you pick the bike up off the ground it doesn't matter when your peddling.
  • 1 0
 @jason475: my bike weighs 16.5 Big Grin i'm beyond that point
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: coil, cush and onyx im at 17 Smile
  • 1 0
 @senorbanana: i don't think i can pedal if i install cushcore to my wheels Big Grin they are already 2400g+ tyres
  • 1 0
 @Noeserd: That's ridiculous, what tyres are you running?
I've accepted I kill tyres no matter what casing they have so have started running Exo+ or GRID or equivalent because it's nice to have less rotational weight, and I'm going to kill it anyway, despite the Cushcore.

@conoat I saw that video too, not sure exactly where he put them on the chainstays though. If they were near the pivot, it won't make much difference, if they were at the rear wheel it would. Maybe he noticed zero difference in stability of the bike, but (again, dependent on bottle location) he'd have noticed a difference in suspension performance, but it might not have a negative impact on the way the bike felt. He was looking for TIME in his sessions rather than specifically for it to 'feel nice'.
  • 1 0
 @2d-cutout: my setup is fortus 30 wheelset+
Magic marry snakeskin 2.6 soft + big betty soft sg 2.4. Set weight is around 4.4-4.5kg but i'm a heavy guy, because of that i chose heavy wheels so that they last
  • 13 2
 Any confirmation that they have their shit sorted out with the exp hubs?

Is the new 350ln hub the same setup as the previous version just with 36t star ratchets standard now?
  • 13 1
 Just to enumerate the shit that needs to be sorted, learn about all the 240 EXP hub failures here:
www.mtbr.com/threads/dtswiss-240-exp-engagement-problem.1158241/page-9#post-15275565
  • 3 1
 @half-man-half-scab: I wouldn't call it failures as much as functional malfunctioning. Ratchets stop engagement- pull hub apart an back together (all trailside with no tools) and it works for a bit.

This never happened with the 240s and 350 style of 2 spring ratchets. Hoping that the 350 is still the unchanged version and not the reportedly troublesome 240exp style.

Rumor is it's a tolerance issue on the first batch but that rumor has never been confirmed by DT. They have a "fix" but are not saying what it is. If it is/was a manufacturing tolerance issue then I would be looking at the oil slick hubs right now as that is easily fixable. But with no confirmation well.....
  • 5 0
 just chiming in that I've got a brand new 240 hub (now one month old) and have been suffering the same engagement failure. happened for the first time in a race. has happened twice since.
  • 11 0
 Add another failure to the pile. Loved my old 240S hubs but this new 240EXP is just downright dangerous. Imagine pedalling fine, quick pause before a punchy tech climb.. hammer the pedals and there’s NOTHING there.

Best case you swear at your pos hub and have no confidence that it will work next time. Worst case, you end up with a concussion and dental surgery. Hey DTSwiss, own up to your issue and fix it!!!
  • 4 0
 @riddenagenda: Good riding buddy has had no end of issues with EXP failures on his 240 rear hub (XMC1200 wheels) Been back to the shop for a rebuild 3 times now and it keeps on failing. Shop is paying for a Hope hub now.
  • 5 0
 That sucks to hear. I wasn't aware. The 350 has been my staple on all my bikes as it has proven the most reliable and simple to service of any hub I have owned... including some of the boutique ones like the I9 and Kings. Don't get me wrong, the boutique ones are stellar and the angry bees get lots of love... I just have a thing for straightforward, reliable, and reasonably priced products... which the 350 has been.
  • 4 0
 @onemind123: on the money. The engagement rings are too small for the freehub body and will end up on an angle. this causes them to jam. Mine has been like it since new, the aussie distro are getting it sorted for me.
  • 3 0
 @snl1200: I've also got 350 on another wheelset that's done a lot of kilometres, zero problems and also super quiet compared to the new 240.
  • 3 0
 I had same issue with 240 exp hub. Contacted NOBL which built the wheels and they told me to send them pics or video???? How am I to do that when it happens on trail randomly? I contacted DT Swiss directly and they sent out a shipping label and supposedly are going to fix it. Yes it is dangerous. I have this on an enduro bike and would hate to be going downhill throw a hard pedal stroke no engagement slip a pedal and disaster. It has a been a week and no wheel back yet but shipping ground. I hope they have a remedy to this issue. They won't disclose what issue is but it is a known problem. BTW have the old 240s hubs and are bombproof. Wish they never went to this design. @pinkbike care to comment on this issue because it is one and starting to be known in the bike community.
  • 2 0
 @g123: Could not agree more. It is dangerous. They won't disclose issue but they should be recalled.
  • 1 0
 @pills1975: what contact did you use for DTSwiss for the warranty? I’ve reached out to the Cdn distro and the DT Swiss head office and nothing but crickets so far..
  • 1 0
 @pills1975: its pretty common for warranty departments to want this. I could make mine lock up on demand when disassembled
  • 12 1
 Does this mean the new DT350s aren't compatible with "old" DT350s?
  • 13 7
 I don't get why people love these hubs. 3 month old 240 hub with a 3 month old 54 tooth ratchet...the ratchet blew last week as I was going up a steep climb. Literally fell forward on the bike cuz the ratchets weren't grabbing. Took apart and noticed the freehub bearing was rough. Cleaned everything and tried again and still trashed. Had the original 18T so have that back on. I've had a Hadley hub for 8 years, and never changed a bearing. I didn't know internals of a hub ever went bad, until I rode a DT.
  • 2 1
 New exp hub right?
  • 9 6
 Don't understand the whole deal either, so many years on Hope Pro 2 Evo, boost standard appeared, got an E1700 set, wheel goes out of true every 4 rides, 54t and 36t ratchet broke, warranty is a pain in the ass (you've used regular grease instead of our repackaged "special grease"?? No more warranty for you!) (Even if it's nipples snapping out of nowhere, completely unrelated to the hub).

