Gwin's custom Specialized Demo utilizes a 440mm chain stay length, 19mm longer than stock. The black and blue paint will be production for 2014.
Many racers would have been quite happy with 20th and 6th place finishes at the first two World Cups of the 2013 season, but Aaron Gwin isn't just any racer, and he is likely not exactly over the moon about the 8.9 and 4.1 second gaps to first at Fort William and Val di Sole. His much publicized move from Trek World Racing to Specialized during the off-season left many fans wondering how he would take to the Demo and its drastically different geometry from the Session that he dominated on. And whether the bike is the reason or not, his results this season have paled in comparison to the consistent battering of the field during the previous two years. Have his main competitors stepped it up? Is it the bike? Dominance can't last forever, just ask McGrath, Rossi, Schumacher, or any athlete that once ruled the roost, but the common theme among these phenoms is that they are constantly searching for an advantage that will keep them at the top. Gwin is no different, and Specialized is happy to oblige.
Val di Sole saw Gwin compete aboard a large-sized Demo instead of his usual medium, with him saying that he was looking for a longer, roomier bike, and his race run was much closer to the winning time than the margin at Fort William. This weekend's World Cup on the fresh track in Andorra sees him go back to a medium frame, but with a prototype rear end that adds 19mm of length over the bike's stock 421mm figure. That means that his custom Demo runs a 440mm chain stay length, pretty damn close to the 439/441mm adjustable length of his previous race bike. The fact of the matter is that the very large majority of the downhill bikes being raced on the World Cup circuit perform at a level that even an insanely fast local pro
wouldn't be able to push to the limits, but the key for many of the top racers is to simply be on a machine that they feel 100% comfortable aboard, that often means personal tweaks that the average fan wouldn't be able to take advantage of. ''
Like other athletes in the past, he's been testing various lengths, and 440mm is what he likes at the moment, for that track,'' Jason Chamberlain, Senior Design Engineer at Specialized, told us. ''
When it comes to DH, we are happy to provide whatever setup an athlete needs to win.'' This leads to speculation that we may still see Gwin switch back to the shorter length for other courses. Interestingly, both Troy Brosnan and Mitch Ropelato still prefer the stock 421mm length.
The added length is found in the chain and shock stays, while the link and yoke remain the same. Travel now sits at 215mm.
The extra length at the back of Gwin's bike comes courtesy of both longer chain and shock stays, with his Demo still using the same magnesium link and shock yoke as his previous rig. The longer stays also mean that his bike's travel is bumped up to 215mm, with Chamberlain explaining that ''
the spring rate and damping are tweaked to adjust for the tiny increase in leverage ratio.'' While the additional 19mm obviously means that the bike sports a longer wheelbase, all other geometry remains the same.
Will the new, longer rear end propel Gwin to the podium? We wouldn't be surprised, to be honest, given that he has likely spent the gap between the Fort William and Andorra races testing the new parts extensively, and him choosing racing the revised bike surely means that he feels happy with the changes. And a happy racer is a fast racer, isn't it?
www.specialized.com
Haha
but you will also have to sift through the sea of BS as well. watch out!
wwooaahhhhh....
:P
The Syndicate is doing something similar with their headsets to lengthen their effective toptube & wheelbase as far as possible.
lengthening the chainstays, increases the wheelbase, but also makes the bike less agile.
moreover, the longer back-center puts more weight to the front, which is already accomplished by the high steepness of the track. when a rider has a far back attack position, he needs longer cs in order to bring more weight to the front...but that applies in medium steepness tracks. in high steepness tracks, the center of gravity, does that for the rider...by applying more force to the front...
so when in steeeepy tiiiight tracks, you need:
1.long wheelbase
2.short chainstays.
specialized did a wrong move...the demo would be fine for this track...
a perfect track for the gt...432cs for agility and 1230wb for stability...probably will win...
i am not a professor my friend and diddn't imply that the bike itself will win...gee is a huge factor
what i was trying to indicate, is that the gt bike, has the perfect geometry for this track!!!!
how much a bike is affecting winning or losing a race, for some tenths of a second, isn't measurable...
we are just saying theorethical bullshit in order to have some fun
Yours?
Just measured the back end on my Konig, and that is short as hell, and it's 2 or 3mm longer than a Demo. And I think the back end is too short on my bike. Good move for the big S in my opinion. Clearly the Session is a better bike, so why not copy it? All they need now is to change the crappy Horst link to Split Pivot, sorry, I mean ABP that Trek stole from DW, and they'll be back at the top of the podium!
