The Django has its roots in an entirely different bike—the Troy, which began its life as Devinci’s mid-travel trail bike and quickly morphed into an all-mountain brawler. The Django became Devinci’s jack of all trades, trail machine, debuting first as a nimble like 27.5-wheeled beast. The moment the Django 27.5 hit the streets, however, people began asking: Why wasn’t Devinci releasing a 29er Django instead? This bike is Devinci’s answer. Same travel as its 27.5 sibling. Same mission statement. Bigger hoops.
Django 29 X01 Eagle Details• Intended use: trail
• Travel: 130-mm front and 120-mm rear
• 29" wheels
• 67.5 - 68.5° adjustable head angle
• 12 x 148-mm rear spacing
• BB92 press-fit bottom bracket
• Split Pivot Suspension System
• 12.51 kilograms/27.6 pounds
• Sizes: S, M, L (tested), XL
• MSRP: $6819 USD/$7699 CAD/€7239 EUR
•
www.devinci.com / @devinci
Devinci offers six different Django 29er models—four carbon-framed and two aluminum-framed bikes. This top-tier X01 Eagle version was released first, which is why we snagged it. Equipped with a "latest and greatest" sorta kit, it sells for $6,819 USD. Before you start seeing red because of that price tag, take note: complete carbon Django 29ers start at $3,809 (the SRAM NX-equipped version) and the base-level, aluminum Django 29 NX retails for $3,099. Devinci also offers carbon ($2,479) and aluminum ($1,769) frame-only options.Frame DetailsDevinci has always made a point of touting its Made-in-Canada aluminum frames. The carbon Django, like just about every other composite, full-suspension bike under the sun, is made overseas, in Asia. Unlike most other carbon frames, however, the Django carbon frames are backed with a lifetime warranty, as opposed to the more common three and five-year, carbon-frame warranties. It's a vote of confidence.
The Django 29 is equipped with a BB92 press-fit bottom bracket. In a subtle nod to the Django's capabilities, you'll find ISCG-05 tabs on that BB shell, which means running a minimalist, taco-style bash guard or chainguide is fair game. You might argue that a trail bike like this doesn't demand such accoutrements. I'd beg to differ--particularly in the Django's case. It's always nice, however, to be given the flexibility to go your own way with a frame.
What this bike
doesn't have is a front derailleur mount. This is a dedicated 1x frame, so if you want to run multiple chainrings, you're out of luck here. I don't think front derailleurs are necessary any more, given not only the advent of SRAM Eagle (admittedly, still cost prohibitive for many of us), but also a variety of less-pricey, extended-range, single-ring options. I know a lot of readers disagree with me on that point. To each their own. Either way, consider yourself warned about the Django's "one-by-only" dating status. Oh, and finally, it's a Boost 148 party out back on this bike.
Suspension Design
Devinci wrangles 120 millimeters (4.7 inches) of rear suspension out of Dave Weagle’s Split Pivot design—a suspension design Devinci has been equipping their bikes with for about five years now. In a nutshell, Split Pivot features a rear-axle, concentric pivot that (in conjunction with the rocker and other frame members) is supposed to allow for unrestricted rear suspension, even when you are on the brakes. Smoother suspension equals better traction equals better control. There are a raft of other touted benefits, including great pedaling efficiency, excellent small-bump compliance and so forth. Again, the same things that basically every design aims to achieve.
As with Weagle’s better-known DW-Link design, Split Pivot is licensed for use on a variety of brands' bikes and is tuned to achieve different ride qualities each time around. Rear suspension duties on this top-shelf Django are handled by a Fox Float Factory Series shock.
GeometryThe Django features adjustable geometry. Rotating the linkage bolt that ties the seatstay and rocker together lets you either steepen (Hi) or slacken (Lo) the geometry. In Hi mode, you’re looking at a 68.5-degree head angle. In Lo, it’s 68 degrees. You can slacken it further to 67.5 by swapping out the stock lower headset cup for an extra tall (about 10 millimeters) cup. Naturally, as you slacken the head angle you are also altering the bike's seat angle, bottom bracket height and (to a lesser extent) its reach, chainstay length and wheelbase. The geo chart (below) dives into the nerdiness of it all.
