Ask Pinkbike: Loose Crankarms, Dumping my DH for an AM Bike, Direct-Mount vs 4-Bolt chainrings and Bike Vacationing in Finale
Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.
Loose Crank Arms
Question: Pinkbike user mobstar76 asked this question in Norco forum: Several of us have purchased Norco's Bigfoot fat bike and have had issues with the bike's Samos crankset coming loose after several hours of riding. I've had the crank bolt back out three times now, and the crank has fallen off while riding. This happened even after applying red Loctite. It seems that Norco went really cheap with the bottom bracket, and I'd like to know how many people are having the same issue.
 | Well, I'm not sure if you're going to like my answer, but your crank problems could have been easily prevented. There are two versions of the Samos fat bike crank, one with a 24mm diameter steel spindle and one with a 30mm diameter aluminum spindle, and I'm going to hazard a guess that your bike has the former. The issue is that the steel spindle is obviously quite a bit more robust than the aluminum crank arm, so when your non-drive side crank bolt comes a bit loose after the first few rides, which is far from uncommon as things seat in, the crank is no longer held snug on the spindle. That loose interface allows the arm shift on the spindle, which then deforms the aluminum. No amount of Loctite or leverage on the hex key is going to keep the bolt from coming loose after that, and the only solution is to replace the arm for a new one. This was a much more common issue back in the days of square taper bottom brackets, but still isn't unheard of. In an ideal world everyone would check the important fittings on their bikes after the first ride and every now and then moving forward, but that's not a realistic thing to expect. I'd recommend heading to the shop where you purchased your bike to see if they can help you out in any way, especially if it's a recurring problem on bikes that have all come from the same place - there may be an issue with the assembly. - Mike Levy |
The Samos crankset isn't particularly fancy, but it shouldn't cause any problems in the long run.
Dump my DH Machine for an AM Trailbike?
Question: Calsdal asks:All Mountain and Cross-Country Forum I am selling my DH bike and my XC bike to get an all-mountain bike. I wanted to know if AM bikes can cope with DH trails?
| The answer is a qualified, "yes." The gravity riders I know spend almost all their riding and training time on relatively lightweight 160-millimeter-travel all-mountain bikes. Recent developments in suspension design and competition among bike makers to fill the emerging, yet still nefarious market for long-travel enduro racing bikes has resulted in a crop of single-crown offerings that can be ridden by a competent bikehandler down almost any trail or situation that was once considered the exclusive domain of traditional DH machines. Santa Cruz's Nomad and the Yeti SB6c are two examples. Please re-read the "competent bikehandler" part because, while the modern enduro racer is intended to be ridden at speed on DH trails, its secondary mission - a bike that can also comfortably climb and accelerate - significantly erodes its durability in a crash and eliminates most or any cushion in its handling department which could be used to save your bacon when you make a big mistake. DH bikes are, with some exceptions, rarely ridden to maximum potential by their owners. Their popularity at bike parks is largely due to the fact that a forced error at speed or down a precipitous drop can often be salvaged, because DH bikes have so much extra handling in the bank when they are being ridden by average Joes. I think you'll ride an enduro-style bike more often than the two in your present stable combined, because you won't need to organize uplifts, or choose your bike according to the potential severity of the day's ride. - RC |
Shawn Neer riding his Yeti SB6c at Green River redefines the term, "all-mountain." Photo by Joey Schusler.
104 BCD Adaptor for Race Face Cinch Cranks?
Question: Pinkbike user silverfish1974 asks in the Bikes,Parts, and Gear forum: Anyone know if you can get a 4 bolt adapter to use a 4 bolt single chainring with Turbine Cinch cranks? I have seen an adaptor but I'm not sure if that's for a double chainring set up only. I was thinking can I use my 4 bolt chainrings that I have first. I can't seem to find out the answer, can't find the adaptor I think I'd need and can't see any pictures of people doing it.
| Yes, Race Face does offer an adaptor that will allow you to run a four bolt, 104 BCD single ring. It's mainly designed to allow riders to run multiple chainrings with a front derailleur, but by removing the little ring and the spacer it sits on you'll be able to run a single ring. However, at almost $60 USD it's a bit pricey. I suppose it depends on how many 4 bolt rings you have laying around, but I'd be tempted to skip purchasing the adaptor and to pick up a direct mount narrow wide ring instead. It'll save you a few grams, and it looks a lot cleaner as well. - Mike Kazimer |
Race Face's Cinch-equipped cranks can be set up to run a four bolt single ring, but the direct mount option is a much more elegant way to go.