The short back end makes it more playful and easier to manual, but it also makes it unstable at high speed. I'd love to have some custom dropouts made for mine that extend the back end by 20-30mm and slacken the HA a touch, just to use for the three days a year when we have races over here. Because my bike is great fun for messing around on, but when you start pinning it down a hill it's not ideal. Its not worth buying a real DH bike for three days a year though.
You can be sure the big S will capitalise on this anyway. I bet there is a limited run "Gwin Edition" or similar next year. You get the longer back end and some "GWIN" on a USA flag background stickers for your extra $300 over the standard trim. Or maybe the Ohlins shock will also be Gwin edition only and the price will be hiked $1000 over stock.
I'm all for it.
Hahaha....ever notice how the people who have never really done anything are constantly talking about all the things they've done?
Dont worry man, I'm sure all the designers and engineers @ Specialized, Giant, Trek, Santa Cruz, etc are telling 14 year olds on Pinkbike they don't know what they're talking about too.
It's not just you...f'n loser.
Some people here have made offensive remarks towards you, I know you're a good bloke who knows a thing or two. You may well be right about the front end of the Demo being relatively short. That could be why Gwin went large.
Who cares anyway, just speculation. One thing is for sure, Gwin isn't the man he used to be and I for one hope he bites the shit sandwich again tomorrow and Hill brings home the bacon with someone else cool in second.
If anything he's the offensive one. He also has zero idea what he's going on about as anyone who's been around bikes for more that 5 minutes will be able to tell you that a Demo has a longer front centre (god knows why he keeps mentioning top tube?) than 90% of the DH bikes on the market. Gwin went to a large because he was looking for stability and front grip and had no other quick fix. He's now on the right size bike again but with better weight distribution.
heh as for my way of seeing things you hit the nail on the head. I know that using the same chainstay length for all sizes is economical - let's skip that. If cs length is so important, then it would vary between sizes, at least on XC racing bikes that evolve in the right direction for at least 10 more years than DH bikes. So they would sort it out by now. When riding the bike in normal stance, a 200cm tall brother will have his hips few cm further out towards the rear end than a shorter 170cm bloke.
So in theory, if the difference in reach between S and L frame is up to 4" then the CS length should differ like half of an inch or more. Eventual rear wheel travel increase would be irrelevant as shocks are shimmed differently for different sizes anyways.
I always enjoy arguing with you Jaame whether it is agreeing ir disagreeing
I read in Mountain Biking UK magazine that they predict a lot of other companies will follow the lead of Norco and start to adopt different sized rear ends too. I also read that they predict 650b will kill off 26" in two years on mid travel bikes... and clearly that isn't going to happen.
-Criticism of the Demo.
-Criticism of Gwin.
-Criticism of short chainstays.
-Criticism of 650b and 29".
-"Looks like a Session"."
Not disappointed.
Example: You see, living proof that all people are stupid in one way or another
And....I do think these things should be ironed out during the offseason. No excuse.
ZING!
images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ridemonkey.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D114060%26amp%3Bd%3D1373529799
PR translation: We will do whatever it takes to make us not look like a bunch of idiots.
"Interestingly, both Troy Brosnan and Mitch Ropelato still prefer the stock 421mm length."
Remember Troy is ahead of Gwin in the WC standings right now.
desperate times call for........
you know the line.
trying to salvage the season and this MASSSIVE pr blunder are all that is on specialized and gwins mind right now.
how to get the egg off their faces...
what a fiasco.
kinda reminds me when js7 went to jgr and fell flat on his face, making the bike and him look real bad.
is the gwin era already over?
and where did they test this new edition of the demo? laguna? skyline? elsinore? the kamloops bike ranch?his driveway?
did he even get to test this edition on a real track/terrian?
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I don't think this will turn out like Rossi Ducati did, the red monster really is that bad and nobody (except Casey Stoner) has the balls to pin it and be damned. Gwin's just got to get his eye back on the ball as Gee, Greg, Stevie, Brook and Sam are not going to wait for him.
