Thanks to PB readers for a great question and answer session!Jack Russell, industrial designer; Chris Mandell, gravity/enduro product manager; Mitchell Scott, communications director.
For this edition of Ask Us Anything the team behind the latest designs from Kona Bicycles will be answering all of your questions. Kona's new Process line of bikes has pushed the envelope of traditional mountain bike geometry, taking the concept of long top tubes, short stems and short chain stays to a new level. For that reason, the theme of this chat is 'Fit, Geometry, and Kinematics.' Do you have specific questions about how frame geometry is determined? Curious about what exactly 'kinematics' refers to? Fire away in the comments section below.
The Carbon Operator and the revised Process lineup
have brought Kona back into the spotlight. How ‘Ask Us Anything' Works:
Starting at 11:00 AM PST on February 19th you can type your questions into the comment box following this article and Kona's Jack Russell, Chris Mandell, and Mitchell Scott will take their best shot at it. Sometimes, your answer will pop up in a few seconds; others may take a while, as the guys from Kona will be busy responding to the flood of questions. Everyone who posts a question, large or small, will be taken seriously. To make the process as efficient as possible, try to follow these simple guidelines:
• Keep your questions relative. While this is an 'Ask Us Anything' session, the theme is 'Fit, Geometry and Kinematics'. Questions related to that topic are encouraged, but still feel free to ask whatever pressing queries you may have.
• Stay on topic. Try to keep your questions on one topic if possible. You can always ask about another item later.
• Try to keep your questions to about 100 words.
• Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have a negative issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaints relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner.
• Use propping to acknowledge good - or not so good - questions. Bump them up or down to where they belong.
Chris Mandell putting the Process 153 through its paces in Pemberton, BC. Photo: Joe Sales.
Below you will find the geometry charts for the bikes that Jack Russell and Chris Mandell played a large part in designing. Compare the numbers, particularly the reach and top tube length of the bikes in the Process line to other bikes currently on the market and the differences become apparent. The
Carbon Operator has been included in this discussion because of the suspension design that Kona ended up with despite the numerous other possible layouts they considered.
Thanks for all the questions - Chris Mandell, Jack Russell, and Mitchell Scott have gone back to working on the bikes of the future.www.konaworld.com
...i guess...
PS: Use "pito" instead, it's much more lovable! (spelled: "p[ee]tu")
konaworld.com/precept.cfm
We found when we were developing this bike, that shorter riders riding bike with traditional sizing could not get there dropper posts low enough, or, their dropper posts are as low in the frame as they can get. We realized that this is a waste of metal (weight) and you could design a bike with a lower ST which would allow for much more standover (important on the larger sizes). So that is what we went with, and it allows the standover we get with our frames.
We have riders from 5'4" to 6'5" or more (chris mandell) riding process bikes and finding a size that works for them.
I had been shopping for a Santa Cruz, and found that basically to get a 'good fit' for my 6'4" from the waist up, and Shetland Pony from the waist down body... I could pay top dollar for the latest 2019+ from SC XL, and XXL's with low Standover and longer reach / ETT, or... I could buy anything from the Process line going several years back, and get the nice blue color I wanted. About to hammer down on a 2018 CR. Trying to decide between 134 and 153, but in a geometry race between Kona, Yeti, and Santa Cruz, the fact that you did it early, pretty damn well, and affordably... that earns my money. Thanks for realizing good geometry and efficient engineering could solve all the variables!
I am an engineering student as well aspiring to be in the bike industry. I have had the opportunity to talk with many engineers in the industry (big companies and not so big) and I have acquired mainly these three things. First is personality. Its important to be friendly, approachable, stoked, and want to get everyone riding bikes by making better designs. Second would be being apart of the community. Bike industry employers love to hire someone who races frequently, does group rides, does trail building days, ect. Lastly, I was also told that it doesn't hurt to have a small portfolio of bike parts made or designed by you. I have simple things like seatpost clamps, lock-on clamps, stems, ect.(it doesn't hurt to design a whole bike!) innovation and sick looks help. I hope this brief list helps and wish you luck in your future endeavors!
-Stephan
www.pinkbike.com/u/richardcunningham/blog/Ask-Us-Anything-Fox-Factory.html
its a tough gig to break in the bike industry
in the early 90's I was studying a degree in Industrial Design, and needed 2 summer placements (for 2nd and 3rd year of my 4 year course) with employers. I got offered placements with Specialized USA and Cannondale USA but could not obtain clearance to work in the USA with such short notice
with this failure, I started my own company Bombproof Bikes Ltd. and purchased rear suspension technology for leading USA innovator Horst Leitner (Horst Pivot a.k.a Specialized FSR)
here is the result:
www.pinkbike.com/photo/9285933
ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb5488175/p4pb5488175.jpg
in order to make sure we hired a guy who can do that, I would say it is pretty much a requirement that you do or have done Formula SAE. if you are going to a school without Formula SAE either transfer to a school that has it, or start it. We need to know you can build something that works. A lot of engineers have great grades and a great theoretical understanding, but if you tell them to design a pivot, they wont know where to start. Baja SAE is also cool...but not quite as cool
The other thing that is important is you have to ride a lot and at least be a good enough at riding to be able to test a product. You don't have to be pro or anything, but not a total hack.
