- Pentosin Hydraulic Mineral Oil - Save Money & Gain Performance -

PB Forum :: Mechanics' Lounge
- Pentosin Hydraulic Mineral Oil - Save Money & Gain Performance -
  • Previous Page
Author Message
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Oct 10, 2012 at 21:31 Quote
Hey PB. Another informative (I hope) random article about parts and some tips. I did a quick search and didn't come up with any definitive threads about Hydraulic Mineral Oil, the one you use in your Shimano Brakes for a bleeding/function. Some of you maybe already use this tip I'm giving you, but for those who haven't heard this yet, there is an alternative to Shimano Mineral Oil, and it's good (and cheaper).

As you might know, Shimano uses Hydraulic Mineral Oil, not to be confused with pure "Mineral Oil", like the one you find at your drug store. Shimano has specially formulated this hydraulic oil from magical unicorn blood (another reason to stop using it, Unicorns are endangered) for your very own brakes. It's a pinkish/redish hue Hydraulic Mineral Oil and it costs around 25-30 USD Dollars depending on where you live. Or, for an astounding 50ml, 16-18 Dollars! After all, hunting Unicorns is dangerous and expensive ..(Alright, I'll stop with the lame humor...).
*7.1 has seemed to be phased out now, look for 11S or newer synthetic based m-oil.*


There are many speculations on what the Shimano Branded oil is and what alternatives may be viable. But, in the end, people do choose the wrong variation many times to bleed their brakes. I want to clear that up. Some buy too heavy WT oil (sluggish performance), some completely may miss the mark and buy 'Drug Store' Mineral Oil, which is used as a laxative, loaded with perfume/consumable additives. Unless you want your brakes to smell good as you fly off a cliff because your brakes didn't stop you in time, there are better alternatives. Consequences may be slightly exaggerated.

Liquid Gold. For Hydraulic Mineral Oil Systems brakes best ever.


// Pentosin (7.1 or LHM PLUS) (Formal: liquide hydraulique minéral) is a German Hydraulic Mineral Oil brand. Well known for being used in Hydra Steering fluid columns (and other) in German vehicles such as BMW and Mercedes (I drive Mercedes and naturally stock these). The price is CONSIDERABLY better, sometimes at 25 Dollars for 6Liters!! Usual is $22 Dollars for 3L if you find the right place, which is still incredibly cheaper. At the BMW Forums, many members consider Pentosin "Liquid Gold" and the answer to dealers/mechanics charging up to +300% markup for their own in-house branded M-Oil which is so conveniently/automatically "included" in the bill every time. Thus, Pentosin is the savior from manufacturer rebranding in M-Oil applicable cases. Lastly, it's available, almost at any single auto store for cheap. It will always/should be cheaper than Shimano M-Oil, that's for sure.

Info:
(Pentosin actually differs a bit from most hydraulic fluids with its rating @ "18 cSt@40C/6.0 cSt@100C/VI 340." So it's thinner than Castrol Brand and Shimano M-Oil is some generic hydra oil (unknown) with mid-low WT).

*Pentosin is used by over 25 Global Car Manufacturers as the default Hydraulic Oil, Pentosin specifically meets HIGH-ISO standards*
** Unlike DOT Fluid, Hydra M-Oil does not contain Corrosion Inhibitors because it naturally doesn't absorb water. Therefore, M-Oil systems are generally characterized as having exceptional longevity, since Corrosion Inhibitors do break-down/lose potency over 1-2 years of time in DOT. This also means that basic Hydro M-Oil will have a consistently higher boiling temperature/better resistance (overtime vs. non-Silicone based DOT) since eventual water in DOT system will lower boiling temperature resistance. **

What's great about Pentosin is that its efficiently functional down to -40c. You'd be frozen by then and dead. **Few riders report to have very consistent properties over cold temperatures when Shimano OEM Fluid has been noted to degrade somewhat in these lower temperatures** Also, it'll work to 110c, past boiling point at a very low CST, which is awesome for performance standards. Great for variable environments..not that you should be in those environments in the first place....You get what I'm saying. Another article confirmed that Pentosin 7.1/LHM Plus is indeed much lighter in WT than Shimano Brand M-Oil. One should actually see an increase in performance from using Pentosin 7.1 or LHM Plus (Green), whether it be better all-weather consistency or a more solid and defined hydraulic action. However, do NOT use/confuse the CHF11S as a usable Hydro M-Oil, as it is different type of synthetically derived formula. *Should NOT Be MIXED. Note:: 7.1 is phased out, Pentosin Synthetics have been working fine in some member's brake systems, to be safe, make sure to flush well before transitioning over.

