CyclingTips Digest: Enve Gets Into the Frame Business, Rapha's Powerweave Shoes, Cycling Monopoly, & More

 Even better, it looks expensive parked in front of the cafe half way through the 12km Sunday group ride.

 Well that’s the next evolutionary step... since off the shelf bikes costing already 12k€ (Road bikes!!!)

 How else would you build that $25000 bike to impress your peasants?

 It's actually not that pricey... $12,500 for a complete top spec build. That's on par with anything SLR from Trek or S Works from Specialized. That's basically the going rate for top spec road bikes and cheaper than some off the shelf top spec bikes.

 what would Paul Aston say and do about it?

 @ferenooo: Yet Dave Rome is "perfectly happy to jump back on my old alloy rim brake road bike after riding the latest and greatest race machine". Like in "we pay by the nose for... nothing. At all"

 @badbadleroybrown: worryingly, I kind of agree. I normally consider enve stuff a bit "try-hard", but I can see the point of this. Compared to mass produced top-spec big brands road bikes, the price is more than fair for a semi custom frame with quality components. I actually quite like the understated looks. Argh, I'm turning into a roadie!!!

 @badbadleroybrown: putting the bar of affordable at SLR and S-Works automatically qualifies you at dentist level

 @Mac1987: I didn't suggest it was affordable... and a product that's only going to see 200-500 units produced per year isn't meant to be an affordable, mass market item.

I'm just making the point that they're pricing it on par with other brands' top spec bikes while also offering a ton of customization options. Compare this to a Project One Emonda SLR9 and it has a similar or better spec, similar or better paint customization, and geometry customization that's not available on Project One (or from any big brand) for the same price or less.

 @Geoman: The people who are buying the bike have no idea what the price of a Kia Rio is, so they don't care.

 Road biking costs can be insane. I'd say $3,000 US will get you a solid bike but you can build a $40,000 US bike if you wanted to. Most frame-only high end options are $5,000 US+ and if you're lucky you'll get a seat post with with that. One that stands out for me is the Cervelo RCA... I think the original retail for the frame was $10,000 US. Check out some "climbing bike" builds where some people get their bikes down to sub 5kg. I'd LOVE to see Gustav build a no expense spared road rig... although, he'd have to find a hedge fund to sponsor him.

 Custom geo carbon is a pretty neat competitive advantage though

 It's actually a bit of a deal. If you max out the options on Enve's website, at the $10k level you can have paint matched carbon bottle cages and an *included* travel case, plus enve wheels of choice. Add $1k for the same spec from Trek, $2k for Specialized. Neither give you a travel case or paint your cages. The custom King Headset is also not an option anywhere else.

 @me2menow: Calfee has been doing this for years. I think the lugged carbon frames they offer have a beautiful aesthetic.

 I just built up a bike with their foundation wheels and the Force AXS groupset on the website. Looks like that would be $7,500. Not chump change, but for a custom bike with carbon wheels and electronic shifting, its not that bad TBH.

 @gaberoc: If you like the Calfee aesthetic, you should be appreciate that Enve helped them develop their carbon frame making process and makes their carbon tubes, along with tubes for dozens of other custom frame builders.

 I take my comment back. It would be $10k with that spec.

 @rexluthor: you clearly haven't spent any time on a modern road bike... electronic shifting may not be a substantial improvement in shift performance overall but it is better in a number of ways and routing wires is far superior to routing cables, which also makes things much more aero overall in frame design and integration. Literally any rider can tell a 3lb difference immediately... and disc brakes have every advantage on the road that they have in the dirt and then some. Rim brakes on carbon wheels in the rain or on a long descent are a flat out safety hazard for average riders.

Just like on mountain bikes, none of these things are the difference between a bike being rideable or unrideable but they absolutely make modern bikes ride better

 Not happy until they have a full susser frame in the lineup for $10k.

The Spanish-made Unno hardtail frame, which I guess is somewhat comparable in 'simplicity', is about $4700 usd.