As for where the Django falls—geometry and personality-wise—in the bike world, I’d classify it as swimming in the same general end of the gene pool as Santa Cruz’s latest Tallboy, Ibis’ Ripley LS and, most closely of all, Pivot’s Mach 429 Trail. If the name dropping means nothing to you, all of these are bikes that would have been safely called “aggressive” trail bikes just a couple years ago. These days the meat of the bell curve is moving their direction, so I guess we can just go back to calling them trail bikes again…
Specifications
Specifications
|
Release Date
|
2017 |
|
Price
|
$6819 |
|
Travel |
130 front 120 rear |
|
Rear Shock |
FOX FLOAT FACTORY SERIES, 7.25X1.75 |
|
Fork |
FOX FLOAT 34 FACTORY 29 BOOST 110 130MM |
|
Headset |
FSA ORBIT 1.5 ZERO STACK |
|
Cassette |
SRAM X01 EAGLE 12S |
|
Crankarms |
SRAM X01 EAGLE 34T BOOST 148 |
|
Bottom Bracket |
SRAM BB92 |
|
Rear Derailleur |
SRAM X01 EAGLE 12S |
|
Chain |
SRAM X01 EAGLE 12S |
|
Shifter Pods |
SRAM X01 EAGLE 12S |
|
Handlebar |
RACE FACE SIXC 20MM RISE 35MM 800MM |
|
Stem |
RACE FACE TURBINE 35MM |
|
Grips |
DEVINCI |
|
Brakes |
SRAM LEVEL TLM |
|
Wheelset |
RACEFACE TURRBINE R30 29 |
|
Tires |
MAXXIS HIGH ROLLER II 2.3 (f) ARDENT 2.25 (r) |
|
Seat |
SDG FLY MTN |
|
Seatpost |
ROCK SHOX REVERB STEALTH 125MM 31.6MM |
|
| |
Set-UpI ran the Fox Factory fork and rear shock at 25 percent sag, which is my go-to on trail bikes. At times (admittedly this sometimes being due to sloth as much as curiosity) I opted to increase sag to 30 percent in the rear shock and, given the bike's progressive rear suspension traits, you can get away with that, though I wound up returning to 25 percent as optimal. The rear suspension felt more predictable at 25 percent. I also like to climb with the suspension run wide open whenever possible, and at 30 percent sag I was flipping the compression damper on the rear shock. Not because the bike was bobbing excessively, but because I like to sit higher in the bike's travel when I climb. I never felt the need to add volume spacers--there's enough ramp up in the stock configuration.
ClimbingRocket. Friggin. Ship. This bike rips on climbs. Can I just stop there? No? Okay, then. The fact that this blinged-out version of the Django 29 only weighs 12.5 kilos (27.6 pounds) certainly helps it on the ascents, but it actually climbs as if it was even lighter than that. Pedaling efficiency is very, very good even when the shock is run wide open, yet the rear wheel tracks smoothly over rooty and chunky sections of climbs. The traction is outstanding. Even on days when you feel like crap, you wind up standing out of the saddle on this thing and getting all stupidly heroic. Naturally, the Django 29 isn't going to imbue you with any superhuman climbing powers, but until your lungs give out, it has a way of tricking you into thinking it has.
DescendingDevinci has always offered a wide range of bikes, but the company has made its most public impact as a more gravity-oriented outfit. Even when the company is churning out lightweight trail bikes like this one, there's no mistaking where their passion lies: It's in the descents. To that end, the Django is a hoot on the downhills. The bike has a lively, poppy feel to it. As I hinted at earlier, there's plenty of progression tuned into the rear suspension. How much of that is kinematics and how much of that is shock tune is unclear to me, but I can say that the bike gives you an always-ready platform to boost a little air and harsh bottoming was a very rare thing. You still wind up using all of the bike's travel--It's not a ridiculously steep ramp up--but the Django is also not offering up as supple a feeling suspension as some more relaxed riders might like. This is a bike that performs best when ridden hard and fast. Again, it's something that harkens back to the company's general vibe.
That said, the Django is not quite as forgiving of passive piloting as some other models in its class. You do need to pay attention to your line choice. Swapping back and forth between the Django and the Evil Following (a bike I own) gave me daily reminders that this is a very capable trail bike, but it's also one that requires both aggression
and diligence at the controls to wring the most out of its potential. On days when I wasn't feeling alpha male on the descents, the Django frequently reminded me that I needed to sack up and get on with it.
