TESTED
ENVE
CARBON
WHEELS
BYBRAD WALTON
It is probably fair to say that ENVE's carbon rims are hands down some of the most lusted after components that can be added to a bike. Like a fresh pair of Air Jordans, these trick hoops instantly elevate any rider to 'baller' status. Even riders who aren't familiar with these wheels will stop and ask, "Are those carbon rims?" All this attention is well-deserved after shelling out $2,888 USD for set of complete wheels identical to what's tested here, not to mention the rim-only price of $999 USD. There's no denying it - that's a hell of a lot of money, especially considering the fact that one can assemble a very decent wheelset for the price of a single 475 gram ENVE rim. Given their high price, what exactly are you getting after parting ways with all those hard earned dollars?
ENVE DH Wheelset Details
• Purpose: Downhill • Rim: Uni-directional carbon fiber • Hubs: Chris King (tested) or DT Swiss • 32 DT Competition stainless steel spokes • Rims made in the USA • Width: 30mm (21mm internal) • Rim weight: 475 grams (claimed) • Wheelset weight: 1843g (claimed), 1922g (actual) • Max tire pressure: 40psi • 5-year warranty on rim • MSRP: $2888 USD/wheelset, $999 USD/rim
| TFBF (Total F'ing Bling Factor)
While the initial sticker shock may cause heart palpitations, the exotic combo of ENVE's carbon rims laced to Chris King hubs are the pinnacle of downhill wheel design and technology. The look of the deep-dish raw carbon rim alone is enough to justify the purchase for riders who want the latest and greatest, regardless of the cost. But whether you drool or scoff at ENVE's aesthetic accomplishment is largely irrelevant to the company that was founded to create no-compromise composite components. The appearance is a mere side effect to the mechanical advantages of properly molded carbon fiber, and ENVE knows the competitive athlete will stop at nothing for the slightest advantage over their opponent. Regardless of your reasoning for this purchase, you'll need to stand your ground as you become the center of attention. It's unavoidable when your rims cost more than many complete bikes, and nice bikes at that. |
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Our ENVE tour wasn't able to expose much about how these rims are made, but we did develop a strong sense of pride in their hand craftsmanship throughout the manufacturing process. From production to inspection, wheel building to wheel destructive testing, every part of the process is done in-house in their Ogden, Utah, facility. |
The ENVE DifferenceEmploying a patented and proprietary process for their carbon rim production, ENVE is confident their DH rim is up to the task of downhill riding and racing. Utilizing state of the art carbon production techniques, ENVE is able to create a rim that is not only lighter than most every rim intended for the same use, but one they claim is stiffer, stronger, and more resilient than any other comparable rim. The process is somewhat of a trade secret due to their utilization of a removable bladder, but we were able to see the basics during a recent visit to their manufacturing facility.
It all begins with a raw carbon mat that is laid up by hand around large, wheel-shaped metal forms manufactured on ENVE's CNC machines. To create the hollow rim internals, an inflatable bladder is incorporated into the carbon layup. Once the carbon goes through the curing stage, which involves adding heat and pressure (
known as molding), the bladder is deflated and removed entirely. It's an easy concept to understand, but removing the bladder is much more difficult than it sounds. Some companies will leave the bladder behind as part of the rim, not only adding unnecessary weight, but also creating difficulty for wheel builders in balancing the wheel. There is no finishing work applied to the rim post-molding - what you see, aside from their added decals, is exactly how the rim came out of the mold. ENVE has the process down pat, and this predominantly hands-on, made in USA manufacturing methodology is exactly what makes these rims so expensive.
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ENVE's proprietary carbon layup process utilizes an inflated bladder that is removed after molding. The rim is then patched and refinished. Alloy spoke nipples are located inside the rim and require a specific spoke wrench for building/tensioning/truing. |
Wheel StiffnessBesides the basic rigidity advantage over aluminum that is possible when carbon is laid out with stiffness in mind, ENVE has employed several other points into their wheel builds to further add to their solidity. A 2-cross spoke pattern is used, which is not necessarily stronger than a 3-cross pattern, but is said to be laterally stiffer. This is mostly due to a shorter spoke with less slack than a 3-cross build. Spoke tension is also unusually high, with ENVE going beyond the upper limits of what would typically be seen on an aluminum-rimmed, 32-spoke wheel build. Traditional wheel builds registering 1,000 Newtons of spoke deflection are considered to be at the upper limit of spoke tension, but our test wheels meter in at 1,200-1,300 Newtons. To get away with this extreme figure, ENVE utilizes a large and proprietary alloy spoke nipple that precisely interfaces with the internal shape of their molded spoke holes.
