Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

PB Forum :: Pinkbike Groups
Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
Author Message
flag ninjatarian
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 14:08 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Wish they listed the weight, but this thing can’t weigh much. 8 grand, but I feel that’s fairly reasonable compared to what some other brands have been putting out for pricing recently.

photo
https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bikes/mountain/trail-bikes/scalpel-se/scalpel-carbon-se-ltd-lefty
flag seraph
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 14:09 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Without knowing actual frame weights, my guesses are:

NS Synonym TR
Kona Hei Hei CR
SC Tallboy 4
Scott Spark 900 (non-RC)

That's just for short-travel bikes though. And only taking into account the starting frame weights. My Tallboy 4 was 27 lbs with 2.6" tires and a 140mm Pike. I could have easily built it around 25 lbs by changing a few key items.
flag kwapik
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 14:30 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Transition Spur. Was 24.74lbs/11.22kg in Pinkbike's field test.
flag erdinc
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 14:39 Quote
kwapik wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Transition Spur. Was 24.74lbs/11.22kg in Pinkbike's field test.

epic evo was 9.92
flag Circe
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 15:40 Quote
seraph wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Without knowing actual frame weights, my guesses are:

NS Synonym TR
Kona Hei Hei CR
SC Tallboy 4
Scott Spark 900 (non-RC)

That's just for short-travel bikes though. And only taking into account the starting frame weights. My Tallboy 4 was 27 lbs with 2.6" tires and a 140mm Pike. I could have easily built it around 25 lbs by changing a few key items.

Tallboy frame is heavy AF.

"The 3.1kg frame/shock/hardware weight (medium CC) is also 400g heavier than the previous Tallboy "

For comparison, my Ripley M frame weighs 2.5 kg. That's .6 kgs or 1.3 lbs lighter.

Spark is all bushings, so it is light. They don't seem super sturdy. I've seen one crack in a a mechanic stand from installing a BB (with a torque wrench!)
flag kwapik
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 16:13 Quote
Noeserd wrote:
kwapik wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Here's one for you geeks:

What's the lightest 120mm+ full suspension bike for the money, new?

Transition Spur. Was 24.74lbs/11.22kg in Pinkbike's field test.

epic evo was 9.92

Only 110mm rear travel
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 16:18 Quote
Frankly I'm not even sure how to do the math for this.

2650/33=80
3000/32=93
3500/30=116

Ok, is the cheaper bike a better value?

2000/40=50
3000/40=75
3500/40=87

Hmmm...all this shows us is that a heavier bike is always "better".

I want a formula that will always give the lighter bike a better "score".
flag huvudvind
O+
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 16:29 Quote
kwapik wrote:
Noeserd wrote:
kwapik wrote:


Transition Spur. Was 24.74lbs/11.22kg in Pinkbike's field test.

epic evo was 9.92

Only 110mm rear travel

mbr measured the spur at 116 rear travel https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/transition-spur-x01 still a rad bike but the epic is considerably lighter, with a bike yoke and sidluxe the epic is ~800g lighter
flag R-M-R
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 17:11 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Hmmm...all this shows us is that a heavier bike is always "better".

I don't think that's what it shows. It could be interpreted to mean a bike's speed or ride quality is more closely linked to factors other than light weight, such as suspension performance, chassis stiffness, tire traction, etc., all of which tend to add weight.

I'm all for reducing weight, but only if it can be done without sacrificing other, more important, properties.


PHeller wrote:
I want a formula that will always give the lighter bike a better "score".