On paper, the relatively long wheelbase (for a trail bike) suggests this thing might be a handful in tight singletrack. It isn't. I am completely at a loss as to why that's true, but the bike has an agility that belies its geometry chart.
I consistently ran the Django 29 in its Lo setting and initially considered swapping out the stock lower headset cup for the taller one. Knocking a half degree of the head angle would help. The one thing, however, that I was already
not in love with about the Django was its generous stack height. The Django's head tube is already fairly long. At 115 millimeters on a size Large, for comparison's sake, it's 15 millimeters longer than that of a Large Tallboy and 13 millimeters taller than that of a Large Ripley LS. To compensate, I eventually resorted to slamming the stem and running an unsightly stack of headset spacers on top. My goal was to try and get my hands in a less T-Rex-esque position. Adding another 10 millimeters to the situation (the height of that tall lower headset cup) would take things in the exact wrong direction. This, however, is my only real gripe with the bike.
Component Check• SRAM X01 Eagle Drivetrain: The same precision as the original X01 single-ring group, but with a lot more gear range. I've long been one of the people who felt that if I was struggling with a 42-tooth granny gear, the problem was mine, rather than the drivetrains. That's actually probably still true (Beer, you are my lover....and enemy). However, spending a good bit of time with Eagle made me realize that, screw it, sometimes a 50-tooth is a very good thing. Besides, you can always increase your chainring size to some ultra-manly dimension if the thought of super-low gearing rankles you. If that sounds like you, a 34-tooth chainring is about as big as you're likely to run on the Django 29. There's not a ton of space between the stock 34-tooth Eagle chainring and the drive-side chainstay.
• SDG Fly MTN Saddle: The ass killer. This saddle hurt me. Many times. On the off chance that it could just be the particular shape of my particular shape, I swapped the bike with friends during rides. Total consensus: the SDG is not a friendly perch. For the record, none of the people rubbing their asses post-ride were of the husky, plus-size shape. I don't make a habit of checking my buddies' backsides, but I think everyone involved is fairly fit. Now this is just getting weird.... Anyway, the saddle is well-built, but the shape is an affront to my taint. You may like it more than I did.
• Race Face SIXC bars/Turbine 35 stem: When you pay this much for a bike, you expect some cachet from the cockpit bits. Devinci delivered here with the Race Face SIXC carbon bars and Turbine 35 stem. The 800-mm bar width and 50-mm stem mesh well with the bike's geometry and reason for living.
Pinkbike's Take: | The original Django 27.5 was a quick-footed, little whip. The Django 29 brings the benefits of big wheels--the improved roll over and ability to maintain momentum in chunky terrain--but maintains the fun. If you're looking for the slackest, most DH-oriented trail bike on the planet, there are better choices. That's not a dig against the Django 29, however. This is a bike that rides best when ridden hard, but also strikes a more even balance between descending capability and climbing prowess. - Vernon Felton |
Visit this gallery for more images from this review
About the ReviewerStats: Age: 44 • Height: 5'11” • Inseam: 32" • Weight: 175lb • Industry affiliations / sponsors: None In 1988 Vernon started riding mountain bikes—mainly to avoid the people throwing cans of Budweiser at him during his road rides. At some point, roughly when Ronald Reagan was president and Hüsker Dü was still a band, he began loving mountain bikes on their own terms. Vernon Felton spends most of his time riding bikes, thinking about bikes, thinking about riding bikes and then riding some more around Bellingham, Washington. If it has a greasy chain and two wheels on it, he’s cool with it. Except for recumbents. Well, okay, maybe those too. Nah, forget it. No recumbents.
*EDIT* So apparently this joke is as old as the bike itself. Never mind me.
I was in Bellingham with a buddy and we ran into Matt Slaven , he was showing a shop the new Django,s and had both his bike,s there , 1 29" with a 150mm 36 and a 27.5" with a 150mm 36 up front .
I wonder if one can swap in a longer stroke shock like people have been doing on the SC High Towers and couple other bikes and gain 10mm more rear travel .
EDIT note , I just noticed the image states a 140mm 36 , That,s a typo on my part ,they where both 150mm and felt well balanced on the quick spin I did on the bike .
maybe actually see it climb like a XC bike and decend like a DH...
You mean this? Have you got some backstory?
Not too far off from what happened with the ambatt situation either so I don't think I'm into tinfoil hat theory here.
