Pinkbike Buying & Selling Tips [Read for full info]

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We only ask that you follow the rules for your own safety. It's not a set of rules like a concentration camp, it's a set of rules to protect you from fraud. Please follow them and you shall never have to worry.

If you can't be bothered to read this now, feel free to read the whole thread later, and briefly read points A-H below. But be aware that nobody else is to blame if you decide not to read it and are scammed.

-Pinkbike BuySell is free and the site is not to blame if you are scammed, just use common sense and vigilance and read the following-

*UPDATE*

1 - People are still falling for EMT, Bank Transfers and other non Paypal methods. Scammers know they can steal your money this way, so please pay by Paypal Goods and pay extra to cover the fees!

2- People are also accepting Paypal Gift as payment BEWARE - You as the seller can lose your money by accepting gift, as the buyer can scam you by telling Paypal they didn't authorise the payment or they were hacked. Accept Paypal Goods, and you're covered.

3- SEND YOUR ITEMS (big or small) RECORDED/TRACKED - If you don't, the receiver can easily claim they didn't receive the item and make you look like a scammer or claim thier money back through Paypal.

# If you send recorded you can go onto the postal service site (with the tracking information on the receipt) which will conform if the item was, or was not delivered, giving you 100% guarantee of not being called a scammer, nor losing your money on a paypal dispute.



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Okay, so looking at the forum, I have noticed alot of scams are taking place on a daily basis.
This should not be a worry for you if you are buying or selling unless you don't follow the following tips.

Remember these main points before reading;

a) if it's to good to be true, Then It's probably a scam

b) Screenshot (printscreen) the ad and pictures

c) Ask questions i.e, Previous buyers usernames who've brought items from them.

d) ALWAYS pay with paypal GOODS.

e) Ask for recorded delivery with a tracking number.

f) If the item is a bike or big item delivered by courier/parcel, YOU the buyer arrange delivery

g) If in doubt ask a moderator to check them out..

h) Do not close a case with Paypal before you get a full refund/the item (as it's a struggle to re-open)

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PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING:

-If you have been scammed, post HERE, with the scammers user name provided. - DO NOT HESITATE TO REPORT THEM ON THE THREAD OR DIRECTLY TO A MODERATOR, THIS INSURES OTHERS NOT TO BE SCAMMED (Even if you reported them to the police)

-Please contact me or the following (who are Pinkbike staff who have 'Mod' in blue next to the 'Plus' on their profile) if you have any queries. Contacts are titled as Forum Mods.

Also, you can report a user by clicking on 'More+' under their profile and choosing 'Report User' and then in DETAIL state why you are reporting the user. Or go to How to use forum tools - If you're new to Pinkbike.

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-RULE 1 When buying/purchased the product. Screenshot (printscreen) the ad and pictures.

Why?

This will give you back up for your claim with Paypal/Moderators if needs be. Also, some scammers delete their ads after selling to get rid of evidence. This way, if someone claims the item is in good condition and it turns out ruined, you have back up.

This thread will show you how to print screen if you don't know how.

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-RULE 2 Ask questions i.e, Previous buyers usernames who've brought items from them.

Why should you ask for seller history?

If you ask the seller of the item, the usernames of the people who bought items from them, you can ask the buyers if they received their item, if it was in good condition etc. But beware; some scammers use their friends as fake pretend customers, hence why you should go back to the rules. If the person refuses to let you pay via goods, report them to a moderator on HERE

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-RULE 3 ALWAYS pay with paypal GOODS. NEVER Bank Transfer,E-Transfer, Money Order or Paypal Gift etc.




NOTE: That sometimes you get charged a fee when paying by gift BUT it DOES NOT cover you. The reason is when a personal payment is sent using a credit card there is a fee involved and the seller determines who pays the fee. If a personal payment is sent from a PayPal balance there is no fee involved.


Why should you pay by goods? Well look at it this way;

a) You're covered by Paypal when you are charged a small % for insurance, unlike gift, where you cannot claim your money back, if anything goes wrong.

b) You've just got to think about what you're doing when you pay via paypal gift, you wouldn't meet someone in the street, give him money, and hope he comes back the next day with the parts.
Also. If you pay by gift, you wont see a penny back. because yes what he has done is illegal, as it is theft and fraud, but what you have done is also against paypals policy, and possibly illegal. You have lied when making the payment saying that the funding is for a gift, and they cannot charge you for a gift, they cannot add a fee on if your sending money as a gift. But as you did it to bypass paying paypal fees you have broken their rules.
You can also check out the thread: Being scammed through paypal this will help you identify a real or fake paypal email.

Note; If the seller doesn't want to pay the percentage (%) of fees, offer to pay the fees on top of it. DO NOT fall for gift!!


