“So you just grab the rotor and push it towards the pad that’s dragging…”
“Wait,” I have to stop Jude right here. I’m sure he’s giving me a load of crap. “You
grab the rotor? You’re kidding me, right?”
The one thing everyone knows is that you never, ever touch your brake rotors. Doing so can transfer oil from your fingers to the rotor and from there, inevitably, to the brake pads on your disc brake, which, in turn, leads to weak braking power. So, surely, Jude Monica is feeding me a line of bullshit. We are drinking beer. In a bar. It would stand to reason.
Jude, however, is completely straight-faced.
“I’m 100 percent serious. I mean, you wash your hands first, of course, but you can use your rotor as a tool to stop your pads from rubbing the rotor. Really.”
Here’s the thing: Jude Monica knows disc brakes.
The guy has been working on them, as Magura USA’s technical service manager for…well, since roughly the very dawn of time. The guy lives and breathes disc brakes, which is why we’re sitting at the brewery, post-ride, talking about them—or specifically, talking about the two most common complaints he hears from mountain bikers while he’s out on the road: (1) My disc brake suddenly started rubbing in the middle of a ride; And (2) My brakes don’t have air in the lines, but they aren’t stopping with the same force anymore.
The grabbing a disc brake rotor thing, however, had me flummoxed. So I had Jude demonstrate it in the video above. My
Blair Witch filmmaking style notwithstanding (video production has a steep learning curve), it’s worth watching to see how Jude gets the job done. But I thought I’d add a bit of context here as well.
An Interesting Perspective on Rotor Rub There are plenty of reasons why your rotor may begin rubbing against the brake pads. Maybe you completely taco’d the crap out of your wheel…that’s always hard to miss. Or perhaps your rotor has warped. Or maybe you never set up your disc brake caliper correctly and the rotor has been rasping away since day one.
But we’re not talking about those situations here.
I’m talking about that moment, mid–ride, when your rotor suddenly starts rubbing consistently against one of your brake pads. By consistently, I mean a constant, slight dragging against one of the brake pads. If it’s an intermittent rubbing, it probably signals a bent rotor and, well, it’s time to either true the rotor or cough up the cash for a new one.
So in this case, let’s assume your rotor has begun a constant slight rubbing against one of your brake pads. If you’re like me, you probably rectify that particular problem by loosening the caliper’s two mounting bolts and realigning the brake caliper. It works. Jude, however, suggests that this approach often misses the point. After all, it’s not as if your caliper suddenly moved during the ride—those two bolts do a good job of keeping it rooted to your frame. What has shifted, however, are the pistons’ placement inside that caliper. The pistons, Jude argues, are what you want to manipulate—not the entire caliper body—and you can use the rotor to help you do that.
If you’ve ever removed your wheel and pulled the brake lever (bad idea, of course), you know the pistons and pads will advance into that rotor-less free space within the caliper and then you’re stuck having to pry the pads apart again.
Well, when you’re riding and you're cornering, your front and (especially) rear wheel can be shimmying about, from side to side, a hell of a lot more than you might suspect. Monica argues that your rear rotor can flex as much as 5 millimeters from side to side during a hard cornering moment over rough terrain (this varies depending on axle, wheel and frame stiffness). Anyhoo, if your wheel and rotor are shimmying from side to side during these micro-moments and you hit the rear brake, one of your pistons might be able to advance farther than normal. It advances and then it stays there. You get through that corner or really rocky bit of trail and, crap, now the rotor is constantly dragging against the pads on that side of your caliper.
Again, you can solve this issue pretty easily by re-centering the caliper itself, but Jude’s approach is to simply reverse what happened on the trail. He does that by determining which side of the caliper (inboard or outboard) is getting the rotor rub. Then, after wiping his hands on something clean, he pulls the rotor into the rubbing pad with one hand, then pumps the corresponding brake lever with his other hand. Doing this helps re-center, as it were, the pistons themselves within the caliper.
This procedure is not an exact science—Monica readily admits it’s more of a finesse move, but I’ve seen him do it and, yeah, it works on every brand of disc brake. Again, the guy has worked on more brakes than most of us have ever seen, so he didn't pull this maneuver out of the ether or his backside. It sounded crazy to me, but if you think about it, it actually makes sense. Or maybe it doesn’t make sense to you, in which case, just watch the video.
If, like me, you still freak out if someone gets within a few inches of touching your brake rotor, you can always do the rotor-grab maneuver while wearing clean latex gloves.
WHEN PADS GO BADA loss of braking power is usually the result of one of two things: air in the system or contaminated/glazed/worn brake pads. Air in the system is pretty easy to diagnose. Straddle your bike and, with the bike stationary, pull the brake lever. If the lever simply sinks to the handlebar, you’ve got air. If, however, you can feel the pads contact the rotor in the usual spot in your lever throw, you’re probably not dealing with air bubbles in the system. Instead, it’s probably your pads.