Rather than drilling the spoke nipple holes through the rim wall, ENVE's uni-directional carbon fiber strands are routed around the spoke holes and continue around the molded rim. These unbroken fibers not only reinforce the spoke hole to withstand higher spoke tension, but also serve to spread the load of each hole to the neighboring hole on either side. Distributing this load uniformly around the rim makes it easier to build a wheel with even tension, as well as produce a higher quality wheel build that will require less maintenance down the road. On the internal side of the spoke hole, molded nipple seats on the inside of the rim allow the alloy Pillar nipple to articulate and align with the exit angle of the spoke. This ensures the nipple will not be bound against the rim or bend, greatly reducing the possibility of premature spoke breakage.
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Handmade in USA is only part of the cost of these rims. ENVE's research and develpment has led to a rim that they say is unsurpassed by any other material in wheel stiffness, dent and flat-spot resilience, and damping characteristics. |
In-house TestingENVE has a test lab where they evaluate their own designs and conduct batch testing. Rims and wheels from every manufacturer are tested with the same variables against ENVE's own carbon rims to establish their production standards. As seen below, ENVE tests how a competitor's rim holds up against their own in the square-edge test. 85 lbs of weight is dropped from various heights until the failure point is found for every rim.
Riding ENVE's Carbon DH WheelsWe've ridden a lot of different wheelsets in our time, but never before has one felt so obviously different than the carbon-rimmed ENVE set. The difference in acceleration was night and day, something that we would usually attribute to lighter weight (
they were 1/4lb lighter than the wheelset they replaced ), but we didn't feel the advantage on the sustained climbs required to access our gravity trails. Instead, it was the outright stiffness that made the difference. The rigidity of the carbon rims, paired with the super-high spoke tension, is so ridiculously different that it actually took some adjustment on the trail. ENVE's stiff wheels simply transfer energy better. Corners are more predictable, steering is more precise, and every part of our bike felt tighter while riding with the ENVE wheels bolted on. It is often said that a high-end wheelset is one of the most beneficial upgrades one can make to a bike, and this has never been more true than when talking about the ENVE wheelset.
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Stiff wheels inspire confidence in all situations. |
The un-parallelled stiffness comes with a learning curve, however, as we found the front wheel to cause a touch more deflection on rough and rocky portions of trail. This was mainly noticed on straight, high-speed sections where a rock edge was encountered, with the stiff wheels not being able to provide as much lateral flex to dampen the impact. This is a trait we had never considered with our traditional hand-built wheels, but also something we missed while riding the carbon wheels. This feeling never disappeared during our time on the ENVE wheels, but even still, we're betting that the benefits of the overly stiff wheel will outweigh any adjustment period for most riders. The much talked about vibration damping qualities of carbon aren't quite as apparent when a 2.5" tire and 7" of suspension travel are thrown into the equation, which isn't surprising given ENVE's pursuit of rigidity over forgiveness. One of the best qualities of using carbon for a rim material is that it can be configured to resist impact damage much better than an alloy rim. This impact resistance allows riders to run lower air pressure without worrying about flat spotting or denting the rim's sidewalls. Interestingly, we never suffered a single pinch flat during testing, something that we were half expecting given the rim's stiff nature.
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Our rear carbon rim couldn't handle a big G-out in uneven bedrock. A carbon component should never be used after a crack like this becomes clearly visible. |
We took the ENVE wheels to the proving grounds of Whistler Bike Park for some high-speed lift-accessed riding over rocky terrain. One of the fastest runs of the day had a large G-out compression mid-run, bottoming the suspension and causing the bike to emit a strange "popping" sound. Nothing was immediately noticeable, but upon inspection at the bottom of our run a crack was clearly visible that ran down both sides of a spoke hole. We presume that an aluminum rim would have at least had a large dent, if not a massive flat spot from such a harsh compression. In a race situation, both the aluminum and carbon rim would likely have been able to continue to finish the run. It goes without saying that a rim of any material
should be replaced after this, but purely out of curiosity we decided to continue riding on the ENVE rim. Part of our reasoning behind continuing to use the rim boils down to that fact that it would be easy for many riders to not spot the original crack in the first place. We wanted to know just how long the damaged rim would last, and if it did fail, in what manner.