Can we stop pretending that "lifetime" means what marketers try to make us think it means? At least if a company puts a specific number of years on their frame warranty, I know what the coverage is. "Lifetime warranty" has just too much wiggle room for me to think it's anything but smoke and mirrors. There's only one warranty in the business with balls, and that is (unbelievably), Motobecane, who warranty their titanium frames for 100 years. Not joking. A century of warranty coverage.
This is not a hack specifically at Devinci. I'm impressed by the low cost of the carbon frame relative to other bike makers and that looks like a nice bike. Wish it had a different name.
I think it's ridiculous, 100 years is too short- I want my frames warrantied for 200 years.
Please, Google around a little if that it what you think! "Lifetime" means product lifetime, and it's an arbitrary decision the company makes at the time of your warranty claim.
Yes I am. "Lifetime" is not your lifetime. It's product lifetime, which is arbitrary. Only Motobecane (this still blows my mind) actually has a true lifetime warranty, assuming you don't get a bike at birth and live past 100.
The real question is how companies treat problems. There's the company who's attitude is "if it broke when it shouldn't, we've got your back" and then there's the company that disappears the moment you hand them your money. Unfortunately you can't find that information on any company website or in any manuals.
With that being said, a lot of shops these days keep a sales history on file, and they will be happy to provide another copy if the original is lost.
BMW's manual says:
BMW diesel's particle filter service interval: lifetime.
If the filter fail, it means that it has reached the end of its life.
Need to be replaced...
Ha!
Most companies word it that way so if someone takes a 20 year old bike that wasn't meant for jumps, to a bike park, and it snaps and they try to claim warranty, they can say it has fatigued to the point where it won't hold up to the abuse that it was subjected to(and not meant for). I understand this is only one example but I'm sure you get the idea. They don't want everyone taking advantage of it and snapping frames all the time to get new ones.
At the end of the day, whichever bike brand you buy, most of them would rather eat the cost of the frame and potentially make you a lifetime customer than nickel and dime someone on a frame replacement. I used to sell Specialized and they we're fantastic for warranties. I saw some bikes from the 90's be warrantied and they had no problem. The only issue some companies may have is if it's a discontinued model and they don't have a suitable replacement. Which then they usually offer a wicked deal on a new bike.
Regardless, you're being a little melodramatic over something fairly minuscule.
Motobecane USA Warranty
This warranty is void in its entirety by any physical/cosmetic alteration of the frame, paint, decals, components or any signs of bending/denting thereof. Bent or dented components, frame or fork would indicate abuse beyond the design of the bicycle.
Get a dent in the frame- no warranty, take decals off- no warranty.
Yup sounds like left a ton of loops holes in it- but keep holding it up as some model of a great warranty.
That's rude. You should read this: www.pinkbike.com/news/lets-not-be-a-holes-opinion-2017.html
1. Excessive use. Yup! Ride your bike too much and you void your warranty.
2. You use a different seat than the one it came with. Too bad if your butt doesn't fit the stock saddle, I guess?
3. If you use frame protector to protect your frame and it damages the paint: no warranty. Even though you were protecting the frame in the first place?
I won't keep going, but you can look here www.devinci.com/registration/index3.html
My point is, all the companies have statements like Motobecane in their warranties, but only Motobecane will dare to say their warranty is good for 100 years. I don't ride any Motobecane bikes, by the way, but I am impressed nonetheless.
It's simply saying you're exaggerating this topic and it's something, in this industry, that isn't a big deal. Your opinion differs from mine and I felt that you defending your opinion was melodramatic. If you choose to play the sensitive card, so be it.
Insinuating that i'm an a*shole, is rude. However, I'm not in this to start an argument. I have experience in the bike business and felt that it would be useful to others to see that not all bike brands try to trick you with words, with how you were implying they were.
I'm sure there are companies out there that will stick to their guns and refuse warranty. So in a sense, I'm agreeing with you, but adding my own two cents along the way.
Ball busting aside, I do appreciate your comments and I am pleased that you give enough of a crap about the topic to go back and forth on it. But, I disagree with you that warranties, and how they are represented, are not a big deal. I don't have to go very far in my circle of riding friends to find someone with a story about less-than-stellar service (that includes me, as it happens, and I have had both great and terrible warranty experiences). As I pointed out in my first post, I have no problem with DeVinci per se. Rather, I am objecting to the language of the warranty marketing, and that fact that mention of the lifetime warranty even appeared in Vernon's review of the the bike. That is, a lifetime warranty is something real or it isn't, and I'm trying to make a bigger point about truth in advertising.
