Is there a difference between jumping a dual suspension and a hardtail?

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Is there a difference between jumping a dual suspension and a hardtail?
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flag AlexChenny
Posted: Jan 6, 2010 at 20:18 Quote
I've been riding a dual suspension for a while now, and got a hang of jumping one. but now that i'm going back to hardtail, i totally forgot how to jump hardtails.... i remember just pumping and the shocks and the rear suspension would shoot me up for the jump. but how should i jump hard tails??? one with low travel forks that doesn't shoot me up with the rebound. so advice would help!!!
flag gutkrencher
Posted: Jan 7, 2010 at 5:15 Quote
A hardtail is much better for jumps. The technique should be the same except you don't have to force the bike over the jump as much as you would with a full suspension frame due to the suck it gets off a takeoff. If anything a fs bike would really damage your jump riding technique, If you're riding proper jumps (not mud heaps with massive pedal gaps and flat landings) it should be pretty difficult to get yourself through the jumps on a full suss. Best thing to do is practise and ride some decent trails.
flag AlexChenny
Posted: Jan 7, 2010 at 8:01 Quote
ohhh alright thanks
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Jan 7, 2010 at 10:55 Quote
it really depends on the bike itself?

I'd agree that short travel single pivots and FSRs are hard work on the DJs

but some of the short travel virtual pivots like Santa Cruz Blur 4X and Banshee / Mythic Rampant actually "boost" your compression on the jumps, and can actually be a liability / handful until you learn how to ride them....

ANY bike, whether fully rigid, hardtail or full suspension, needs some time for you to get used to its "traits" Wink
flag doyouquaxu
Posted: Jan 7, 2010 at 18:16 Quote
gutkrencher wrote:
A hardtail is much better for jumps. The technique should be the same except you don't have to force the bike over the jump as much as you would with a full suspension frame due to the suck it gets off a takeoff. If anything a fs bike would really damage your jump riding technique, If you're riding proper jumps (not mud heaps with massive pedal gaps and flat landings) it should be pretty difficult to get yourself through the jumps on a full suss. Best thing to do is practise and ride some decent trails.

i'm definitely going to disagree with you on this one.

i've been riding djs for 6 years and can jump just as well on my long travel rigs than on short travel hard tail bikes specifically made for jumping. neither one feels like it has to be 'forced' to get over the jump, so maybe I'm just doing something right.

if you set up the suspension on your FS bike CORRECTLY, it will hang with the hard tails. I'm talking doing more to your rear shock than making sure you have the right spring rate and sag set correctly, i'm talking rebound and compression settings as well. when I first got my bike and took it out, i agree that it sucked on the jumps. after about a month of working on the settings, i was golden.

also, if anything, riding a fs rig has helped my style and those i ride with when we swap between fs and hard tail. its a blessing to have the rear wheel travel when going on a new line, trying a new trick, or the first couple of rides of the new season... things of that nature. i've ridden plenty of big jumps on a full sus and a hard tail, and can keep up with all of my buddies.

not to single you out because i don't know what work you've done to your suspension, but no one really puts the effort into setting up their shock and fork correctly. i've noticed this in the offroading world too, people spend thousands on shocks and then complain when they don't work right, when a $50 valving kit and some afternoons offroading will make it work like the pro's trucks.
flag gutkrencher
Posted: Jan 8, 2010 at 3:41 Quote
doyouquaxu wrote:
gutkrencher wrote:
A hardtail is much better for jumps. The technique should be the same except you don't have to force the bike over the jump as much as you would with a full suspension frame due to the suck it gets off a takeoff. If anything a fs bike would really damage your jump riding technique, If you're riding proper jumps (not mud heaps with massive pedal gaps and flat landings) it should be pretty difficult to get yourself through the jumps on a full suss. Best thing to do is practise and ride some decent trails.

i'm definitely going to disagree with you on this one.

i've been riding djs for 6 years and can jump just as well on my long travel rigs than on short travel hard tail bikes specifically made for jumping. neither one feels like it has to be 'forced' to get over the jump, so maybe I'm just doing something right.

if you set up the suspension on your FS bike CORRECTLY, it will hang with the hard tails. I'm talking doing more to your rear shock than making sure you have the right spring rate and sag set correctly, i'm talking rebound and compression settings as well. when I first got my bike and took it out, i agree that it sucked on the jumps. after about a month of working on the settings, i was golden.

