Innovation of the Year Nominees
"Clever" is often confused with "creative." We anticipate clever. Clever drives the string of peer-powered improvements the industry feeds upon. Creativity is a more uncertain and risky path. To inject a fresh idea into the mainsream, to present a product that has yet to be accepted by the sport's elite, to overturn convention - those are the attributes that define the innovator.
Our three nominees for Innovation of the Year sprang forth from very diverse brain trusts. Specialized Bicycles (no surprise there) got the nod for their WU double-articulating dropper seatpost that retracts the saddle to the angle preferred by downhill competitors. That was an easy choice.
PB's second candidate rocked the industry like an earthquake. Darrell Voss' Nail'd R3act rear suspension looks and operates like no other. Beginning with an unapologetic revival of elevated chainstays, his kinematics fly in the face of convention, but the pedaling performance of his ridiculously long-travel design defies argument.
Our third nominee hails from Switzerland. BMC's new Speedfox cuts a conservative profile that belies a different take on the mid-travel trail bike. Its Trailsync dropper seatpost is linked to the shock's low-speed compression control. Raise the post and the shock is switched to the "firm" setting. Lower the post and it automatically switches to "open" mode. It's a simple concept that transforms the trail-riding experience.
Why it's Nominated: It could be argued that dropper seatposts were not invented for descending. They were invented for climbing, to reduce the time and the suffering required to get to the next descent. BMC's Trailsync embraces that reality by coupling the action of its integrated dropper post with the shock.
Trailsync debuted on BMC's 120mm-travel Speedfox 01 29er, and it breaks a number of rules. For starters, the dropper mechanism is integrated into the seat tube. It's a dedicated system. The dropper's mechanical stop is dirt simple: a spring-loaded pin that indexes into one of three holes in the post. And, the shock's remote compression dial is linked to the seatpost, not the handlebar-remote lever. If that sounds complicated, it isn't.
Trailsync reduces complexity, mechanically and for the rider. It offers the three most useful saddle heights with a resounding click: fully extended; an intermediate position, one inch lower; and completely dropped. There is never any confusion, because the post is linked to the shock, and the handlebar remote lever only operates the post. The result is a one-touch lever that makes the bike do exactly what you want at the precise moment when you need it.
From the First Ride: | Trailsync is like a gateway drug. It's so easy to get used to and in only one ride, you'll want more. Its action is instant, and the loud "thwack" sounds it makes at full down and topped-out modes leave no question that the saddle and rear suspension is exactly where it needs to be. I began to use the dropper lever almost as much as my shift lever. —RC |
Why it's Nominated: We're all accustomed to how a dropper post typically works - depress a lever and the seat can be dropped vertically, remaining in the same orientation for the entire stroke. It's a different story with Specialized's Command Post WU. The saddle clamp is articulated, so that the seat tilts backwards as it retracts (up to 14 degrees). When it's up, your bike pedals in the classic cross-country position. When its down, you descend in the configuration you'd choose for DH. Gravity riders stay low and well off the back when dropping into steep chutes, and having the saddle lined up with your body in dicey situations can afford a substantial measure of control when it's needed most.
You will soon be able to have your own WU for around $425 USD, as long as your seat tube accepts a 34.9mm post. The cable-actuated mechanical internals offer 14 indexed stops and its travel is 115 mm, slightly less than Specialized's ubiquitous 125mm-stroke Command Post. That said, Specialized advertises the WU at 150, claiming that the tilting mechanism has the effect of greatly extending the dropper's stroke. Measuring from the saddle's sit-bone area, the WU supports that claim. With riders demanding more and more travel from their posts, Specialized's post could make it possible to get around frame design constraints by requiring less room to provide the same effective amount of seat drop.
Bottom line for the WU is that enduro has pushed development to the point where trail bikes are closing in on the descending performance of DH bikes. Specialized has invented a dropper that puts the saddle where it needs to be to complete that task.
From the First Look: | I found myself wishing for more drop, but the WU was far more comfortable on the downs than a standard 125mm dropper.—AJ Barlas |
Why it's Nominated: "Suspension damping is friction, and while some damping is essential, any amount of friction is going to slow you down." The words belong to designer Darrell Voss, who thought it was ridiculous that bike makers were using damping forces to mitigate any number of ills related to pedaling feel, ride height, brake dive and bad frame design. Voss maintained that bikes would roll faster and pedal more efficiently with suspension kinematics that favored drastically reduced suspension forces.
