Climbing uphills and bike weight?

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Climbing uphills and bike weight?
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flag nightflame159
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 at 19:26 Quote
Ok my question may seems weird but im asking myself how much of a diference weight really does to climbing ability vs tire size and geometry if im not xc racing.If i buy an AM/FR bike with an air shock(propedal) and adjustable air fork 160mm-120mm and put smaller tire when xc and trail riding will it perform similar to a lighter trail bike that is 24lbs vs 30lbs. Is 6-7 lbs really THAT noticable? I mean if i bring 2 liters of water it will add 4.4lbs to my total weight!! And instead of spending 2000$ more to save 4lbs on a bike, would i have the same performance if i climb more ofen and loose 6-7lbs on my own body instead of the bike? My main goal is agressive AM and fun dh/fr but i dont know how much sacrifice i need to do so it can be pedalable uphill for epic AM and 3-4 hrs xc singletrack days
flag cartera
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 at 19:43 Quote
bike weight isnt that big of a deal for me because i got a 48lbs fully and a 30lbs HT and the when you ride the bikes one after another the 18lbs weight difference isnt very noticeable unless im on a very tecky trail or climbing a steep hill.
flag MarkASX
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 at 23:45 Quote
30lbs is a decent weight for an AM bike. I have a Tomac Snyper at 30lbs and I climb some sick long climbs here in Japan. Some good long travel AM bike that hide weight well are: Tomac Vanqish 160, Chumba Evo, and Pivot Firebird. I have ridin all 3 bikes and all are bad ass bombers and can get you back up top without killing yourself.
flag tarvisg
O+
Posted: Sep 1, 2010 at 23:58 Quote
I ride about a 30 pound bike all the time, climbing and downhill. Sometimes I hit up the Northstar Bike Park in Truckee Ca and get a rental of one of the Giant Glory DH bikes, probably 40lbs at least. I can defiantly tell the different when I am trying to climb with the damn thing. It is a beast. The extra weight is noticeable to me. Maybe because its not my bike. Not sure??
flag toecutter
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 12:25 Quote
My $0.02
Bike weight contributes to overall bike/rider weight, which is only 1 factor that contributes to resistance to going uphill. I think you are exactly right in saying that rider/kit weight can be atleast as significant a contributor to overall weihgt. and then weight is just one component of what you battle against when climbing.Bike geometry, rolling resistance of tires( tread/pressure/volume), and conversely loss of traction and the resulting waste of energy if the rear tire spins due to lack of tread, which can also be cuased or amplified by poor technique, resistance from a poorly serviced wheel hub or drivetrain......the list goes on.
Buy the bike that you think will be the most fun!
TC
flag hampsteadbandit
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 12:56 Quote
it definitely makes a difference, having a lighter bike, as long as the bike pedals efficiently, and is not so light in the frame or wheelset that its too flexible which causes a loss of efficiency

photo

my Devinci Hectik is sub 30lb

with the travel adjustable Fox 36 Talas fork on the 130mm setting, and the Fox RP23 XV BV shock on pro-pedal "3" setting, and tubeless tire setup, it happily goes up any hills I choose to climb, very quickly for a 6 x 6 all-mountain bike I must add!
flag Svard75
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 12:59 Quote
What TC said ^^

In my experience going from a 27lb bike to a 25lb bike made a difference to me. I say that I could feel it because when you start pedaling the lighter bike accelerates much faster than the heavier bike. Uphill feels better because of the better geometry the new frame and fork provide. Plus the propedal tech feels stiffer than the Rock Shox Monarch 4.2 gate.

But seriously from 27lbs to 25lbs I had to spend $2500 more on parts! That's the cost of a 30lbs bike from a bike shop.

S
flag qkenuf4u
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 14:51 Quote
going from a 40+lb YETI to my 32lb FSR made a HUGE difference when climbing/accelerating... i cant wait to loose 10lbs+ off MYSELF and another 4-6 off the bike... Pimp
whats really crazy is its harder to ride with no hands now cause of the wheel/bike weight. its lighter now so the wind moves it easier. Eek
wheels are prob. the biggest difference since thats rotating mass and skinnier tires will have less rolling resistance. it all adds up to a lighter/faster bike...
flag nightflame159
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 15:24 Quote
Ok thank you guys for your answers! That helped me a lot to understandWink
hampsteadbandit wrote:
it definitely makes a difference, having a lighter bike, as long as the bike pedals efficiently, and is not so light in the frame or wheelset that its too flexible which causes a loss of efficiency

photo

my Devinci Hectik is sub 30lb

with the travel adjustable Fox 36 Talas fork on the 130mm setting, and the Fox RP23 XV BV shock on pro-pedal "3" setting, and tubeless tire setup, it happily goes up any hills I choose to climb, very quickly for a 6 x 6 all-mountain bike I must add!