We made it through a few more runs in the bike park, but after coming up a short on a jump during another ride, the pre-damaged carbon rim exploded into multiple pieces. There's no guarantee that an alloy rim, pre-damaged or not, would have survived a miscalculation such as this, but it is possible that an alloy rim subjected to this type of punishment could still be ridden out of the woods. In our case, it was a two hour hike out, carrying the bike. ENVE evaluated our wheelset to determine the cause for the initial crack and claims this to be the first consumer warranty on their DH rims as of yet. Since the carbon layup is done by hand, there could have been human error involved in the patterning of the directional strand fibers before molding. The intact front wheel was also tested to see that it met ENVE's standards, which would eliminate any possibility of a batch-related error during the molding process. In general, we were pleased to see that ENVE does care so much about their product and were hard critics of their own suspect rear rim, and it should be noted that the rim was covered under their 5-year warranty program.
ENVE had this to say about our damaged rim:
The rims initially delivered for testing were from a batch of lighter weight pre-production prototypes developed for smoother World Cup courses and lighter weight racers. Under extreme G-out compression or impact the light weight proto rims were susceptible to cracking at the spoke face as the strength of the tire channel would over power the lighter weight sidewalls and instigate a compression fracture, which is exactly what happened during the failure of Pinkbike's test rim. It is of note that the rim returned to ENVE exhibited no damage to the actual hook bead and tire bed of the rim. ENVE replaced the test rims with current production rims that are 30 grams per rim heavier than the version reviewed here. The current production rim available to the public is the same rim that the Santa Cruz Syndicate raced during the 2012 season and that Greg Minnaar won the 2012 World Championship on. While ENVE has brought to market a carbon downhill rim capable of withstanding the harshest riding conditions in the world, they are close to indestructible but not totally. As such, we stand behind our product 100% and extend our 5-Year Warranty and Lifetime Crash Replacement to the original owners of all ENVE DH rims and wheelsets.Technical report• The ENVE wheels did not require any maintenance, tensioning, or truing during our test period. Even after the rim cracked, the wheel remained perfectly true.
• Most riders and home mechanics will not have a Pillar nipple wrench on hand. Though readily available through a bike shop, it seems like for the cost of these wheels ENVE could throw in a spoke wrench.
• King hubs have a bit of a break-in period. Though the axles are adjustable, we found ours to either be too tight or too loose during the entirety of the test.
Pinkbike's take: | The wheelset's incredible rigidity adds up to superb cornering and acceleration abilities, making them ideal for a racer who is looking for that split second advantage on race day, but we have to admit that we would prefer to ride a more traditional wheelset for day to day use. And while we certainly respect and appreciate domestic manufacturing, the original crack that we experienced proves that carbon reliability often boils down to the human touch regardless of which country the component is produced in. Would we have had years of trouble-free use if we simply replaced the damaged rim by way of ENVE's 5-year warranty? Possibly, but then again we know with near certainty that any consumer who paid for these wheels with their hard earned money would feel quite let down by the failure in the first place. The real benefits of ENVE's DH wheelset comes from added stiffness, flat-spot resilience, and some possible weight savings. None of this will matter to the average rider, but then again, this isn't your average product. Those looking for the competitive edge just may see the value. -Brad Walton |
www.enve.com
An the price is ridiculous!!!
if you wanna see this broken
I inflate mine to over 40 quite often to get them to seat properly , then let some out after of course.
Also are they OK to be run tubeless ? Does stuff like stans tubeless gunk have any negative affect on the carbon ?
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p5pb8921632/p5pb8921632.jpg
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p5pb8921708/p5pb8921708.jpg
Been going through forums checking how people feel about them, cause i am unable to test ride them properly, and everyone has been stunned as to how good of an entire wheelset it is.
@bradwalton - agreed, but only if we are talking frames or wheels. In other areas, such as cranksets, handlebars, seatposts - why not? Aren't new technologies good enough so that you can be a weekend warrior and rely completely on your carbon bars, for example?
Yeah they might of given up anyway later on but still you can't really blame the rims.
( I'm assuming you mean you got injured when the rim failed )
But still it was a great review , seemed very honest to me , I was not expecting a failure.
And you are right to be mad at ENVE , they must be crazy to give a pre-production wheel set out for it's 1st (?) review , I think they are bullshitting you personally unless they thought you/readers would be more impressed with a slightly lower weight not expecting the rim to fail.