Please someone enlighten me why DT Swiss is so "good".
  • 26 6
 @theoskar57: if only there were some possible correlation between you packing some random thick marine grease into your freehub and breaking the ratchet twice....
  • 1 2
 @theoskar57: some people just break shit
  • 7 11
flag NorCalNomad (Apr 12, 2021 at 20:46) (Below Threshold)
 @thegoodflow: Saying that a slightly different grease should be making a hardened metal part break different under bike loads is one of the dumber things I've heard today.
  • 10 4
 @NorCalNomad: ok... feel free to jam a big glob of park grease in a dt 54t star ratchet and then whine on the forums when it breaks if that floats your boat... you do you
  • 9 1
 @NorCalNomad: I think the problem is indeed that bike loads are very small. Put a thick grease inside, and the grease will not move out of the way enough for the ratchets to fully engage.
  • 2 9
flag theoskar57 (Apr 13, 2021 at 2:46) (Below Threshold)
 My bike shop literally told me they use this grease for their rental road bikes and never had a single problem, all their road bikes run 240 hubs. I always put the exact amount of grease, so I don't just bathe it in grease like you might think. In the end, it's fucking grease, it isn't supposed to be the reason that shit breaks apart.
  • 10 2
 @NorCalNomad: just because something is "hardened metal" does not mean it is overbuilt. Most bike parts are not overbuilt, even when they are constructed of "hardened metal", because the market has been obsessed with weight for decades. You may get lucky with a random grease, but you may also get unlucky. You wouldn't pack a car transmission full of grease, so why should a bicycle part designed within a millimeter of its life be capable of accepting any and all lubricants?
  • 7 0
 @MaplePanda: Some loads are actually pretty high, especially in the hub body. You can put a fair amount of torque down. The issue with grease is likely more to do with viscosity and a slew of other factors. Some greases will turn nearly solid in the cold, and over time will break down and will end up losing viscosity as well. Or, if you used a lube that isn't designed for high pressure applications (some lithium greases) or don't tolerate sheer well. As long as you match the API ratings you should be ok. This used to be an issue in the automotive industry with manufacturers refusing warranty claims due to owners not using the factory lubes. (Porsche, GM, Ferrari were well known for it) After a lot of litigation, the manufacturers were required to accept any lube that had the approved API rating. Hyundai tried the same thing with there Lambda engine failures, to no avail.
  • 2 1
 @theoskar57: You’d be surprised what using the wrong lubricant in the wrong quantities can do. Perhaps not in a bike application, but in other industries there is a lot of careful consideration.
  • 2 0
 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: That’s a fair point.
  • 8 1
 Did my 370 conversion a couple years ago. Still running strong! Went with the 54 tooth ring! Ending up going to the lbs for tools. Got the parts individually. Was worth it
  • 7 0
 What's the difference between Ratchet LN and regular Ratchet system? Tooth count?
  • 9 0
 1. The Ratchet is machined to be lighter, production of the LN is a little simpler.