Pads are, no big revelation here, what brings friction and stopping power to the party. If your pads are glazed over, excessively worn or contaminated by road gunk, grease, oil, something-evil-and-slippery, you might as well be squeezing a couple of ice cubes against your rotor for all the good it’ll do you.
Maybe somebody (certainly not you, right?) tried to lube your chain with an aerosol lubricant and wound up dousing not only your drivetrain, but also your brake pads. It happens. For that matter, sometimes your pads pick up contaminants while your shuttling to the trailhead and your bike is riding on a hitch rack—crap sprays up from the road, gets on your rotor and—voila—you hit the trail with a honking brake that has gone weak and grouchy.
So, remove your wheel pull the pads from you caliper and take a look at them. If they are excessively worn (there’s less than 2.5 millimeters of pad left), toss them and get some new ones. Unevenly worn in a big way? Replace them and realign your brake caliper. Still plenty of pad material, but they are slick and glazed looking or darkened by some mysterious substance? We can work with that.
I’ve always used a rough (100) grit sanding paper, but Jude Monica recommends a sheet of drywall sanding screen (readily available at hardware stores). The mesh will rough up your pad nicely (giving you back your grip and bite) and, best of all, the layers of pad material you sand off will fall away through the sanding screen—so you aren’t just rubbing contaminated brake pad powder back into the pad itself. Nice. Jude recommends rubbing the pad in a figure eight pattern, to get an even sanding. You don’t want to take off much material here at all. You’re just scraping off the crappy surface layer.
Put your freshly surfaced pads back in the caliper where they belong. Before you toss in your wheel with its contaminated rotor, clean off the with a clean rag or paper towel soaked in isopropyl alcohol. If you’re persnickety (I am) use latex gloves. You’re going through the effort, you might as well do it right. To that end, some people skip the alcohol altogether in favor of automative disc brake cleaner. That stuff is nasty, but it works great. Definitely bust out the gloves and gobbles when you're using that stuff and do your best to not huff it, as I believe the label clearly states the fumes will eat holes in your brain. I think. It's nasty, we'll just leave it there. At any rate, once the rotor is clean and has had time to dry, slap the wheel back in. You’ll want to re-bed in your brake pads to get optimal performance out of them (that’s a topic in and of itself), but either way you’re going to be a hell of a lot better off than when your pads looked as if they’d been coated in Teflon.
Mate: 'Stand back, I read this article on PB'
Melts fingers on brake disc.
I use them at work for showing clients around new houses.
2nd reason: You have Sram (we changed the name but not the quality) Guides so the modulation will be lovely until you actually need to stop your bike. The shudder judder on the front brake is actually designed to let you know that your brakes are on, like the bumps on a road before you reach a roundabout.
Your avid/sram brakes don't work - unlucky your brakes were built on any other day.
I've had 3 pairs of Guides and I like them a lot. They seem more powerful than Shimano, but Shimano is definitely easier to bleed when the time comes.
How thick are your pads new?
I guess SRAM and I have some dysfunctional codependency thing....
-You don't use HOPE brakes.
-You don't use HOPE rotors.
Trying not to rant about how we've got Boost and 12 speed but not any dad-gummed floating rotors. Garsh durn it.
In addition, they may not be the solution to keeping the caliper piston situated as they will also push the piston/pads around just as easily.
Magura use to make full floating rotors for the original Gustavs but people would freak out at the rattling.
BTW, when they get play it is no concern at all from a danger concern and is how they work properly by allowing the friction area to expand and contract without warping the "carrier."
I like them a lot!
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2470140/Can-WD-40-cure-arthritis-Wacky-home-remedies-test-panel-doctors-new-TV-Health-Freaks---surprising-results.html
Disclaimer: Don't try this at home.
I thought the UK only had two seasons ?
Rain and Less Rain ?
Personally, I've had incredible luck with MT5 Maguras they are bleed free if you install them correctly, and I don't think I've ever had better power or modulation. My newest build I considered going with Zees, but after a long weekend of riding my MT5s, I ended up going with them again. (also, the MT5s with my shop discount were half the cost)
If you like to ride all the time and you aren't too fussy about setup (set and forget). Go shimano.
If you like rare stuff and like to play around with your setup (idealy more than riding) go Hope, Magura, Formula...
If you love troubleshooting and spending time in your garage, go Avid hydraulic.
Simple as that.
1/ you own SRAM/Avid brakes
2/ you drag the brakes and glazed the pads
I've had Hopes and Hayes before and Shimano are a million times better. Plys they use mineral oil so no more brake fluid.
