Devinci Wilson Carbon - First Ride
There's no escaping the fact that a downhill bike's desirability rests heavily upon the trophy cabinet behind it - a statement which is certainly backed up by the bikes we regularly see in lift queues around the world. Jostled amongst the sea of V10's, Session's, Demo's and Glory's is the Devinci Wilson, a once obscure bike from a brand that until recently, was relatively unheard of outside of its native Canada. But even amongst these icons of DH racing, the Wilson represents a special bike having played an integral role in catapulting both Stevie Smith's career from that of an up-and-coming downhill racer to a World Cup champion, while simultaneously introducing Devinci Cycles to the world. The power of the podium is undeniably hard to ignore in a sport built upon racing, but unlike the other bikes mentioned here, a 27.5" carbon DH bike from this small yet determined brand from Quebec has seemingly been late to the party, until now...
Details:
• Intended use: downhill racing / freeride
• Travel: 200mm front and 204mm rear
• 27.5" wheels
• 63.2° head angle
• 435mm chainstays
• 12 x 150mm rear spacing
• Carbon main frame and seatstay
• Split Pivot Suspension System
• 2.5" Tire clearance
• Internal cable routing
• Integrated fork bumpers
• Carbon skid plate
• Asymmetrical construction
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Weight: 35.08lb/16.04kg size large
PRICES - USD / CAD / GBP:
• Carbon XP: $4659 / $5399 / £3499.99
• Carbon RC: $5959 / $6799 / £4199.99
• Carbon SL: $7759 / $8799 / £5499.99
• Carbon frame: $3359 / $3899 / £2999.99
• Intended use: downhill racing / freeride
• Travel: 200mm front and 204mm rear
• 27.5" wheels
• 63.2° head angle
• 435mm chainstays
• 12 x 150mm rear spacing
• Carbon main frame and seatstay
• Split Pivot Suspension System
• 2.5" Tire clearance
• Internal cable routing
• Integrated fork bumpers
• Carbon skid plate
• Asymmetrical construction
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Weight: 35.08lb/16.04kg size large
PRICES - USD / CAD / GBP:
• Carbon XP: $4659 / $5399 / £3499.99
• Carbon RC: $5959 / $6799 / £4199.99
• Carbon SL: $7759 / $8799 / £5499.99
• Carbon frame: $3359 / $3899 / £2999.99
Is this the best looking Wilson to date? It certainly carries an air of purpose as far as the looks go and the production colours for the SL are especially nice too - check it out in the gallery.
Plastic Fantastic
So why does manufacturing frames with carbon fiber really matter, after all, there has been a good helping of accomplished alloy DH bikes out there skirting around the more than reasonable 36-37lb weight mark - including the alloy Wilson - for some time now and at a fraction of the price. And with the increased consistency in alloy tube manufacturing, not to mention the advantages posed by hydroforming and the extra expense associated with carbon, do we really need to embrace carbon for DH frame production? Using carbon does however allow for a heightened degree of finite innovation over alloy, at least as far as shape and ride feel go, two elements which can really make the difference for an elite rider pushing the limits, but equally easy to get wrong for the average rider who will never stare down the smoking barrel of a World Cup DH track.
Being unrestricted by the confines of tubes and multiple welds, bike designers can really go to town with designing frames that are made in a mould - the Wilson's asymmetrical design in all of its curvy beauty.
After a brief hiatus from the carbon DH bike scene and with the 26" carbon Wilson still firmly in our cerebral cortex, it was only a matter of time before Devinci released an updated 27.5" offering, manufactured using this wonder material. And here it is, Devinci's latest gravity machine, taking the geometry and overall silhouette directly from the alloy Wilson, which coincidentally already has a carbon seatstay. The only really new element here is a fully carbon main frame.
Split Pivot
As with the rest of Devinci's full-suspension range, the Wilson utilises the 'Split Pivot' system. This is essentially a single pivot design with a linkage driven shock, intended to deliver the best attributes of both a single pivot and a linkage design in one. Providing both increased grip under braking forces thanks to the concentric dropout pivot, while also delivering increased acceleration due to the heightened degree of anti-squat (the suspension stiffens up as you put the power down), the Wilson bares all the hallmarks of a bike with a racing pedigree.