2. More importantly, the Ratchet LN has a seal built into the freehub body, whereas the standard and fancy Ratchets rely on a seal built into the hub shell. Essentially this change is so that the Ratchet LN freehub body with a seal can better replace the pawled design (which also has a seal on the freehub body). Conversions up until now have worked okay but have lacked that seal, so this aims to address that.

3. Yep, the Ratchet LN is the entry-level / least sophisticated one, so it comes with the lowest tooth count.
  • 2 0
 @alicialeggett: As someone who's done the conversion twice it's not really a new freehub body. All you do is take the gasket seal that comes with the 370 freehub body and put it on the ratchet one.
  • 1 0
 @gus6464: it fits, but doesn't seat particularly tightly. Especially when the freehub is out
  • 4 0
 So the only thing new here is new graphics and now comes standard with the 36 tooth vs the old 18 tooth but 18 tooth still available to purchase separately, so nothing new but a sticker we’ll played. Also still one of my favourites hubs right after onyx.
  • 2 0
 Given the problems with the new 240s, if this is the case, it is great. The hubs now come with the ratchet they should and are still about the same price.
  • 4 1
 Hi all,
Before upgrading to the new EXP system from DtSwiss, you should read this thread about an engagement problem with this new system that is unclear if it solved or not:

www.mtbr.com/threads/dtswiss-240-exp-engagement-problem.1158241/page-9#post-15276794
  • 3 0
 Been running the standard 350 for 3 years now. Best purchase I made when building up my wheelset. I did upgrade to the 54 and it helped. I think the ratchet system is far better than traditional pawl system, especially for heavy riders. IT just works and super easy to maintain.
  • 2 0
 I wonder how much of the new 350 is motivated by the fact that the Chinese have knocked off the old hub perfectly. So perfect, you can swap the parts between the 350s and Chinese knockoffs, which cost 50% as much. While I am not one to purchase products that blatantly copy others intellectual property (patents have expired), I am sure a lot are being sold.
  • 2 0
 Ok ok my brain has now exploded, thank you all very much.