Too bad about the consequence I've been there...
And @ hitarpotar- good enough is all relative. Carbon is not good enough for me. I've posted enough content to this site that viewers should know if their riding relates to mine, and that if so they shouldn't ride carbon ANYTHING.
unbelievable
www.pinkbike.com/u/spoiledgoods/blog/sam-hill-crash-fort-williams-2010.html
Just a few dents, but not broken yet.
@rocnriderider we need a link with it
www.pinkbike.com/news/Pinkbike-Product-Picks-june-15-2012.html : "Unfortunately, we experienced repeated loosening of the front hub bearings during our time with them"
Let's hope that the take-away for the readers is: If your carbon component shows cracking, discontinue use immediately.
Those are the OLD Havoc's. We are talking straight 2012 version which have been revised in multiple aspects (new hubs/bearings? 1800g'ish, New Decals). And yeah, you're good to get the Azonic Outlaws..imo the best/strongest wheelset for the price. You do get a bit more weight, but that's all negligible for a super durable product that lasts years and years of abuse.
About the article.
1) If Enve really did send tester Proto-Rims, the test is all BS, right from the start. You don't give a tester a product that IS NOT GOING TO BE USED by the NORMAL CONSUMER. What's the point?
2) I understand Rider/Tester wanted to ride more after the cracked rim, but after that point, the test DOES NOT HOLD, or should not be considered in a positively objective way. That part was purely for "fun". If you ride a broken part...it's already broken and the consequence should already be known.
2b) Tester does not like Carbon..sure I have my own reasons and ideas, but any test should be relatively subjective/bias-free. Whether you like Carbon or you don't, having certain feelings in one direction will cloud the main/final result of the test, which is the point of testing the in first place.
3) Leads me back to point 1, the test was not good/set if Enve really sent you Prototype rims. But, it could be an excuse as always...who knows.
Carbon has a much higher strength per weight vs. Aluminum, but Aluminum naturally has a more 'lenient' durability...people need to remember that the stiffest equipment isn't a good thing. You ALWAYS need a degree of flex/compliance or things will crack, snap, etc.
esp about the flex.. its a 50/50 deal..
Carbon isn't perfect. Believe me, I know. I've done my fair share of damage to an ENVE rim (at 5'8" and a solid 150) as an aggressive rider, but I've never flatted out because of my rim failure, nor did it cause me any physical harm, even after riding LCC on a damaged ENVE rim... It had five cracks and would have failed soon, but I chose the wiser route and sent it back to the company, rather than risk my personal safety.
Their product is solid, as it should be for that price, and I've raced and ridden (hard, by the way -- i'm not nice to my equipment) on these wheels with complete satisfaction.
Are they a perfect, guaranteed safe, you-can-pummel-all-you-want wheel? No. There's no such thing, unless someone starts making diamond wheel sets. Carbon can fail, depending on how it has been built. Are they damn great wheels for a professional (or aspiring pro) rider who wants this certain technology and the edge that technology will provide? You bet your ass they are.
@ Ambatt, thanks. And what you said is very very true. The expectation level is very very high, but for that price it is somewhat called for. But carbon is a material that should generally be trusted given that it's tested/perfected. Also, it's very important with CF to never take it beyond its capabilities that it was intended for.
And got an offer for you..that thing you said about the diamond wheels....want to start a new company? We'll call it "Diamond Composites Inc." haha
i know you will going to say that Enve its stronger,but remember nothing is unbreakable
sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/6354_186667318142725_859132380_n.jpg
Have u tried the new stans flow?
I think it was a major flaw to let out those two photos as well as some info I know i read in the initial article. It is a review of a product that we trust our lives and our shoulders with, sorry to hear brad, and the truth should be exposed. Not im not saying riding a severly damaged product is good but what brad encountered with the demolition of these wheels is something i could see another rider or myself doing. I would be quick to see that crack in the rim and i would actually still probably ride as did brad. If that crack creates possibilities for such a dangerous outcome, i think us readers should know about it. Brad attempted to expose the truth that carbon is not the wonder product weve been looking for and i stand by my very first comment on this review, at the same time i think it was a poor decision on mikes part to tamper with the review and try and hide the photos and some content to the public. Sounds like something the government would do... Regardless, i hate to pick at these small issues that bother me and its a pain to type this out on my phone, all in all i think the point has been made that mountain biking is a hostile enviroment regardless if your parts are plastic or metal, its just a choice of how you would like to torture your bike and how healthy your wallet and time is.