Also, last thing, dont be so focused on bike industry as your first job out of school. if you really want it, have some other jobs first, make mistakes there, and be ready and have the skills by the time you are applying to bike places. And hopefully by then you will have the portfolio we want to see.
I can only guess that you're trying to give it more of a dj-hardtail geometry - the one thing the Bass doesn't really have. Whatever the case, I'm confident the solution is within your grasp and will anxiously wait and see. *fingers crossed*
1. Just because the dropout cracked doesn't mean you get a new frame. If it was deemed to be a manufacturing issue: new frame. If was deemed to be rider abuse: no new frame.
2. Are you trying to do a warranty on a 18 year old frame? Or was this 10 years ago?
Would you rather 1) spend a night in passionate spooning embrace with Justin Bieber with him softly whispering spoken word versions of his most popular songs in your ear and no one would ever find out or 2) Not sleep with Justin Bieber but everyone thinks you did...for your entire life?
I've never heard any of Ms Beiber's songs, so perhaps that it.
Just resently bought your 2014 carbon operator and nothing but positive on the bike absolutely love it thx for a killer weapon!, now what's your thought on putting a 180mm fork on it? Thx appreacite it
But in all seriousness - keep up the good work! I've been a kona supporter for a long time and you guys are doing great things! I plan on adding a third kona (a process) to my collection this summer!
After scanning through the comments, I feel like your time is wasted here considering the audience.
I've turned down smoking deals on other bikes over the last few months, but if I can't get my Process by March, I may be forced to give up the dream and ask my dealer for my money back. (Half the reason I bought it was to race it at Sea Otter.) I would hate to have to switch at this point though.
We found when we were developing this bike, that shorter riders riding bike with traditional sizing could not get there dropper posts low enough, or, their dropper posts are as low in the frame as they can get. We realized that this is a waste of metal (weight) and you could design a bike with a lower ST which would allow for much more standover. So that is what we went with, and it allows the standover we get with our frames.
With that said, our frames will work best with a dropper post only, as they were not designed for a fixed post. Also, if you are sizing down a frame size, they ST might be too short, but we dont think people should be doing that anyway. If you size down a frame, you just threw away the whole longer reach thing we are trying to achieve.
we have people from 5'4" to 6'5" or more (chris mandell) riding process bikes and finding a size that works for them.
Also I ride a 2011 Kona Stinky TL Awsome bike
also you need a good knowledge of the process used in production for bike graphics. speaking Chinese would also be a plus
We designed these bikes (and the operator) with a flattish leverage rate curve, as we believe it is important for the rider to know how the bike will respond to his or her input no matter where he or she is in the travel. Having a more predictable bike, will allow for the rider to be faster.
As for why the bikes climb or descend well: there is a lot more to making a bike that climbs well than what this or that curve is doing. I think if you just focus on those curves and ignore everything else, you won't end up with a good bike. We try to make sure we balance the kinematics with everything else that makes a bike great.
I would love to hear your take on: front center vs rear center vs reach and how they tie into the horizontal center of gravity of the rider. (I know stack will have some influence on this but figure there is already enough variables for discussion)
Thanks!
Dan
Tell Angi she owes me one for that 5 a.m. icy drive to the aiport yesterday.
I think it is the thing to come in a few years.
But the selection of every angle on a bike is a balancing act. HeadAngle is a particularly tricky one. Going slack slows the steering input, takes weight off the front wheel and increases the wheelbase.
So... Will bikes get slacker? Hard to say. We feel that we have struck a good balance between HA, WB, FC, stem length...
Have the new operator, it is an unreal even sicker bike!!
Have got a Canecreek DB on it now and was wondering if you have a tune up for it?? Have 300lbs spring and weigh about 70kg, and many thanks for my sick ride!!
Also play around with a volume spacer or two. With our flattish leverage rate curves, you might find yourself bottoming out without tweaking the air can volume.
Fit and geometry are very dependant on proper suspension set up. Is there an ideal sag percentage for the process series? Specifically the 153?
I've noticed that the Monarch Plus on my 153 DL sags to 30%, when seated, between 180 and 220 psi. A forty psi difference seems pretty wide to sag to the same percentage. Should I have my shock looked at?
It does take a bit of air pressure to move the sag point. This is why it should be considered a starting point.