Yet the Wilson's Split Pivot layout looks quite unlike that of any other, utilising an additional component in the shape of the 'control link' - a CNC machined link which concentrically floats around the BB and connects the shock to the swingarm. Designed to add an additional element of adjustment for the engineers with regards to the Wilson's overall kinematics, it also delivers an additional amount of appropriate stiffness between the swingarm and the main frame.
Options
With three complete builds on offer, ranging from the top-flight SL model sporting a full SRAM X01 7-Speed drivetrain, BoXXer World Cup fork and Easton's all-singing and all-dancing Havoc DH wheel set, Schwalbe's go-to DH rubber; the Magic Mary and an aptly Canadian cockpit in the shape of Chromag's carbon 35mm BZA bar and stem combo. The next one down is the RC, suitably packed with a 10-Speed SRAM X9 and Shimano mix drivetrain, BoXXer Team forks, DT Swiss wheels, Maxxis High Roller tyres and a Truvativ cockpit. Last, but not least is the XP, dishing out a SRAM X7 drivetrain and a BoXXer RC fork. A frameset is also available and the addition of an XL size is a welcome sight as well. We had the pleasure of spending a bit of time on the top end SL model and duly headed to some local DH tracks to see how it fared...
The carbon bash guard on the down tube is far from the prettiest out there, but it means business.
The integrated fork bumpers which double up as cable guides are a nice touch.
Getting to Grips with the Wilson Carbon
Opting for a size large, conceding that the XL would be a step too far, I really was expecting something a little more modern in the size department, especially for what is essentially a 2017 bike. At a less than gigantic 5'9" I felt cramped with the 436mm of reach on offer and rather devoid of the space I'm used to. With an increasing number of AM bikes skirting around the 460mm number for a similarly sized bike, not to mention the rising tide of new DH bikes thankfully following suit, I can't help but think that Devinci missed a crucial opportunity here with regards to sizing and dynamic ergonomics. It is nice however to see a continuous standover height across the size range, but similarly disappointing to see the same with regards to stack height, forcing taller riders to increase the number of spacers under their top crown or stem to achieve the correct stack height for their 'rangey' dimensions, which ultimately robs them of crucial mm's in the reach department. The rest of the geometry is however pretty much on point and like all things, sizing is hugely subjective and preferential.
The Wilson's low centre of gravity made itself abundantly clear inspiring confidence in steep corners.
With the SL model sporting a wish list of parts, it made focusing on the Wilson Carbon's ride characteristics in the short space of time available that much easier. That said, the addition of the SRAM Guide Ultimate brakes was a welcome sight - easily one of the best brakes currently on the market right now. And the superbly predictable and highly versatile Schwalbe Magic Mary's - a tyre that no less helped Stevie Smith to win his first World Cup in Hafjell, Norway in 2012 - were also another note worthy addition. After setting up the suspension with the appropriate sag, retaining the 3 tokens in the RockShox BoXXer World Cup forks, a 400lb spring in the Vivid shock and cutting the 800mm wide bars down to a more favourable (for me) 780mm, we headed out to see how the Carbon Wilson would perform. It's a fast bike, there's no denying that, but what's equally as apparent, if not more so, is the stiffness. The noticeable tide of feedback resonating through the frame over small, successive hits was apparent from the offset and quite possibly amplified by the suitably stiff 35mm carbon bars. While an exceptionally stiff chassis like this will benefit a rider with surgical like precision and the ability to hit all their lines time after time and with pin-point accuracy, most of us simply don't have the necessary skills to take advantage of such attributes. The other issue is that of comfort, which over a long and rough track, could be substantially hampered by such a stiff frame.
The Wilson might be a 'wheels on the ground' bike, but it can handle gaps and large impacts with ease...
The lack of reach certainly hampered my ability - at least in the short term - to immediately jump on the new Wilson and feel comfortable.