“Personal Payment” means amounts sent between two individuals (not to or from a business) without a purchase. Examples of Personal Payments include sending a gift to a friend or paying a friend back for your share of a lunch bill.


“Purchase Payment” means a payment received for any of the following:

-A payment for the sale of goods or services;
-A payment you received after using the “Request Money” tab on the PayPal website;
-A payment you received for a donation; or
- A payment that is sent to, or received by, a business or other commercial or non-profit entity.

Also, read; Fake Paypal and fraudulent website Q&A for all the info you need.

-HOW TO RAISE A DISPUTE-

If you paid by goods and are scammed, follow the below steps and you can raise a dispute to get your money back.


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-RULE 4 Ask for recorded delivery with a tracking number.

Why should you ask for recorded delivery and tracking number?

With recorded delivery, there's no way that a parcel or package can be 'lost' in the post. Also, if the buyer doesn't receive the goods, the seller can show proof with the receipt that he/she sent it. A tracking number also is useful and is good to prove that the item has been sent.
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-RULE 5 If the item is a bike or big item delivered by courier/parcel, YOU the buyer arrange delivery.

Why should I do that?

This way, you know you're getting the item and are not being scammed. Insist to the seller that you arrange delivery as it could be a scam and the seller may not send the item.

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-If you pay by gift then you cannot get your money back,so pay by goods then you can raise a dispute.

-Look at the join date and the ad creation date - Scammers are joining up and making fake ads and then automatically marking them sold to make it look like they have a seller history. You can usually tell if they marked the item sold on the same day they joined. Always refer to the rules even if they out smart the common scam they do.

-Do not close a case before you get a full refund/the item (as it's a struggle to re-open)

-If you are buying make sure they have paypal and ask them for their postal code and address, use the post code and check it out on google maps.

-Ask the seller to sell through ebay on 'Buy It Now' plus pay by paypal. This is good if you're selling or trading bikes or large items and are shipping across the country as you're 100% covered if the item you bought is damaged, or if you get scammed.

DO NOT accept:cheques,wire transfer, Paypal ONLY! it is the only way of retrieving your money if you are scammed.

-If you want to make sure the bike isn't stolen ask the seller for the frame number and then contact your local police.

-Send all items you sell via recorded delivery.:The moderators can't do anything if you send via normal post and it "gets lost in the post with no proof". However, if you have a receipt from sending via recorded delivery you can take a photo/scan the receipt and show it to the moderators as proof.
This also assures you that both parties get what they paid for/sold and if the item does get lost then you have proof that you sent the item.

-Look at their join date (although not always a definite sign) Most scammers are new but as said, not always, so refer to the 5 rules.

-Keep any transaction records for a couple months after the transaction is complete. Put shipping receipts in a box and make a yourself a folder on your desktop and throw your conversations into there. There's a 45 day window for people to open a claim through Paypal. So if you assume that the transaction is done and over with and delete everything 5 days later then 10 days later you get notice of a claim against you, you're screwed. A lot of scammers rely on this and will open claims several weeks later knowing that most people clean out their inbox frequently.

Cash On Delivery (C.O.D) is another payment method if you do not have paypal but only use it locally, not for anything else. It's a tracked parcel shipping that requires the person to pay for the item upon delivery of the good for the set amount. Its an excellent way especially for younger riders who may not be able to receive a paypal account. You do have to pay for the shipping cost to send it but you just add it to the cost of the item if they are to pay the cost of shipping in the first place then you are required to sign for the delivery of the money order upon the return of money. And if you are the one who is receiving the product through this method you can inspect the parcel and return it if being scammed and they will not have their shipping cost reimbursed but will be charged double the shipping cost for a returned item. Teaching them the lesson crime does not pay. It is also a lot 70% cheaper than a courier service requires no third party to investigate and no waiting time for them to make a decision based on their policy of return.

Just remember the following before jumping for COD.
Sending anything COD is a bad way to do business in any country.
Once it leaves USA/Canada it is in the legal hand of other countries - customs and mail systems.
It can get lost easily and damaged. If returned you may not see it at all or may take up to 6 months to get it back.
In USA or Canada the USPS/Canada Post will move the COD to delivery places, they have up to 30 days to pay for it
or send it back to you. So u have money out there for up to 60 days. So never ever do COD.


1) Unlike Paypal, it's safe for seller, but unsafe for buyer. You could be paying $100 for a box of old newpapers. There is no chance of a refund.

2) You can pay the postal worker and then ask if they can you hold on, so you can check if everything is correct in front of them, BUT once you have paid, the postal service is released for all liabilities. They also cannot accept an opened package. The buyer, is also NOT allowed to open the box until they've paid.