We've have seen that Carbon even with its really high PSI threshold failure rate, people are still achieving this kind PSI rating/failure with not too crazy examples. These examples we all thought were "too extreme" for even the rider to handle (that they would die before the CF product even remotely cracked)..but it looks like that isn't true. Even so, we all know as well that Carbon has a tendency to not be flex compliant and instead translate all that stress into a violent failure or clean snap. That's an issue that will plague rims, handlebars, etc and make them more susceptible to cracking/failures.
So, there's a future for Carbon, however, more testing has to be done, more R&D, etc. It seems like the idea is good in theory but there are a few problems with it once you introduce it to the real-world variables.
Either that, or the resin used is 1) brittle and 2) bonds TOO strongly to the fibres, resulting in a fast fracture, rather than absorbing energy in splitting the fibre from the resin. Poorly made. Carbon requires real attention to detail to be effective.
Kinda hard to believe it while watching the mechanics build wheels after wheels for some of the more rocky races....
And of cause ENVE would say that. What do you expect them to say?
Also, what is the price of a single rim, without hubs, spokes, nipples, just a rim?
That's (refering to the 850 GBP mark) more than twice the price i paid for my barely ridden Easton Havoc 20/12x150 2012 wheelset. Still rolling despite several minor dents, and the replacement rims are around 240-250 USD, postage not included. I still can't seem to find the advantage of the ENVE against the Havoc, even with the 5-year warrantee.... :?
Having said all that, the initial crack is disturbing and I would want to know a bit more about the likelihood of this happening, but as an unusual failure that shouldn't be enough to sentence carbon wheels to death in my opinion.
Also the part about sending prototype rims without telling him makes me lose any faith in the company. Especially because these "lighter" protos still weighed more than the claimed weights for the normal rims.
As you can see, I could have ridden out on these, but no way could the carbon rim with the crack be ridden out.
Surely no ones crazy/foolish enough to do a 85foot drop ?
A cracked rim is not at all sensationalistic. If the review was left at that, and a replacement obtained for further evaluation, then Brad's review would have not come across as such shit.
Of note, the front wheel required almost no maintenance. How many aluminum rims of any brand can manage that after 5 weeks in Whistler?
Review says: "We presume that an aluminum rim would have at least had a large dent, if not a massive flat spot from such a harsh compression."
Walton's comments say: "I was following Morland and Billinghurst. Both of them had alloy rims, neither of them had a problem" So, which is it? Carbon fail and alloy success, or did they hit a different line?
Review says: "A carbon component should never be used after a crack like this becomes clearly visible."
Comments say: "These rims cost me a separated shoulder." Which is it? Brad, I'm sincerely sorry you separated your shoulder, but it was because you cased a jump with a compromised wheel. Products should cover us to some degree during rider error, but there's a point in there somewhere that it becomes our fault.
Brad, you did a good job sounding neutral in the review, but I think it would be better if you stated your biases up front. In the comments you said, "I've posted enough content to this site that viewers should know if their riding relates to mine, and that if so they shouldn't ride carbon ANYTHING." I have to wonder why they had you review these rims. Basically, you've said, "I hate carbon and I should never ride it, now here let me ride some carbon from a company that only does carbon, and do a review for you." This just shows how unreliable reviews can be. I hope you try to destroy every product you ride, but are you tempted to save such effort for products made of materials that you've already decided you hate? Come on, you kinda wanted to make these pretty-boy rims look bad, didn't you?
I'm skeptical of the rims, but I think I'm more skeptical of reviews now.
Most riders would not even notice said crack. I just happened to be looking to see how the rims were holding up. I kept riding to see what would happen. I have ridden plenty of cracked aluminum rims for up to a year. Heck, one of the editors at PB has been riding a broken carbon frame for nearly a year.
I didn't ask for these wheels. I was given the wheels by Pinkbike along with the quote "Let's see how long it takes you to break them." I do not care to 'make products look bad'. My job is quite the opposite. I stated the facts up front in an unbiased manner. Regardless of the exploded rim or my injury, the rim cracked on an easy DH run after only 5 weeks.
My written review reads quite different than what you've read here. Everything gets heavily edited. Enve was allowed to add their thoughts on it as well, without any mention to me, ever, of these rims being 'pre-production prototypes'. Based on the weight of the rims, I doubt they are. All the evidence is laid out before you to make your assumptions about me and my reviews, but you should be thanking me for writing something honest.