Clearly, Voss and the bicycle industry were on different paths. While he was fleshing out a proof-of-concept suspension design, elite-level enduro and DH racers were upping their spring rates and cranking in their dials to the point where an average rider could barely move the O-rings of a pro racer's bike.
Voss went public with his invention in 2017, partnering with Polygon and Marin. His R3act suspension could not have looked more alien - a large monostay swingarm that terminated on a tubular sliding element, hinged to the frame. By comparison, the slender aluminum control links that drove the shock and established the suspension's kinematics were dainty. Polygon's Square One - a 180mm-travel all-mountain trail bike was first to market, and it was scoffed at by influential members of the media, most of whom had cut their teeth on more conventional (one might even say, "inbred") enduro machines.
The proof, however, was in the riding. As promised, Voss' novel design pedaled as well or better than its most-respected contemporaries - and all the while, its incredibly smooth suspension followed every contour on the trail. One by one, the critics were silenced. If there were remaining doubts, the success of Polygon's R3act powered DH prototypes under Tracey and Mick Hannah put them to rest.
From the Review: | This Polygon has to be one of the most charismatic and contradictory bikes of the last decade, and how it performs matches that description as well. It's a hard bike to pin down given that it pedals with the efficiency of a decent trail bike but possesses downhill rig descending capabilities...—Mike Levy |
Two wildly different takes on the neoclassic dropper post and a rear suspension design that defies contemporary logic. Judged by the criteria set forth in the first paragraph, PB's three nominees easily qualify as innovations in the most creative sense. They break convention, divide popular opinion and provide fresh, creative solutions. But, which is the most innovative?
I haven't seen any other people doing so, but I long ago started leaving the saddle screw not fully tightened, so I can tilt it a bit by hand, then go back to climbing position just by sitting in the tip. Makes a difference to me, the back of the saddle doesn't catch in the pants anymore and support/push with inner legs is much better
I rode this thing and it's very friggin' awesome. I went back and deleted all my posts where I derided the WU. I had to eat crow.
People get too stuck on the numbers (e.g., 150mm effective drop, blah blah), but you just have to ride it and realize that you're trying to get the rear of the saddle to get out of your way; if the 150mm applies to how much the REAR of the saddle drops, then it doesn't matter what the rest of the saddle is doing. That, or you aren't in proper riding position if you're concerned with what the tip of your saddle is doing on a steep pitch.
Reminds me of the early-2000s computer wars, where the only metric people were concerned about were how many megahertz your CPU ran at. Who gives a flying F!
Climbing: They detuned the compression setting as much as Fox would let them as I understand it and it is still too much LSC even when fully backed out (I also used a ShockWiz to confirm what I was feeling). You soon realize why it's climbing like a XC whippet is because it is just so efficient it is not relying on the shock to help with that side. Go on a smooth trail and there is no shock movement under power until you hit the tiniest bump then it freely moves.
Downhill: on the same trail system they've allowed us to build some jump lines and there is a reclaimed quarry section that is super rocky. Get it in there and it is super plush and won't break traction.
I live in the midwest where by no means do I need a 180 mm bike to ride the local trails. But then after riding it I thought now there's no downside to that much travel if it climbs better then the normal 140 mm bikes I ride there and monster trucks the downs. I got some others to check it out too and they were blown away.
Also seeing Tracy Hannah crash, be unconscious for a moment, get back on and still get 3rd at Worlds loosing by only 1.95 sec....what would she have won by without the crash? And crushing it on the same design during Crankworx Whistler almost 11 sec on Garbo and the Canadian DH...something is going on there. Mick and Tracey went from testing at Whistler to switching over to the new design with only weeks to go till Worlds, something special is going on to do that.
Wu Post ain't nothing to f$%k with
Who is it?
It is Randy, the marketing guy! We need to talk it is urgent!
Randy:
"Hey, it looks like people are not buying our Enduro Award Winning bike anymore because it can only take a 125mm drop. We need a 150mm. Make it happen!"
Engineer:
"Yes! The riders have been asking for it, we start working on the new frame design asap!"