Finale going riding.
Question: Pinkbike user von-rumford wonders in the Europe Forum: Title says it all really. Myself and a few mates are hoping to organize a cheap trip to Finale Ligure, Italy, in summer and thought you guys might have the inside info on it.
| The word cheap is not synonymous with Italian holiday, but it can be done. Flying to Nice is simple from many UK airports and should be cheap, if booked in advance. Get the bus from the airport to the train station, then the train along the coast to Finale takes about an hour and a half. True money savers would then build their bikes on the train, put all the other luggage in to their roller bike bags, and then pedal from the train station to their accommodations with bags in tow - so, no taxi fees! Eurocamping Calviso has self-catering bungalows to rent with kitchens, so you can prepare your own food from the supermarket on the cheap. Handily, the nearest supermarket to the camping is Dico, which is one of the cheapest in town, and it's on your way to and from the beach. You can either pedal to the top, or use a shuttle service such as Finale Freeride where a day's riding will cost 40 Euros. Finale Freeride boasts private trails on the 'Defender Tour' as well as all the other trails in the area. They also have a bike wash and self-repair station for post ride maintenance, which could be helpful if you only have enough baggage allowance for basic tools. One thing to bear in mind is that Finale gets pretty hot in the summer months, maybe you could try a cooler taste of Italy by heading to the mountains nearby in Molini di Triora. The altitude here will keep the temperatures down, and if you fancy a little more luxury and convenience, a package trip with Riviera Bike starts from 595 Euros. This includes airport transfers, shuttles, guiding, secure storage and workshop. Generally, the guides in Molini offer free drinking help and advice every night in the local bar. - Paul Aston |
Sun, sea and enduro. Finale Ligure is one of the best bike destinations in Europe.
Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.
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I spend a lot of time on my Enduro bike, but every time I get to ride my DH rig I have such a big grin on my face, it's just so much faster and it can take such big hits, it amazes me every time.
I've been in a bikepark with my Enduro bike and followed some friends who were on their DH bikes (they ride about the same speed as me) and I was able to keep up, after I got used to it, but the track was pretty easy, you could double most stones and roots, I had no fun that day, though.... The bike just felt like it was out of it's comfort zone (it could've been ridden faster/harder for sure, but it's not designed for this) and I was really scared of breaking something. Things like breaking bumps, which are just a bit annoying on a DH bike, felt sooooooo harsh and everything was shaking and rattling.
I love my Enduro bike on my local trails, which are some of the hardest I know, but it felt totally out of place on a DH track or bikepark.
So what I'm trying to say is: Yes, you can ride an Enduro bike at speed on bikepark DH tracks, but it doesn't feel too good and it'll show a lot of wear!
I feel like I spend too much time on my Enduro, so I started building some little tracks near my place, I can get there with my DH bike in 10 minutes. It's very short and nothing special, but fun and will allow me to spend more time on the big bike.
Multi-bike quivers people. Yes if you tell yourself you can afford two bikes you'll find a way to get another. I convinced myself it simply wasn't an option for way too long, but I'm glad I now own two bikes. It is what you make of it. Yes you can get away with a long travel "enduro" bike, but you'll eventually end up like me wishing you had a DH rig every time you're at the bike park.