 @badbadleroybrown: road bikes are unfortunately remarkably sensitive to reduced weight or drag. I just put a fancy semi-aero rear wheel on my Giant TCR and it's measurably faster, and I can feel it's easier to cover distance - Strava reckons I suddenly gained 20W. Routing road bike cables is a total pain, especially when they're aero integrated, so I can totally see why axs is popular for roadies. Perfectly happy with 105 personally. Oh, and discs? Game changer, especially as I love a challenging descent. Road rim brakes are rubbish...

 Just to be that guy; if those Enve frames are anywhere near the quality of the rims I've seen from them, be prepared for a splinter up your arse. I'd put my money into a brand that cares about cycling more than posturing.

 @sherbet: #facts

 Local shop in my small town has a $6000 trek frame on the floor. They keep a $10,000 sworks road bike around most of the time as well.

 @Geoman: Seeing all the downvotes we're getting, it seems criticism on calling car-priced bikes 'not-expensive' is not acceptable anymore. I'm happy for all the people making 6-figure salaries here.

 @Mac1987: don't think anyone is saying it's not expensive. It's just not expensive for what it is. The frame costs more than all the bikes in my garage, so I'm not the target market, but I think the whole bike seems a fair price. More fair than an s-works for example

 @Mac1987: see your problem is that you think people are saying it's affordable by saying it's not that expensive... that's not the case. Yes, it's obviously expensive, but to use your example of the Ferrari, it's like if Ferrari came out with a new car that they were only gonna make a few hundred of and rather than it being $400k it was only $100k. No one would say "hey, that's a cheap car" but pretty much everyone would say "that's actually not that expensive considering it's a Ferrari and it's basically the same price as a corvette"

So no, it's not an affordable bike but, for an extremely limited production bike with custom geometry, it's really not that pricey... the BMC Masterpiece, for example, is a limited run BMC without custom geometry that sells for $11,750 for just the frame, fork, seatmast, and cockpit.

 @badbadleroybrown: if you read my comment, you see I agree with you. It's relatively acceptably priced, but absolutely expensive. Funny that the highest rated comment has the same criticism on bike pricing, but in a less nuanced way, and gets 124 upvotes. At the same time, saying the same thing but with more explanation gets downvoted into oblivion.
My fault for expecting logical and fair assessment though. It's PB and we go by emotion.

 @Niko182 - yes it will better poop rainbows and unicorns, but have you ever taken lots of acid and look at someone using the toilet?

 Sub 20lb hardtail under $3k, using China sourced parts is honestly not very noteworthy. In terms of mountain bikes, we're truly living in a golden age.

 @ryan77777: Yeah, but the point is, people here are always crying about Pinbike never featuring “bikes people can afford.” Well here’s one. Not a peep about it. Instead, all focus on Enve.

And you bring up a good point about the light, cheap bike being sourced in China. The Enve is custom made for each buyer, right here in the States. So it looks like your choice is light and cheap from China, or light and expensive from the US. I’m not saying either is right or wrong, good or bad, but there it is.

Maybe We Are One will get in the frame making business and we can have “light and light reasonable.”

 @TheR: I am pretty sure your choice isn't a $7k frame from ENVE or a cheap, Chinese frame. But nice false dilemma there.

 @HB208: Ok, so tell me about all the cheap, light American-made frames available to me out there. All the sub-20-pound bikes under $3k not made in China.

 @TheR: Most bikes are made in Taiwan, which is not "cheap Chinese made" crap. They are literally the epicenter of bike manufacturing.

 @HB208: Ok, but you didn’t answer the questions, though — can you point to all the cheap, light, American-made bikes out there? And all the sub-20 pound bikes not made in China? Yes, I will concede there are many reasonable, acceptable options in between made around the globe.

Also, Not one person in this thread mentioned anything about “cheap Chinese made crap,” until you. Not making judgments on any of it. Just stating what is. In fact, my initial comment made no reference to China.

And again, my main point is everyone is outraged about Enve, but little mention out there of the light, inexpensive bike, wherever it’s made.