Randy:
"Wait what?! We don't have the budget for that. All the assets have been located to e-bikes developing. Just figure something out so we have a 150mm dropper, ok?!"
Engineer:
"Sorry it is not possible"
Randy:
"Maybe we can make a tilting post like the one from that chinese e-bike commuter we have in the Innovate Lab"?!
Right!? We can say the rear drops to 150!!"
Engineer:
"Sure, but it is going to be by far the heaviest post on the market. It will only work on 34.7 and it will have too many pivots. Reliability may be an issue. the seat will be higher on the front and it wont be possible to seat on the post unless it is full extended. No sure why anyone would buy it."
Randy:
"Don't worry about sales...
We take care of that.
We work our usual magic with a press release and ads.
It is not really for aftermarket.
We just need for our bikes. Now.
Most of our costumers are beginners, they can't tell the difference.
They will read 150mm dropper and voila!
Engineer:
Yes sir.
I’ve just had a quick read through most of the comments here and it’s fun to see people’s thoughts and ideas. The comments from people who’ve had the opportunity to ride the R3act system are all consistent with each other and also with my personal experience. The comments from those who have not ridden it are also consistent with the questions I had myself when I was first introduced to it. I have not ridden the Marin. It wouldn’t surprise me if it had a little too much flex, but that is something quite basic to solve these days.
As for my experience. It’s the easiest bike I’ve ever ridden. You don’t need to know what you’re doing to set it up. Just set your sag and ride away. I use my Xquare 1 for all my road, XC and Enduro riding and never change anything. I love bike riding and that bike does 90% of my bike riding. Of course if you are a die hard XC racer the 180mm version is not for you. If you are a die hard downhiller you need a DH rig. This conversation is not about the specific models that have been released so far, but about the capability of the R3act system and for me it is the most exciting innovation of my career. Both by the stop watch and by the smile it puts on my face.
Heck of an endorsement considering you've been visiting National and World podiums in BMX and MTB since the mid 90's. Stoked to watch you and the whole UR team rip it up for the coming season.
i can see why it gets such middling reviews.
Part of the problem with reviewers and reviews is that when something comes along that doesn't fit their current world view, they have a hard time wrapping their head around it. If they don't spend enough time with it to understand how and why it works and how that relates to what they are used to or expect, they are less likely to provide a qualified point of view that does it justice.
1 positive pedal kickback
- suspension squats when you pedal (
has no positive effects and
therefore it
does nearly not exist.
2 no pedal kickback
- suspension squats because of the
Acceleration and weight shift
- chain doesn't influence the
suspension and other way round
3 negative pedal kickback
- suspension extends when pedaling
- does counter the weight shift
(Forces eliminate each other)
- suspension doesn't move under
pedaling
- pedal kickback
Whatever you chose it's always a compromise. What the react claims to be is impossible. With the react design you have no difference to what is possible with a conventional design. It's just that marketing stanchion what makes it different. The bike may be still pretty good when it's dialed correctly and well engineered.
There is a way to get rid of pedal pedal kickback and squating suspension under weight shift and that is a well designed damper system. But that's a different story...
Presumptuous.
I understand perfectly well, perhaps better than you.
Have you ridden the bike?
Do you understand how it works for personal experience?
No?
No I haven't ridden the bike. As I said it may work well.
I think you mention your personal experience with the shock or the placebo effect. Also your personal experience is based on what you are used to. Maybe you are used to bikes wich are poorly engineered. I don't say it's bad. I said the advertising is bad and wrong and I pointed out why.
Once again: the pedal kickback depends on the distance between the contact point chain/casette and chain/chainring. Actually how the distance changes trough the travel. The distance can get longer. It can get shorter or it remains the same. So now if you think you understand it better tell me the 4th magic way? I'm waiting
All i can image for a fourth way is maybe something canyon tried on the sender where you can disengage the drive train.
And maybe there's the perfect anti squat at the sag point and further in the trevel there's nearly no pedal kickback. That would be possible and a good solution but the rear axle path would be awkward and when you believe in commercials marketing it's a absolut bad thing. And for that the rear axle path needs to be a pretty extreme s-shape (like some santas have but more extreme)
The rear axle path it propably an arch with changing radius aka vpp.
