PRESS RELEASE: Deviate Cycles, 23/11/17 1200GMTDeviate Cycles is proud to release two full carbon, gearbox complete bikes, with a frame-only option. Deviate Cycles are a UK-based bike brand specializing in gearbox bikes selling direct to the consumer.
The ‘Guide’ draws its name from decades of guiding experience by the founders, augmented by a naval and motorsports (Prodrive/Aston Martin Racing) mechanical engineering background, and reflects what will become the heritage of the company.
At the beating heart of the Guide is its Pinion C-Line gearbox. While the gearbox is nothing new in mountain biking, the new breed of Pinion gearboxes offers reliability and performance at an acceptable weight, allowing us to focus on creating the best suspension system we can. The suspension is optimised to work with the fixed chainline the gearbox provides. The Guide also features a high pivot point, which when coupled with our idler means that we can fine-tune the suspension to have both desirable anti-squat characteristics and zero pedal kickback. We have designed what we feel is a game-changer in terms of how a full suspension mountain bike should perform.
The overall design is also borne of what Ben and Chris have spent the last decade riding. The end result is a bike that tracks the ground like no other, reducing fatigue on long descents and allowing the rider to focus on the trail ahead. However, it’s the finer details that make the Guide shine. Twin lip wiper seals throughout are a testament to the tough conditions the bike deals with in the UK and the Alps. Weight is not a headline, but with the UK build coming in at under 33lb, the Guide sets the benchmark for gearbox bike weights. The Guide is ready for whatever you have planned for it.
With the end user in mind, we are happy to offer two subtly different builds, a ‘UK’ and an ‘Alpine’ build that reflect the different requirements of each environment. These builds are complementary to our frame design with each component selected based on proven reliability and performance.
Deviate Guide Details• Full high modulus carbon fiber construction
• Wheel size: 27.5″
• 160mm of rear wheel travel
• Supplied with Cane Creek DBAir CS or DBAir Inline shock
• Metric shock (210*55mm)
• Pinion C-Line 12spd Gearbox Drivetrain
• Integrated chain tensioning system
• Integrated bash guard
• Full internal cable routing
• 31.6mm seatpost with internal cable routing
• Enduro double row, angular contact, max fill bearings on all pivots
• Twin lip wiper seals for all suspension pivots
• Bonded rubber protection from rock strikes and chain slap
• 2.7” tire clearance
• M, L frame sizes (S coming soon)
• Delivery: February 2018.
• Price: £3399 including UK VAT Frame Only (inc. Pinion and frame accessories) / $4027 USD (approx.)
Gearbox DriveA 12 speed Pinion C-Line gearbox provides reliable shifting performance.
Huge Gear RangeA 600% range offers the ability to spin up the steepest hills or crank down the fastest singletrack! SRAM Eagle is 500%. 12 speeds with even 17.7% spacing ensure there is always the perfect gear for the terrain.
No DerailleurNo vulnerable rear derailleur saving expensive replacement costs and major inconvenience.
Shift while StationaryNo need to pedal to engage a gear – select your gear at any time. Never get caught in the wrong gear again!
Fully Sealed Drive SystemHermetically sealed gearbox results in significantly less maintenance than a traditional drivetrain system.
Superb HandlingMass is positioned low and centralized for optimal handling and cornering.
Improved Ground ClearanceA small front chainring achieves a high degree of ground clearance.
Unrivalled Suspension PerformanceGearbox drive allows huge benefits in suspension performance to be realized. Better suspension allows you to go harder, faster and longer!
High Pivot PointThe Guide utilizes a high pivot point which achieves a rearward axle path. This increases the compliance of the rear wheel as it can move away from impacts and square edged hits are absorbed more directly through the suspension maintaining forward momentum and improving traction. The rearward axle path allows the wheelbase of the bike to be maintained as the suspension is compressed achieving consistent handling.
Zero Pedal KickbackThe design results in zero chain growth and therefore no pedal kickback. This allows continued and unimpeded pedaling through rough terrain. It also results in less fatigue on descents as legs do not have to absorb this pedal kickback.
Anti-Squat OptimisedAs the gearbox based design maintains a constant chain line and chain length we can optimise the anti-squat characteristics across all gears. The system achieves approximately 110% anti-squat which results in a slight suspension extension under pedal input to increase grip on difficult climbs.
Low Un-sprung MassUsing a gearbox shifts the drivetrain weight from the rear wheel to the center of the bike, this reduces the un-sprung mass which results in a more responsive suspension system.
Efficient SuspensionUnlike a derailleur (and particularly, a clutch rear mech) based system, the suspension does not have to overcome chain tension.