The short answer is it doesn't even come close. And everything that was mentioned in PBs response as well as Anchoricex's is true. I go faster, smoother, and safer on the Sunday and that all adds up to just more fun. With the incredible decline in DH bike prices there's no way I'm selling my Sunday which I built up new in 2013 (NOS frame + new parts). The one day of riding the Tracer at Summit took felt quite taxing on the bikes components and it simply didn't feel bulletproof the way it does on even the most rugged AM trails in my backyard.
Absolutely love this combination and have fun anywhere I ride. From skateparks, dirt jumps, pedalling XC to shuttles and DH park laps. Would I be faster on a DH bike? Probably... But I still have a sh*t eating grin at the bottom of any hill.
The am bike is 10 pounds lighter, accelerates so much faster, pedals better, pumps better and is more "efficient" all around. Hell there is this 30ish feet jump here I have to pedal all the way to the lip to clear with the dh bike, like 12 pedal strikes. With the AM bike if I give more than 5 strikes I am certain to overclear. Translate that on a trail and riding is generally more effortless and I fly over sections I had to roll through previously.
The gnarliest of the gnarly tracks will be better on a DH bike but I hardly ever come across anybody when I ride those so it tells me that very little people actually need a big bike. Maybe if I lived in B.C. I'd be singing a different tune but considering most people probably couldn't push an enduro bike to its limits, some should really take a look at the mirror before making statements about what sort of bike is justified or not.
But I don't think you need the "gnarliest of courses" to have fun on a DH rig, it just depends if it's more about speed and maybe a bit rougher terrain. The bikepark track I rode wasn't hard at all, everyone could've rode down there, but you could ride it very very fast, and that's what made it so uncomfortable on the trailbike. It was less stable, but I was okay with that, but I felt like it was nearly bottoming out every 20m and I could feel the wheels flex etc..
But my experience is, that bikepark track f*uck up the bike way more than some proper natural DH tracks anyway, because of alle the braking bumps and normally the ground is really really hard from the thousands of riders.
As I said in another comment, I use my Trailbike to ride the local DH race track quite often, but I wouldn't bust out 20 laps a day on that track with that bike, I ride it liike 1-3 times a week for one lap and I've already broken enough stuff on that track (derailleurs, lots of spokes, rear rim, etc).
Yes, even though I ride my setup relatively stiff, the 160mm front and the 145mm rear suspension will bottom more often than its 200mm counterparts on the DH rig but like I said, the small bike is so much more efficient (read: faster) all around that I wouldn't trade it for the big one unless the trail really really calls for it. It's a different type of fun and I really like it... But I also love busting out the big bike for the big stuff. The "taming of trails" and the "appealing to the masses" phenomenons really give me less and less reasons to bust out the plower though.
The mtb crowd is weird. "I like 27.5 wheels because its slightly faster but please don't take away my inefficient oversized suspension travel!"
I owned a v10 and rode it a lot, so I know the difference between an AM and DH specific bike when it comes to proper DH tracks, but still hey, it was super fun and a good training.
cos they are lighter with less travel? How do you think they achieve that without losing durability? magic?
Yet I never see forums full of people complaining that their AM bike broke because they rode too much DH. I don't see any reasoning behind your point and you haven't tried to explain it, beyond "cos they are lighter with less travel"
Yes, I am saying a frame will fail earlier because it is lighter. It is indeed possible to make a frame heavier without it being any stronger (you could fill it with concrete, or give it 17 different adjustable geo options) but to make a frame that has already had all the unnecessary fat trimmed off lighter, you have to take a hit on strength and durability.
Or use magic.
With that in mind, everyone who is riding a DH bike is paying that weight/strength penalty. Nobody in this thread will be hitting stuff that big and pushing the bike that hard.
When you consider the average joe you probably could get away with an AM bike, as it is over engineered in the same ways that DH bikes are.
Of course there are the high profile racers which are somewhere in between and do need a DH frame to take the abuse, but probably 98% could get away with an AM bike, the remaining 1.999999% for DH racing and the top 0.000001% for rampage type riding.