Many people are skeptical about using a different brand than OEM Shimano Fluid. But just like the Auto-Dealer example, most brands are going to rebrand simple Hydro M-Oil and call it their own as a special "proprietary" oil (Fox to Torco Susp. Fluid). Shimano may have researched their own "ingredient" to a small degree but believe me, the additives they put in there are already in any Auto-Grade M-Oil (they probably copied it). Also, it won't be any more better than something like Pentosin which is first off, A) German Auto-Grade, B) Lighter in WT than Castrol/Shimano, C) Performance Proven Brand. Let's not fall for the whole facade as Shimano walks to the bank, laughing at you (I still like their parts). Pentosin is in every way made for hydraulic situations even more intense than what a Bike Brake can put out. Surely, an Auto-Grade M-Oil is not going to have additives that actually destroy the inner housings/parts of a car? Of course not, they are made to withstand 100's pounds of pressure while promoting all the necessary functions to keep the internals/seals healthy and smooth as called for by standards. If this oil can work and is recommended by many people, it can work in a simple sealed Bike Brake system. Also Magura Brakes wrote this in their owner manuals before they invented their own line of M-Oil, "List of Approved Brands: Pentosin 7.1/LHM Plus". But just like Shimano, they caught on and try to make some extra $$ out our your guys hard worked hands. Nice try. Pirate


I've been using Pentosin for a while now; me and some few others will tell you it has been working great. No bad issues or anything. Simple bleeding but with a cheaper and better M-Oil. In fact, I do notice a better locking time, strength, and consistency while using it. Definitely a useful tip for people who don't want to scurry around finding Shimano Brand M-Oil and break their bank for rebranded Magical Unicorn Blood. Note: If you are like me who uses a lot of fluid to really get a full-on, extremely thorough bleed, we often use up way more M-Oil then what is provided by some small Shimano Bottle. If I was stuck with Shimano brand, I would be spending $35-$40+ Dollars per Caliper! Instead I saved about $50 Dollars and still have tons of left over Pentosin M-Oil.

Comment if you have used Pentosin 7.1 or LHM Plus or have any questions! (No I'm not some Pentosin Rep).

* MAKE SURE TO DO A FULL BLEED THROUGH BEFORE USING PENTOSIN * Wink
** As another member pointed out, using M-Oil other than Shimano's Re-branded Oil will cause you too void warranty...of course, you can always have Shimano's M-Oil in your brakes at time of warranty inspection..if you know what I mean. Helmet **

Sources: Personal Use/Test/Comparison, Peter Verdone's Articles, MTBR members + Testers, Pentosin homepage, ISO Standards, O'Reily's Online Store, BMW Forum, Shimano's website, Castrol website, Magura old PDF, Product Review Sites.

>> 1) UPDATE - 1/10/13 - 1/26/13:
Its been about 7 months since I originally filled my M810 brakes with Pentosin. Been using them in very cold conditions of about 34-40F (not the coldest..but cold for us Californians) with one hard DH ride a day. Nothing has changed, the levers are still solid just as much as before, and lock-time and whatnot has been consistent. No remote signs of problems of seals/leaks/etc. Update again: Still strong as ever. Lock-time is still perfect. Almost 8 Months. Switched to XTR Levers w/ same M810 Calipers. Bled w/ Pentosin. Lever action is crisp and solid. No signs of seal-wear or internal seal debris.
flag hollowtech2
Posted: Oct 23, 2012 at 16:11 Quote
Thanks! I will archive this post and give it a shot on an old set of deores I have. If things go well I plan on doing my saints for a more responsive feel.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Oct 23, 2012 at 16:38 Quote
hollowtech2 wrote:
Thanks! I will archive this post and give it a shot on an old set of deores I have. If things go well I plan on doing my saints for a more responsive feel.