www.pinkbike.com/u/mattwragg/blog/Tested-Stumpjumper-FSR-29-S-Works.html
www.pinkbike.com/u/mattwragg/blog/First-Look-hlins-TTX-Rear-Shock.html
www.pinkbike.com/u/richardcunningham/blog/Push-Industries-Air-Volume-Tuning-Kit-for-FoxTrek-DRCV-Forks-and.html
www.pinkbike.com/u/mikekazimer/blog/Video-Specialized-Racing-at-Val-di-Sole.html
and it goes on FOR EVER
Protour (Jul 14, 2013 at 7:0
I should race the World Cup circuit based upon what I've typed on the Internet, that's brilliant. the pedaling issues on the demo are a slight disadvantage, but the short chainstays on the demo are what is really holding Gwin back
Protour (Jun 21, 2013 at 22:44)
The Demo doesn't needs adjustable chainstays, it just needs longer chainstays. And it needs them by the next World Cup race next month! Keep the short chainstays on the Status freeride bike but for World Cup DH the Demo needs longer chainstays, and especially for Arron Gwins forward leaning style, as described above by fr33riding. With Specialized resources they should be able top get a new chainstay made by the next race that's an inch or so longer and I'm going to be very disappointed as a Gwin fan if they don't come through. As far as I'm concerned Specialized has already cost Gwin 2 likely World Cup wins by not having him adequately prepared for the season with proper testing and keeping him on the same bike is going to make for a really long, painful summer in Morgan Hill, and not just from the increased heat of global warming. The brand has taken a hit but it's not to late to learn, improve, innovate, and adapt. It's also not to late for Gwin to win the overall. It would be a challenge with Gee's lead but if Gwin could get back on a bike that fits his style and get back his old dominating form anything is possible
"I think Specialized could put longer chainstays on the Demo without too much marketing embarassment."
"Gwin will have longer chainstays, he will start winning again, and I will take full credit. Deal with it."
and If Gwin does start winning again then protour must be god.
its already been stated somewhere on here.. but im seriously wondering why he didnt mess with this in the off season. even if mr levy says its hard to replicate WC simulations on anything else (another comment on here), aaron is the top of his class in the WC right now (next to gee) and to say he couldnt ask spesh to find him a track to practice on that would simulate WC conditions is a bunch of BS.. if he can get a custom rear end made, he can find a damn track to practice on in the off season (even if it requires traveling across the pond)
/rant
I think Norco (and some others possibly) have been doing it right increasing the chainstay length as sizes get larger in the range. No one wants an extra large bike with a rear- centre exactly the same as on a x small bike. Doesn't make sense.
Guess he's trying to turn it into a Session then?
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This is an interesting move from Spesh, whether they admit to it or not this will be seen by many as a mea culpa, admission by default that the Demo is not as good as it could have been and never was. It's kind of a marketing nightmare for Spesh, not only was the Demo 'worse' than the Session, it was so much worse that to give the fastest rider on the planet even a chance of winning, they have to make it more like the Session. Bet they didn't bank on this when they gazumped Trek.
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Of course their lack of testing and proper training is really why Gwin hasn't won a world cup yet, but no way are they going to turn round and say 'we lost because we've been sat on our ass for six months,' Mike Sinyard would kill them.
fullbug - you have just proved my point about the Gwin/Spesh fanboys perfectly haha
Thanks! You're the best.
-sam
PS. there should also be a poll about who will win this weekend.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/5637645
www.pinkbike.com/photo/5637492
I mean, I'd bet there've been some seriously long hours worked this month over there and if Gwin doesn't perform well this weekend there'll probably be plenty more sleepless nights.
Neggie?
There are so many other factors that could be influcencing Gwins results. Firstly the lack of proper off season training (he said it himself he didn't really ride anything rough), his over confidence/arrogance and potentially even the Fox suspension and the way it works with the Demo. I am not saying Fox suspension is crap before anyone jumps on that but maybe the suspension characteristics of Fox just dont match well with the Demos geometry. All the other riders are on Rock Shox and seem to be pulling in good results. The bike certainly isn't holding Troy back and Sam last year was regular top 5 on a comeback season. Also reading forum threads and reviews etc most people have switched to Rock Shox suspension on the bike as it just seems more suited to the bike.
Specialized. Why doesn't anyone we poach like our bikes?
They copped a lot of shit and criticism... and guess who ate their words. Those same people who thought they'd never win under a different manufacturer.
However, stating that a 2x WC champ has his head in his arse just because of a 20th and 6th place finish on a new bike, qualified you for my first reply. You're welcome
i hope he does pull his finger out & start winnig again because allthough i dont like gwin Im a hugh specialized fan !!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNNhFvgWlq0
As for the Rossi, Schumacher comment well I get what you were trying to say but you can hardly compare them to Gwin seeing as he has ONLY won 2 world cups championships and they have 7. Anne Caroline Chausson is the closest person you can compare to those to due to her absolute dominance back in the day!
Another damn struggled Worl Cup race!
How busy can we make this design? THIS BUSY
Also, Gee is using Saint system and has been giving him good results, so to one brake to another, or to say one is performing better than the other, isn't really comparable, rather it's based more on actual sponsorship/team. Gwin defo didn't want to drop Fox though, that's for sure.
If i were him i'd be like "TOLD YOU BITCHES!"
but i don't have class like protour.... wait
Nonetheless, I am impressed. Gwin has the boys at Spesh doing circles around him.