Opening up the Wilson on faster sections of trail however was an eye opening experience and only reverberated its race caliber. Pushing through and over undulations in the trail and hitting lines with a degree of precision, the Wilson didn't struggle to gain speed and retain it, thankfully lacking the pedal kickback associated with the Split Pivot's ability to generate chain growth under load. Power transfer and acceleration were also suitably on the money - another trait of the Split Pivot system at work. Carrying speed through corners was another highlight, delivering an effective amount of grip and control, which was only boosted further by the ample standover height. Getting the Wilson airborne didn't represent any huge degree of difficulty, although it did require some additional gusto to man handle it in a chosen direction, instead preferring to keep its wheels on the ground and the speed constant.
Pinkbike's Take:
 | Have Devinci added that extra special something to an already proven bike by offering a carbon main frame? It's certainly lighter at over a pound less than its alloy brethren and it's definitely stiffer too, but these attributes firmly put the new Wilson Carbon within the crosshairs of those who want speed over comfort. Like its predecessors, the latest Wilson doesn't hang about when pointed down hill and now with the carbon option, Devinci have a grand total of six DH bikes to choose from. More options for more riders isn't a bad thing, but the ultimate question here will be whether or not you actually need a carbon DH frame over that of a cheaper and nearly identical alloy frame. - Olly Forster |
MENTIONS: @devinci
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p.vitalmtb.com/photos/users/2/photos/61336/s780_SS_n3x1176.jpg?1376270663
Also that mustache and handsome face sure help
TREK SESSION!!!
The session 10, to be exact. Take a look! www.moredirt.com/bikes/34547_2.jpg
Reach; the bike is on par with the normal crop of North American downhill bikes such as the V-10, M16, Aurum, and is a cm shorter than a Demo (albeit with a 15mm shorter stack, so the difference is larger in real life). Seemingly, only the main crop of euro or WC developed (fury/phoenix) bikes with their slightly longer geos is substantially longer - a trend easily mitigated by just jumping up one size. Did you just pick the wrong size Olly seemingly overemphasizing the size name over the actual figures, or did you just not look at the geo numbers before you chose a bike? While i agree that race bikes could benefit from a longer chassis, most riders would prob get along with these numbers just fine. Lastly, the bike is seemingly designed to be ridden with the lowers lowered all the way with the crowns slammed onto the frame, so riding with spacers - as you put it - would effectively steepen the bike making the reach longer at the head tube - though i am uncertain as to if the handlebar would be greatly affected. I am sure you measured right?
Secondly; "thankfully lacking the pedal kickback associated with the Split Pivot's ability to generate chain growth under load." Say what? Since when are single pivots optimized to run with a specific size chain ring prone to develop excessive chain growth? Simply put - they are not.
Thirdly; i'm sure you did, but did you play around with the dampeners to mitigate the feedback from the very rigid chassis? I know getting the base settings correct has been something DW has been pretty conscious of previously, noting that Dev's carbon offerings have been substantially stiffer than their alloy bikes necessitating other comp settings. But it is an interesting point none the least.
Regarding the reach, I would have thought a size large bike for a 5'9" rider would be ample, I'm fairly sure that Devinci did not intend their XL size for riders that short. As for the other bikes you have quoted: The M16C does have the same reach but was also reviewed on here as being a little on the sort size for the large, although by a rider 2" taller. The large V10 does have a shorter reach but it's not their second largest frame (they do an XL and an XXL), the XL has a reach of 446mm, 10mm longer. The trend of bikes getting longer doesn't seem to be slowing and it would make sense to future-proof a carbon bike with the expense of making moulds.
I understand I'm making very opinionated statements, so take it with a grain of salt. I just wouldn't buy this bike based on the reach alone since it's THE most important number in my opinion.
edit - anyway I mean no disrespect toward Bernat. He's cool. I watched his enduro edit I think, but people run all sorts of setups. You could use any professional rider's geometry preferences to prove any point you wanted since there's all types for some reason.
I too was somewhat confused by the "lack of pedal kickback that sp's are prone to comment. Even more so after he had mentioned that the bike had "a heightened degree of anti squat" to help with putting power down.
A) sp's arent particularly prone to pedal feedback compared to any other design
B) the anti squat comment completely contradicts the pedal feedback comment. They cant both be true?!?!
Another point I was somewhat bemused by was when he said this:
"Yet the Wilson's Split Pivot layout looks quite unlike that of any other, utilising an additional component in the shape of the 'control link' - a CNC machined link which concentrically floats around the BB and connects the shock to the swingarm
It's called a rocker, and I think you will find every split pivot under the sun has one....