And riding with virtually no damping? I've had the damping go out on my manitou travis DH fork back in the day, and its so out of control that its scary. Vital said this of the react design, but tried to hide it and cover up their experience of how poorly it handles.
There is a fourth.
There is either negative or positive or zero. Everything else is imaginary. But maybe that is too COMPLEX for you
In reality zero fvcks are given to what you think, I was just trying to enlighten you.
It baffled me the first time I ride it. How come a bike is so much plush when coasting yet so firm when pedalling? After some time contemplating, I think that variable suspension kinematics is one of possible explanations. Maybe @renanzendy @pagitomy could explain it better.
CMIIW, other bikes with some kind of pedal-induced variable suspension kinematics are Kona magic links and Tantrum.
Well, either that or the manufacturer has a way to harness unicorn and rainbow power.
Sorry yes, I was wrong about that and that is clearly genius. I mean tantrum and the konas. They both have a not fixed rear axle path. BUT if you remodel the polygon you will clearly see the axle path is fixed. Fact. Therefore it can't be that system. I say it again I don't want to say the bike is bad I just want to say that the marketing is bs. Wich is often the case and when you read the comments you see how well they did fool everybody.
@Eatsdirt
I try very hard to understand and research a lot.I even remodeled the design. You are the one who only defends his beloved bike and believes their marketing without questioning if they are right.
I know the concept of this system is hard to grasp on paper (and perhaps the related marketing effects this one way or another), I struggled with it to, however the proof is in how it works IRL. This is why I keep asking if you have ridden it.
Have you read what polygon says on there website? They don't even try to explain why it's better. They just say that it's better. I remodelled this design in catia ( professional 3D software) and there is nothing special about it. They literally just swapped a bearing for a stanchion. Yeti did it befor. Basically same design but with different anti squat.
Well personal experience is bad to argue with because everybody has their own. I argue with the facts. Eg. Bike radar says they feel the anti squat. You say you don't. What is right? Maybe it depends where and how you ride. As someone said that bike is designed for people who don't charge hard and don't have rugh trails but want more travel. People who go on long rides and want
a efficient bike but still a bike wich can handle big drops.
I never said something like the bike is "right" I said the whole time that the marketing behind this is wrong and I tried to proof it.
You defended polygons marketing and now you tell me it's wrong. Start thinking before you write something! I can tell you something: you don't figure out how stuff works by riding it. Have you figured out how a car engine works by driving the car? Same goes for bikes. You just feel more of the feedback.
I say this is not innovative because
1. There are already bikes with a stanchion (yeti)
2. There are already bikes with high anti squat. Maybe this bike has even more but that's still like saying a 2mm longer wheelbase is innovative.
You say it's innovative because
1. "It feels different " than what you are used to
This is right but doesn't say anything about that bike and if it's innovative or not
"You are the one who only defends his beloved bike and believes their marketing without questioning if they are right."
Just to clarify, so you don't get confused. Tantum: I did question it with a solid dose of skepticism. Then I rode it.
Get your shit together man.
Sorry I thought you wanted to say that the polygon has a similar design to the tantrum. I was wrong if you didn't want to say that
Now one more
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxJWjt3RTlM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxJWjt3RTlM
Wait until 2nd or 3rd gen to see how it evolves
Having experienced it and ridden it first hand, this will be a game changer. Of course there was always the initial comments and opinions as soon as it was released, even from myself when pulling the frame out the box for the first time. but not one to judge a book by its cover, the proof was in the riding. This does exactly as it says and is sold to do so in all the reviews. Having ridden one myself over a long period of time now, I was dubious to start with but it definitely doesn't feel like your slogging a 180mm trail bike around, the pedalling platform and efficiency is ridiculous compared to other reputable trail bikes currently on the market.
I think the real proof of the pudding was they Hannah's testing the DH version of the Naild back to back with their existing DH bike and both never went back since. The clock doesn't lie!
No. What about handling? Especially when you are jumping. How the bike reacts. Suspension is good for many things
When you don't feel the bumps anyway it doesnt matter what line you take
In some cases yes. Propably most of the time. But not when you take off and when you land. Because grip doesn't matter when you ride a straight line and jump
I thought the idea of a dropper was to move the seat out of your way. I drop mine but don't then sit on the seat. Why would you do that?