Fully Sealed BearingsWe use top end Enduro double row, angular contact, max fill bearings on all pivot points. Furthermore, all these bearings are situated behind twin lip wiper seals.
UK Build
We like this build for mainly 1:1 (climb:descend) riding - but also works great in the Alps.
• Cane Creek DBAir Inline shock
• Cane Creek Helm forks
• ZTR Arch MK3 wheelset
• Cane Creek 110 headset
• 9point8 150mm dropper post
• Shimano XT Brakes 180mm rotors
• Renthal 35m 800mm bar and 33mm stem
• Maxxis HR2 Exo 3C TR tires
• Fabric Scoop Pro Team saddle (carbon rails)
• Price: £5699 including UK VAT / $6752 USD (approx.)
Alpine Build
We prefer this build for riding with some form of uplift assistance or very rocky and rough terrain.
• Cane Creek DBAir CS shock
• Cane Creek Helm forks
• ZTR Flow MK3 wheelset
• Cane Creek 110 headset
• 9point8 150mm dropper post
• Shimano XT brakes F: 200mm R: 180mm rotors
• Renthal 35m 800mm ar and 33mm stem
• Maxxis HR2 F: Exo 3C TR R: DD 3C TR tires
• Fabric Scoop Pro Team saddle (carbon rails)
• Price: £5799 including UK VAT / $6870 USD (approx.)
All orders can be placed via the
Deviate Cycles website
This frame is really affordable for a carbon frame with pinion and unique supension.
@bohns1 You’ll never see me wrapping a 70$ chain around that golden soup plate that costs more than my entire DJ bike
Looks pretty nice though
All gearbox bikes I've heard of are in the 5-6k range minimum, and that's a lot of money to spend in a bike hard to resale, with a new technology you might just want to give a go to.
A decent non-top-notch alu bike for under 3.5k with a gearbox and lots of people, me included, would be in.
I was thinking of an entry level Jeffsy with a pinion for 3.5k, they would sell like donuts, I think.
Compared to a high end drivetrain a Pinion makes sense. But for me £1000 is about 10 years of 10 speed drivetrains.
My only issue and why I haven't bought one yet- I hate grip shift. Once that has been solved I'll purchase a Gearbox frame
I think you could get used to grip shift. I used to ride it back in the 90s and it was fine.
As an aside, I meant Liteville earlier, not Nicolai. I actually really like Nicolai - they’re a good bunch of guys and they make some very nice bikes nowadays. We can turn a blind eye to some of the abominations they turned out in the past
Back to the main point- this gearbox bike. I think it looks cool, and it’s actually a lot cheaper than I expected!
Gives you a left/right up/down trigger combo that you can also reverse to not mess up your SRAM E-Tap road logic.
If you have and you had to do as you say, then it wasn't setup properly. Every pinion I have tried can be shifted under load, just reducing torque slightly.
Now stop talking shit and let the adults have their turn.
Happy Thanksgiving to ya as well!
I'd say it's about as exhausting to pedal as a normal bike with a 15kg trailer attached to it.
Gearbox shootout please with this Zerode and Nicolai. Need to get a company to make disc solid rear hubs for these bikes there is no need for a free hub.
finding that all the way down at the FAQ and still not giving a definitive weight on both the weight. But altogether, 2kg weight penalty for the named advantages? Curious for the review though.
Frame Weight: Frame (M): 2782g | 12 Speed C-line Gearbox: 2100g
The C of G of the rider is more important as it’s the heaviest part of the set up, so running a low B.B. will have more effect by lowering the CG of the rider, than trying to lower the CG of the Bike!! But every little helps!!
Yeah, so a lot of companies are trying really hard to design bikes with average or short length seat tubes to be able to fit a lot of different riders and seat post lengths. There are some still being stubborn and keeping it long like Intense , a lot of the Germans and some older small bike builders. But a new kid on the block pushing a seat tube in size medium of almost 46cm What the ....?
I'm built like a freaking dachshund so I'm of course over sensitive, but I think you should stop the freakshow and cut 40mm from the seat tube. It's a shame really!
So even if things are going according to plan, CC themselves say you'll only be riding about 2/3 of the time at most. That's not even including the $150/month it costs just to keep the shock working, again, according to Cane Creek.
All that said, I never had a DBInline last 3 rides without a failure....
But my customers have had zero issues with DBIL shocks and sure can service is no more difficult than anything else we work on.
That's the way Fox and Rock Shox are. I would just throw away XFusion and Suntour at that point.
Every point made.
Every description .
What a solid dependable mountain bike should be.
Dont like the weight?
maybe you should go on a diet.
The bike isnt heavy.