3) DO NOT EVER DEAL WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE ESTABLISHED FEEDBACK, OR....someone who will pay up front EMT., Direct Deposit., Money Order., Cheque all received and with sufficient time for the funds to be verified received. NEVER.

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Buying 2nd Hand - What You Should Look For thread is also good if you want to make sure you know what to look out for on a bike before buying.

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Selling:

-Be really honest with your advert and include every last paint chip, scratch or cable rub.

-You can always spot a good ebayer because they will offer a viewing opportunity before you bid.

-If selling then be really strict with postage, i.e. if you sell something on a Monday, dont put sending it off until the following sat morning as you will earn bad postage feedback because the winning bidder will not receive his item for nearly 14days.

-Get your bike shop to check your bike/parts over or serviced (as witnesses) before shipping the bike, so if someone claims the bike/part is broken you have back up.

-Using paypal when selling and buying is also a good idea (even on Pinkbike). You can get your money back on items that were not correct. It is just safer for all parties. Never ever send money orders or western union. Again NEVER NEVER NEVER send money orders or Western Union.

-Get insurance cover by the courier company for your item just in case it get's damaged.

-Ship via Recorded Delivery, just in case the item gets stolen or lost, you will be covered.

Acquiring a box for delivery

-When you send a bike, you're obviously going to need a box for it to send the bike in.

-You can get a box for free from your LBS (Local Bike Shop) or Halfords as they throw out their boxes after using them. I wouldn't get a box from anywhere else as these boxes are bike specific boxes.

A few tips:

-Make sure you get the correct size box.

-You will have to measure the frame, then measure the box to see if it fits. Usually 2 inches extra space either way is best.

-Brand new frame/new condition? - Get bubble-wrap and parcel tape, then wrap the bike up in it. Couriers partly can't be held responsible for damage caused to the bike or parts, so you won't have an unhappy buyer when they receive it.

-Brace rear end (dropouts) and fork if a road bike.


THIS IS HOW YOU WRAP A FRAME AS AN EXAMPLE - Make sure it is covered in the important areas.


-Insure the parcel if you can; this will make sure that you/the buyer get a refund if anything happens.

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Buying:

-Also, if you are the winning bidder and go to pick up the bike in person- dont try haggling on the sellers doorstep as you will both get bad feedback from each other.

-Best place to meet is train stations when there are a lot of people. And try and bring some company whether you're buying or selling.

-Always take a friend/family member with you when meeting.

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Decide what the items you're trading are worth (you should agree on the same price). Then once you get his cleared payment, send the item and visa versa. Using paypal goods will give you an option to get your money back of he fails to deliver or sends you a dud item.

If trading big items like bikes, or things that can be carried by parcel couriers, you and the person arrange pick ups from each other, instead of arranging your own parcel to be delivered to the other person. This way, you can guarantee that you'll both get your items.

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KEY POINTS ON SCAMS
WHEN BUYING OR SELLING

There are a few things to watch for when you are BUYING/SELLING:

1. If the messages says "Dear Seller" it's almost always a scammer.
They send out mass e-mails so it's mainly kept generic.

2. They keep referring to your item for sale as an "item".
Take note of this when they don't say what you're
selling in your post.

3. The item you're selling is always in bold,
brackets( ),CAPITALS or quoted " ". eg. I'm
interested in your (forks), I see that you have a
"bike" for sale.

4. These are keywords to look for in a common scam
email:
SHIPPING COMPANY
WESTERN UNION
MANAGER WILL SEND YOU A CHEQUE
I NEED YOUR NAME,ADDRESS & TELEPHONE NUMBER

5. They offer you more money for what you are asking for.
Wether it be they are offering you £50 on top of the
money you sold the bike for, for selling the bike to them,
or diabolical offers such as £500 when you are only
selling your bike for £200.

6. Try to stay away from cashier's cheques and Western
Union since many of these are fake and used by scammers.

7. DO NOT Accept Cheque Payment by anyone, always cash
in hand or Paypal.

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(Picture below is original source, click on it and you'll see the text better)




As you can see, there is another way of thieves stealing bikes from your property. This is simply done by pretending to have interest, then going to the property to steal the bikes.

The best way to defeat this (without me giving away anything to these thieves) is by doing the following:

-Do not let someone go to your address to see the bike.

-Do not give out your home phone number only your mobile/cell number.

-Arrange a meeting time somewhere away from your home address (or anyone else's)

-Take someone with you (or a couple of people. The more the safer) and meet in a public place filled with members of the public, i.e town centre.

-Best place to meet if you live in a town or city is outside a police station for obvious reasons. And if you're legit, you have nothing to worry about. Even explain to the police why you are doing it.