Thanks Much!!!
Love your Entourage..Most FUN bike I've owned..by FAR!!!
Is this going to come in the future or have you decided not to make it a production product?
Thanks for doing this. Huge benefit to the community here.
My question is this - on the new process line of bikes, why are the seat tube lengths so short? I don't know about other people, but at 6'4" with about a 36 inch inseam, a 20 inch seat tube is about the MINIMUM i can get by with coupled with a 410-420mm seat post.
Thanks,
S
carbon 153? When please?
Absolutely love my 153, Thank you
I know it’s not uncommon in pro races to run longer forks, ie. Jared Graves in the World Championships with his Enduro bike and Brendan Fairclough in the upcoming World Cup DH as well as a few other Enduro riders.
Thanks
@HonzoRider - how's the ride with the pike? Notice any flex? Any washing out on climbs? I'm guess Kona warranty guys will say no way to a pike to cover their asses but I'd like to know, if we assumed the risk, what the likelihood of damage would be.
Konaworld didn't really answer my question. All I want to know is if the head tube/frame is significantly different from a wall thickness perspective. I had a 153, but it wasn't what I wanted from a pedaling perspective. A Piked out 134 is the shizz! I transferred my 153dl build to my 134dl frame.
Thanks for this info man! Really good to know you can get it down to 140mm. It sounds like you're after the same kind of ride as me; I wouldn't mind a touch slacker head angle on the 134 but think the 153 is too much bike.
The other bikes on my radar are the Bronson, Pivot Mach 6, Transition Bandit, and Norco Sight. But maybe I'll just bite the bullet and give a Process 134 with a 160mm PIke a go.
Glad you're loving your bike!
I plan to build my own Downhill Bikeframe. Do you have any suggestions on
how I can learn more about how my suspensiondesign and the choice of the
linkage affects handling? I'd like do learn more about the single options
(single pivot, vpp etc. chainstay, mass-center) affect the suspension and
handling? Is it just experience and learning by doing or is there the
possibility to predict the handling "whit science"? If you have any
suggestions how I can learn more about it (literature or pc-programs)
without studying mechanics I'd be thankful!!
Same materials, same everything, so why are U complaining?
There was a lot of guys who recieved the Supereme operator frame after braking the standard one.
I might be biased; I own a coilair.
It's literally a MANDATORY upgrade. I bought a brand new one a had to upgrade immediately. What's the reason for such a thoughtless spec. It's a great bike and the stock derailleur makes it a non-dependable chunky trail descender. I'm sure the answer is cost but I think of Kona as a thrashers brand and should deliver a thrashers build.
I'm 6'2 200lb
I love riding a lot of urban spots. (Stairs, gaps, construction areas)
I also love to hit Moutain Creek and hot the trails hard.
I'm not sure which gravity set up would best suit my Riding style. Hopefully you guys can help me and let me know why
My question to Kona would be why they don't apply this to their XC range? Is this a pragmatic decision (i.e. old fashioned XC riders aren't up for it yet and with sales in mind it's better to stay with the long stems) or is it based on performance?
bonkywonky: we also believe dropper posts are essential and you will notice that not only are the Process bikes designed around them, but every one is spec'ed with a dropper.
As for applying this to XC? our XC bikes already have longer reach than average, and we will continue to innovate there. With that said, the goals of that style of riding and fit are different than Enduro/DH.
That being said I love the idea of the Process 111. Can't wait to try one.
All criticism aside, your bikes are awesome & I have been the proud owner of more than one. Keep up the good work but don't stoop to the level of inventing quasi-words to describe what sets you apart from your competition. Let the big companies do that.
Does the length on adjustalbe dropouts really factor that much into the ride of a bike?
Can the difference between slammed (Morpheus vimana) or slacked (norco magnum) really mean that much?
Thanks!
Btw Your bikes are amazing... The operator 24 and fr operator were some of the best bikes i've ridden.
I think if you look at the last five years, compared to the five years before that, you will see more refinement than all out innovation. We think this refinement trend will continue, but that is not to say we don't have big ideas planned
But the selection of every angle on a bike is a balancing act. HeadAngle is a particularly tricky one. Going slack slows the steeing input, takes weight off the front wheel and increases the wheelbase.
So... Will bikes get slacker? Hard to say. We feel that we have struck a good balance between HA, WB, FC, stem length...
Can you please help me find my lost bike? OK thanks.
A photocopy of my driver's license is rolled up inside the titanium Syncros handlebar. Sad sad sad.
am I right in thinking, that by having shorter chainstays, you effectively gain more ground clearance for a given BB height
and
how significantly does having the additional BB drop below the axles (as has become possible with the recent hoop hopping hassle (bigger wheels)) affect stability, both in cornering and descending
but your new processes look pretty spot on with the massive top tube lengths, (was close to buying a 153 but it was just out of my price range unfortunately)
How do you decide on the sizing for bikes at the extreme ends of the scale as it must be hard to get the bike still feeling good when you have to alter it so much from the size frame that you designed it around?