I just ordered a custom wheelset to be built with dt swiss 350 hubs. Do I want these new versions or the old ones? Someone please think for me.
  • 5 0
 Will those parts still be compatible with the older One-springed designs?
  • 3 1
 careful asking this. a logical question is downvote bait. No one can give an answer so they downvote out of confusion. had to email DT to find out, will report back for you instead of making fun.
  • 1 0
 @ridingofthebikes: any update on that same question? Big Grin
  • 1 0
 @psmith281: yeah! so they will be. but you will need a tool to remove the inside teeth of the hub. and they'll available july i was told. So yes 3 Pawl 370 owners rejoice.
  • 16 12
 18t ratchet should be binned.. That's 3rd world level of hub engagement. Come on DT, get with the times!
  • 18 6
 Not everyone is crazy about hub engagement - less teeth, less drag and maintenance. For off-season bikes that get ridden in snow and mud, 18t is ideal.
  • 13 4
 Stronger ratchet, better suspension performance, and near silent running. I'll take it.
  • 4 0
 @TheOriginalTwoTone: and less pedal kickback
  • 1 0
 If they ever can the 18t all together, I'll buy 5 sets for my spare shelf and replace new hubs with 18t ratchets. Yeah, I'm that guy.
  • 1 0
 i watched the new design fail on my friend 3 times, he was told by the shop that dt swiss said it was an issue with an alloy they used???? anyhow i hope they do a recall and anyone with the new design be careful as it made my buddy crash. I have had multiple sets of the old 240s without an issue. i think there may be a desing flaw with the new one.
  • 2 0
 As an informational reply this has very little meme value, but rsp Slick Kick is the best grease for freehubs in my experience.
  • 3 0
 Am I correct in remembering that a proprietary tool is necessary to complete the conversion which costs around $70?
  • 1 0
 2 tools, each $70 from DT, though quality 3rd party tools for $20-30 each do exist on Amazon, eBay, et al.
  • 6 6
 Its interesting that DT Swiss and Industry 9 (also Hope) have made significant upgrades to their hubs over the last few years, yet Chris King has remained unchanged. I know they're famous for durability etc, but it does seem like they've falling behind on technology and weight. I cant say that I'd consider a King hub when Dt Swiss and I9 options seem lighter, better priced, and/or more advanced (or some combination thereof depending on $$$).
  • 4 6
 I agree. Last year I built a new wheelset. Debated CK or i9 Hydras. Just way better tech in the Hydras so went with that.
  • 7 1
 Other than being a tad hefty for the rear hubs compared to a 240 or Hydra as you note, what's wrong with Kings that needs to be 'upgraded'? Damn near bomb proof, folks like Greg Minaar and team seem to be doing just fine with them, not sure any upgrade is needed. Slightly different tech, but excellent hubs. I have a set on a DJ bike now that have been on 5 or so bikes, over 10 years old, barely any maintenance at all and still going strong.
  • 10 1
 Maybe CK just did it right the first time... After 5 years of steady riding on my King hubs, its hard to find fault in their design anywhere. I also still prefer the sound of king hubs over anything else on the market. I'd be happy to try the Hydras- I'm just not convinced they're a better product for all users. If I was looking for louder hubs, or even faster engagement, they would be my top choice.
  • 19 1
 Funny how we complain about all the new standards, yet you want CK to update for the hell of it. Maybe the other guys are catching up.
  • 3 1
 CK did do a recent refresh of their hubs. They lost out a bit on weight, but I'd think if you want to own something for a long, long time, they're still a solid option.
  • 6 1
 While I am no King fan, as their prices are ridiculous (both new and insane for service parts) and they require multiple, expensive proprietary tools to service, what needs upgrading? They have quick engagement (72 point) and are extremely reliable. While I don't care much for them because of the above issues, if you live in a wet climate (Pacific Northwest) and ride year round, there is really no better choice as their sealing is best there is.
  • 2 5
 I don't know how y'all get so much durability out of King hubs. I've never seen one last more than a few months without blowing up or needing a full rebuild and King's customer support is crap. Everyone I know, myself included, that owned King hubs like ten years ago has moved on to i9 or DT because they're lighter and more durable.
  • 1 1
 @GSPChilliwack: CK update is now all their hubs are centrelock only - no more ISO available?
  • 1 0
 No more ISO, centerlock only. interesting choice.
  • 4 1
 @PAmtbiker: you're one of the very rare few I've heard of with issues with King hubs. I've been mountain biking since the early '90s (BMX since the 80s), cross country, dirt jumpers, enduro & downhill. Consider myself a decent rider, Semi-Pro and cat 1 for years. Zero issue out of any Kings have I ever owned. My aforementioned 10-year-old set that used to be on a trail bike is now on a dirt jumper and I've only did basic service on it twice.
  • 3 1
 I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure what Kings selling point is anymore.
Take a rear hub for example, a Hope 4 is $200 cheaper, an I9 Hydra is 100g lighter with 2x the engagement (though same price) and a DT 350 is 100g lighter and $200 cheaper (approximate prices and weights from Wheelbuilder).
Is Chris King durability still that much better than DT Swiss, Hope or Industry 9? I'm pretty famous for destroying bike parts, but have never had issues with Hope or DT Swiss hubs (haven't tried I9s but I've heard nothing but great things).
While I lusted over them in the past, It just feels like Chris Kings are a little lacking compared to their competitors these days, when everyone else is innovating around price, engagement, weight etc.
  • 2 0
 @ratedgg13: Bling factor, colors, and incredible sealing in wet climates. I am in the DT Swiss 350 camp, of they are by far the best value, just not shiny.
  • 4 1
 @ratedgg13: And Chris King is a Certified B Corp. Happy to pay more for the environment.
  • 2 1
 @carym: When I bought my wheels from a very well know wheel builder, I mentioned I have two creek crossing on my everyday trails- he said King no question for the sealing.
  • 1 1
 Glad to see they are going 36t as stock now instead of 18t. I bailed on a couple wheelsets because they came with the 18t and the upgrade was too expensive to make it worth it, ended up getting a different wheelset with i9's. If they would have done this a long time ago I'd be on DT Swiss, 20deg engagement as standard is a joke.
  • 1 0
 Unfortunately, It sounds like the LN upgrade kit won’t be available until 2022.