And regarding my views of carbon, that is a recent decision, largely based on these rims and a few broken cranks and bars.
I will never thank someone who writes as you do. Its arrogant knuckledragger drivel. Steve Peat didn't break the wheels in a full season. Either you are a hack (which isn't likely) or you broke them to prove a point, since many others (myself included) have been unsuccessful in breaking carbon wheels. I weigh 265, and am not a great rider. I think my wheels experience unusual stress and don't break.
Iamamodel- are you in a relationship with brad or something seeing how you defend the clearly poorly written and biased review.
Brads reviews are the only ones I pay attention to on here because I know he rides hard and many of the same places I ride. Seems you've had good luck with your xc carbon rims he had a different experience let it go. Take a brake man you've been defending this company all day.
I do appreciate honesty. I didn't know your stuff got edited a bunch, because if anything I would like to see reviewers be more honest. With the review plus your comments, I got a much better view of where you were coming from and what your experience was. Carbon doesn't seem to be for everything or everyone, but I hope Enve gets this sorted out. I think we need companies to push, even if they sometimes push in the wrong direction. Thanks for putting yourself in their path!
I agree they aren't worth the money. Its the 1 cracked rim= carbon is useless in DH. Trek, Specialized, GT, all use it very successfully. Carbon will break, just less frequently than aluminum.
When they work they are the best wheels on the planet.... when they work!
We have demo Enve wheels going round New Zealand at the moment, Downhill to Road, and no one has managed to break one, the rep brought (A DH wheel) it into our store and aside from a few scratches, it looked as perfect as the brand new one in his other hand.
If I had the money, I'd buy a set, no problems.
But howcome these top level WC riders ride narrow rims like the deemax ultimates without issues? I guess it's only a problem for us slow riders haha
Spank actually narrowed their race rims to 28mm external from 30+. Everything is a tradeoff, and the initial turn in is more vague when on a more squared off tire (wider rim.) What pros need is familiarity. If they have used it for a while with success, they will keep using it until the new feel is intuitive.
Except that, Enve's is cheating with claimed weight on $2888 wheelset, that's unacceptable!!!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSl_aDe4XvQ
BUT.
A similar combo with Flow EX / CX rays / Chris king hubs would come in at ~1815g. I'm sure the stiffness cannot be compared, but still, you could get the Flow EX wheelset for approx. 750€.
I've been running a Flow EX on CX rays / Chris king on the front for a whole DH season and could not fault it... but no carbon bling, and the stiffness is probably below what can be observed with the Enve rims. But at this price the choice was easy for me!
So, any idea what yours are actually built to?
Disc side I have built it up to 150kgf (yes, 150), it has been holding up just fine for one full DH season, you just have to make sure that the tension is really even across the wheel ( half a mark of fluctuation across all spokes on the TM1 tensiometer). Chris King hubs can really take a lot of tension before failing.
Had a really big crash with the rim, not even a slight wobble. Really happy with it.
I previously ran mavic 729's (over 12 flat spots throught it's 2.5 year lifespan) so i was a little worried to go with such a lighter weight rim. zero complaints, hands down the best feeling wheel set iv ever ridden. i dont know if id go any higher on the spoke tension but it seemed to me 125/120KgF is perfect
They always tend to quote a bit low, though.
I have been running carbon bikes, inbis HD and it is very tough. Some bike makers have carbon down and its getting better all the time, but enve's BS here is a little thick.
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/9079805
Stiff (more than a Flow EX), wide (no burp at 1.9b, the only rim that never burped for me as tubeless setup), light, relatively cheap ($140 a rim). Would buy again even if the price tag was double.
Are you kidding? How can you call this a DH rim? What size tires are you planning on running with them?
My XC race rims are wider than that.
And lighter.
Keep in mind, I'm a big fan of carbon but these are just stupid.
www.sicklines.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21262
www.sicklines.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21263
www.sicklines.com/weights/mtbwheels
While I don't think Brad was very enthusiastic about carbon wheels, I also don't get the impression that Brad wanted to make a point that the wheels are bad. There may have been some unlucky confluences at work. And, as I mentioned earlier, the initial crack is worrisome. However, I think you can get those on aluminium rims as well. It would be nice to see some longer term testing of the ENVE wheels.
Brad must fail to understand that Enve pays to have their product "reviewed" and publicized on a website like this.