 @TheR: Ok, yes, I agree with you. To my knowledge, any bike that is made here in the US is much more expensive.

 Its hard to praise something that is made of cheap, untested carbon with wheels alike. It has no dropper and is just built as xc/gravel bike using tyres with a hard compound chosen for colour alone.
Its as relevant as the pretentious article further down about how to clean your matching bottles or ‘bidons’.
I like riding road but it needs to get over itself sometimes.

 @ilovedust: Well there you go, then. You can bitch about that and Enve. That’s the Pinkbike spirit!

 @ilovedust: I will say this, though. Calling a water bottle a bidon does come across as pretentious.

 Pole needed some competition!

 @mi-bike: but i like pole, dont know why them and enve not

 Welcome to the MTB world where Trek and SRAM f*cked everything up by doing this sort of shit to stay ahead of competition (at least they think they are).

 I’m just here for the orange tan wall trump jokes

 @DizzyNinja: All I know is that this dude name Trump, his middle initial stands for jaundice. Guess his son who's name after him is J.J.

 I think its cool that they're making a frame. it looks good and I'm sure plenty of people will buy them for the bling factor. But i just don't understand why anyone would pay that much for one when you could get a custom frame from a small frame builder and probably end up paying quite a bit less for something that is way cooler. Horse, Sklar, Prova, Inglis/Retrotec are all quite a lot cheaper and way better looking in terms of custom road bike, imo.

 Wait until the 5-year old Hambini get a hand on Enve's frame from someone who bought it and has a problem installing a high end bottom bracket!

 Probably for all the weekend roadies that think they're on the verge of getting a UCI ranking, and will be head-down with icy stares on the local group ride

You're bang on though, there's huge potential in the same way that MTB builds have evolved massively in the last 10 years.

 Yeah, makes no sense. Its why you see triathlon bikes pushing the innovation boundaries (including being ugly as sin) and TT bikes have kinda been the same forever.

 @HankHank: Not so sure myself, I think for pure road bikes the answer is mainly "because they started a century earlier", which the writer does acknowledge.
I really like the slow, careful pace of change in road tech - it means I don't have to change my road bike as often as I do my MTBs.
Just moved to disc brakes and 28mm tubeless tyres last year and it's a big improvement - but arguably the only really significant change(s) for the last two decades - for normal riders.

 @chakaping: that's a cool perspective, I'd not considered the lack of change being a good thing.
I'm just curious as to what could be done if the restrictions were lifted... The Aussies were riding sub-7kg track bikes in the 30s, and as mentioned above, TT designs are always interesting.

 @wilsonians: I have never understood the expression 'ugly as sin'. I've done a little consensual sinning over the years and it was always beautiful.

 The 5 day rule: if you ride more often than every 5 days you don't have to clean it!
Or the Catholic rule: Only clean your water bottle on Christmas, Easter, and when mom's in town.

 Welcome to the internet

 Have a link for this? Sounds like hearsay.

 @Delapp15: www.pinkbike.com/news/review-enve-m735e-wheelset.html

 @eteyber You should ask Brendan Fairclough, Amaury Pierron, or Connor Fearon about Enve durability. They might ride a little harder and know a little more than most. Connor came straight from running WAO's and hasn't looked back.

 @grizzlyatom: For sure; I imagine as a sponsored rider they probably don't have to deal with the terrible customer service or warranty process. I'll ask them next time I see them tho.

 @eteyber: Good info. I just don't see where they aren't honoring their warranty. In fact, I thought they beefed up their warranty a year or so ago?

But, yea, clearly some poor QC on their end, and after receiving a review like that, let's hope they step up their game.

I have a pair of M40s that came on my Lynskey hardtail, and I am super happy with the rim, but the Chris King hubs are do come with premium care costs, like their fancy lube, and needing a bearing press.

I think I enjoy my Hunt H_Impact wheels just as much, and actually notice their performance more often than these though, plus they both come with a warranty, and Hunt even paid for me to retrue my wheel when it fell out quickly.