I had Trail XO's and now Guide RS's.. absolutely bang on and I haven't bled them in 3 years (I prefer a spongy feel)
Shimano are sick, don't get me wrong. But they do bite a bit too quickly for the feel l like. It's like once the lever throws over the cam, BAM it hits you. Again. Very powerful.. but not my personal preference.
My Girlfriend has Hope Tech Evo 2 pot and my got those bastards are powerful. So I don't understand that hate toward them.
Bad news always travels faster it seems
1 finger and a 160!
you must be 50kg with a ripped 49kg finger
The old cheaper Juicy's and Elixirs.. had piston problems.. but I think they area lots better now! And yeah.. 3 years without a bleed.. I almost feel I Owe it to them to bleed them, even if it makes no difference at all! haha
Same - I bet the Hope camp will dis on my going Saints, but XT & Saint is all I've had since V-brakes died, have always been great to me.
I was either taken by propaganda or it really works, but I run the sintered metal pads, never saw pad material mentioned in article. Propaganda?
Mine only do a quick squeal when wet, dry for storage & I can pull it out & quiet if it hasn't seen a puddle before I pull up on the brakes.
--Do you know if the pad compound is a legit thing? I don't - I honestly went off an article here on PB I think.
blueliquidlabs.com/repairs/solving-that-brake-squeal
TLDR;
The stock o-ring between the two calipers halves can leak in cold weather, or just over time due to shrinkage from temperature, or machining tolerances on the o ring groove. You can replace it with a harder durometer version and solve the problem
1) Sanded and baked the pads in the oven. I've found all Shimano pads easily glaze. Propane torch worked on my XT's but my Zee's needed to be baked. They eventually glazed a bit after months of riding, a quick sanding fixed this.
2). It's extremely difficult to get the air out from behind the pistons. A little bubble can get stuck in there. I was never able get all the air out with the bleed block. Needed to extended the pistons almost to the point of popping out (need to be careful though because the pistons will pop out of the housing). Full bleed that way. Pushed the pistons back in, full bleed with the bleed block.
Two seasons later now and they still perform like a champ.
HOWEVER...I have had three sets total now, one Saint and and two XT, that were absolute nightmares to set up. I did eventually get all of them working fine but it took a couple of months in each case. Still can't say for sure what the problem was and if it was even the same problem in all cases. Now that's three sets out of probably 50, so i'm not complaining. It's just weird.
The science of tire cut would really be the most interesting!
I never reset a PM caliper with worn pads. I know PM is great for the OEM market but I always preferred IS. If you set an IS caliper up properly, it stays properly. No surprise it were the higher end after market brakes that were the last to make the switch. That said, if I need to reset a PM caliper I put a fresh pair of pads in, reset the caliper and then put the old pads back in.
I'm not convinced about the necessity of cleaning your bike. It takes time that's better spent riding . Sure the drivetrain needs love and the stanchions deserve a wipe, but really, what harm is the dirt on your frame going to do? On the other hand, I do believe cleaning could potentially cause damage to your bike. And indeed, splatter grease on your brake surfaces (rotor or rim).
youtu.be/HiL6uPNlqRw
99% of the time they are hardly capable to do any damage to painted surfaces or rubber seals. Just be sure to read what the label says first and stick to trusted products. Then you can spray it all over the place, it'll evaporate quickly.
DH bike has been sitting unused in a heated garage... yet the rear brake is pumped & dragging. A month ago it was fine, so frustrating.
Yet by Shimano's haven't been serviced for 2 years and work as good as new.
The only thing I'll buy from SRAM is a chain, thanks for the quick link guys!!
Then some other Pinkbike visitor advised me that this is not ideal as over time, water accumulates in the caliper so that if the brake gets real hot I could get a vapor lock and loose all my brake force. Now, I usually brake short and hard so rarely get the brake that hot but of course it seems to make sense what he said. The Magura manuals don't recommend a regular bleed. Do you agree with the manual or do you agree with the PB visitor that I should go through a full bleed every now and then?
Reason 2: Shimano made your brakes
Literally old avid bb7’s are more reliable and maintenance free than any current gen brake. And let’s be honest, bb7 are cheap garbage that couldn't stop a hamster on a tricycle.
People who know how to ride don't need no one modulating for them. But you would know, I guess...
...by the way, i have Guide RS brakes. Don't know much about trouble. On a 1000m descent in 15min. they are on the edge, but (unfortunately) this is rare.
You might be. First i've ever heard of a successful swap in that direction. HUGE downgrade in my experience...but I guess anything's possible.
Your hands will burn off after your first few braking points....
I suppose PB has a captive audience, myself included, but Christ this just feels like a waste of words
Still i un bolt the caliper.
Cause im lazy
Inquiring minds.
number 2: they're sram