Whats up with that, pinkbike?
yeah but it's implemented in a very different way on the wilson. Concentric pivots that rotate around both the rear axle and the bb. Some qualities can be difficult to quantify. It sounds like woo and maybe it is, but not all linkages drive the shock shaft equally. Not all linkages rotate around the pivot points with equal efficiency. Some designs are much smoother than others. If a design is smoother rotating, then it will be more reliable and have longer service intervals.
The wilson is really sick. I wish they did the geo better. linkagedesign.blogspot.ca/2015/11/devinci-wilson-275-2016.html
This is an example of a linkage design where there is NO compromise. It is literally flawless. Could be better, but you can't fault it.
Of course the maximum value is at maximum travel! The important question is where the highest rate of increase is. You really don't get this do you. pedal feedback IS anti squat. Where pedal induced anti squat is high, pedal feedback is high.
I am not arguing with you I am informing you, you are the only one who believes you have an argument.
edit - sorry I didn't give you this one in the end. I had a change of heart.
Pedal feedback IS anti-squat. You can not have one without the other, because they are the same thing. Your suspension doesnt magically drop into deep travel/low anti-squat zone just because you are in the rough. It will spend just as much of its time extended almost to top out as the wheel drops into holes, guess what that causes, pedal feedback. A bike either pedals efficiently or has low pedal feedback. Not both.
You almost went full carbon frame, added a light Boxxer but no Air Shox!!??
This website is really informative if you can learn to understand the graphs. 1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvICxL2jPf8/VHO8VBxJcuI/AAAAAAAAU5Q/SvjjTaLC9WU/s1600/Devinci%2BSpartan%2B%5BLow%5D%2B2015_LevRatio.gif
I'm not sure if they changed the LR much but for the 2015 model it is really sensitive at the beginning stroke, then goes linear/regressive for the ending stroke. That means you'd have to run a stiffer coil than if it were a purely progressive curve. If you like running your suspension stiff then you'd probably like it, since the beginning stroke is sensitive. You'd have to use more rebound damping than compression but that's fine. It's always going to be a trade-off of performance characteristics/suitable stiffness levels/favouring air or coil/damping balance. But it all works out in the end as long as you have the system set up to work together as it is designed to. You can't make any bike ride how you want it to ride. You have to understand how each linkage design effects the suspension's characteristics if you want to get what you want on a very deep level. It would be sick in my opinion. I like stiff suspension a lot. This is all my opinion and I'm just trying to give you some perspective, do whatever u think is right
There are some really messed up leverage ratios out there. Just because it is regressive doesn't mean it's not only mildly. I also said linear/regressive, which is what it is. Linear/regressive is very different than regressive.
@groghunter ninjaedit- you were right about the LR going lower as the bike goes deeper into the travel on a progressive linkage. A lower LR value means the suspension takes more force to move.
You said it was very sensitive at the beginning, then linear/regressive. What that means is it is very sensitive at first, then gets more sensitive. Which basically means your spring is too soft....
edit- to make coil work, you would have to use a stiff enough spring to avoid bottom outs, little to no low speed compression as the stiffness of the coil would be enough for a stable pedaling platform with the way the anti-squat is, enough rebound to tame the forces of the stiffer spring, and a few clicks of high speed compression to add a bit of progressivity to the end. Since it's a stiffer coil you won't need much.
I was thinking I might switch to a coil for bike park days, primarily. The more I look at it, however, I think I'd be better off going with a Vivid air for those days, than to a coil.
@groghunter I was assuming he actually looked at the graph before engaging in a conversation about the specific values listed in the graph LOL. Know-it-all objectivists make me feel silly inside.
edit - and yeah air is sick. Just coil is also so sick. Feels so good. Could switch to a vivid air/float x2 altogether and it'd be sick.
if he is saying it is sensitive at the beginning (which he did) this suggests it is more sensitive at the beginning than elsewhere in the stroke. This is called a progressive stroke. he then says is linear/regressive. So lets imagine what he is attempting to say is that it begins with a progressive curve for (at a guess cos he's given us nothing to work with) about half the travel, then linear, then regressive for the last 1/4 (then one bit of info he did give, when he said the regressive part started at the 120mm mark, although he then tried to deny that this was the last 1/4 cos of something to do with sag that was simply confused)
This would be a progressive to linear to regressive curve. This will suit an air shock pretty nicely, but is basically exactly the opposite of what you would want, in order to get good performance out of a coil.