Thank you for reading. I like writing articles like this haha Big Grin . And, I already did this to my M810 Saint Brakes, front/back. I would place the difference at around 5-10% increase of brake lock time/snappy feel. I know some people report great feedback and others a more mild performance gain. It depends on a variety of factors but knowing; 1) paying for less, 2) auto-grade, light weight M-Oil, 3) Temperature factor, are all positives! The temperature part is good if you are in the cold/really hot areas which is a major plus. I know some brakes can feel much more sluggish under really heavy cold conditions.
flag tpersons
O+
Posted: Oct 26, 2012 at 8:50 Quote
Motorex makes a hydraulic clutch fluid that is mineral oil. Its about 10 bucks for 100ml bottle. Its used in ktm magura clutch's and we bled my buddies saints with it the other day, its great stuff. not nearly as expensive as great quality stuff. Its called motorex hydraulic fluid 75, pops up on google super quick. Some of them say clutch fluid, some say brake fluid, but they're all mineral oil.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Oct 26, 2012 at 9:41 Quote
^ Nice. yeah just as long they are "hydraulic" M-Oil. Do you know what WT it is around/viscosity? Sometimes they have what looks like a random line of complicated numbers concerning the WT/etc.
flag find-me
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 8:18 Quote
Spicy-Mike wrote:
do NOT use/confuse the CHF11S as a usable M-Oil, as it is synthetic.

Why do you think it's not possible to use synthetic oil?
I've found Motul Multi-HF oil. And it has almost the same characteristics as LHM +
It seems to me, that using synthetic oil for hydraulic systems will be even better, than mineral, isn't it?
flag tpersons
O+
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 9:16 Quote
viscosity is 15 mm2/s (40°C), not sure what that transfers to wt wise I would assume it is not possible to use synthetics because of the seals. If you put mineral oil in a brake fluid system, the seals swell up like balloons. The two materials just don't play well together. And the new bottles of it say moto/bicycle.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 10:24 Quote
Idk truly if you can't use synthetics, they always warn not to mix them. So if you do use synthetic you should really flush out the system clean.

And also possible seal compatibility like tpersons said. Yeah not sure either, but they do have some warnings.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 10:26 Quote
But anyways, it's been little time since I bled the brakes with Pentosin, they are working better than before. The bite definitely hits much harder too which is a plus in my books.
flag andreasmoser
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 11:04 Quote
Good info! I will be trying this on my Deores. If all goes well my XTR stoppers will get the spa treatment too. Always looking for savings in our shop supplies and performance gains are always welcome. I will let you know how things go.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 11:14 Quote
For sure! Yeah, its been about 2-3 months now? I can't find anything wrong with the bleed and new mineral oil. Just bleed out the old stock shimano oil and once I saw "green" which is Pentosin's color and it's good to go. Tell me if you feel that extra strong "bite" after you bleed. It's not like locking-out but the lever just feels extra strong/quick after switching over.

Let us know! I'm sure you'll find the cheap price + extra performance nice Smile
flag Shoe2190
O+
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 11:53 Quote
Just so your aware you void your warranty by not using shimanos own pink fluid.
flag Spicy-Mike
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 11:59 Quote
My warranty is already over. And we all know Shimano's own oil is just rebranded Hydraulic M-Oil.

Plus, if it truly is, just swap out the oil beforehand and just act like it never happened..Helmet

But I will included that on the article thanks!
flag tpersons
O+
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 12:07 Quote
you void your warranty by not using shimano fluid? Seriously, what a joke.
flag find-me
Posted: Nov 21, 2012 at 12:54 Quote
tpersons wrote:
viscosity is 15 mm2/s (40°C), not sure what that transfers to wt wise I would assume it is not possible to use synthetics because of the seals. If you put mineral oil in a brake fluid system, the seals swell up like balloons. The two materials just don't play well together. And the new bottles of it say moto/bicycle.

Absolutely agree with you!
Mineral oil and DOT brake fluids are not supposed to be mixed.
But! Does it means that the seals for mineral oil are not compatible with synthetic oil (not DOT).

I've just want to try how it will work with synthetic oil, because synthetic fluids are always better.

do not confuse synthetic oil and DOT brake fluids (which are synthetic too, but are not kind of oil)
  • Previous Page

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.017299
Mobile Version of Website