The article appears to bear a good balance of showcasing the manufacturer as well as the experience of the product.
The comment section is a disaster.
While I consider this review interesting and useful, it can be more valuable in the context of other users. Frankly some guys are tough on equipment. I have never wrecked a wheel, even at 220lbs, while lots of lighter guys destroy them regularly. It is regretable that enve took so long to replace the rim, which demonstrated a lack of confidence in the outcome (perhaps of the review or maybe the rim itself) , at least to me. I think this, rather than the explanation was more problematic; because a 5 year warranty that takes months to honor isn't worth much.
Hopefully PB will have additional reviews on these wheels. A follow up under the circumstances, to confirm or compare results would be informative.
tw
ill keep my aluminium Generator Race(nukeproof)...
"The rims initially delivered for testing were from a batch of lighter weight pre-production prototypes developed for smoother World Cup courses and lighter weight racers."
Kinda makes the testing results "moot" IMO...
Anywho, unless your racing or like to spend extra money, it doesn't seem there is a justifiable value to the consumer.
with that said, whoevers decision it is to leave out that stuff, SHAME ON YOU.. i know your probably just trying to keep another shit storm from happening, but the people deserve to know the truth.. esp, when these rims are that pricey.
Brad, I am assuming you have never broken ANY aluminum components? Saying "carbon sucks, they'll get over it someday" suggests you are not the appropriate tester for these products. It is REALLY unprofessional. It also suggests you were looking to make sure they fail- possibly indicative of line choice from a rider who is quite experienced and should know better.
When he got there, they saw the rim and said "This is the first cracked rim we've seen."
I wonder if that's what they say EVERY time they see a cracked rim? Like a prostitute that says "Oh baby, you are the first man I've ever been with." to make you think her goods are better than they really are.
What if this crack had happened during a race run or had not been seen and the wheel exploded would it have still been edited out? Why just to kiss enve's arss?
I think including (the pictures) is totally valid and should be placed back into the article to show what can happen in the event of damage. This is one of the inherent dangers of carbon parts and should be documented. Knowingly or not the damage caused it to exploded and that could happen to anyone at anytime and that should be seen by all!
Pinkbike grow some balls and put them back in...Thank you
You refuse to accept that Brad cracked a rim under normal circumstances AND you refuse to accept that this was NOT a prototype set of rims - Brad says they weighed more, not less which does not compute with Enve's statement about the prototypes weighing less.
Sure, Brad has not made a secret of his hatred for carbon, but when he writes that he cracked a rim, Enve has lots to lose, so out come their spin doctors.
Sure, I'm sitting half-way across the world, but I can smell the bullshit - and it ain't coming from Brad.
Would you accept a test review from Car and Driver, on a mustang from a test driver who states he hates Fords, especially after redlining the engine then complaining about sketchy Ford engine quality? Its laughable. The test is not unbiased. I have no dispute that the rim failed, but this failure is in contradiction to the proven reliability of the majority of carbon products. I hope ENVE sues for slander with BS that is reported by Brad. Its unprofessional.
I find it laughable that you make such a comment seeing you are SO BIAS You are a hypocrite carbon wheels have not been in the field long enough or in high enough volumes to even make that statement and you base it solely on your nut swinging love for your carbon wheels. Please let go of Enve's nuts and you might find other uses for your hands besides jerking them off on the interwebs...sues for slander really? you are amazing stick to riding your bike
@Circes: Firstly, I hate the "video/pics or it didn't happen" crap - how about a bit of trust for your fellow man? And secondly, if you look at immature's profile, you'll see he at least runs Enve rims and doesn't seem short of cash. He's not some 16 year trying to big-note himself by hoping readers will think he has a) the money for Enve rims, and b) what it takes to crack two of them.
Articles such as this reflect the immaturity, hype, subjectivity, and general childish unevolved nonsense that makes up 90% of mountain biking content.
Saw one ENVE DH wheelset at Whistler this season (many months ago) and watched the rear rim fail after only about a week of riding in the park. The rider got an alloy rim and continued to ride the rest of the season. Either the rider was happy to fork out $999 for something that in my opinion wasn't really his fault, or ENVE are liars. Also, considering how few consumers actually use these wheels for DH, even a few failures spell bad news.
Another point is carbon fibre in raw form is relatively cheap so I can't justify a company that moulds it to a certain shape and call it the best thing since sliced bread and bang a price tag of £3000 on it!! Ridiculous.........