How do you like the 36 talas and rp23 on the fast fr/dh trails with lot of brake bumps and small rocks? Can it handle some FR abuse like 6-7 foot drops if i weight 200lbs(hopefully 185-190lbs if i get fit) Im waiting for the new devinci dixon to be released and see if i can build it like a do it all mini fr/dh for now and maybe get a lighter xc/am later or make the devinci lighter and get a more dh dedicated bike...
flag thrice
Posted: Sep 2, 2010 at 15:39 Quote
I pedal my 38 pound Nomad up stupidly steep stuff sometimes. Also, three or four times a week I climb it for a constant hour.

photo
Bike

photo
Usual ride

To tell you the absolute truth. Weight is not gonna matter as long as you are not racing and as long as you are riding on your own. You will get used to the weight and climb at your own pace. What matters is having a decent suspention set up. Either a shock with some sort of pro-pedal, or some kind of linkage that diminishes pedal bob. I have 2.7 inch tires up front and 2.5 in the rear. I climb fine, and I climb technical stuff sometimes.

When weight becomes an issue to me is when I ride with buddies who have lighter bikes, it can get frustrating to not be able to catch up with them.

Bottom line is that a lighter bike is basically a handicap for having less physical conditioning. You can get used to handling a heavier bike, but its gonna be harder. I put up with it because I want my bike to be race ready for downhill, and because I like components that don't break every month.

2 cents
flag sakucee
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 at 2:20 Quote
tarvisg wrote:
I ride about a 30 pound bike all the time, climbing and downhill. Sometimes I hit up the Northstar Bike Park in Truckee Ca and get a rental of one of the Giant Glory DH bikes, probably 40lbs at least. I can defiantly tell the different when I am trying to climb with the damn thing. It is a beast. The extra weight is noticeable to me. Maybe because its not my bike. Not sure??

Or, bike with DH geometry just pedals like crap uphill.

I just added 0.6kg's to my bike with Elka Stage 5, it goes faster to uphill, why?

Superior suspension -> Better traction.
flag junsupes
O+
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 at 8:42 Quote
sakucee wrote:
tarvisg wrote:
I ride about a 30 pound bike all the time, climbing and downhill. Sometimes I hit up the Northstar Bike Park in Truckee Ca and get a rental of one of the Giant Glory DH bikes, probably 40lbs at least. I can defiantly tell the different when I am trying to climb with the damn thing. It is a beast. The extra weight is noticeable to me. Maybe because its not my bike. Not sure??

Or, bike with DH geometry just pedals like crap uphill.

I just added 0.6kg's to my bike with Elka Stage 5, it goes faster to uphill, why?

Superior suspension -> Better traction.
+1, climbing uphill with pedal bob is the killer. I have the 08 enduro sl, and the weight isn't bad for climbing. I just wish that the e150 locked out.
flag lafalot
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 at 9:12 Quote
to make this work you have to limit your frame selection and be smart about component choice, and will often lead to spending a bit more money.

1. frame needs: low stand over, full length seat post, f derailleur mount, and ISCG tab(optional) - this may limit linkage design but not necessarily performance (ie: giant reign/reignx). The seat post length is absolutely necessary because you want a bike with low stand over for doing DH, but the seat high for xc, so long seat post is a must. Also dual ring is necessary for any serious climbing.

2. light weight wheels - enduro spec (ie: dt EX1750, mavic crossmax SX, I9 enduro)

3. travel adjustable fork - you need on-the-fly adjustment (fox, magura), not U-turn because no one wants to get off their bike before a climb and stand there turning a knob for 2 minutes.

4. comfy yet supportive seat, you need something that won't squish all over the place when you climb and yet give some cushion when you need it on the DH.

5. lightest tires for your riding - if you ride familiar trails all the time then go light light light, but if you often push the boundaries on brand new trails, then maybe go heavier to be safe ie: highroller

Bike weight itself has little to do with it as long as you are in the 30's. The efficiency of the frame, shock setup, fork setup, drivetrain setup, and wheel setup as described above are the most important factors. I keep up with my xc friend on my 33lb wildcard at non-racing speeds no problem.
flag blake-roxxs
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 at 18:50 Quote
I have seen some great answers but no one has mentioned how important gearing is on any bike esp and heavy bike when you are trying to hill climb.Weight is very important but improper gearing can be a killer.Is the crank single ring?This could be problem number one.If you have a 2 ring crank change to a 22T and hopefully your cassette is a 34T.You will be peddling your ass off but you woun't be dead tired from trying to haul your ass up the hill in a high gear!I have a Giant Reign X thats heavy and I have the 22T and 34T cassette and it climbs with ease.
flag nightflame159
Posted: Sep 3, 2010 at 18:57 Quote
lafalot wrote:
to make this work you have to limit your frame selection and be smart about component choice, and will often lead to spending a bit more money.
Yeah thats what i realised..and its hard to decide if i go lighter and compromise durability in the very rough trail or make it burlier but harder to pedal.I think i would need 2 bike for what i want..a light xc/AM that can still bomb down in the not so rough trails and a real slacker burlier FR/DH bike. My dealer have Devinci(waiting for the 2011 dixon specs),Trek(remedy or scratch air),Giant(reign xo) and specialized(not fan of the enduro spec) How rough can you go with a 160mm fork?
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