Unless you have waste material in silly places (adjustable geo options or whatever). But seeing as most high quality bikes have had all the unnecessary fat trimmed off these days, the only material left is structurally important
fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/downhill-freeride/945590d1418226436-dh-am-mountain-bike-p5pb10201876.jpg
I am not underestimating engineering, of course I understand that a change in material or some engineering breakthrough can increase strength and shave weight. But this same material will be applied to DH rigs as well as AM rigs. The DH bikes will still most likely use more of this new wonder material, due to the higher durability required of them. More material = more durability.
More durability means a longer lifespan, not just one off impact resistance as required by rampage. 3 years of smashing through brake bumps is going to cause a lot more fatigue than 1 monster drop, landed skillfully. I am not inclined to buy a new rig every couple of years, and I am inclined to smash it through brake bumps as fast as possible. A DH frame will last me longer AND allow me to hit brake bumps etc faster, no matter how good a rider I am.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. The fact that people still rock DH and XC bikes from 2005 shows that most bikes are very durable and will last.
As far as what you want to ride thats personal preference and we wont come to a resolution
I have been through a frame a year for the past 3 bikes , on bikes considered to be tough monster trucks , yet all 3 of them cracked in under 1 year , I'm a fairly mid pack rider , nothing mental , not some wanna be josh bender hucking off cliffs , don't crash often just a guy who rides as often as he can on DH tacks.
There is no way an enduro bike will last as long if ridden in the same manner unless you slow down and back for the sake of preserving the bike.
And at Groghunter, yes for sure a 160mm rig will get you TO a lot of trails faster than a DH bike. I agree completely, and I really would like a bike like that (well, maybe 140mm, so that I can actually enjoy riding it up a hill). The only point I am trying to make is that a DH bike will get DOWN a legit DH trail faster than an AM bike under the same rider. And if you keep on hitting the same trail over and over until one bike breaks, its gonna be the AM bike that breaks first.
As for the durability thing tho, it doesn't matter how small the stresses are, a DH bike is just going to be more impervious. No matter what/how you ride, a DH bike will do it for longer before snapping.
Don't get me wrong, AM bikes can be awesome. I want one. However the original question was "can an AM bike handle DH trails?" I think the answer given was somewhat misleading, and should have simply read "Yes, but you won't go as fast, and your bike won't last as long"
Anyway, I should probably stop commenting now as I have just been "doored" by an idiot delivery driver. Not only did he not apologise, he also seemed to think it was somehow my fault for riding past an apparently parked car, not his fault for not seeing my 300 f*ckING LUMEN front light and opening his door into my leg while I rode past at a good 25mph. I am now in a f*cking bad mood, and pinkbike arguments (of course I mean friendly discussions
Hahaha, alright, so Enduro frames are cleverly engineered, but DH frames are put together by monkeys?
The same clever engineering goes into DH bikes, I mean just look at the latest crop of carbon DH frames, they are super light.
No one says your Enduro will go up in flames or explode if you ride some DH with it, but it won't be great on it's durability (don't forget about bearings, etc..).
I've got a race track from the IXS Cup in my hometown and I ride it quite often with my trail bike, but that's like 1-3 times a week, that's a huge difference to blasting 20 laps a day, like you do in a bikepark or when shuttleing. Still, I bust a lot of spokes on that track (never have with my DH bike).
I don't even know why people are discussing about this, yes, Enduro bikes are pretty capable, but they will never be as good at downhill as a bike that's just built for riding downhill and nothing else, end of discussion.
yes you can ride an e bike with a coil shock and 40s at a simple race. Bit he admitted himself that he would not race that frame at some wc track. The geometry and suspension are not up to it. EWS is moving to coil out back.
Many questioned how many rear ends he has broken. Users of the yeti too who have experienced issues.
personally I just moved from a nomad to a mega tr with the same long travel fork as was fitted to the nomad. I hardly ever took the nomad out as it was not as good as the scalp at dh and nothing like the azure for xc. The tr just makes sense. Dh and burly 170,130 trail bike with very aggressive geometry -2 angleset fitted (for now)..