I have a question...Can you explain how this bike achieves 110% anti squat AND zero pedal feedback? Surely this in an oxymoron, anti-squat is pedal feedback. You can't have one without the other... I'd understand if you claim that the anti-squat drops off as you move away from the sag point, meaning there was little pedal feedback when deep in the travel or something, but you categorically state "zero pedal feedback at all". What gives?
I admit that you could argue that pedal bob (under hard acceleration when traction is reliable) would be reduced, although you would be hard pressed to find a modern day bike that can't make similar claims. I assume the 110% AS number is the maximum achieved throughout the travel, which would occur at full extension, then drop off as the axle path becomes more vertical. I'd be interested to see what the actual values on the trail average out at.
With an idler we can move away from conventional design thinking, where there is always a substantial distance between the bottom bracket and the chain line. With the idler mounted to the swing arm, the amount of anti-squat across the travel range is calculated from the vector components of the chain forces around the idler. These force vectors can be balanced, or biased in our case, for a given idler location/sprocket sizes, and an idler can be located in a position to obtain zero kickback.
Before this turns into a slanging match, let me make clear I really like the look of this bike. If I was in the market for a new one and had the cash, this would be on my list. I just don't like the way marketing teams often try to blind customers with long words and impenetrable technical explanations of simple processes, when really it isn't necessary.
I've never had a bike that descends as well as my zerode and it's honestly the most fun bike I've ever had, just can't climb as fast as some of my friends do! Hoping someone will make a shorter travel lighter gearbox bike, something like a 130/140 travel with maybe a 66 degree head angle.
Only thing that could drag a bit is the gearbox, but a rohloff drags more than a pinion and you can barely feel that.
You will lose more energy to the cross-chain events we see with modern drivetrains than with additional pulleys like on this bike - Think about the angle your chain runs when in the extremes of the cassette on modern 1X10/11/12 setups and the additional friction caused - This will run a dead straight chain.
It's good to show all sort of riders and terrains, but shooting someone with stiff neck riding brakes half way down on smooth terrain did not really appeal to me, quite vice versa. I would have liked to also (-this is important) see someone close to pro riding steep, technical and then fast rough terrain. Video gave me the impression that the rear end is not active at all and it looked as if there was 80 mm of travel. It also gave me the impression, that this bike is not made to last. I don't know why.
Not a rant or troll but honest opinion.
Low slung center of mass and low profile rear triangle make it look interesting, even if form does not follow function. I do like the idea of gearbox enduro bike without any extra hassle.
Let's keep in mind that these dudes are just getting started in the industry and probably don't have the $ to have a pro rider being shown on their bike, but then again, they probably didn't call you. ;-)
And I would also assume majority of riders in the world are XC/trail riding and this video most riders can relate to, I know I could. Peace and cheers
Although TBH Danny Hart could make any bike look fast - so it's not really telling you much. The only way to work out if the Guide will work for you is to ride one yourself...
Low maintenaince and for sure cheaper.A internal gear will not cost 400€ like a K7
Here is your gear box bike comment section! I bet none of you actually buy this.
www.pinkbike.com/u/paulaston/blog/nicolai-shootout-derailleur-vs-gearbox.html
Just joking, really interesting bike, and it looks really nice. Iam not a fan of direct sales but otherwise no one could afford it...
Can we get a picture of the bike on a white back ground though.
www.youtube.com/channel/UCgalAPZ6z8w5z4JyUEGV1hA
We've tried to spec our builds with solid components that last.
The weights that matter are below - everything else is down to the spec and if anyone wants to spec the lightest and most expensive parts money can buy you'll get the weight down more. That's not really the idea.
Also keep in mind that the extra weight is exactly where you want it - right under your feet and not on the back wheel compromising your suspension.
Frame Weight: Frame (M): 2782g | 12 Speed C-line Gearbox: 2100g
Rough Sizing:
Medium: 5'7" - 6"
Large: 5.10" - 6.4"
I'm 6" and currently riding a Medium which I find perfect.
Small frame to come soon.
Looks wise I really don't like the downtube shape and that'd probably kill it for me alone if it wasn't for the sizing issue. Somehow even with the pretty progressive geometry it manages to look too tall, short and upright.
A brilliant concept and I admire your commitment. Big cudos for having the balls to do this, not everyone will have my aesthetic preferences and I'm sure you'll do well with the a great combination of gearbox high pivot and carbon. Best of luck with it.
A Medium Yeti SB6 has 445mm seat tube with 426mm of reach... A Medium 2017 Nomad has 419 seat tube with 415mm of reach. So our Medium which has a 457mm seat tube with 450mm reach means we are more than comparable.