Are you one of those internet trolls?
edit- here's the link I referenced earlier that you somehow missed 1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvICxL2jPf8/VHO8VBxJcuI/AAAAAAAAU5Q/SvjjTaLC9WU/s1600/Devinci%2BSpartan%2B%5BLow%5D%2B2015_LevRatio.gif
imagine that. I already posted it and you missed it.
"I'm not sure if they changed the LR much but for the 2015 model it is really sensitive at the beginning stroke, then goes linear/regressive for the ending stroke. That means you'd have to run a stiffer coil than if it were a purely progressive curve. If you like running your suspension stiff then you'd probably like it, since the beginning stroke is sensitive"
and thought it was worth pointing out that a shock stroke cant be most sensitive at the beginning then linear/regressive for the rest. Sorry it seems to have turned into such a shitstorm.
semantics people! they are funny and cause constant conflict! Poor humanity! Arguing the same points differently! When will we ever get along?!
The question in my mind is, with how much more volume the air spring in the Vivid is compared to the Monarch plus, combined with 40% sag, how he's not bottoming it constantly, what with the last portion of the travel not really providing any progressivity. Maybe just lots of HSC? doesn't sound like a setup I'd be to into.
I really should have known about those bottomless rings. I had a monarch HV that could use them up until I sold the bike two days ago.
@gabriel-mission9 I already understand linkage completely. My brother and I know how to make a design with perfect kinematics. But talk is cheap and starting a bike company isn't, nor is it worth my effort when companies like devinci are so close to having it perfect. Dialogue is more important than having a pissing contest about who is moar right.
Yeah you're right on that one, but let me tickle ur brain. There is such thing as a perfect compromise. The best part about these revelations is that eventually we will be able to understand the characteristics of a bike with objective clarity/full depth, so you will know exactly how the bike behaves before buying it. No more pissing contest over the best linkage design/geometry. When we have fully developed knowledge everyone will just ride the linkage design/geometry that they know they prefer. There are so many styles and designs and riding philosophies. It's very in depth and there are so many viable approaches to get to the top of the podium at the highest level.
You would've been perfectly happy 4 years ago with that size bike, and you know it. You even qualify that statement immediately by saying it's completely subjective. If you (the MTB media) keep it up, all bikes will have the same geometry in a few years until you change your mind and begin longing for a more comfortable upright position.
But Olly, please know that you are doing the right thing and this is one of the best reviews/first rides I've ever read. Never thought I'd say this but I respect the pinkbike first ride feature of this bike more than the vitalmtb one.
To me, you being on an XL is crazy! I'm 6,1" and averagely proportioned and I still prefer the medium in that bike
To each their own!
It's widely assumed we'll be seeing a new Spartan in the fall with longer reach as well, so that would leave the Wilson their only FS bike with short reach for quite a while.
I knew carbon was strong but never really visualized it. I certainly wouldn't have any worries getting a carbon DH bike.
So all in all, carbon May be more durable, but not much, while prices are quite high. I don't care if cracked carbon frame can be fixed with epoxy from Tesco, if I pay so much, I don't want to ride a cracked frame. My new bike is carbon but I paid as much as for alu thanks to a good deal. But I wouldn't ride ENVE rims, even if they paid me. Ask guides in Spain or Italy about failure rates in those hellishly rocky biking resorts.
edit: To me, I don't have any respect for welded aluminium. I broke two quite reputable top end bikes at the headtube junction. Metal mountain bikes are for the history books as far as I am concerned. Carbon bikes could last pretty near forever if done right.
Some people just want to strive for perfection, it's not a need, it's a desire. It's all about the journey, since it's a neverending journey as perfection is impossible to achieve. There is such thing as perfection though, you'd just be hard pressed to understand material manipulation/physics deeply enough to make it so unless you were a god.