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There are several different scams to watch out for but all are basically to do with overpayment for your goods. In a classified advertisement scam, a scammer responds to an advertisement for anything: a car, a bike, a computer, furniture ... anything that is being advertised at a reasonably high price.

BUYING & SELLING SCAM 1 - "OVERSEAS BUYERS..."

-The scammer will express an interest in buying the item that is for sale. However, the scammer tells the vendor that he lives abroad, and that he would like to send the vendor a cheque to cover the cost of the item, plus an additional amount to cover the cost of shipping the item overseas.

-If the vendor agrees to this, the scammer sends them a cheque or a banker's draft for the total amount. The vendor pays the cheque or draft into their bank account, and the bank clears it immediately, making the funds available in the vendor's bank account.

-The scammer then asks the vendor to get in touch with the shipping agent immediately in order to arrange the shipment overseas. The vendor does so, and the shipping agent (another scammer) asks for their fee up front. They usually ask for the fee to be sent via Western Union to enable them to collect it immediately. As the scammer's cheque or bank draft has been cleared by the bank as soon as it was paid in, the vendor agrees to this, and sends the shipping agent their money.

-The vendor is usually then contacted by the scammer, who asks the vendor to send the rest of the money back as he no longer wants to purchase the item. There is usually a hard-luck story attached: one common story is that the scammer's son or daughter has been involved in an accident or is seriously ill, and the scammer needs the money to pay for their hospital treatment. If the vendor agrees, they transfer the rest of the money back to the scammer, again probably via Western Union.

-At this point, the vendor is unaware that they have been scammed. They remain unaware of this until the scammer's cheque or bank draft completes the bank clearing process - which can take days or even weeks - and the bank finally finds out that it is a forgery.

SCAM 2 -
"I'VE SENT YOU TOO
MUCH MONEY..."

-Another one works when the person who has agreed to buy your goods says a mistake has been made and instead of (for example) £100 the cheque has been made out for £1000 and would you cash the cheque and send back the difference.

-The cheque will clear into your bank, only to be stopped/refused weeks later. At this point, the Banks/Building Societies will take the full cheque amount back out of your account. Not only will you have lost the goods, you will be out of pocket for the amount of their original cheque (£1000) and the amount you passed on as the difference (£900).

SCAM 3 -
"SOMEONE OWES ME MONEY..."

-This one works when you are contacted by someone offering to pay for your item in full. They will say that they are living in a different country but that someone in England owes them money. They will offer to send you a cheque for far more money than the actual price and then ask you to send the difference with the goods.

-Again, the cheque will clear into your bank, only to be stopped/refused weeks later. At this point, the Banks/Building Societies will take the full cheque amount back out of your account leaving you out of pocket amount of their original cheque, the amount you passed on as the difference and any goods you have shipped.

IN SUMMARY....

-In all of these cases (and there are many more), at this point, the vendor is unaware that they have been scammed. They remain unaware of this until the scammer's cheque or bank draft completes the bank clearing process - which can take days or even weeks - and the bank finally finds out that it is a forgery.

People who want help to protect themselves,come on where is the common sense now days and how many times do people have to repeat themselves before the most basic information sinks in.

If it's to good to be true THEN IT'S A SCAM.

If they insist on paypal gift or bank transfer WALK AWAY.

If in doubt ask them to go through EBAY.

Ask the user seller QUESTIONS and INFO on any of his/her previous buysell HISTORY.

YOU SHOULD, THEREFORE,
BE EXTREMLEY SUSPICIOUS IF:

-Someone responds to a classified advertisement you have placed and wants you to ship the item abroad, without even having seen the item.I recommend caution when dealing with anyone based outside the UK.

-They offer to pay you the amount of the item, plus the shipping costs, and ask you to arrange the shipping and pay the shipping agent yourself.

-DO NOT be reassured if you receive a cheque or a banker's draft and your bank clears it as soon as you pay it into your account; it may still be a forgery, and if so, you will lose out.

-Someone sends you a cheque or bankers draft for your goods, then asks you to return the money to them for whatever reason, via an instant cash transfer service such as Western Union or MoneyGram. Cash transfers made using these services are instant, meaning that the scammer can get his hands on your money well before you find out that the cheque you received is forged

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CREDITS (for some of the information goes to)

marquis (ex-moderator)

curiousdeanne

Nobble

Harry-H

YoungLink

Almostwise

SquareHead94

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Links to other threads I have created which you may be interested in:

BIKE SECURITY - A Guide to Theft Prevention

HOME SECURITY - A Guide to keeping your bike safe Indoors.

RECOVERING STOLEN BIKES FROM EBAY & CLASSIFIED AD SITES

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