See the comment from the DT Swiss account on their official YouTube video here:

youtu.be/1an0-kjaJYY
  • 2 0
 absolutely delighted to have just taken delivery of a new pair of wheels with the old version of the hub..... aaarrgghhhh ffffuuuuu**********!!
  • 1 0
 Hubs are something that I've never had to replace either. Assuming they're well maintained and don't end up with pitted races, they should last indefinitely. I have 350's on my Optic and so far, so good.
  • 2 0
 Hub weights would have been a nice addition to the story. Lighter?
  • 1 0
 about 10 g for the rear
  • 1 0
 according to bikerumour 137g front & 243g rear for J bend spokes. which is exceptionally similar weights to ye olde reliable 240 hubs.
  • 2 3
 It might be because they don't use Pawls but for there poe DT hubs seem to engage faster then most. I went back and forth between 54dt and a 108 pawl hub and didnt really notice the difference.
  • 1 0
 It must be harder to tell on those ridiculously high engagement ratchets - I just upped my old model 240s from 18 to 36T and it's very noticeable indeed. Still quiet as a mouse, not that I mind.
  • 3 1
 I9 or confusing upgrades?
  • 1 3
 The bearings in these 350's going to last longer than the 132.5km my 2021 XM1700 rear wheel did ......and my local shop told me I wouldn't get warranty? I am so disappointed I haven't even bothered putting the wheel back on my bike after having to pay for a new drive side bearing which now that in the hub still feels like junk. Lucky I have my original Shimano XT hub, mangled rim and flogged out aggressor to fall back on when $1000 on a set of wheels is wasted. At this point literally the worst MTB purchase I have made in years.
  • 1 0
 Would be curious to hear what DT would have to say about this problem.
  • 3 1
 They upgraded the price too.
  • 2 0
 I've always had great reliability from the Ratchet System
  • 2 5
 Never ridden a 350 but all of my 240s have lasted a couple weeks before the main bearings got rough and would barely turn by hand. This happened on two pairs of older XMC1200s and on the newer wider rim versions too.
I would change the bearings and ultimately rode the 1200s into the ground. Can't complain about a 1400g wheelset failing after 2 years of relentless racing and thrashing - even though the way the rim failed was not my fault - it was cracked along the spoke bed and nipple heads, no impact damage.
I know the spline flanges are tiny and there is not an awful lot of space for the bearings. But it's still annoying and embarassing to acknowledge that my $2k wheelset eats its bearings faster than the cheapest Formula or Novatec hub, let alone Shimano.
  • 2 2
 adjust your shit or fix your riding style. majority of people report bullet proof operation and here you are frying them. Sounds like a you problem. I have not even destroyed a 3 pawl hub because i take care of it. oil. easy on engagement. you sound like my buddy who ran a loose chain on his bmx and went through 4 chains in a season and claimed chains are manufactured so weak!?!? oem chain on my bike, no issues. proper tension and oil.
  • 2 2
 Step 1: find a broken DT 180 on PinkCraigsBay.

Step 2: have friends who own a bike shop.
  • 3 3
 Me: Please offer your hubs with 36 teeth standard.
DT Swiss: Denied, that will be an extra 100 bucks.
  • 1 0
 ratchet, hehe, say it ten times fast and you end up saying ratshit...
  • 3 4
 Just skip these and get Hope Pro 4 hubs. Bullet proof hubs and look way better.
  • 6 7
 I nine.
  • 20 4
 I-9s are really good, but DTs have notably less drag. Unless you’re shelling out $400 for a rear hub (then get an Onyx) the 350 is the best hub going.
  • 4 8
flag JohanG (Apr 12, 2021 at 12:53) (Below Threshold)
 @wyorider: Onyx vespers are quieter but White Ind and DT 18t have less freehub drag. White Ind has about half the drag of Onyx. Source: I own two sets of each of these three models.
  • 2 0
 @JohanG: I thought the Onyx hubs have zero drive-related drag due to the spragg clutch, has this not been the case for you? In theory, they should have way less draft than DT's - are you able to expand on this?
  • 10 0
 @JohanG: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0904/4132/files/Duke-Study-on-Onyx-DTswiss-chrisking-profile-hubs-drag.jpg?17303554220109028680
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