Also I'm working on my dissertation using solidworks at the moment, (composite engineering if you wanna know) how do you find the simulationexpress package in it for calculating stresses in bike applications?
Calculating stresses? Sorry no easy answer on that one, you have to go out and get that data yourself!
I have also heard rumors of a carbon entourage?
I bought a Honzo and quickly decided to sell it, for one reason: Why does it seem like most of the Kona hardtail line up don't offer much in the way of stand over clearance? The Small has 31" stand over, wtf mate?
Also A week ago I was looking at your site as I do almost daily, and there was a 4x ht listed under "Gravity" since that day it has been removed. What was I seeing?
Thanks, and like others have said, you guys sell the best bang-for-your-buck bikes of anyone out there. Thanks for that.
Further love the fact that the Operator 27.5 Large is massive (looooong reach), even larger than most XL sized DH bikes, so seriously considering one (I am 6'5").
PS SAE Baja is totally rad too.
I'm a proud owner of a suprême operator and I Just Want say "whaouuuuu what a bike !"
He is a real natural bike that's true, but why you don't provide natively an angle headset ajustment ?
is it to maximize pedal efficency?
When I see a bike with a 62 or 61° headangle and I'm told it that because of [insert 3 letter acronym of a "revolutionary system"],
it pedals just like any other bike, I get a bit sceptical.
btw, love your bikes.
Thanks for your time
Kona winds is a Hawaiian term for the stormy, rain-bearing winds that blow over the islands from the SW or SSW in the opposite direction of trade winds. The western, or leeward sides of the islands, then become windward in this case, as the predominant wind pattern is reversed.
Kona winds occur when a low-pressure center is within 500 miles Northwest of the Islands. Although strong Kona winds usually don’t last for more than a day or so.*
plan on bringing back any dirtjump bikes in the future?
whoadragon (same question here..............
[
Now my question is WHERE IS MY FREAKING BIKE!?!?!? Nobody in Knows when it is coming out again! Called kona headquarters at WA. They said they don't know when it is going to be available again. I emailed Joe and he responded that kona just finished a new production. Where is mine. I have not been riding for more than a month. Most Frustrating part is still nobody can give me an answer.
Matt
153s are starting to arrive from our factory this month. We will see a bunch more later this month. Hopefully most orders will be filled by April.
how can I get to know when it was produced?
It is not that weighs too much or anything like that vimeo.com/82097773
thnx for the replies to my off topic questions, konaworld!
Thanks
The presence in a city is solely dependent on the shops in the area. The shop I worked at a few years ago was a Kona dealer. At the time kona was not big in the city because no one pushed it. Kona hooked me up and i was flashing a Hei Hei and an operator around giving people test rides and suddenly Kona blew up again. If there isnt a dealer or a dealr pushing the line in your area its most likely why
I don't have the answer, that's why I asked the question
If that doesn't help, try here: northshorebillet.com
Hanger #25 looks eff all like mine though. Mine is like this: www.pinkbike.com/photo/2341571
And I did ring my local dealer and they said they wouldn't be able to get hold of one... Might try again and be a bit more pushy about it.
Ebay doesn't seem to have any hits ever either.
It is from the US though and at $87 without postage (damn!) you may want to see if you can locate one more locally, hopefully this info will help you find one cheaper but if not I suppose being able to ride again will help you forget the cost.
Turns out you only need to spend £19... sorted.
I think that he's question was meant to sound like this:
is there a HT frame in your line up which can be easily fit with the Large 160mm+ fork and used as a typical downhill machine.
As an advantage to reach riders, or as a misguide of info, for the untrained eye?
I thought the whole world rides with a camelbak system nowadays...
AlexRob nailed the hammer on the head with the waterbottle full of tools, etc. The added bonus of doing that is it will lower your center of gravity that much more!
Totally going to set up a spare-tube/levers/etc bottle for the cage, though. 27.5 tubes are bulky as *$&^!!!
That's Whistler.
Please ...please ...please
Not impossible, but not convincing.
Seriously though, this isn't a bad question considering the theme.
The giveaway would be on a Process fully rigged (XX1, XTR, Enve, Fox or RS'x, etc… Just put together the best build )
Make the contest on…
- the sickest edit (in themes…, 'like easter')
- the sweetest adventure/trip (with best documentation)
- the best build and designs
- the best graphic design, and the giveaway bike will come with the winning design
Just some ideas, but I'd be stoked for a giveaway on a fully rigged Process.
Cheers!
"Starting at 11:00 AM PST on February 19th you can type your questions into the comment box.."