You'll have to make it yourself because most metrics score a bike according to how fast it is or how well it rides. You might start with something like:

[grams above a baseline value + dollars over a baseline value]⁻¹
flag kwapik
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 17:43 Quote
huvudvind wrote:

mbr measured the spur at 116 rear travel https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/transition-spur-x01 still a rad bike but the epic is considerably lighter, with a bike yoke and sidluxe the epic is ~800g lighter

Coincidentally - the same magazine said the following about the Epic Evo "we can forgive it for measuring 5mm shy of the claimed 110mm".
flag ninjatarian
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 18:04 Quote
kwapik wrote:
huvudvind wrote:

mbr measured the spur at 116 rear travel https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspension-bikes/transition-spur-x01 still a rad bike but the epic is considerably lighter, with a bike yoke and sidluxe the epic is ~800g lighter

Coincidentally - the same magazine said the following about the Epic Evo "we can forgive it for measuring 5mm shy of the claimed 110mm".

Evil Following measures 121mm vs the claimed 120mm. That must explain the extra pound of weight vs the competition.

I would forgive nothing on the Epic Evo short of what’s advertised based on their asking price.
flag R-M-R
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 20:00 Quote
The difference in weight between one light frame and another light frame is well under a pound. The rest is component choice. It's disappointing when riders - or worse, publications - ascribe too much importance to a frame, especially when they claim a frame could be built into a total weight of X lb. A Scott Gambler carbon DH frame could be built up to barely over 19 lb, per the Pinkbike sub-7 kg thought experiment with a few small changes. Obviously, it would be a terrible, imbalanced ride; I'm just illustrating how misguided these statements are.

When choosing between frames that are light for their category, there's often little difference between choices. A Schmolke carbon handlebar vs. a Deity carbon handlebar can have a greater difference. Wheels can differ in weight by well over a pound, even between posh options with carbon rims.

Despite how I might sound, I'm actually a proponent of saving weight, I'm just trying to put it into context among other performance considerations and to advocate for objective evaluation of weight reduction options.

And as an aside, has anyone else noticed it's often the biggest riders who are most concerned about bike weight?
flag badbadleroybrown
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 20:17 Quote
Circe wrote:
Tallboy frame is heavy AF.

"The 3.1kg frame/shock/hardware weight (medium CC) is also 400g heavier than the previous Tallboy "

For comparison, my Ripley M frame weighs 2.5 kg. That's .6 kgs or 1.3 lbs lighter.

Spark is all bushings, so it is light. They don't seem super sturdy. I've seen one crack in a a mechanic stand from installing a BB (with a torque wrench!)
Same article:

"More weight will always mean more effort on extended climbs but, for reference, Trek’s new Top Fuel 120mm ‘race/trail’ bike is the same 12.8kg overall weight in a comparable spec so added mass on short travel bikes certainly isn’t just a Santa Cruz situation."

I don't really think pushing trail bikes sub 30 just for the sake of bragging rights is really the way to go. I'd take a 32lb bike with durability that rides great over a 27lb trail bike that I worry about when the trail gets rowdy every time.
flag seraph
Posted: May 4, 2021 at 21:01 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Circe wrote:
Tallboy frame is heavy AF.

"The 3.1kg frame/shock/hardware weight (medium CC) is also 400g heavier than the previous Tallboy "

For comparison, my Ripley M frame weighs 2.5 kg. That's .6 kgs or 1.3 lbs lighter.

Spark is all bushings, so it is light. They don't seem super sturdy. I've seen one crack in a a mechanic stand from installing a BB (with a torque wrench!)
Same article:

"More weight will always mean more effort on extended climbs but, for reference, Trek’s new Top Fuel 120mm ‘race/trail’ bike is the same 12.8kg overall weight in a comparable spec so added mass on short travel bikes certainly isn’t just a Santa Cruz situation."

I don't really think pushing trail bikes sub 30 just for the sake of bragging rights is really the way to go. I'd take a 32lb bike with durability that rides great over a 27lb trail bike that I worry about when the trail gets rowdy every time.

I never worried about my Tallboy 4 when the trail got rowdy. You just can't skimp on the components and you can easily build something that's a reasonable weight and plenty capable. My new Top Fuel Evo project will be pushing the limits though...

 


Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.048038
Mobile Version of Website