People CANNOT ride cracked carbon. It lost its structural integrity. Any time a bike makes a "Pop" sound it should be inspected. That just seems to make sense.
I guess the important people agree there is liability with Brad's crap.
A years trouble free running for me!
I doubt the tester would even want to try a product after 2 failures. Its a pain in the ass and possibly dangerous.
The interview with the syndicate mechanics indicated they went through way fewer carbon wheelsets than aluminum over the course of the year, but they did bust them, just less often.
From the review: "We took the ENVE wheels to the proving grounds of Whistler Bike Park for some high-speed lift-accessed riding over rocky terrain. One of the fastest runs of the day had a large G-out compression mid-run, bottoming the suspension and causing the bike to emit a strange "popping" sound. Nothing was immediately noticeable, but upon inspection at the bottom of our run a crack was clearly visible that ran down both sides of a spoke hole. We presume that an aluminum rim would have at least had a large dent, if not a massive flat spot from such a harsh compression."
Now it was just a green run? Whether it was green or not, the line choice was poor, and the wheel was subjected to forces beyond its yeild point. This is not an issue of whether carbon is strong enough, as it has been demonstrated many times over that carbon tolerates more stress than aluminum. In the video above, the aluminum wheel dented at much less force than the carbon one, which has been demonstrated in numerous components over the past few years.
Nice sensationalistic review. I am cuious to see how many fail in long term reviews.
ill stick with deemax+ hope pro2 hubs
I don't own any ENVE products. I don't have a desire to own any ENVE products. I think they are overpriced, and they use American labour to make carbon products, which is not the best or most cost effective way to make them. These wheels are too expensive, too narrow, and I prefer to lace my own wheels. There are more cost effective ways to get where these wheels are.
The issue I have is a reviewer who states clearly he thinks carbon is inappropriate for the riding he does. He presented sensationalistic pictures to perpetuate carbon myths (they shattered only after being used following a clear failure. This was the end of their service life. Nothing blew up, nor did the rider suffer a super crash from the problem. The product simply cracked in a n uneventful way.) He felt the need to sensationalize the problem, and continue using them AFTER they already failed, to prove his opinion that carbon is dangerous and weak. That cracked rim is the least horrible wheel failure pic I've seen in a long time.
The fact that Brad's writing and picture selection was "heavily" edited shows his employers feel his work was unprofessional, and Mike had to post disclaimers at several places in the responses. That is highly telling of what even Pinkbike thinks of his work. You may all think I'm a troll, but its writing like this that feeds the internet rumours regarding various products. How many times will Brad's pictures be linked to to show what happens in a carbon wheel failure. Its sad that he feels it is OK to do this. It'll be interesting to see if Brad is allowed to do the followup review after this, and secondly, if he does, how heavily his work will be edited.
I guess it is lost on a handful (2-4 people based on the negative props) of people that I used the same writing style as brad to provide my "honest unbiased" review of his work. Because I said its crap, it must be true, just like brad, rather than a glowing review. Because he had this one failure, everything he writes must be crap as well (I have seen a few other poorly written reviews by him, but this one has a catastrophic unprofessional fail where he shattered and blew up under the pressure.)
Am I not able to report my opinions as fact just like brad? These social experiments are really quite interesting. A bunch of kids who don't own anything carbon support brad, but the more mature people who have had good experiences are neg propped when his biases are pointed out. The only argument I heard in response was name calling. No facts, no verified failure rate comparisons, which cannot be provided, as the reality is carbon products when used as intended have lower failure rates.. I accept this will be lost on those who neg prop me, but I know I was unreasonable in my posting, as I did that on purpose. Saying something repeatedly, with more force does not make it true. Maybe one or two kids will reflect on this and get it. Maybe not.
This article is an accurate and useful account of what actually happened. If it got your panties in a bunch after you personally spent $$$ on an overly expensive set of wheels, it is your problem, and not a good reason to spew incessant bullcrap about the author.
This rim was replaced under warranty. The Author claimed all carbon components will fail in DH. Many other have had the opposite experience (more report benefit compared to the number who report problems- myself included.)
I post my first hand experience with examples from the article regarding brad. I write a scathing review, the only truthful kind apparently, and get called out on BS, which is exactly what I called Brad out on.
Notice how Brad stopped posting? I wonder if he was directed to be more professional by his employer? What do you think Brad? He can only neg prop now, or get his fanboys to defend him.
How do the stereotypes feel on you now fat rider of the prairies?