also, if anything, riding a fs rig has helped my style and those i ride with when we swap between fs and hard tail. its a blessing to have the rear wheel travel when going on a new line, trying a new trick, or the first couple of rides of the new season... things of that nature. i've ridden plenty of big jumps on a full sus and a hard tail, and can keep up with all of my buddies.

not to single you out because i don't know what work you've done to your suspension, but no one really puts the effort into setting up their shock and fork correctly. i've noticed this in the offroading world too, people spend thousands on shocks and then complain when they don't work right, when a $50 valving kit and some afternoons offroading will make it work like the pro's trucks.

yeah i'm well aware you can set up a full sus to ride jumps but it's always gonna require more energy transfer to get through a jump. The sort of jumps i ride it would be extremely difficult to get through them with a suspension frame unless it was almost locked out. I tend to ride proper trails with big steep jumps with twisty bits and hips and whatnot. A large fs frame would just feel rubbish for that sort of riding, it would be more effort and less maneuverable.
Ive ridden full sus bikes over lots of jumps an theyre great but just not suited for steep jumps.
flag milanboez
Posted: Jan 8, 2010 at 4:26 Quote
yeah ide love to see someone ride a full suss through the local bmx trails
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Jan 8, 2010 at 5:59 Quote
it also depends on the Dirt Jumps you are riding

here in the UK we tend to have very tight, steep BMX DJs which are generally easier to ride on a BMX or 24" DJ hardtail

but you'll also get placed like Woburn which have much bigger, european / American style Dirt Jumps - which are fine when ridden on full suspension bikes too...big boosts

my Wildcard (5") in action at Woburn on the main line

photo
flag doyouquaxu
Posted: Jan 14, 2010 at 18:05 Quote
gutkrencher wrote:
yeah i'm well aware you can set up a full sus to ride jumps but it's always gonna require more energy transfer to get through a jump. The sort of jumps i ride it would be extremely difficult to get through them with a suspension frame unless it was almost locked out. I tend to ride proper trails with big steep jumps with twisty bits and hips and whatnot. A large fs frame would just feel rubbish for that sort of riding, it would be more effort and less maneuverable.
Ive ridden full sus bikes over lots of jumps an theyre great but just not suited for steep jumps.

disagreeing again. have you ever watched a skateboarder on a vert ramp? how they pump their legs to maintain their speed thru the flat? its the same as a biker thru the flats to keep their speed up between jumps. you can set it up so your bike does that for you. i NEVER locked out my rear end because, well, why bother carrying around the extra weight on the frame? I don't have any pics up because i suck at uploading after i take them, but in my oakley album all of the jumps pictured i hit first on my fs bike.
flag Trailboss-Dan
Posted: Jan 14, 2010 at 23:47 Quote
yeh but those are very flat jumps, fair enough its easy to hit jumps like that on a fs because the transition are long and only slightly curved, but most of the trails over here have are nothing like that. No ones ever tried to get a fs over my trails and no one will its not possible.
flag Infiltrator
Posted: Jan 14, 2010 at 23:53 Quote
there was a guy at Torker in Orcutt, CA hitting the DJs on a Bighit... And he was doing them pretty fuking smooth! I think he has a pinkbike account... Darian is his name i think
flag gutkrencher
Posted: Jan 15, 2010 at 4:18 Quote
doyouquaxu wrote:
gutkrencher wrote:
yeah i'm well aware you can set up a full sus to ride jumps but it's always gonna require more energy transfer to get through a jump. The sort of jumps i ride it would be extremely difficult to get through them with a suspension frame unless it was almost locked out. I tend to ride proper trails with big steep jumps with twisty bits and hips and whatnot. A large fs frame would just feel rubbish for that sort of riding, it would be more effort and less maneuverable.
Ive ridden full sus bikes over lots of jumps an theyre great but just not suited for steep jumps.

disagreeing again. have you ever watched a skateboarder on a vert ramp? how they pump their legs to maintain their speed thru the flat? its the same as a biker thru the flats to keep their speed up between jumps. you can set it up so your bike does that for you. i NEVER locked out my rear end because, well, why bother carrying around the extra weight on the frame? I don't have any pics up because i suck at uploading after i take them, but in my oakley album all of the jumps pictured i hit first on my fs bike.

What Trailboss dan is saying. You obviously don't ride proper trails.
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