What's your inside leg measurement at 6'0"? Mine at 5'8" is 29" I've just measured my current bike and at 457mm I'd have 1-2mm before hitting the collar with a 125mm travel Reverb. I'd have to run 165mm cranks to achieve that mind and that may not be possible with the Pinion.
Just looking at the Orbea Rallon (pretty much perfect by all accounts) sizing - ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb14873013/p5pb14873013.jpg your Med sizes up almost perfectly with their Large.
I'm not baiting you here just saying you may have undersold your sizing a little. I'll be interested to see what the small looks like when you get to doing one. Best of luck with this, hope it goes as well as it ought.
In a way. We've gone longer with the reach and run a short stem. We find our M works for riders from around 5'7" to about 6", although we've had guys at 6'3 find it good.
The location of the high pivot means that to get full insertion on most droppers we've had to spec the seat tube a little longer than we'd have done in an ideal world.
I'm an inside leg of 32.5" and a 150mm dropper suits me fine on a Medium Guide.
The 9point8 droppers we spec can be reduced to 125mm. They have total 185mm height at max insertion.
M might be a little big for you and an S frame - hopefully landing by summer 2018 - would be more suited. We spec 170mm cranks.
We'd like anyone considering buying to contact us if they are unsure so we can arrange a demo...
It's a shame though, mentioning only the benefits puts this a bit in the "marketing bs" category.
Not mentioning the drawbacks seems like a lie to me.. I mean, anybody interested in gearbox bikes will do research anyway, or in the worst case, have the bad surprise when riding. Please, make that information easily available.
What's the extra weight?
How much drag?
We agree there is a slight weight penalty with the gearbox and some drag on paper over a conventional system. As we explain in the FAQ though in practice the drag really isn't noticeable when out on the trails.
We encourage anyone interested to contact us through our website for a demo as you're dead right - we don't want anyone surprised by the feel/performance of the bike. To date though - everyone who's ridden it has been surprised in a good way .
That makes sense. Personally I just didn't go further than this press release, this is way out of my budget.
It would have probably taken you just as long to have a quick look as it did to write that garbage.
One step wrong makes my comment garbage?
Hopefully at least Deviatecycles understood that a put " " and 'a bit' because I wasn't happy with those words.
What they surely understood is that to me, there should have been more info in this.
Grip shift actually works very well for a drivetrain that allows you to shift through gears without pedalling and that changes gear instantly. You can select your gear at anytime without pedalling, this means you never get caught in the wrong gear. If you are in the wrong gear you simply need to back off for a split second and twist through as many gears as you need.
It does take a little getting used to, but after a couple of rides it's hard to imagine going back.
Saying that - we know there are some riders that can't get their heads around grip shift (if that's you we encourage you to book a demo and see how suited it is to the gearbox) and we are working on a trigger shifter solution.
I like the gripshift a lot, but an electric trigger shift would pair very well with the box.
Full of absolute shit the press release is.
Bike looks really great! I'd take a bit of length off the seat tubes but the reaches are fairly long as it isn't a big deal unless you've got short legs.
I feel like the head angle should be slacker but I don't know how much stability is gained from that very low centre of gravity due to the gear box and shock down by the BB and the fairly long chainstays (even longer once into the travel) so it might be perfect already.
I like that the seat angle is a true seat angle, so it is a real 75 deg at pedalling height - so many bikes claim to have a 75 deg seat angle but only with the saddle level with the head tube (and no-one's legs are that short!), with the honest effective angle a few degrees slacker.
"Pedal kickback (ie chain growth) is what gives anti squat." - Incorrect.
The only downside of high pivot points appears to be high brake squat - but I suspect the huge decrease in unsprung mass gains you back as much grip as you lose (whilst also maintaining better geometry when braking).
Your own press release says you have chain growth
I love high pivot designs, but I also don't like marketing miss-direction.
youtu.be/sOneZZtSjKM
youtu.be/X2kKuZF5CJY
Gives you an idea of the terrain we were testing the bike on day in day out.
We acknowledge the terrain in Exmoor is not ideal for this kind of bike - time/logistics and budget pushed us to film it there. Saying that - we were not trying to produce a shredit - just some footage of the bike been used in wet muddy conditions here in the UK that a fair amount of riders can relate too. We'd much rather riders who are interested demo a bike and see if it works for them. What works for pro riders (with free kit) doesn't necessarily translate into the bike that the average person wants/needs. Saying that - we'll do our best to get it into the hands of someone who can blow out a couple of berms for us!
@T1mb0
You both take this way too seriously. You were the one who insullted first T1mb0 Jesus. Get off the internet you're both done.
Telling you to lose weight is not an insult it's life advice.