However, I must thank the adherents of this fad; years ago, when only a handful of us would regularly ride trails all winter, it was tough! It took around 4-6 days after a snowfall to get the trails to a rideable state.
Now that every other dirt-roadie out there has picked up a fattie, the trails are like snow-covered footpaths after only a few days.
And when it comes time to traveling you only need to take one bike! Which makes big trips a lot easier and cheaper. (The deciding factor in my decision).
I get your point but everybody always say it's better to learn the basics on a hardtail and I agree with that. More forgiving bikes are good when you want to start really pushing it but until then, I feel they could be a handicap for a lot of people.
Riding within your limits is how you keep it safe. If you use a 8" to get away with sloppy riding, you're doing it wrong.
If you only go to a bike park once or twice a year, and don't like to hit the double-black diamonds with your hair on fire, it would be great. If you ride at a park more often, or like to really push it in questionable terrain, then get a DH bike. You will have more fun, and the bike will last longer.
If you want a DH bike, shop used. I purchased an 09 Devinci Wilson frame, and have completely built it for less than $1000, INCLUDING the cost of the frame. I was lucky in that I had a Marzocchi Shiver laying around, so that made it a bit cheaper...but point is, shop smart! You don't need a $4000-8000 dh bike to have fun or race.
But while the DH Fork, etc. will help with stiffness and comfort, the frame will still take a lot of stress.
I've never seen one of these crack, but bearings etc. will have a lot of wear. Graves doesn't have to ride his bike for 2 years or more.
I mean Mitch Ropelato raced some crazy DH tracks on his 29" Enduro, that's great for him, but I can only imagine what the bearings and bushings looked like afterwards.
Friends of mine race at a semi pro level and do crazy sh*t on their trail bikes, stuff I would be scared of on my DH bike, but I know through how much parts and bearings (or frames) they go a season... that's just crazy!
So.....you chose to ride your enduro while your friends are on DH bikes on a DH trail while keeping pace you say " I had no fun that day" WTF!? Why do you even ride!
Yes, if you ride slower. And your bike will still break sooner even tho you are riding slower.
fyp
I see the opposite , trails were raw and gnarly as a standard 10 years plus ago , the smooth bike park/groomer/no brainer/no danger trails are the modern thing.
@timsim07 did those trails somehow disappear? Because, for the vast majority of riders, the trails are the same as they were tens years ago, but they don't need a DH bike to ride them anymore, because the trails that have kept up with what a modern DH bike can do, are largely restricted to parks & racecourses. Public lands trails? 10 years ago, there were some that merited a DH bike, especially since the market was largely divided between DH/freeride, & XC. Today? I think you'd be hard pressed to find a trail outside of a bikepark or racecourse, that can't be ridden just as well on a 6" bike.
(message too long so I have to split it in two)
I ride about 28 days of lift assisted downhill per year.
I spent 21 of these in my local bike park resort close to home. The terrain is pretty rocky, very technical but super slow. Average speed on a dowhill bike per run: less than 15 Km/h. Good solid wheels are required to resist to the river of rocks and stones but the speed is not very high. Of course DH bike are more comforatble on this terrain, more efficient surely but for my skills I don't know if it will make a big difference.
I spend about 5 to 6 days to the Alp D'huez for the Mega. Clearly in this mountain except on section of the course which is technical and rocky, the rest of the ride is pretty smooth and not super technical. The downhill bike is not a clear advantage on this terrain. I think the Enduro bike performs overall better on this terrain.
The rest, it's another bike park called les Orres. There is groomed terrain with no speed bumps like A-Line and very technical trails with a lot of roots sometimes similar at No Joke in Whistler. Yes, in this resort a downhill bike is better. But I go to this resort only 5 or 6 days max per year.
So at the end, the choice of having one or two bike is not easy. Maybe having something in the middle is good: Enduro bike with another set of strong wheels for big abuse and why not a triple crown with 200mm for the holiday in the big bike parks. Still cheaper than having 2 bikes?