Maybe Pinkbike can create a safe posting area for you.
Most of us sell the bike 2 or 3 years later...deathtime
I did some research after speaking with @TEMPLE and only one of the brands that states lifetime warranty said the life time of the bike. I believe it was YT Industries.
Actually, most of the online only bicycle brands had less than 5 years on all their bikes. Most of the major bike brands had actual lifetime warranty. Some of the brands only gave you lifetime warranty if you registered the bike within 90 days on their website.
@TEMPLE : Fair enough, I probably didn't have to add the last part that I did. I'm sorry for that. I've heard a lot of warranty horror stories as well. I find that most of them are because of the shop and not the brand. At least where I am, most shops give off a "I'm better than you" vibe and aren't very personable.
Sometimes the shop isn't well versed in dealing with warranties and that's unacceptable. I actually find warranties to be fun and don't avoid doing them.
Just to note i use the shimano BB92 that has plastic casing creating a more forgiving fit with the frame, i believe this helps and is maybe why I've had no issues.
I do think threaded is a bit nicer though (nice to not need a press to get them in straight) but i understand why frame manufacturers choose PF especially on carbon bikes, makes manufacture simpler (keeping cost down) and allows for a wider and stiffer BB area giving more design options.
Because in the end, there are a ton of good bikes out there, but they all have their niches. Example - I'm 6'1", but have short legs and a long torso. My XL Process 111, despite having added travel in the front, won't wander on the uphills for me, because my build puts me further forward and there's enough weight on the front wheel to keep things steady. A friend of mine is 6'1", but for him it's all in the legs, and he can't climb for shit on my bike while seated - the front end is all over the place.
There are now, what, a couple dozen 29ers with between 110 and 135 mm of rear travel. Over half of those are available in stores right here in Bellingham. But demoing them all would take a fair amount of time and money (since you only get the demo money back for a bike you actually buy). That's where reviews come in. And you guys are on the right track - there's a lot more useful stuff in these reviews than there used to be. You guys are calling BS where appropriate, and you highlight the stuff that truly sets bikes apart. But there's another step or two you can take here that would make for really useful advice.
TL-DR - nice job, now go a bit further.
So let's say you're looking for a 29er trailbike that's a bit more playful rather than super stable/forgiving. Great - this review gives you the idea that the Django might fit that bill. But you still don't know whether that will work for you unless you happen to fit 5'11" with a 32" inseam and weighing in at 175#. There are some comments about the tall stack up front - so that's something you can use to figure out a thing or two - but to really know whether you should even consider this bike, a little more info would be helpful.
Yes, you could deduce most of that from geometry charts if you are a super experienced rider who's done a fair amount of thinking about these sorts of things. But those aren't the people that these reviews are written for, as they have a very good idea of exactly what they want/need already. It's the rest of us, who might have some notions, but are really not sure. And even then - geometry tells you only so much. Example - Vernon states that the Django rides differently than he (someone who's spent a fair bit of effort sorting out what geometry means for how a bike rices) would have expected. That's great - but why not go into 'this bike will work great for people of such and such build, but will probably cause issues for people with such and such different build/size/weight' and really push the envelope on how useful these reviews can be?
Makes me wonder if the the latest trends in geo have made you/us change our technique enough so that a "long" bike no longer feels cumbersome.
@atrokz: That's awesome...yes that's exactly what I was referring to when I said "ALOT". You need one more Alot in order to buy a centimeter of travel.
Also i'd like to point out that a lower headset cup is like $8-$15.
Yes, the headset cup is cheaper - and if you're stuck with a fork that doesn't allow a travel adjustment in the same sort of easy fashion as the Pike (my wife's Sektor, for example, won't let you do that), then yes, that's probably a pretty nifty way of giving yourself a slightly slacker bike, get your BB and pedals up a little higher, and gain more confidence on the descents. But if you're in the lucky position to already have a fork that can accommodate it, the cost/hassle difference isn't that big.