I do think that they're being given a run for their money right now, so they should either step up their game, or get more competitive with their prices for sure.

Cheers.

 @eteyber: I wasn't talking about customer service or warranty (both of which are above standard in the industry) specifically, I was talking about the sheer durability of the product. Paul Aston was a disgruntled media schill who rode a wheel that wasn't up to the intentional thrashing he gave it on his E-DH bike, big surprise.

I've been around several world cup DH teams for years, and in the real world, the Syndicate had incredible success with Enve for many years as carbon was just entering the DH scene, Brendan Fairclough cased a 60ft canyon gap on live feed and rode the same, undamaged wheel to a podium at Rampage, the Kona DH team and others requested Enve wheels after speaking to other teams and having repeated failures with previous wheels, and Commencal has not had a single wheel failure of note under some of the fastest riders in the world for multiple seasons now. The abuse DH wheels take is almost unimaginable for the average rider. It is the ultimate proving ground. I don't think everyone has to ride Enve products to enjoy riding a bike, but if you don't have first-hand knowledge from riding their wheels or dealing with them as a company there's really nothing to be gained by endlessly berating them, even if their pricing offends you.

 @grizzlyatom: Agreed. In the end, I do like their products.

Someone said something about the golden age of MTBs right now, and the possibilities are really endless right now aside from bottlenecks in distribution atm.

 @Delapp15: Ya Hunt is a great example of the kind of carbon product and lifetime warranty that I had assumed was inevitably running Enve out of business.

 @grizzlyatom: Your right Enve increased their warranty to lifetime a year+ ago because everyone else had a lifetime warranty and I guess they didn't feel like throwing in the towel. Unfortunately in practice everything I've seen ends up being a very expensive crash replacement, compared to Hunt or Santa Cruz or Revel that get a new wheel to your door for free within the week. My personal experience with Enve is spending way too much money on their tubulars for race wheels and both rims cracked within 2-years; for the record I've never broken a carbon road rim before or after that.

While I think your history of DH teams never breaking an Enve rim is slightly hyperbolic, people are always going to have varying degrees of luck riding carbon rims hard. Confidence in the warranty process and a quick turnaround is what you're paying for, otherwise just get a china-carbon rim (or get the Zipp Motos if your a physics nerd and don't ride DH)

 Well, slightly hesitant to look like the douche in the supercar around town (Woodside). I'll stick with what I've got.

 Pretty odd way to say he has success with the ladies, but good on him I guess.

 Must be tough these days, trying to find stuff to complain about, eh?

 Bidon 2021

 been doing sports since the late 90s and i have heard the word Bidon in Track&Field, Road biking and MTB.

Roadies use this word mainly, to be fair the article is from PB sister website Cycling typs, which focuses mainly on road biking. But i've heard that word in MTB context regularly, in 2 different languages.

Need to ride more my friend, and different trails with different people

 @unrooted: “don’t call me buddy, pal!” Lol

 @DizzyNinja: don’t call me pal, guy!

 @chrod: Sellwood Cycle Repair was making Biden Bidons a few years ago. There are rumors that there might be another run.

 @unrooted: hahha, ok then, there is the root cause amigo.

 I heard that word years ago... at an auction.

 @unrooted Im with you on this. I have been ridding since the early nineties (including racing) and ride road as well. Its only in the last year I have heard that term for a bottle. Call it what it is. Im off to ride my velo touts terrain now.

 Enve = something others will *envy*. Simple as that. No other selling point.

 I think the main selling point (other than the fact it says ENVE on it) is that it's a carbon frame with custom geometry. Pretty uncommon and certainly goes some way to explain the enormous price.

 @codfather1234: Do you think you could do cheaper with S-works or Dogma?

 @pakleni: I have no idea, I have no info on the road side of things. My point is that taking the custom geometry into account, the price isn't perhaps as shocking as it may look.

 @codfather1234: Agree. It is not. Especially because the price is in the ballpark of mass production hi end bikes and cheaper than boutique brands like Heroin bikes