Point is, it's fun and productive to talk about what could be, even if it might never be.
Anyway as long as the product is premium I don't care too much about how it looks. As long as the product is premium. The fkd up bit is that it's a disease of all types of humans. Caring too much about the way things look relative to how well they perform/hold up. I had it in primary school.
LOL SORRY. love you waki.
The issue with raw carbon is that unless you go for the stereotypical "carbon weave" look that you'd find on the inside of a 2004 Civic (or your Antidote), customers tend to look at it as a blemish. Find yourself a BMC TMR02, or a Norco Valence road bike and you'll see an example of two large companies attempting to do the "raw" look without being gaudy. They both look like a scuffed matte black frame, and neither would be described as beautiful.
As for your Antidote; I'm sure it performs amazingly, but for a company to try to introduce such a cliche look on a mass-market bike would be foolish. I know the world has more than one continent, but in North America that carbon look is associated with big shiny spinner rims, ricer civics, and the occasional Ferrari part. Yes a matte carbon frame can look a bit bland, but colour is whats "in," and a bike manufacturer is in existence to sell bikes.
side by side my alum. commencal meta sx flexes less then my buddies devinci spartan carbon......
i got hit by a buddy following me alil to close going down a rough trail and without a doubt i can say the frame would of been trashed. multiple dents in the frame with stress marks all over the paint.
this whole "carbon is best of everything" crap needs to stop. yes modern carbon is stupid strong and much more reliable but the fan boy love fest of it be indestructible is total BS.
Nobody is saying it is indestructible, but it's the sickest material available for the sport's demands and stresses. Name one material that surpasses carbon, in consideration of every aspect of bike design/manufacturing/use. It's amazing and we should just be so stoked that carbon is becoming the standard for top end DH frames. Nobody thought it would be strong enough for DH, and now we have carbon DH frames with lifetime warranties.
No, I'm not going to let you simply dismiss my argument.
What I'm saying: The general public looks at the cliche carbon weave look and thinks "That looks tacky, the salesperson says it's high performance but I can't get over the look. I'm going to buy brand X instead so I can get the performance with a decent appearance." Additionally, most of the Ferrari purchases done every year are ego driven and aimed at the image boost it will give them. Very few people look at the carbon on a Ferrari and say "wow, that must give significant performance benefits."
What I'm not saying: That "true" carbon is not an awesome material for performance, that either your bike or your apparent dream car are "bad", that I think vinyl is the same as real carbon, that I think many buyers are educated enough to make their purchases at a level above the emotional "I like the colour and it seems o.k I want that one."
Stop being hypocritical: You're putting yourself on the moral high ground by saying that riders shouldn't care what others think and that they should ride what they love; yet you include "Santa Cruz paint jobs with gigantic ENVE logos scream: I am a huge cock and my bike is more expensive than yours." So if I like the carbon weave look I can ride with you, but if I have ENVE wheels you'll snub me in the lift line? Everyone has their own appearance preferences.
On the topic of carbon helmets: Carbon is a terrible material for helmet design. There is a reason no respectable motorsports driver is using a carbon shelled helmet and that is because they shatter on impact. Sure you have the inner layers that stop the impact, but technologies like MFORGE (used by POC in the new Coron) (and every F1 team) are specifically designed to absorb more of the impact and allows the engineer to reduce the size of the helmet making room for liners such as MIPS. Never understood the TLD craze. Also, the selling feature of TLD helmets is the bright colours, not he carbon weave look. Go find a dealer and ask their most popular models (It's the shiny ones)
Most importantly if you take someone unfamiliar with bikes and show him aTi frame, he/she will appraciate it. Show them a carbon Nomad in black and tell them the price and you can be sure they will laugh at you behind their back. Show them Antidote bike and they will atleast get interested. Nerd environment of "bike of the day" traffic catchers is not really a place filledwith too much critical thinking. And that's a good way to blow a bubble.
Aahhh, and TLDcarbon helmets are not that carbon as you picture them
But again, it's all personal preference anyway.
Looks nice!
That under tray though, could they have gone a less industrial route?
450 reach for an XL?
Maybe 5 years ago....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_qGwBlJhaw
This.
This makes me happy.