As for average shop, average rider - I'm very much an average rider. I seek out good service, so I would agree that this is not an average shop (and the competitive landscape in my little slice of MTB heaven sure helps). To me, this is the sort of stuff that the direct sales guys have to figure out - sure, if you are in a one LBS town and they're not great for service, you're probably just as well off buying your bike direct. But there is real value to be provided to average riders with above average service. Perhaps that's the future - independent shops that don't even bother selling bikes, but are all about the service. We have a young couple here in town who have a box truck they've built out as a shop. They park it where riders will run into them (right at the trailheads during the day, next to the major breweries during the evening), they'll bend over backwards to fit in quick repairs, and they try to figure out how to make riders happy by not just fixing the thing they know about, but figuring out how they could add some value to their ride with a few simple tweaks or setup changes. For the average rider, that sort of thing is gold, and well worth the shop charge.
And that's all I was saying. So we agree.
One thing to remember - you are not "average", you are a lucky one. I have been riding for 18 years and I had never experienced what you consider to be completely normal, every day life until I went to visit my brother in Bend, OR this past summer. There are 28 bike shops in his little town of 81000 people, and pretty much every one of them is excellent. My little town of 87000 has 4 "bike shops", and only two of them can do anything more than assemble a $300 road bike and sell it to you. I just recently had to travel 40 mins to get a set of carbon wheels tensioned...and they managed to round off seven nipples in the process. That's one of the "good" shops. The others have never even touched a carbon wheelset. Anyway, this is what the vast majority of the world considers "average".
Again, a headset cup is alot easier and cheaper than a fork travel change. That's it. That's all i'm sayin.
Also with the forks yes you're right there's alot of forks that can't be adjusted but in this all rounder sector Pikes dominate, most stock bikes seem to come with pikes or 34s, who's going to use domains or sids on a django, so yes unfortunately some people wont be able to easily adjust the travel but there's probably more who can so its a good option.
You have to keep in mind my original point - a headset cup is alot cheaper than a travel change. That's ALL I said. I didn't say it was better, I didn't say it was easier, I didn't say I would do it. Somehow this blew up into an argument over how many forks can have their travel easily changed. It doesn't matter. Unless you have a travel adjustable fork (like Dual position or TALAS), you are not going to change your a2c for less money than a headset cup.
Can we move on from this now?
On another note I'm glad Devinci went with a taller head tube rather then having a flexy front with low stack. I demo'd a Yeti 5.5C and the front end felt like the front end was going to tear off on g-outs.
Cause @clapforcanadaa likes rough butt stuff.....
Different strokes for different folks when it comes to saddles! Fly MTN isn't my personal go to, but the Circuit MTN is my jam.
Comparison to the mentioned bikes in the class. Particularly the pivot which he alluded to being the most similar. Better worse how?
If that figure is correct (Pinkbike NEVER shows a claimed weight on a photo and the 27.6 is probably a happy 28 and change) this is what $7,000 buys you today: a porky bike.
It is not a DeVinci problem, thanks to "bigger is better" every single component on a bike got heavier in the last 10 years. Including 1x that now weighs within grams of a dual, and costs 3 times as much, thanks to the silly 50 cog and long cage derailleur ...
Or are you just ignoring them to take a swipe at eagle for some reason? As otherwise your argument isn't particularly valid.
Raven, are you nuts? (I also had an '04 Enduro)
How can you compare against the newer versions that don't even resemble the old. More travel, more capable, generally larger wheels and burlier tires, wider bars. Apples to apples, if they were specced the same it would come down to the frame.
Also, that's impressive you got your old Enduro down to 25.5. That frame was burly AF.
My 1st and 2nd FS bikes weighed about 32.5 and 31.5 in 1999 and 2003 respectively, and had 4-5 inches of travel. My current FS bike weighed about 31 and change when I bought her, has more travel than those early rigs, and is infinitely better at both climbing and descending, not to mention with larger wheels and proper AM rubber and 4 piston brakes with larger rotors.
But pushing is Enduro-approved, get with the times.
But seriously, match a 46 rear (like my new xt cassette) with like a 30 up front (I'm going with 32 tho) and you're golden, right? The range is there! Convert ye retro grouches, convert!
The reality is that the ONLY improvement to bike handling is due to a change in a few degrees of head angle (call it 68.5, the HA of my Mojo C, to 66.8, the HA of my HD3) and shorter stems and wider bars. Everything else is just smoke: bikes 10 years ago where as capable as they are today, but lighter, first and foremost because of the 26 wheels, then a number of components that got heavier and heavier ... including 1x that used to save a good chunk in respect to 2x, and now it is 150 grams at most ...