Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 13:47 Quote
bikerboywill wrote:
I’m really interested in position sensitive shocks. So basically the compression firms up the deeper into the stroke you go?

In the most literal sense, it just means the damping properties change based on the position, but yes, deeper = firmer is how it's always done on the compression side. Can apply to rebound, too. A modern trophy truck shock looks like an octopus with all the bypass valves that open and close at various points in the travel.

There have been several position-sensitive shocks in the bike world, including:

• Fox DHX 5
• Marzocchi 888 RC2X
• Progressive 5th Element
• Manitou Intrinsic
• EXT Arma

photo
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 14:01 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
bikerboywill wrote:
I’m really interested in position sensitive shocks. So basically the compression firms up the deeper into the stroke you go?

In the most literal sense, it just means the damping properties change based on the position, but yes, deeper = firmer is how it's always done on the compression side. Can apply to rebound, too. A modern trophy truck shock looks like an octopus with all the bypass valves that open and close at various points in the travel.

There have been several position-sensitive shocks in the bike world, including:

• Fox DHX 5
• Marzocchi 888 RC2X
• Progressive 5th Element
• Manitou Intrinsic
• EXT Arma

photo


Totally forgot that the 5th element was position sensitive... I am off to my parts bin to see if I have a 200x57 5th element.. I'll buy a bike yoke and try that on the enduro. I really liked my 5th elements on the M1 and SB66.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 14:03 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
Totally forgot that the 5th element was position sensitive... I am off to my parts bin to see if I have a 200x57 5th element.. I'll buy a bike yoke and try that on the enduro. I really liked my 5th elements on the M1 and SB66.

Worth a shot. Interesting to see how it stacks up against current products.

I don't recall all the tuning tricks for the Progressive shocks; I'm thinking you could run low air pressure and reduce the volume in the air chamber to reduce the threshold at which it opened into the main HSC circuit, but increase the position-sensitive boost.

Manitou licensed the Curnutt / Progressive design and I recall the Manitou shocks being a lot better than the Progressive products.
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 14:06 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
Totally forgot that the 5th element was position sensitive... I am off to my parts bin to see if I have a 200x57 5th element.. I'll buy a bike yoke and try that on the enduro. I really liked my 5th elements on the M1 and SB66.

Worth a shot. Interesting to see how it stacks up against current products.

7.875x 2.25 is a hard size to find them in.. All the ones I have seen and had are 2" strokes for the 7.875 lengths.

I rode my M1 this spring a few times with a 5th element and absolutely didn't lack for performance compared to the CCDB on my M9.

I forgot that Manitou had the Swinger 6 way too.. I'll check the buysell.. The 5th Elements and those swingers are pretty kick ass shocks performance wise for how cheap you can get them. Risse is still servicing them too.
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 19:57 Quote
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.
flag Nobble
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 20:38 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.
eeeeh, I'd say newer, like 2013-2016. The charger damper, the 2013 Vivid update, the new fox dhx2 and float x2.

Nothing comparable from 2006-2008 can compete.
flag nubbs
O+
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 20:55 Quote
Nobble wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.
eeeeh, I'd say newer, like 2013-2016. The charger damper, the 2013 Vivid update, the new fox dhx2 and float x2.

Nothing comparable from 2006-2008 can compete.
flag newbermuda
O+
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 20:58 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.

you trippin
flag R-M-R
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 22:48 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.

Things have not become worse since then. Those years seem great because of how much the products improved - i.e. they achieved peak year-on-year relative greatness, not peak absolute greatness.
flag ajax-ripper
Posted: Sep 26, 2019 at 23:40 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.

Things have not become worse since then. Those years seem great because of how much the products improved - i.e. they achieved peak year-on-year relative greatness, not peak absolute greatness.
This is what I was getting at, things like the marzocchi rc2x damper where leaps and bounds ahead of the previous generation and still offer top notch performance.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Sep 27, 2019 at 3:38 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:
2006-2008 was the golden years of damper design, change my mind.

Things have not become worse since then. Those years seem great because of how much the products improved - i.e. they achieved peak year-on-year relative greatness, not peak absolute greatness.
This is what I was getting at, things like the marzocchi rc2x damper where leaps and bounds ahead of the previous generation and still offer top notch performance.

Manitou's TPC damper is great and was developed & implemented long before 2006. Unfortunately SPV was much cheaper and is what Manitou crammed into everything in the mid to late 2000s, right about the time their reputation went spiraling.


Thankfully they brought TPC back years later.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Sep 27, 2019 at 8:17 Quote
Dampers might have been good, but suspension as a whole was crappy. There were a lot of designs that were just too complicated and too heavy, or good damping pared with lack of chassis stiffness.

I think this is why the GRIP dampers, as well as the Charger RC are getting such good praise. While yes, the GRIP2 and Charger 2.1 are incremental improvements, the GRIP damper is pretty damn good for being a "budget" damper. It's really the chassis stiffness and air spring tech that improved so much in that last 10 years.
flag skerby
Posted: Sep 27, 2019 at 8:28 Quote
Charger 1 > Charger 2, for some people at least. I liked the RC2DH damper more than charger 2 even, charger 2 feels very under damped to me.

I think the biggest improvements have been seals/bushing/overall slipperiness. The 1 piece seals that they put in the 27.5 pikes were game changing.
flag dirtnapped
O+
Posted: Sep 27, 2019 at 9:26 Quote
skerby wrote:
Charger 1 > Charger 2, for some people at least. I liked the RC2DH damper more than charger 2 even, charger 2 feels very under damped to me.

I think the biggest improvements have been seals/bushing/overall slipperiness. The 1 piece seals that they put in the 27.5 pikes were game changing.

The Charger 1 seems to use up it's travel faster than the RC2DH did. I like both of them, but I agree that seals and bushings have gotten better. My old RC2DH with Pike seals was money.
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Sep 27, 2019 at 9:57 Quote
dirtnapped wrote:
skerby wrote:
Charger 1 > Charger 2, for some people at least. I liked the RC2DH damper more than charger 2 even, charger 2 feels very under damped to me.

I think the biggest improvements have been seals/bushing/overall slipperiness. The 1 piece seals that they put in the 27.5 pikes were game changing.

The Charger 1 seems to use up it's travel faster than the RC2DH did. I like both of them, but I agree that seals and bushings have gotten better. My old RC2DH with Pike seals was money.

Still kinda pissed at myself for selling my RC2DH Lyrik.. Should have kept that one around.

 


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