The BMC is a novel idea but I prefer to choose suspension settings and dropper post position independently
The Wu i great but it adds complexity. Also how many bikes have a 34.9 seat tube bar the latest Enduros?
The Bikeradar review of the Marin version of the Nail'd suspension was poor to say the least. Is the Plygon version flex proof?
Thank you to the brave ones, sleepless nights and countless disappointments so that maybe this time this one will work. When I look back to my very first bike when I was 3 and a half years old to the bikes that we can ride now, I am thankful for the innovators who never gave up even though there was sure to be many failures along the way.
I can personally only vouch for one of the innovated products as its the only one I've tried; Darrell Voss' Naild R3act suspension - The Polygon XQUARONE. The first time I heard that we were going to have a new bike and it would be a bit different I was thinking " oh dear ". I don't much like change, when it comes to parts on my bike or frames I'm not much up for changing things, I like to keep my old gloves, helmet, knee pads etc. So something as out there as the new Polygon was going to be a shock for sure.
Sure enough, I got to try the bike for myself, hesitantly'! I took the Morzine lift as far as it could go then continued on the bike riding up up and up. Anyone who really knows me knows that I hate riding uphills, yeah I ride up hills for training but I don't ride up hills for fun. I found that this was an easy way to get up the hill, I finally understood why people enjoyed riding up hills; the wind in your hair, sweat dripping down your face, legs burning, such a good sensation. Finally I have found a bike that minimized the struggle I felt riding up the hill, the platform stays the same whether you are on flat ground or hit an up hill, and the best thing was when you hit the single track with rocks and roots it wasn't such an intense struggle to giddy up over the obstacles, the rear end of the bike kind of moments over the terrain to create a smoother riding experience over the technical, single track, up hill riding.
I guess the most importan part for me in trail riding is the down part, never have I ever been on a bike I've enjoyed riding down that gets me up the hill in, at least, half a good mood. I guess I never understood climbing for hours up a hill to ride the same bike down.
When I was told my Xquareone had 8in of travel in the rear end I said “you can get stuffed" I ain't riding that up the hill. However, after riding it up ^^ and still having energy left in the tank, I had nothing left to do but test this bad boy on the downs. Man was I shocked, tbh at first I thought I had a flat tire, I literally pulled my bike over and felt for a flat ( very common I've since found out ) and nope, I still had full air pressure. I continued and realised I wasn't used to having this kind of traction in the rear, and it literally felt like my tire was sticking to the ground like I had a flat. I committed to jumps and drops and huge turns, like never before, I had the most amazing time that I've ever had on a trail bike. No wonder, with the suspension of a downhill bike its like being on one.
Out of the box I was shocked at the look of the bike, "oh dear" is exactly what I thought. Have you ever judged a book by its cover? A person by there looks? Then later realise that you have forgotten what they look like because the book was such an adveturous read? Or the person has a personality that shines like the sun!
The Xquareone has an adveturous personality and shines like the sun, I can't see what the bike used to look like I can only see how it makes me feel.
Tracey Hannah
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxJWjt3RTlM
Wait until 2nd or 3rd gen to see how it evolves
MTB with either manual or auto controllable, wireless, and 100% integrated:
Suspension, Seatpost, gearing, tire pressure, and geometry.
All of this technology exists already. Suspension controls like Scott's dual system, but controlled with servos. Remote seatposts already done by magura and now BMC, gearing XShifter or Di2, tire pressure ADAPTRAC or WhiteCrow hub, Geometry like Canyon shapeshifter.
The tire pressure hubs are big an heavy and would need advancements.
Inclinometer, Accelerometer, processor, servos, wireless control.
In its ultimate form the rider would just ride, geo/suspension/seatpost/gears/tire pressure would all adjust in real time depending on the angle and speed and size of bumps, even condition dependent possibly... thoughts?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxJWjt3RTlM
Wait until 2nd or 3rd gen to see how it evolves
I've been looking for user reviews, to compare with the amazing reviews it had on the media, but no luck
“The definition of genius is taking the complex and making it simple.”
― Albert Einstein
Still the engineers propably made a good job and get the best out of it. So it's still a very good bike.
The main purpose is that it's "different " and "new " and " innovative " so it's marketing bs